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Or there's a trade ready to happen and he's trying to find his #2....  nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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I think that there's a 50/50 chance there is a trade in the works for Derek Anderson and the other part of the odds is Mangini just wants to drag things out another week and keep Minnesota in the dark as to who is the starter and this was the easiest way to do it (starting his boy Ratliff).
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Theres no advantage to the Vikes not knowing whos starting, if thats the reason we didnt start either QB, then we are in serious, serious, serious trouble with this regime.
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Theres no advantage to the Vikes not knowing whos starting, if thats the reason we didnt start either QB, then we are in serious, serious, serious trouble with this regime.
It may not be a huge advantage but to say there is absolutely is none, is just not correct, especially considering both QBs play two very different styles.
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I think it might make the other team waste a few minutes looking at film on both.. but I agree we are in big trouble if we need this deception to have an edge on the first team we face. What about the other 15 games ?
We always know Ben is starting, doesn't seem to help us one stinking bit. I say show your cards and beat em with talent.. Here's what we do, now try and stop us.
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The Vikes aren't gonna change anything defensively to stop DA vs. stopping Quinn, their play calling will change, that is all. Its not like one is Mike Vick, and the other is Drew Bledsoe.
It's far, far, far, far, more a disadvantage to our guy not getting #1 snaps, and not letting the team know who the leader of the offense is. If its all just coach speak to get attention away from it, fine. Maybe they are attempting to trade, I dunno, but the notion that not saying who the starter is an advantage is totally and completely false, its doing way more harm this far into the pre-season than good.
Pick a freaking QB, give him lots of time, and be done with it. Let him get all the #1 snaps and lets get the offense ready to dictate to other teams, who cares if they gameplan, we gotta be on top of our game.
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j/c
I want BQ to start, thats no secret... BUT we have to keep DA this season because our #3 and #4 are terrible. Bartel should be #3 but if you ship DA we're probably one play from Ratliff being our starter!
NO WAY do I want that to happen... NO WAY.
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I just hope that if Mangini starts DA our "fans" don't boo him.
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I deplore the fact that we have not named a starter...heck I ASSume M/K knew who their guy was at the beginning of TC and wanted him named for the entire Preseason.
But the only, only variable that is a positive would be an advantage to the first game....personally I don't think it justifies the disadvantages of a starting QB getting all the reps with the starters along with the added gel time with them.
But DA n BQ have different + n -
The Vikings would most definitely game plan differently for DA then they would for BQ and not being in our division we are not a familiarity. The only solace I have for not naming the starter at this point - is the fact that it does make a difference as the Vikings must game plan against both.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Outside of playing different coverages, are the Vikes really gonna change their defense upside down, where it takes lots of practice time away from them to prepare for both?
Even if it did, the Vikes arent stupid, a quick glance at pre-season film will show them who our starter is.
And even if the Vikes can't figure it out, it's still hurting our offense every practice that goes bye with 2 QB's taking #1 snaps, and to a lesser degree, the team not knowing who the general is.
I can't imagine they are really gonna trade someone, after Ratliff's pre-season performance we still need a backup QB. Right now I'm totally lost to why EM is putting the Browns offense at a disadvantage right now.
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I keep seeing this mentioned. How much of a differance is it really between our 2 QB's? It's not like one is a scrambler and the other is a pocket passer. The offense for the most part isn't going to change. We are still going to run the same plays for one guy that we would run for the other.
I don't see the big advantage to not announcing the starter.
Sure DA has a bigger arm and Quinn has more mobility but it isn't like Quinn is scrambling around a making huge plays with his feet that DA can't. Also while Quinn's arm isn't what DA's is he can still make all the throws needed to run the offense.
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Conversely, don't see any advantage or value in announcing it.
We were 4-12 last season and have won only ONCE on opening day in the last 10 Years.
Given that, I'll gladly take any extra advantage that we can muster. If this forces them to prepare for both QB's a little differently for even an hour - that's an hour that they aren't preparing for something else.... I'll take that in a heartbeat, because I have some pretty serious concerns about our defense's ability to keep their scoring down, which means our offense is going to have to be the one to carry the load.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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"Outside of playing different coverages"
yeah I know that would only be a 5 minute meeting in the classroom...lol 
Yes, different coverages.
Different Zone by the LBs
Teams play more in the Box on BQ asking the to beat them over top...
Teams Take away the top and ask DA to beat them underneath.
Just exactly how much time n effort these people put into GAME PLAN and preparation??? A lot....and they can't guess who will start so they must work on Both.
These teams put a lot of work into these game plans....and the "EXECUTION" of the plan is key to the game.
