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Should be DA. Will be Quinn.
Care to explain that position?
you had a good run Hank.
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Now defenses know as long as they can stop the run with the front 7 and keep there safties back vs. the long stuff, they got him.
And that what makes the difference between he and Quinn. With Anderson you take away the run and the long ball. With Quinn you're going to have to take away the run and everything from 20 yards in. And I don't think that can be done effectively.
Besides, regardless of what the media has said, and so many on here have believed, there's nothing wrong with Quinn's long ball. He's likely not going to throw 40 yard ropes like DA but he can surely throw deep. If you compare every QB's long ball to DA's most are going to fall short in that category. But Quinn can make all the throws which means you have to take away the run, everything 20 yards in and the deep ball. I know that can't be done. You try all that and there's going to be one-on-one matchups all over the field.
#gmstrong
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"Quinn has an excellent chance to be selected in the first round--many still have him pegged for the top 10"
"TWO scouts who cover Notre Dame for NFL teams believe Quinn should be a third- or fourth-round pick."
ok many > two
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Sorry bud, I dont think one article is grounds for us to bench Quinn and start DA 
#brownsgoodkarma
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The Sporting News had him as a 3rd round talent.
Can you link to that? It seems so easy just to type it or anything else you want.
Yes sir. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2007-02-11/scouts-have-harsh-criticism-quinn
Sporting News is notorious for moving players up or down based upon their opinion. It makes for an interesting read, that will not follow the other draft resouces, but is not a consensus view of the draft.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Should be DA. Will be Quinn.
Care to explain that position?
I think that DA gives us a better chance to win now. I'm not expecting much from us this season, but I do think that we'll win more games with DA under center than Quinn.
I was never very impressed with Quinn at Notre Dame, nor did he wow me in his limited NFL action. On the same note, DA has never really swept me off my feet. I was always very squeamish about him, even during '07.
I happen to think we have two mediocre QB's who won't excel unless all of the pieces around them are clicking...as of today, I think DA gives us a better chance to win ball games in the immediate...of course, that could change with Quinn getting some experience under his belt...but I'd rather set some tone and win 5-7 this year. DA is the better option in that regard.
Unless Mangini and Kokinis put together a formidable squad very swiftly, I doubt either guy will be in town in 2-3 years.
And on a non-objective level, I don't like Quinn. From my experiences, he's a punk.
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I can't hear you over your sig.
DA's eyes in that sig make him look like deer staring into headlights..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Sorry bud, I dont think one article is grounds for us to bench Quinn and start DA
Not trying to say that...I said that Quinn was viewed as a 3rd round talent by some in a previous post and I was asked to provide a link.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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"Quinn has an excellent chance to be selected in the first round--many still have him pegged for the top 10"
"TWO scouts who cover Notre Dame for NFL teams believe Quinn should be a third- or fourth-round pick."
ok many > two
Yes, but those two scouts specifically covered Notre Dame football.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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All Pro
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that sig also represents the actual game speed of lewis.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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that sig also represents the actual game speed of lewis.
hahaha
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Not biased, just being a realist. Quinn is going to develop into just another one of Savage's bust draft selections. I hope Quinn starts so he can go up against legit defenses in the first 5 weeks. IMO he is going to be eaten alive by the likes of Minn, Pitt, and Baltimore. This is the problem with some Browns fans, they are so anxious for Brady Quinn to be the savior, that they can't see clearly what exactly is in front of them. I am not biased, those of you who hate on DA and are in love with Quinn just because he is "supposed to be the savior" are the ones that are biased. If it weren't for Opie trading up to get him, he would have fell to the second round easy. The Sporting News had him as a 3rd round talent. He failed time and time again at ND in big games in wins and losses and individual statistics. The guy is all fluff. I don't hate Brady Quinn, I hate the people that are already in love with him and ready to give him the job just because he is Brady Quinn.
DA is only 26, a little over a year older then Brady, and look what he has already accomplished. He has not come anywhere near his potential. Pro Bowl first year starting, bad year last year, but you cannot put last year on him. This is his 3rd full season starting. If he is going to be legit, this is his year to prove it. Everyone says "lets see what Brady can do, we don't know what we have." Well I don't think we know what we have in DA either, how about we give him a shot. He has actually earned it, and he deserves it.
