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My command of the english language maybe isn't good enough to get this idea across exactly the way I envision it. Please bear with me if it takes a few posts. Basically though we create a way for multiple entities to pool money and approach insurance companies for better rates. For example, Me, Arch, Daman, and several other companies belong to an organization that approaches insurance companies for good rates. A larger number of people buying coverage will get better rates than any of us buying individually. If that's about as clear as a puddle of mud right now, I'll do my best to clear it up. If I can, even in my head this idea is a work in progress.
I'm grateful for Browns football.
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It's pretty much already done. I know I can get a "group" rate through the American Massage Therapy Association.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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It's pretty much already done. I know I can get a "group" rate through the American Massage Therapy Association.
That's what I was thinking too,...now a group that had a "lot" of muscle and buying power might be able to get a 'better' rate, but insurance companies and greed are just not going to dry up and blow away tomorrow. This problem is huge.
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I'll admit to being ignorant of that fact. I would like to see the umbrella broadened though. Your association has X number of members, and it joins with another association with Y number of members. If those two associations approach an insurance company wanting better rates than they get individually, I think they'll get it. I'm thinking more along the lines of people that don't have it, or access to an association that has negotiated a group rate though. If a large group of people with no insurance approach insurance company willing to pay, but at a good price, greed says the uninsured will get what they want. It seems that simple to me at least.
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Here's maybe a hair brained idea. The main page claims 90,929 people are Browns Backers, what kind of rates would that many people get? I don't know how those numbers compare to the association Michelle mentioned, but if that many diverse people could somehow negotiate with insurance companies, think of the possiblilties. I don't want "free" government healthcare, but I would like everyone to be able to pay for it.
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I don't want "free" government healthcare, but I would like everyone to be able to pay for it.
In able to pay for it, you have to have a job and be willing to pay for it. The problem lies with alot of people want another government freebie.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Those people can go fly a kite. I could care less about someone unwilling to help themself.
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Legend
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I've said many times -- the big problem doesn't lie so much with people who don't have health care, but rather with those who do and get screwed in the name of a buck.
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Those people can go fly a kite. I could care less about someone unwilling to help themself.
Bingo! Now you understand what so many have been trying to convey. That is exactly the point.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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I've always understood that point.
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Legend
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jc
The problem lies in that the insurance companies are supplying a product for profit, and don;t give a rats ass about you or your health.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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The main page claims 90,929 people are Browns Backers, what kind of rates would that many people get?
Well, when you figure that probably 70% of those people already have insurance and aren't going to leave their company insurance, the number gets a lot smaller... but for the sake of argument, let's say the final number is 20,000 people willing to pay for insurance through the Browns Backers Group.. the problem then becomes that you would need somebody (or a small group of people) to administer an insurance set up for 20,000 people... who is going to pay those 3 or 4 or 5 or more people? The 20,000 people would have to pay them through some kind of an annual dues set up. I work for a company of less than 300 people and we have a full time benefits coordinator who gets help from a couple other people... surely a group of 20,000 is going to need a small team to coordinate and manage that insurance... Who is going to negotiate with the insurers? Who is going to sign people up and cross them off if they leave? Who is going to assist with handling complaints? More people will get you better rates but more people will require more admin... and somebody has to pay for it.
yebat' Putin
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and another bureaucracy is born.
“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.” -AOC
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Good points, and it would take lots of ironing to get the wrinkles out. I'm just thinking out loud about ways to keep "free" government health care from happening. I'm now one of the uninsured, but I don't want free insurance.
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KY, that's a good thought, but picture if groups weren't involved at all. What if it were like auto insurance. They compete for numbers by offering the best deal to each individual. Take away the group buying power that employers have, put it in the hands of the consumer, and you could change the dynamic literal over night.
If companys started giving vouchers (chose the term that best suits you, but basically checks that could only be spent on health care insurance) rather than buying the policies, it would instantly change to fit that model. Insurance companies would instantly come up with policies that fit those amounts and actively compete with better service promises.
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It seems like with your model, everyone would have to give up the insurance they have and say make me offers. That's a lot to lose, in hopes that companies will play by those rules. Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't understand your angle on this. I would like to though. I don't care how I get lower premiums, as long as I get them.
I'm grateful for Browns football.
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Why aren't all the customer with an insurance company, already considered a group?
Does it matter if I'm with the AARP or the MMA or the YMCA? People are people, no matter what group they are with, so why do I have to join a group to get a better rate?
I'm a non-smoker, social drinker, and work out 3-4 times a week. Why am I stuck in this group at work where most of the people smoke, drink and never work out? Doesn't that mean I'm probably paying higher premiums because the majority of my group aren't as health conscious as I am?
I should be able to sign up for insurance, and be rated based on me as an individual.
I don't pay more for my car insurance because my coworkers have speeding tickets and accidents.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
I'm just thinking out loud about ways to keep "free" government health care from happening.