"the Vikes arent stupid, a quick glance at pre-season film will show them who our starter is."
Come on...they aren't going to gamble and put all their eggs in the basket. These guys are anal about every little thing. Got to cross all the "t's" and dot the "i's".
Note - I don't like the indecision one bit especially if its real. Hopefully the entire team KNOWS who the starter is and we will prepare that way with ONE QB at the helm and the naming of him will be on game day.
 but what I'm saying is don't take away THE ONLY PART OF THIS that actually makes Sense.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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"and have won only ONCE on opening day in the last 10 Years."
Seen only two games...First Monday nighter vs. Rams - Thanks Diam
and the 04 Opener...Thanks Paul Zuk
was a great day, well till after the game...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I deplore the fact that we have not named a starter...heck I ASSume M/K knew who their guy was at the beginning of TC and wanted him named for the entire Preseason.
But the only, only variable that is a positive would be an advantage to the first game....personally I don't think it justifies the disadvantages of a starting QB getting all the reps with the starters along with the added gel time with them.
Agree... Honestly this isn't the SB ..nor the playoffs..I doubt the Vikes care who is starting..if I'm the opposing DC, I wouldn't..I'd just prepare for both..
I also think Mangini should have named the starter and get on with it..oh wait , he probably did and the team just isn't leaking it out..
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I keep seeing this mentioned. How much of a differance is it really between our 2 QB's? It's not like one is a scrambler and the other is a pocket passer.
Actually, they are two VERY different QB's.
Anderson isn't going to be a moving-pocket QB. He won't do roll-outs and he won't do called scrambles. He isn't going to dink/dunk.
There IS an advantage to forcing the Vikes to plan for both because as much as we'd like to believe each QB is a total package, neither one is. Teams aren't going to blitz Anderson as much as Quinn because of his experience and his ability to get the ball downfield to single-coverages deep. If they do blitz, they'll know exactly where Anderson will be. Conversely, designing blitzes to get Quinn is much different, because moving him around presents it's own set of problems.
Having said all that, I don't agree with the ploy. Doing this for deceptive purposes does not outweigh the advantages of naming Quinn the QB and giving him as much experience and help as possible.
This entire Bill Bellyache way of life is stOOpid sometimes  Seriously, outside of Bellyache himself, how many of his protege's have become a bonifide successes?
Yeah, it's dumb sometimes, and if it doesn't work, Mangini has given the fans and the media plenty of ammunition to take their shots at him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Note - I don't like the indecision one bit especially if its real. Hopefully the entire team KNOWS who the starter is and we will prepare that way with ONE QB at the helm and the naming of him will be on game day.
This is my only real concern on the matter.
I think that whatever small advatage you might get by the Vikings not knowing is cancelled out by the fact your own team doesn't know. The team has also not gotten the proper time on the field to get used to the starter.
I'm not really one of the guys that is all over Mangini and looking for any reason I can to attack him. Thus far I'm very pleased with what I see. I just don't really see the advantage to the QB situation.
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I deplore the fact that we have not named a starter...heck I ASSume M/K knew who their guy was at the beginning of TC and wanted him named for the entire Preseason.
But the only, only variable that is a positive would be an advantage to the first game....personally I don't think it justifies the disadvantages of a starting QB getting all the reps with the starters along with the added gel time with them.
Agree... Honestly this isn't the SB ..nor the playoffs..I doubt the Vikes care who is starting..if I'm the opposing DC, I wouldn't..I'd just prepare for both..
I also think Mangini should have named the starter and get on with it..oh wait , he probably did and the team just isn't leaking it out..
Attack, I think this is most likely the answer. To sumarize Toad: the bellyache guys don't give out any info.
They didn't even disclose what we got with the last trade, you think that they'd go out of their way to show that they got something for a guy who was going to get cut anyway.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I think that whatever small advatage you might get by the Vikings not knowing is cancelled out by the fact your own team doesn't know. The team has also not gotten the proper time on the field to get used to the starter.
Yup, thats it in a nut shell, the small advantage we gain from not naming the starter, is nullified by the fact that Quinn isn't getting all his reps, which, ask any good QB, is invaluable. Especially for a QB that has very limited experience, and has several new receivers. I don't think EM has told the team anything, it would have leaked somehow.
My guess is we won't know until Sunday, around 12:30 who the guy is. And it better not be this "Quinn is the starter for week one" or "DA is the starter for week one" crap. Whoever is picked better get atleast 10-12 games.
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But the only, only variable that is a positive would be an advantage to the first game....