This is just sickening. I don't know where to begin. You better root for an injury to Quinn, because Anderson the pouter is gonna be glued to the bench where he belongs.
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Now defenses know as long as they can stop the run with the front 7 and keep there safties back vs. the long stuff, they got him.
And that what makes the difference between he and Quinn. With Anderson you take away the run and the long ball. With Quinn you're going to have to take away the run and everything from 20 yards in. And I don't think that can be done effectively.
Besides, regardless of what the media has said, and so many on here have believed, there's nothing wrong with Quinn's long ball. He's likely not going to throw 40 yard ropes like DA but he can surely throw deep. If you compare every QB's long ball to DA's most are going to fall short in that category. But Quinn can make all the throws which means you have to take away the run, everything 20 yards in and the deep ball. I know that can't be done. You try all that and there's going to be one-on-one matchups all over the field.
I agree, Saying DA has a cannon attached to his shoulder doesn't mean BQ cant make every NFL throw. How many times does an NFL quarterback need to be able to launch a ball 70 yards in the air per game? Conversly how often does a accurate pass to a RB out of the backfield or shallow crossing route in stride translate into a first down?
I did notice that Ogdawg wouldn't touch a factual post though.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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I did notice that Ogdawg wouldn't touch a factual post though.
What do you want me to say?
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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This is just sickening. I don't know where to begin. You better root for an injury to Quinn
What the fuzzzz? I am not going to root for injury to anyone. Anyone who does that isn't a Browns fan.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I did notice that Ogdawg wouldn't touch a factual post though.
What do you want me to say?
last post page 3, instead of talking about opinions, reinforce your arguement with hard facts, numbers if you will.
Last edited by ibleedorange; 09/08/09 01:46 AM.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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PD Quote:
Since the Cleveland Browns won't talk about the quarterbacks, Terry Pluto will
by Terry Pluto,Plain Dealer Columnist
Monday September 07, 2009, 11:10 PM
Talking to myself about the Browns not talking about quarterbacks . . .
Who is the Browns' starting quarterback?
It's Brady Quinn.
Really?
OK, I don't know that. I just think it will be Quinn. Way back in minicamps, Quinn had the edge, according to Eric Mangini. After that, the coach declared them even. But he started Quinn in Game 1 and Game 3 of the preseason. It seemed clear Quinn was ahead, and he did nothing to lose. But that's my estimation. Mangini isn't saying anything, other than he's picked a guy.
Why not just say it?
When it comes to quarterbacks, he doesn't care what the fans think. He doesn't care what the media says, or even if he looks stubborn during what he calls "the process." He has said almost from his first press conference that when he was the opposing defensive coordinator, he hated not knowing for sure who would be the opposing quarterback. So he's not talking.
Don't you think the name of the starter will come out long before the game?
Yes.
Doesn't Mangini know that an agent, a player or a friend will find out after Mangini delivers the news to Anderson and Quinn? And won't that person tell someone, who will tell someone?
Yes.
But he still plans to keep it a secret?
Yes.
Doesn't that seem a bit silly?
Yes.
Do you think it really scares Minnesota having to prepare for both Derek Anderson and Quinn?
The Browns think if the Vikings coaches and players even waste a few hours preparing for the wrong quarterback, it's worth it.
Do you really believe that?
No.
Doesn't all this really bug you?
Not really. Despite what some fans and media people may think, Mangini is not an idiot. He is not the Prince of Darkness. He has not come to town to ruin the football team -- a team that has been 4-12 in three of the past five years. He has brought some discipline and order to practices, and I like that.
So what does bother you about the Browns?
They have to figure out how to run the ball. I want the line to open some holes and protect the quarterback. Minnesota has a dominant defense that can control of line of scrimmage. That doesn't change, no matter who starts at quarterback.
You don't think it matters who starts?
Of course it matters. But Mangini knows what it takes to prepare a quarterback to start. I'm sure that the starting QB has been working with the starters a lot in practice. Besides, if the Browns' offense looks disorganized against Minnesota, then the finger of blame should be pointed directly at the coaches.