And I respect any out-of-the-box idea that you can come up with to prevent that from happening. So I'm not bashing you for having an idea, just trying to help you iron out those details and identifying obstacles that you will face.
yebat' Putin
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It seems like with your model, everyone would have to give up the insurance they have and say make me offers. That's a lot to lose, in hopes that companies will play by those rules.
That is the case... but is there a huge crisis in the auto insurance industry? Are rates skyrocketing? Is coverage going down? I don't believe so. In fact car insurance companies have come up with such things as "accident forgiveness" and better rates for insuring your car and home with the same company, Progressive now has a "name your price" plan where you tell them how much you can afford to spend on auto insurance and they create a policy that you can afford... do you have ANY of those options with your health insurance? Especially if you are part of a group plan? No, you have very very few choices. You take what your employer negotiates and you live with it.
yebat' Putin
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Me, Arch, Daman, and several other companies belong to an organization that approaches insurance companies for good rates. A larger number of people buying coverage will get better rates than any of us buying individually.
I belong to the Aurora Chamber of Commerce.. with that membership in hand, I get a 10% discount but not true "group" rates. That's as close as I've found to any kinda group I can join. The Cleveland Chamber, which is much much larger of an organizaton but is basically the same,,
The other alternative is to payroll yourself through something called a PEO or Private Employer Organization. Smaller companies have used this type of an organization to leverage buying power.
They are essentially a payrolling service and act as a "co-employer" to your employees. They add your employees into the overall with other employers employees and if done right, can be quite substantial. But to get any real value, the group has to be rather large.
I did that for a while, my costs were upwards of $1050.00 per month through the PEO I used and when I joined them, they had about 80 employees.
If you remember, that was the company that went belly up, took my premiums and didn't pay AETNA.. thus I lost my insurance which got me where I am today..
I tend to not like that type of an organization. And lately, I'm seeing them go by the wayside due to the economy in general.
that's why I keep saying,, I'm not completely opposed to a public option, but my real hope is that someone gets smart and allows small businesses to group together to do basically what you want.
The trouble is, they (insurance companies) really don't allow that today. Not in the simple form you propose.. It is being done, it can be done, but it's complicated, sometimes the rules make it impossible to accomplish.
And a possible explaination is that insurance companies are aware they will have to get your business anyway, so to allow for these groups generally allows for lower rates and that translates to lower revenue, lower profits, and possible bigger payouts. (not sure of that last part,, just a guess)
But honestly, I love the idea of what you propose. If the Federal governement can act as a central player and allows small business owners to band together for the express purposes of obtaining better rates for insurance, that would be wonderful..
What I'm afraid of is that one side is trying to hard to complicate things and the other side is absorbed with trying to disrupt any effort to fix the problem.
I'm convinced we are governed by a bunch of complete idiots. JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What I'm afraid of is that one side is trying to hard to complicate things and the other side is absorbed with trying to disrupt any effort to fix the problem.
As a conservative, I assume I'm in the second group?  I look at it this way... if you are driving on a steep mountain road and blow out a tire and start heading for the cliff... first you avoid the cliff, then once you are under control and stopped, you try to fix the tire. Right now I'm fighting to stop healthcare from going over the cliff.. once we do that, then I'll become more absorbed in trying to fix the problem. 
yebat' Putin
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Right now I'm fighting to stop healthcare from going over the cliff..
Being a conservative myself ( I know you don't believe me because I'm a more liberal minded type and I know that doesn't set well with those that sit right of me) But I feel as if health care started it's trek over the cliff in the 70's and for the second time in the last 40 years, someone is actually trying to do something..
is it the right thing? Hell if I know, I've not seen the final bill, I don't know what the particulars are (and no, I don't like listening to those that try to spin either side).
What I do know, is that there is, once again, action on the subject and it's long over due. however, I fear that this fight will result in the same ole same ole..
I thought back to all the campaigns I've been familiar with. essentially starting with Nixons second term.(and Fords attempt at election) In every case except Nixon, health care was a serious topic of discussion..(it may have been the same in Nixons second campaign in 72, I just don't remember it)
Carter promised to work on it, and he did nothing... so did Reagan during his campaigns.. Reagan did nothing after he won, George Bush and Ducacus (sp) both ran for president,, both talked up Healthcare reform.. Bush won, and did nothing to even try to bring about change.
Then it was Bush going for another 4 years against Clinton.. again, both talked of a reform plan,, Clinton won, put his wife in charge of it, it got shot down with the SAME tactics being used today., Remember the TV Ad with the couple talking about what the Clinton plan was going to do to thier healthcare costs? Damn near the same thing that's going on today..
And guess what,, nothing happened again. it had to be abandoned once more.. So Bush and Gore go at it,, both talk of Health care reform,, Bush wins,,, Guess what? Bubkis again. not even anything close to a real attempt to address the problem. (I'll admit, he had other, more pressing issues on his plate, but once under control, he could have attempted to work on it, and he didn't)
Here we are again,, McCain and Obama go at it, even before that, Obama and his nearest democratic opponent were taking health care reform. McCain and his rivals for the Republican nomination talked of it also. Obama wins, puts forth the idea again, and it's the mid nineties all over again.,, and now we have what we have. more of the same.