As Mike Golic said on Mike & Mike this morning.. the only way keeping this a secret becomes an advantage is if the Browns come out against the Vikes and start Cribbs... keeping the Quinn/Anderson thing a secret gives us ZERO benefit....
yebat' Putin
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you are not going to like Mangini's style then.....
going from Clayton's article on backup QBs....Belicheck would often sit Brady down for a practice and declare that he was "hurt" for the day so that the team could see how the backup QB (Cassel) and the team would react to it. He did this often.
You can see the same with Mangini how he rotates WRs, OL and yes, QB.
I don't think it is horrible that the starting QB splits rep's. This isn't college where you only get 20 hours a week (unless you are UM). This is the NFL where every waking minute is preparing for the next game. I guarantee you that Quinn/DA is watching the others reps and going through in their head exactly what they are seeing and would be doing.
Heck, it might even help to see things from the sideline and be able to soak everything in as a 3rd party for part of the time.
#gmstrong
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Maybe we will start Cribbs, after all, it would give us an advantage...because the Vikes won't have planned for it.
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you are not going to like Mangini's style then.....
going from Clayton's article on backup QBs....Belicheck would often sit Brady down for a practice and declare that he was "hurt" for the day so that the team could see how the backup QB (Cassel) and the team would react to it. He did this often.
You can see the same with Mangini how he rotates WRs, OL and yes, QB.
I don't think it is horrible that the starting QB splits rep's. This isn't college where you only get 20 hours a week (unless you are UM). This is the NFL where every waking minute is preparing for the next game. I guarantee you that Quinn/DA is watching the others reps and going through in their head exactly what they are seeing and would be doing.
Heck, it might even help to see things from the sideline and be able to soak everything in as a 3rd party for part of the time.
IF we had Tom Brady, then I really wouldn't be concerned about the lost reps. Your comparing Tom Brady sitting out a practice or even whole week, your comparing him not getting his practice time to DA or BQ...
We don't have an experienced and good QB to hang our hats on, which is why our QB's need those reps. Unlike a hall of famer like Tom Brady. The sooner these ex-pat coaches realize they aren't Billiam, nor do they have his personnel, maybe one of them will actually pan out.
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no, i think the '1st string QB getting 100% of the reps' thing is overblown.
i think it makes sense to prepare both QBs...i think it should still be a 75/25 split at least during the season...you are always one play away from the other guy getting in there.
and i'll bet Belicheck did it with Kosar and Vinny....did it with Bledsoe and Brady. the team always has to be prepared to lose any piece and keep on moving forward.
#gmstrong
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keeping the Quinn/Anderson thing a secret gives us ZERO benefit....
i didn't think so either until i looked back to the broncos game last season. they prepared for DA by dropping into zones and taking away the intermediate to deep routes. quinn started but the bronocos were forced to stay with that plan because they prepared for DA and we know how quinn performed in that situation. it helps that they don't know who to prepare for but many of us choose to deny it because it's emotionally frustrating.
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i didn't think so either until i looked back to the broncos game last season. they prepared for DA by dropping into zones and taking away the intermediate to deep routes. quinn started but the bronocos were forced to stay with that plan because they prepared for DA and we know how quinn performed in that situation.
Help me out here Dong... the Browns and Broncos both played on Sunday, on Monday the Browns announced that BQ would be starting, the Broncos game was on Thursday.. Why exactly did the Broncos spend the week preparing for DA? I understand they had minimal tape to use to prepare for BQ, but they knew all week that DA wasn't starting.... just curious.
yebat' Putin
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Maybe that is what got shanahan fired lol
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I deplore the fact that we have not named a starter
Maybe he has and is just not telling anyone but the team. I think that would be a really smart move. I hope this is the case
Joe Thomas #73
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i couldn't justify that either. it makes no sense. i guess they thought that the offense would remain the same even with a different qb?
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Maybe that is what got shanahan fired lol
Thank You for that laugh out loud. 
I think that EM isn't sure what he wants to do, the whole "they have to prepare for both" thing is just to give reason to his indecision. DA looks like a hall of famer in practice, he has all the physical tools, EM, like most coaches gets sucked into that.
Quinn has outplayed him this pre-season, but I'd be willing to bet that in practice, DA looks like the best QB ever, and Quinn is average. EM can't decide what he wants to do, and he can't say that, so this who ordeal is a nice out.
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I think that EM isn't sure what he wants to do, the whole "they have to prepare for both" thing is just to give reason to his indecision.