So you think it's Quinn?
I started to write it's "a gut feeling," but Butch Davis ruined that phrase forever during his days as coach of the Browns. Maybe it's because I think Quinn matches the ball-control offense the Browns seem to want to use. Or maybe it's because after being with the Browns for more than two years, I want to see what kind of quarterback they have in Quinn.
You don't know that Quinn will start?
I'm tired of talking about what I don't know about the quarterbacks. I want to talk about how the Browns need to get Rex Hadnot healthy and playing somewhere on the line. I want to talk about how they need to create a package with Jamal Lewis and James Davis. I want screen passes. I want to see an offense that sometimes uses a no-huddle, and not just at the end of the half or game. I want to see some sets with Joshua Cribbs in the shotgun.
You think they can do all that?
They have been practicing for months and should be able to give Minnesota some different looks.
Maybe Anderson really will start. Maybe Mangini is trying to trick everyone by pointing to Quinn, what do you think?
I think I don't know, but they better block and have more variety on offense than they did last season, or it will be a long Sunday, no matter who is the quarterback.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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2007 was his first year starting. In his 15 starts he threw for 29 tds 19 ints and almost 3800 yards. 19 ints is alot, but when you are a gunslinger type of quarterback, interceptions are going to happen. The interceptions don't really worry me that much because outside of the cincy game I can't remember really any of them coming in crucial situations, however that is my memory and I could be forgetting a couple. After 2007 everyone knew that DAs short game needed work, and last year it really wasn't significantly better, but throughout this preseason I have seen him throw quite a few swing/screen passes very well. I do think his short game is coming along. The difference between the qbs is that DA isn't afraid to take shots down field whereas BQ hesitates and goes to the checkdown, sometimes too quickly and IMO too often. I dont think there is a secondary in the NFL that will be on their heels when Quinn is the quarterback, they know that everything is going to be kept in front of them most of the time, which is why when Quinn is in teams are able to put 8 guys in the box without much worry about getting beat deep.
At least with DA defenses have to worry about the deep ball which opens up our running game. Lets face it, the Browns are going to have to pass to set up the run because our offensive line is quite solid in pass pro but mediocre when it comes to getting a push on running plays. Anderson gives the Browns the best chance to win right now. This is going to be his 3rd NFL season as a starting quarterback, the 3rd year is often the year where it all comes together for many NFL players. Hopefully it all comes together for Anderson. I think that it will.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I'm done talking/thinking about QB's.
The decision has been made. It's not up to us.
I can't wait till Sunday. Let's play some football.
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I expect there will be a leak about midway through the week naming one of the QBs. The leak will come from Mangini. He will start the other guy. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think the press loves what Mangini is doing...as it gives them something to talk about.....
Honestly Hack, I don't think it matters much what direction that mangini takes..
At least with the media here in Cleveland, had he made his choice public, they would have been all over him for not holding it close to the vest and maybe using it to make things harder for the Vikes,, And it doesn't matter if they personally agree with him or not. They'd find something else to speak negatively about.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quinn will start...
...in the competition, anything close to a tie goes to Quinn
...why?...we have not see what the guy can do yet...
...and don't come away saying Anderson is a piece of crap...he is not...he could start on this team too...but we have already seen Anderson start.
...just as in the past...the browns are a better team with both QBs on the roster...this will be the last season we have both...browns are in good shape at qb position...something some teams cannot say.
...it's Quinn's job to lose...let's hope he can get the job done...all fans should supporting him.
...and if i'm wrong, lets hope fans will support Anderson too...
...time for browns fans to stop being among the worst fans in football...ya think?
...btw, this is the best QB coaching staff the browns have had since their return in 99.
....enjoy...  ...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Dude your wasting your breath. It's a known fact that just about every person on here CANNOT evaluate a QB. Including myself. Remember 99.9% of the people on here are fans and thats all. Not coaches, not scouts, just fans. All I know is when Jeff Garcia came here this whole board was ready to announce him mayor. I was p'od and got in so many arguments with people on here I ended up getting banned. That ended up working out great  This is the same board that probably 50% of it wanted Luke McCown to start........... Fell in love with Charlie Frye (I fell in the trap as well) My point is that ALL Browns fans are searching for a quarterback so bad that it can sometimes cloud our vision. Me I have no expectations anymore, tired of being let down. I'll watch em but am not gonna be excited until they can produce on a consistent basis. Whoever may be behind center.