The time to fix it is way past it's prime.. it's already well on it's way down the side of the cliff..
I really wish that Republicans would step into this,, privately, behind closed doors, put pressure on Democrats to have a more balanced plan.. But, I'm afraid, we've headed down the same path again. Squabbling, fighting, innuendo, lies, deceit... all the same, from both sides. in the end, I think it will fail again.
And once again, I'll say it, we are governed by idiots.. what makes that worse is, we are responsible for them being in office..
man, I'm having a bad day today.. I guess I'm just weary of all the bull.. the politicians need to get serious.. about fixing the problem..,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In every case except Nixon, health care was a serious topic of discussion..(it may have been the same in Nixons second campaign in 72, I just don't remember it)
Not to be snide...but brush up on your history.
Nixon shaped American health care as we know it.
Here's a private meeting Nixon had just before putting us where we are. This clip is beyond damning when it comes to explaining why our health care system is so flawed....
http://www.youtube.com/v/RmHTte8jRLk
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I actually had Kaiser for a while when I lived in DC back in the early to mid 90s and it wasn't bad coverage.
yebat' Putin
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I had it for a few years, and it was relatively headache free.
Then again, I've heard horror stories as well.
But Kaiser and the Nixon administration were - for the most part - the architects of what we have today as far as health care in America.
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From what I remember, Kaiser was set up to be much more efficient than other healthcare providers... for lack of a better analogy, it used some "assembly line" ideas. I know that sounds cold but I don't remember it being like that. I just remember being able to get in and get out quicky and efficiently.... Now I never had any serious health problems at the time so I can't speak to how it worked if you needed more intense treatment or surgery.
yebat' Putin
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Not to be snide...but brush up on your history.
Phil, go back and read what I said,, I said that it may have been talked about in Nixons time, but I just didn't remember it.
And our current system is not one that is flattering to its shapers.. they missed a few things.. but then, nobody has a perfect crystal ball I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Now I never had any serious health problems at the time so I can't speak to how it worked if you needed more intense treatment or surgery.
Those are generally the ones that get you.
I had a surgery awhile back to repair a shattered bone...most of it got covered and taken care of (except for all of the nonsense where the hospital double bills you just to see if you'll pay it)....turns out the hospital's anesthesiologist wasn't covered under my plan.  Everything was covered but that guy.
As if I was supposed to sit there in my gown with my ass hanging out, while being shuttled to 10 different people and say 'Wait, before you put me under, are you covered under my insurance plan?'
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Legend
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Phil had a crystal ball but the government took it and gave it to a big corporation. 
yebat' Putin
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Phil had a crystal ball but the government took it and gave it to a big corporation.
Gave it to the frickin' Saudis. 
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And our current system is not one that is flattering to its shapers.. they missed a few things.. but then, nobody has a perfect crystal ball I guess.
I don't think one needs a crystal ball to see that "we'll provide less medical care, which results in more profits" isn't such a hot idea.
And I meant when I said I didn't mean to be snide...don't take it as an insult.
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I hope this attempt does get shouted down. Unless it becomes a simple law that allows something like I have proposed, or the co-op options that have been proposed. Even if it means my family continues to not have insurance, I don't want the Feds having anything to do with administering health care.
I'm grateful for Browns football.
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I don't want the Feds having anything to do with administering health care.
Agreed.
I also don't want the insurance companies having anything to do with administering health care.
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Double bills, a bill without itemized charges or explanaitions, my wife lives to search them out and ram them down the hospital or insurance companies throats! Holy cow she scours these things and calls on every bill! She point to the insurance companies that they double paid and got hosed, she calls the hospital telling them they did it. She demands a better written, itemized bill most every time. She's insane about this stuff!
I had a micro discectomy last Wednesday...I'm surprised they didn't look and see my last name and toss me out of the hospital onto the seat of my pants!
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Sounds like you got a good woman,...!!
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Double bills, a bill without itemized charges or explanaitions, my wife lives to search them out and ram them down the hospital or insurance companies throats! Holy cow she scours these things and calls on every bill! She point to the insurance companies that they double paid and got hosed, she calls the hospital telling them they did it. She demands a better written, itemized bill most every time. She's insane about this stuff!
Good for her. It's an entirely ridiculous practice, and so many folks have no idea it's going on.
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Can I have my bills sent to her? I hate doing that stuff.
yebat' Putin
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Can I have my bills sent to her? I hate doing that stuff.
Now there's a thought...she can start a service!
She'd be in heaven!
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She could. She can have 40% of every dime she saves me.
yebat' Putin
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She could. She can have 40% of every dime she saves me.
I think it was when Aetna covered us 10 years back or so that they would send you a check for 25 dollars or so if you found billing mistakes and it was adjusted. I think they put her on the payroll!
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