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Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.
If you were a GM and could only keep 10 Browns players, then everyone had a shot at the rest of the rosters who would be the 10 Browns you'd "franchise" in order:
Me:
1. Joe Thomas: All-Pro LT, enough said
2. Shaun Rogers: Athlete, talent, keep him happy and motivated somehow
3. Braylon Edwards: Too talented, have to keep, what a headcase
4. Brady Quinn: Sounds crazy but we're really thin on talent. Gotta roll with him even though unproven
5. Eric Steinbach: Athlete playing Guard, so glad that Thomas was able to have him there
6. DQ: He's not nearly the player he could be here that he could be in a talented Tampa 2.
7. Mike Furrey: Love this guy. Watched him thus far and think he could be a Brian Brennan +. Quickly becoming a favorite with his quick cuts, routes and hands.
8. Kam Wimbley: Leader, I like him more than most here. It's debateable.
9. Brodney Pool: Love his athleticism, don't like the concussions or the deep responsibility play.
10. Alex Hall: In a couple years might be the star of our defense. Needs to physically continue to develop. Great frame, hands, long arms and athleticism though. Could be as good as he wants to be. If he gained 25 pounds of muscle would be a DeMarcus Ware type.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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2nd String
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1. Joe Thomas- Pro bowl left tackle enough said.
2. Eric Steinbach- Great guard, gives us possibly the best left side of o-line in football.
3. Shaun Rogers- Anchor of the defense, a massive force in the middle.
4. Josh Cribbs- Best return man in the game, best special teams player in the game and possibly a playmaking wide receiver.
5. Alex Mack- I think the kid is going to be a stud center very soon
6. Eric Wright- Future, if not already shut down corner.
7. Brady Quinn- Possibly franchise QB.
8. James Davis- Future stud RB.
9. Phil Dawson- He's basically money.
10. Ryan Pontbriand- No one can turn down the best player at their position.
honorable mention: Braylon Edwards and D'Qwell Jackson
Last edited by amp143; 09/09/09 12:30 AM.
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Legend
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Rogers
Wright
Thomas
Cribbs
Edwards
McDonald
Hall
Steinbach
if I were to pick two more it'd probably be Harrison And Davis
the rest are all replaceable if all the NFL teams were doing the same. This is our list of "keepers"
Last edited by clevesteve; 09/09/09 12:31 AM.
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Legend
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Rogers
Wright
Cribbs
Thomas
Mack (maybe)
Pontbriand
Zastudil
Sadly, I think everyone else is expendable to a certain extent.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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I think people are severely underrating D'Qwell Jackson. According to Football Outsiders D'Qwell Jackson is the 2nd best linebacker at making "stops." What is a stop? The total number of plays by a defensive player that prevent a successful play by the offense, defined as 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent of needed yards on second down and 100 percent of needed yards on third or fourth down. Jackson had the 2nd most stops in the league behind only James Farrior. Also, he led the league in tackles against the run with 106. Add that to his very good pass defense (he had 3 picks last year) and Jackson is a top 5 middle linebacker. If our defense wasn't so horrible, Jackson would be making the Pro Bowl every year. Here's my list of players: 1. Joe Thomas 2. Shaun Rogers 3. D'Qwell Jackson 4. Eric Wright 5. Braylon Edwards 6. Joshua Cribbs 7. Alex Hall 8. Alex Mack 9. Brandon McDonald 10. Whoever starts at QB
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Legend
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Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach
Alex Mack
Brady Quinn
Braylon Edwards
Josh Cribbs
Shaun Rogers
Eric Wright
Brandon McDonald
Kamerion Wimbley
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Legend
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this is a very good topic and it is difficult to come up with a rated list of 10...but I will construct my list based on how i think a GM would rank the talent value to a team.
1. Joe Thomas
2. Shaun Rogers
3. Eric Wright
4. Braylon Edwards
5. Brady Quinn
6. DQwell Jackson
7. Alex Mack
8. Eric Steinbach
9. Corey Williams
10. Josh Cribbs
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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1. Joe Thomas
2. Shaun Rogers
3. Josh Cribbs
4. Brady Quinn
5. Phil Dawson
6. Dave Zastudil
7. Ryan Pontbriand
8. Eric Wright
9. Eric Steinbach
10. Braylon Edwards
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 09/09/09 07:37 AM.
