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Quote:
Not specifically, it is just my frustration with the name calling these days...
it is impossible to have rational discussions when irrational behavior is involved.
Definitely....i think that was the point I was trying to make. That we're nowhere close to the epic slides (Russia, Iran, Germany) into totalitarianism that people have mentioned. In fact the mechanism that would cause this slide, has never caused a slide of that magnitude in history (as far as I can remember, though I am very likely to be missing something)
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Legend
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I would disagree.
I think we're heading right towards those aforementioned slides.
I think most of the people are nutty in their misguided interpretations, though.
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Quote:
I would disagree.
I think we're heading right towards those aforementioned slides.
I think most of the people are nutty in their misguided interpretations, though.
How exactly are we going to turn into Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, or North Korea through health care, environmental, and economic stimulus reforms?
I understand an argument that 20 years down the road we might be more socialist like a france/germany/uk.....i think that's a reasonable argument.....
but there's no historical evidence, or current rationale for why we would suddenly lose all pretense of democracy and freedom
~Lyuokdea
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 09/05/09 03:54 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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When are people going to admit politicians are parasites?
Republicans, Democrats, Whigs, Federalists, Confederalists, Libertarian Party, Greens, Constitutionalists, Bull-Moose, National Socialists
All of these are people who rely on taking money at the point of a gun.
Who gives a flying frank what they spend it on. They are ROBBING YOU.
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Quote:
When are people going to admit politicians are parasites?
Republicans, Democrats, Whigs, Federalists, Confederalists, Libertarian Party, Greens, Constitutionalists, Bull-Moose, National Socialists
All of these are people who rely on taking money at the point of a gun.
Who gives a flying frank what they spend it on. They are ROBBING YOU.
So the only alternative is anarchy? That sounds extreme
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Dawg Talker
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Anarchy is the logical conclusion if you believe violence is immoral.
Most people are against arranged marriages and shotgun weddings.
Same goes for slavery.
Its scary that you may end up lonely or unemployed, but only through the ability to choose do we get quality and freedom.
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Anarchy is the logical conclusion if you believe violence is immoral.
Three separate points:
1.) First many would argue (not me), that a failure to assist (protect positive rights) is in and of itself a form of violence. And thus, while anarchy prevents the state from abusing negative rights, it enforces the ignorance of positive rights (just as bad).
2.) On consequential grounds (again not me), the argument against anarchy is clear. While it prohibits the legitimate use of violence by the government against the masses, human nature means the eventual result is almost certainly a society of total violence (i.e. strong survive).
3.) My argument is that "no government violence mandates anarchy" is not necessarily true. The clear advantages for collective protection will drive people towards collectivist societies without the need for violence. Thus, while this current governmental system is inherently violent, a non-violent governmental system could be established which operates via voluntary participation of the masses (which due to the massive threat of external violence against those not-participating), would be joined voluntarily, and thus would be non-violent.
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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I entirely agree Lyuokdea. Absolutely brilliant points.
Have you studied Anarchy or Political Science?
edit: moved to PM
Last edited by Kingcob; 09/05/09 05:55 PM.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
How exactly are we going to turn into Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, or North Korea through health care, environmental, and economic stimulus reforms?
Those are the button issues they want us to quibble over...although I would cite the 'economic stimulus reforms' as a big part of the problem...it's essentially gussied up fascism...they just handed a ton of made-up money that the people are responsible for to private corporations who have no responsibilities as far as America's best interests.
I'm not advocating the dumb-dumbs out there who are screaming about socialism or Nazi Germany...but we are going downhill. We're on a fast track to falling like Rome.
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but there's no historical evidence, or current rationale for why we would suddenly lose all pretense of democracy and freedom
We've been forking it over bit by bit for quite some time.
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Legend
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Legend
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So, we're both intelligent. And we both know what your real "point" was. You didn't like that I disagreed with your assessment of Glenn Beck, and since I said that I hate his theater, you decided to attack me for not analysing the facts of his case.
Hey, I'm back from vacation. Oh, and you're wrong. I don't care if you agree with Beck or not.
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Then, when I responded in great detail (which you either weren't ready or able to respond to). You decided to shift your attack in the opposite direction. "I am correct because you give too many facts" (which is a ridiculous argument in and of itself).
No, my original point was that you take things too seriously.
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Then when I call you out on your shifting positions...you disappear, because you have no response. Instead retreat to the "how can you be so dumb to not understand that I am right" stance (the exact quote was "If you don't get it, sorry about you being out of it.")...and refuse to comment further.
When draftdayz and I both call you out again, you disappear. Instead finally answering me on a PM, because you don't want the board to read your mea culpa.
I'm sure you have put more research into this than I have, but I don't spend ALL of my time here - alot, yes, but not all. I also sleep, and work. Sorry for my absences. For you to insinuate that I couldn't reply due to having nothing to say is, well, wrong.
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The whole problem with this in the first place, was that you decided to lead off with a snarky comment "But it hasn't stopped you from having an opinion, has it?",
Which, if you look back, was a reply to you having an opinion on something you admitted you knew nothing about. If that's "snarky" in your view, well, ok.
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and that lead on to a personal attack on me that came from every angle you could think of simultaneously.
Dude, "...personal attack on you from every angle I could think of..."?
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...As soon as you get confronted by anybody, you back off your arguments, and try to twist out of what you said in the first place, because it's hard to be the snide bully when people are pushing back.
Interesting. Wrong. But interesting. Perhaps you should ask around. I do believe most would say I don't back down, or twist away from my argument. Perhaps I'm wrong.
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Oh and I almost forgot your one other interesting post:
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Oops, forgot:
Archbolddawg.
Which, since you never sign posts, is clearly an joke about me (one of the very few people on here that do).....very mature.
I just started.
Arch.
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