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I just hope when we come out.. the Browns look polished...
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Strangely, the only 2 places Garcia hasn't "worked" are here and Oakland. I'd say that clears Jeff of any blame.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I see we have some new potholes coming to the board...as always..me..I know what Mangini wants to do is create a sense of confusion for the Vikes..however they are scheming against one QB who most NFL defenses already know how to play him..cover2/3 and rotating schemes...not man or press...
The other is a unknown and not proven..and not a lot of tape to go on..almost like a rookie...
But...in terms of getting the offense settled down..U name the starter..U just don't have to let the public know it..if it were me..I'd tell them who it is so that QB can get the needed reps..U can game your opponent ,not your own players..
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I think that's a little harsh. Hack does post some good information once in a while and at least he isn't arrogant like some steeler fans.
I second that. Hack is no smack shack troll.
Hack is one of those subtle smack trolls, he's been called out for it more than a few times. Some people have a hard time picking up on that kind of thing. 
My guess is that it will be Quinn and it should be Quinn. It's not that I'm confident that Quinn will be a great QB, it's that I'm quite certain Anderson will not be. I want to see what Quinn can do this year because if he sucks we need to address this position AGAIN in the off season. My hunch is that Quinn will do just fine. We'll see.
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Seriously how much confusion will this create?? I honestly don't care as long as the team knows, but as I heard an NFL guy say this morning this is really trying to out smart yourself. As you said they know how to defend DA.......it's on the tape from every game last year. Quinn is unknown somewhat, but you pretty much can see from tape that he's accurate on the short-intermediate routes, and not so much with the long stuff. I mean how much of an advantage are we getting here??
This is the kind of crap that bugs me about Mangini........he's always trying to be so smart that he can look down right stupid. As I said, I don't care about not knowing, because Sunday's a few days away, but the whole let's get some phantom advantage is really dumb. He better hope the offense looks good on Sunday or the media will eat him for breakfast.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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It won't create confusion for the opponent..Confusious say:''Man sit on hot coals will rise"... 
Well U have one coach who sounds like some of the posters in here..if ya can't dazzle em with brilliance baffle them with BS.. 
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Quinn is unknown somewhat, but you pretty much can see from tape that he's accurate on the short-intermediate routes, and not so much with the long stuff.
I agree to some extent.
short ball - majority is on the QB to make the throw.
long ball - QB AND WR must do certain things. More so timing (my opinion atleast).
I think Quinn's advantage is that I really think he has the ability to dissect a defense, and see what is coming. He plays to that, which I like. Take what the defense gives you.. Keep moving those chains, and you will get points.
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Yeah I'm a quinn guy because I prefer a ball control type of O. I meant that more to disclaim the phantom advantage that Mangini is touting and that people are buying into.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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You cannot say that both QBs have different strengths, yet preparation for each is exactly the same. Preparing for both QBs does take some extra time. The amount of time, and whether or not it creates a sizable advantage are up for debate ..... but it does require the Vikings to prepare for both, spend extra time, and thus does create some advantage. (even a minor one)
If there were no differences between the 2 guys, posters here would have had to debate hair style and muscles as the means of preferring one QB or the other. While I am sure that there is some of that going around ..... I think that most people with a preference have a (football) reason for that preference.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am not biased, those of you who hate on DA and are in love with Quinn just because he is "supposed to be the savior" are the ones that are biased.
I'm sorry, that cracked me up.
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If it weren't for Opie trading up to get him, he would have fell to the second round easy. The Sporting News had him as a 3rd round talent.
Remind me what round of talent DA was?
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He failed time and time again at ND in big games in wins and losses and individual statistics.
In individual statistics?  And where are DA's watershed college victories?
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I don't hate Brady Quinn, I hate the people that are already in love with him and ready to give him the job just because he is Brady Quinn.
I'm not ready to give it to him just because he's Brady Quinn... I'm ready to give it to him because DA is... DA.