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Hall of Famer
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1. Thomas
2. Rogers
3. Cribbs
4. DQwell
5. McDonald (so underrated around here)
talent gap
6. Steinbach (maybe Mack now for Dynasty purposes because of age and upside, but def a 2nd OL)
7. Rubin (age, position and upside keeper...young talented DL dont grow on trees)
8. Wright
9/10. Quinn+DA (no preferences, but they are QBs, thus worth keeping...value etc)
overall: 2x QB, CB, OL and DL (most important positions) + 1x best LB + 1x best all around football player...that's the core imho
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Legend
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Is this like asking what 10 players on the Browns could play for any other team...
Thomas
Rogers
Cribbs
Stienbach
Edwards
DQ
Dawson
Pontibrond
Zastudil
Vickers
I think that almost any team improves with the addition of these guys,, That's the good news..
the bad news is, I had a really hard time coming up with the 10th guy...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In no order, ('cept for #1).
1. Joe Thomas
2. D'Qwell
3. Shaun Rogers
4. Dawson
5. Josh
6. Braylon
7. Steinbach
8. Eric Wright
9. BQ/DA
10. Alex Mack
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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1. Joe Thomas 2. Shaun Rogers 3. Josh Cribbs 4. Brady Quinn 5. Braylon Edwards 6. Eric Wright 7. D. Jackson 8. Eric Steinbach 9. Jamal Lewis ( taking Davis under his wing) 10. Pool or Elam (lets see who outplays who) Honorable Mention - DA ( hes still a replacement Pro Bowler  and I like both QBs) Mosely- will make more list by the end of the year Hall- Especially if he keeps showing improvement Wimbley- Cant wait to see him back to form Heldawg, No Cribbs?
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Hall of Famer
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How do you not put Cribbs on your list? That guy gives us great field position every game.
Joe Thomas #73
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Legend
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Quote:
Is this like asking what 10 players on the Browns could play for any other team...
Thomas
Rogers
Cribbs
Stienbach
Edwards
DQ
Dawson
Pontibrond
Zastudil
Vickers
I think that almost any team improves with the addition of these guys,, That's the good news..
the bad news is, I had a really hard time coming up with the 10th guy...
I like looking at it that way and your list works for me, maybe minus Vickers
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Not dissing anyone in particular, but why does Edwards appear on everyone's list ?
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Legend
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Quote:
I like looking at it that way and your list works for me, maybe minus Vickers
Yeah, I agree. Vickers is questionable when you think of it as 'who could improve other teams"! 9 of my picks are, I think, shoe ins. Like I said, that 10th guy was hard to figure.
Peen, look as some of the other lists guys put on here.. you will see Quinn on a lot of them. I just can't make myself do that until he's a proven commodity.. today, I can't say that's true. Not for me yet anyway.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Also, I would want to be allowed to get in the locker room and interact with these guys on a personal level before making this call,...can I get in a fighting hole with this guy,...will he watch my back,.can I count on him to be there. Those are the ten I want.
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Sorry, I think Jackson is really OVERrated around here, and even in the nat'l media. It's because the guy led the league in tackles. (Didn't Andra Davis finish top 3 in tackles a couple years ago?) Jackson had the luxury of playing behind one of the two most-dominant interior linemen in the game last year and the browns still finished bottom-6 against the run. The reason he led the league in tackles is because the Browns couldn't get off the field. Not really a badge of honor.
As far as top 5... really? Who is he better than on this list?
Mayo
Urlacher
Ray Lewis
Scott
Ryans
Pierce
Farrior
Beason
Foote
Nick Barnett
Timmons
Patrick Willis
Takeo Spikes
Tatupu
London Fletcher-Baker
Not only is he not top 5, he may not be in the upper half of starting ILBs. IMO Jackson is pretty pedestrian. Not saying he's bad, he's one of the 2 passable LBs we have (with Hall), but he's replaceable.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Not dissing anyone in particular, but why does Edwards appear on everyone's list ?