Were you able to type that with a straight face?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I was thinking the same thing. But I also think that if all the players knew who the starter was, then it definitely would have been leaked. I think Mangini and the coaches know is going to start and the players don't. Who knows, maybe we are shopping one of them (Quinn and Anderson) and we don't want the teams interested to know who is starting (although it would easy to assume the guy being talked about in a trade isn't starting.) All signs do point to Brady Quinn though... Quote:
Who do you think will get the QB job in cleveland and who will he throw it to besides Braylon Edwards?
That job has to go to Quinn and honestly, I think Mangini needs to announce it pronto. In fact, he should have done it a while ago. The regular season starts a week from tomorrow! How awesome is that by the way? As for receivers, they really don't have them. Robiskie and Massaquoi should both develop-slowly. And neither has #1 ability. The TEs are just a bunch of guys. That being said, I do think Edwards could have a much better year than he did in 2008-but that isn't saying much.
ESPN.com Adam Schefter...says Quinn will be starter.
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Just from the highlights, Brady Quinn looked less frenetic than he did a year ago against Tennessee on Saturday. My money's on Quinn over Derek Anderson to start opening day.
SI.com Peter King
Those are just a few examples of people thinking Quinn will start of Anderson. And to be honest, I haven't seen one article/TV show/chat or whatever say Anderson will start.
Usually we use this saying more around draft time, but I also think it is appropriate for now, "Where there is smoke there is fire." I would know best, my whole city is on fire right now.
Last edited by Referee2; 09/05/09 06:16 AM.
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I think that EM isn't sure what he wants to do, the whole "they have to prepare for both" thing is just to give reason to his indecision.
Were you able to type that with a straight face?
i know i couldn't read it with a straight face.
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i wouldn't put stock in national talking heads. that said, i think many things come into consideration. (in the end i still think the job goes to quinn)
1) how performed best in practice?
2) who performed best in preseason?
3) if deemed even, who has what trade value?
4) if deemed even, does EM and Kok care about quinn's escalators?
5) if deemed even, who does the public support more?
if the two are even in mangini's eyes, and that's a huge "if," i have to think 3 and 4 play a huge role in this whole thing. i think this "process" is us waiting to see if anyone knocks on our doors. if no one does, or if no reasonable offer is made that makes them think, then they go with quinn easily. if there's a good offer, they'll have to weigh everything.
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I was thinking the same thing.
But I also think that if all the players knew who the starter was, then it definitely would have been leaked.
I think Mangini and the coaches know is going to start and the players don't.
Who knows, maybe we are shopping one of them (Quinn and Anderson) and we don't want the teams interested to know who is starting (although it would easy to assume the guy being talked about in a trade isn't starting.)
All signs do point to Brady Quinn though...
If the team knew, comon, we would know. That whole thing is just another excuse for EM not coming out and saying who the guy. This isn't some grand scheme to fool the Vikes. Em hasnt made the call. Even as obvious as the choice is.
And to think that its because we are trying to fool the Vikes into to preparing for the wrong guy, because if the Vikes prepare for DA and we start Quinn, it will make such a HUGE difference, then EM is a total moron, because it isn't gonna make a pile of beans difference if they prepare for one, or the other or both.
We will have to execute, and dictate to them, which means our QB being on top of his game and have his timing down. Not pinning our hopes on the other team preparing for the wrong QB.
This isn't Bill Mastermind move, its indecision, and people trying to find an excuse for that. EM hasn't made up his mind, end of story.
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If what you are saying were true then we would have seen both guys play last night. The fact they both sat means that the decision has been made.
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If you think that not knowing who the starting QB will be won't affect the Vikings then you are plain wrong. If Anderson starts the Vikings have to plan for more deep balls. If Quinn starts, it will be more of a short passing attack. If Anderson starts he will mostly just drop back and pass. If Quinn starts there will be more roll outs and screens.
But I do agree with you, the reason Mangini hasn't made the decision isn't because he wants to fool the Vikings. It's because he doesn't know. Also, like I said before, if the players know who the starter is, we would know. Because as of right now, there would be eighty guys and dozens of coaches who knew of the decision and at all it would take is one guy to call Schefter, or Mortensen, or Glazer, or King or whoever and tell them who is starting.
I think we will all find out who the starter is after the roster cuts down to 53 on Saturday night.
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PFT reporting that the Patriots have released Andrew Walter, and WEEI out of Boston is reporting that the Patriots are interested in one of our QB's. Speculate as you may but its interesting.
All rumor mill - but if you run with it, my guess would be Bartel. There is no way they could get Quinn, and I would be shocked if they wanted Anderson as a backup to Brady. That leaves Bartel as I don't think anyone would want Ratliff.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He sincerly typed it hoping that it's true..anyone who has some descernment should gather that Eric knows full well who is the starter..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who's in the market for a QB part
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