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Well I don't think we know what we have in DA either, how about we give him a shot. He has actually earned it, and he deserves it.
What has he done to deserve it? He hasn't been able to separate himself from BQ since his pro-bowl year...
yebat' Putin
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Neither guy was put into much of a position to win last year. 1 WR and 1 sometimes injured TE don't make for a proficient offensive attack. Add in an aging and increasingly less productive RB and it can fairly be said that neither guy had a great opportunity to succeed. Each guy had 1 really, really good game. Quinn's came against the Broncos, and Anderson's against the Giants. For anyone to say that we have the final book on either guy is ridiculous. Each guy has had ups and downs ..... and Anderson has had more of each. He's also had more games to work in, and faced better defenses overall than Quinn has. (in regular seson games) He's also faced some poor defenses. So what? A season is made up of each. I will be content to see how this all plays out, because neither guy has separated himself from the other. Neither guy has dramaticallty outplayed the other. Also, neither guy has absolutely stunk up the joint. I just wonder .... if the choice is Quinn .... and he struggles .... how long before those who called his name with such reverance in the pre-season begin calling for his head? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I just wonder .... if the choice is Quinn .... and he struggles .... how long before those who called his name with such reverance in the pre-season begin calling for his head?
I would give him the season...or most of it anyway. Unless he throws several picks a game, he should remain the starter if he's chosen for the role. We gave DA long enough when he sucked...why shouldn't BQ get the same?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I just wonder .... if the choice is Quinn .... and he struggles .... how long before those who called his name with such reverance in the pre-season begin calling for his head?
I give it until halftime for those calling Anderson's name with such reverance. 
Anderson has had far more experience behind center and he can't beat Quinn out, and I think it's silly to act like they have had equal time to show who is better. That's what Anderson fans seem to want people to believe, that doesn't fly.
Anderson had his time, and quite frankly, I wasn't impressed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
Well let me ask you this. Does the "advantage" outweigh the possible negative effects that this could have in the locker room?? I mean Mangini says he's known since last week who his starter is/was, but won't announce it to the team until today.......I suppose to keep his secret and "advantage". Do you honestly think there isn't 2 camps in the locker room who would prefer their guy over the other?? Wouldn't it be better to have had the 2 weeks for the locker room to rally around the winner instead of 1??
That's my problem mainly. Any advantage (and it is miniscule if there is one) is more than negated by keeping the team in the dark about the decision until today (I am going off of Mangini's words here). These kind of controversy's can split a locker room in two, and take time to heal once a starter is named. Don't you think that having more time to do that is more important than any silly advantage we might get??
I have a feeling Mangini has known for awhile who his starter was, and it was dumb not to get it over with at that point.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887 |
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If it weren't for Opie trading up to get him, he would have fell to the second round easy. The Sporting News had him as a 3rd round talent.
He wasn't going to make it out of the first round. Baltimore was interested in him and was trying to trade up with Dallas as well.
Every scout that really meant something including Top League scouts had him as a first round talent. He was invited to the Draft, how many 3rd round talent guys get invited to the draft?
Really think before you post nonsense.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887 |
Quote:
Quote:
I just wonder .... if the choice is Quinn .... and he struggles .... how long before those who called his name with such reverance in the pre-season begin calling for his head?
I give it until halftime for those calling Anderson's name with such reverance.
Anderson has had far more experience behind center and he can't beat Quinn out, and I think it's silly to act like they have had equal time to show who is better. That's what Anderson fans seem to want people to believe, that doesn't fly.
Anderson had his time, and quite frankly, I wasn't impressed.
And that's why it might be smart for them to move DA. If Brady has a bad game or two the boo birds are going to come out like they have done for just about all of the Cleveland QB's since 99.
If Brady can't get it done we are going to have to look for another option anyways, DA isn't going to transform into Favre. He's got a cannon arm and that's about it.
Again if Brady is not the real deal and has the oportunity to show that this year then we will be picking top 5 again and there are a few QB's we can get. I would love to get McCoy.
But I just hope the fans can be patient and let BQ try and if he struggles don't be so quick to boo.
JMHO
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn or Anderson - who will be
the starter, who should be the
starter?
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