Ha, I didn't 
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1. Thomas
2. Rogers
3. Cribbs
4. Edwards
5. Stienbach
6. DQ
7. Vickers
8. Wright
9. Mack
10. Davis
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Legend
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1. Joe Thomas
2. Rogers.
3. EWright
4. BQ
5. DQ
6. Cribbs
7. Vickers
8. McD
9. ES
10. Wimbley
Youngsters not proven yet that I would consider...Mack, MoMas, Hall, Davis all for the future.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Not dissing anyone in particular, but why does Edwards appear on everyone's list ?
Ha, I didn't
I did not overlook that so, "most" everyone,... 
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I can't believe anyone has Kam on that list. 
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Legend
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Not to argue, but I "take-him-with-me" before BE,...
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2nd String
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I found it hard to come up with 10 players.
1. Thomas
2. Rogers
3. Cribbs
4. Dawson
Everyone else can either be replaced, or is not developed enough to make a list like this.
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Legend
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I don't get how any team would have any kicker in their top 10 players.
Any player that can play every down is more valuable than any kicker. There is a reason we don't see kickers going before the 4th round of drafts, and mostly later then that. They are very easily replaceable.
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2nd String
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Quote:
I don't get how any team would have any kicker in their top 10 players.
Any player that can play every down is more valuable than any kicker. There is a reason we don't see kickers going before the 4th round of drafts, and mostly later then that. They are very easily replaceable.
I disagree. Not just b/c I have Dawson on my list. Having a good solid kicker is not as easily replaced as you might think. Having a kicker that can nail over 80-85% of their kicks is very valuable. Especially when a game is on the line.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Sorry, I think Jackson is really OVERrated around here, and even in the nat'l media. It's because the guy led the league in tackles. (Didn't Andra Davis finish top 3 in tackles a couple years ago?) Jackson had the luxury of playing behind one of the two most-dominant interior linemen in the game last year and the browns still finished bottom-6 against the run. The reason he led the league in tackles is because the Browns couldn't get off the field. Not really a badge of honor.
As far as top 5... really? Who is he better than on this list?
Mayo
Urlacher
Ray Lewis
Scott
Ryans
Pierce
Farrior
Beason
Foote
Nick Barnett
Timmons
Patrick Willis
Takeo Spikes
Tatupu
London Fletcher-Baker
Not only is he not top 5, he may not be in the upper half of starting ILBs. IMO Jackson is pretty pedestrian. Not saying he's bad, he's one of the 2 passable LBs we have (with Hall), but he's replaceable.
I disagree.
I especially don't like how you knock DQ for playing behind Rogers then proceed to name Ravens/Steelers players who have MUCH MUCH better supporting casts. Like with the Ravens team, you name Ray Lewis (who at this stage of his career has nothing on D'Qwell, trust me), yet he was surrounded by studs like Haloti Ngata (massively underrated), Bart Scott, Suggs, Reed, etc.
Watch #52 against Minnesota, regardless of what else is going on he will be flying across the field, always near the ball and obviously making a lot of tackles. In fact, if I were making my list it would go like this:
1. JT - no brainer
2. DQ
Not that I think those are the two best players on the team, but those are the two I'd put at the top of my list as ones I'd want to keep. Sure Rogers is a better player but he's also a massive D-lineman going on year 9 in the league.. it's hard to project how much longer he'll be such a dominant player.
Now that I think about it, weren't Thomas and D'Qwell the 'untouchables' by the new regine this past offseason?
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Yes, they were untouchable.
And thank you for making my argument for me.
I didn't want to explain to someone why D'Qwell Jackson is better than Larry Foote. Because if they are making the statement that Foote is better there is no point in debating the subject anyway.
It's just crazy how underrated this guy is by the fans of the team he plays for.
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All Pro
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1) Thomas
2) Rogers
3) DQ
4)Cribbs
5) Wright
6)Davis
7)Mack
8)Braylon
9)McDonald
10) Vickers
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Dawg Talker
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1. Joe Thomas: No Doubt b/c of position
2. Shaun Rogers: Best player on team
3. Josh Cribbs: versatility, passion, production, team 1st player
4. Brady Quinn: Unproven, but you need a QB
5. DQ: Only young proven LB on team that runs a 3-4 where LB depth is needed
6. Braylon Edwards: Talent, production is there if head in game, good trade bait
7. Eric Wright - Imagine if we had a pass rush
8. James Davis: Sad but we need a RB and he looks like he has promise
9. Alex Mack: Hope he proves he belongs on here
10. Alex Hall: Potential
Sad looking at this that most of these guys haven't proven squat or had one good year but I guess that is what you have when you are consistently in the 4-6 win range
Just missing out (in order)....Brandon McDonald, Eric Steinbach, Derek Anderson, MoMass, Robiske, Coye Francies, Wimbley, Rubin, Mosley
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Lewis was a guaranteed HOFer before Ngata was even on the draft radar. He is the unquestioned leader of their defense. He makes impact plays behind the line of scrimmage. I don't think many people would attribute Ray Lewis' performance on the football field to having a good supporting cast.
Tatupu, Willis, Beason, Ryans all had nothing like Rogers in front of them when they established themselves as terrific players. All of them were significant contributors in turning around their teams' run defenses immediately after being drafted. Obviously, the same can't be said of DQ, despite the improvement of the DLine. Our run defense was atrocious once again last year. What is this now, DQ's fourth year?
Weren't we having this same discussion about Andra Davis 2-3 years ago?
I think if I went to a team and saw I had a guy who led the league in tackles I'd probably call him "untouchable" the next day, too. Not sure if the Gini still feels that way. If he is untouchable, it's only because we have nobody else who's a competent ILB.
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Practice Squad
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The Cream
1 JT (Jesus)
2 Rodgers (Superman)
3 Cribbs (The Spark)
4 DQ (Batman)
5 Edwards (... begrudgingly, The Threat)
Good
6 Wright
7 Steinbach
8 Rubin
9 Wimbely
10 Pontirand
Bubble
11 Mack
12 Corey Williams
13 Hall
14 McDonald
15 Davis
Ruckaholics Anonymous: We can help.
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Legend
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Quote:
2 Rodgers (Superman)
If Rogers (no D) is the 2nd best player on your favorite team you should probably know how to spell his name. Just saying.
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The key to your argument is in your own post...WAS...Lewis several years ago was a no brainer. Lewis now is just like the Lewis on our roster, he has lost a step. I think you are letting his past cloud your judgment of the Ray-Ray of present.
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Legend
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Last year Ray Lewis was the leading tackler and team captain on the NFL's #2 pass defense, the #3 run defense, and the #3 scoring defense.
Jackson was the leading tackler on the #14th pass, #28th run, and #16 scoring defense.
By the numbers, the ravens' D had 276 completions against them, 366 rushing attempts against, and 34 sacks, for a total of 676 plays against that were not incomplete passes. He had 117 tackles (85 solo) for 17.3% (12.6%) of plays not resulting in an incomplete. Jackson's numbers are 286 com + 541 rush + 17 sacks = 844 plays. His 154 tackles (95 solo) represent 18.2% (11.2% solo). Bear in mind that most of these tackles come on running plays, of which the Browns saw 50% more.
I really hope you're not trying to say Ray Lewis has fallen off. He hasn't. He's missed 4 games in the last 3 years, including none last year. He's still the leader on the Ravens' D which is one of the top 3 in the game.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I really hope you're not trying to say Ray Lewis has fallen off. He hasn't.
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The difference is that 5 years ago everyone was like "oh no, we have to face Ray Lewis!!"
Now, everyone is like "oh no! We have to face the Ravens D, led by Ray Lewis!"
Ruckaholics Anonymous: We can help.
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So I'm still waiting for some kind of criteria that says DQ is even APPROACHING top-5 ILB in football... which is what this whole "discussion" has been about. In this specific instance where DQ is somehow as good as or better than Ray Lewis. Sure, people may now say we have to face the Ravens D, led by Ray Lewis instead of face Ray Lewis... but what O-coordinator or QB or RB do you think is losing sleep over having to face Jackson? I'll bet that list is a lot shorter than it is for at least 10 guys on the list I gave.
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