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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Really? Because it seems me that Eli was never benched. Anderson lost his job for turning the ball over like he was part of a points shaving scandal.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see Anderson bench because of his pick at the end of the Baltimore game. I recall Anderson was on a pickless streak before that throw. I remember the media and fanbase calling for Quinn mightily at that point so the coaching staff gave him a go at an opportune time against a Denver defense that was statistically worse than even our own. Some on here, even Quinn supporters said the coaching decision was odd. Our offense was on fire the week prior when we handed the defending Super Bowl champs an upset. Plus the up and down play of our offense and DA at that point fuelled the media and fans chanting for the Golden Boy.
I could be wrong and absent minded though. 
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To be fair here, this is what Edwards said about the INT by Quinn where Edwards went on the skinny-post and Quinn threw the short flag : Quote:
"I made a mistake," Edwards said of the route that resulted in the interception.
That's why I didn't crucify Quinn for the pick. Hard to be sure who's fault it was. I believed the odds may have been that Quinn made a bad read, but that doesn't look like the case.
That's the kind of mistake I can live with from Quinn, and that blame falls squarely on the shoulders of 'Gini. Edwards won't throw him under the bus, but Quinn's lack of time under center contributed to that INT.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i saw that too and the first thought that came to mind is "if only he said that last year." glad to see he's growing up, at least.
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Thanks for posting.
I knew it right when I saw it.
And for all the chicken littles in here. My lordy!
Remember when I said to ratchet expectations down a little??? I called that one too. Pitchforks and torches. Rediculous.
Minny is a Top 10 team. We're a bottom 10 team. And it's not the QB play that separates us. I would hope that most here can realize that.
I expect Quinn to have a nice game next week. And I know he's still the QB for this team. He had a bad first game against a heck of an opponent. It's ok people. Yikes!
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j/c... I'm starting to think Jaft was right about Browns fans 
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2nd String
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Quote:
To be fair here, this is what Edwards said about the INT by Quinn where Edwards went on the skinny-post and Quinn threw the short flag : Quote:
"I made a mistake," Edwards said of the route that resulted in the interception.
That's why I didn't crucify Quinn for the pick. Hard to be sure who's fault it was. I believed the odds may have been that Quinn made a bad read, but that doesn't look like the case.
That's the kind of mistake I can live with from Quinn, and that blame falls squarely on the shoulders of 'Gini. Edwards won't throw him under the bus, but Quinn's lack of time under center contributed to that INT.
What does Quinn's lack of time under center have to do about that "INT". That was a total timing play where the QB throws it to a spot were the WR is supposed to be. Christ last time i checked you can't steer a football to a WR in midflight. If the WR isnt at that spot then he screwed up not the QB slam BE for daydreaming spread out the damn wealth the team as a whole played like crap, complain about Mack's slow as hell snaps and high shotgun snaps, Daboll's version of Mo Carthon's playcalling, missed tackles by everyone on defense don't see how you can just single one guy out of a whole team that did not show up. 
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Legend
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I think Quinn has three years of rust on his shoulders. He was touted as the most NFL ready QB the year we drafted him. He got stuck behind DA in a QB farce for two years. He's had two OC's, two HC's, two QB coaches and the mentoring of DA and Dorsey. Not to mention a new ROOKIE center... So I think we need to give him a few games to find Brady Quinn in all that mess.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 09/14/09 01:53 AM.
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Legend
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Yep Quinn averaged 4 yards per pass early... THE WR's COULD NOT GET OPEN!
Did you even watch the game?
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i'm going to break my rule of replying to you this once.
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This is just getting silly now. How many young QB with 3-10 starts air it out at first.
sanchez: 18/31, 272 yards, 1 td, 1 int
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I don't know the 44yrd TD he threw to BE looked pretty darn good, (I know it got called back).
it was an underthrown int waiting to happen. if you don't see that, you validate our views of you.
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After all this I still would rather have a QB like BQ over a gun slinger that can throw the ball any where like DA.
yea, i hate having a qb who can throw the ball anywhere. i ONLY want them to complete passes under 10 yards. especially when down 3 scores in the 4th quarter.
Brett Favre
14/21 for only 105 yards.. 1 td
^ I wouldnt call that stellar.. it's just that he was on the winning team.. if he was on the browns and lost, you'd be calling for his head...
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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nrtu...
what i saw today in Quinn...was a QB that doesnt match up well with the Vikings defense. and...that scares me, because there are two very similar defenses in our very own division.
Perhaps the wideouts werent getting very open, and yea Edwards ran the wrong route on the INT, but I saw a kid trying to throw short passes.
What im continuing to see in Quinn is that he will be a very good QB when he has a great running game and a good defense and WRs that can get very open. He will be great with a good pass catching RB and a good pass catching TE...I dont know if thats our team right now. Quinn would be very good on the Vikings, Ravens, even the Saints and teams of the like. but idk about the Cleveland Browns.
Ill reserve full judgment until we see him play against Denver...but my first impression is that we have a QB that doesnt fit our team. I still want #3 in there. I think Quinn very well could succeed and be very very good...but i dont know if we have the parts here in Cleveland to do that for him.
Additionally, I saw an OC...that doesnt trust him. We ran the ball way too many times...even in passing situations, and I dont know why he doesnt...but Daboll treated Quinn with kid gloves today...and Quinn treated offense in general with kid gloves today.
My biggest worry about Quinn right now...is that he doesnt matchup well against these kinds of defenses like we saw today...and we have 2 of them in our division.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Last year was the 1st year that Eli Manning completed 60% of his passes.
It was also the 1st year he had twice as many TDs as INTs.
His Super Bowl year compares quite closely to Anderson's 2007.
In that year, the Giants also ranked top 10 in defense and rushing offense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I pointed out Anderson's propensity for dumb turnovers, inability to run an offense; and that to contrast Eli is greater than him in both areas.
It's a fairly dumb practice to quote a person's previous posts that has the reasoning and then say "LOLZ you didn't gives no reasons so ya GOT NONE"
Well I guess all the PM's I got about you last night were right, you aren't worth my time and make no sense in these discussions.
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Mangini and Co. did make a, HUGE mistake at QB, but the mistake was twofold. 1) Not naming BQ the starter after TC and 2) making sure he played the first half of every pre-season game, with all the starters for at least more than one quarter, not to mention ALL the practices. Then he might have been better prepared for the opening game !  As far as I know Brady wans't calling his won plays, they were coming from the OC. The exception maybe being the fourth quarter drive, when he took the team down the field in 9 plays for a TD, in about 2 minutes.  Maybe they should let him do that more often, I'm not real impressed by the new OC, of coarse it would help if we had a "D" that could stop the run. That's why we made a big mistake by not going "D" with our first two 2nd round picks. There was a lot of good "D" talent on the board, we could have gotten a starter out of our firsts 2nd round pick, instead of someone to ride the pine. 
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clicking on ya. \I passed out (err..... fell asleep) around 8 p.m. and missed all these feel-good threads LOL. Couple of thoughts on Quinn's "inaccuracy".... he threw a deep ball to BE on the left side in the first quarter... it looked like BE was slow to get his head around to find the ball or that woulda been a big gain... the little slant that was behind BE, terrible throw... but was he REALLY that inaccurate all afternoon? If so, was it a combination of nerves and a formidable defense? But who is our legit #2 wideout? Cribbs is not that and won't be. Where was Furrey for 3 1/2 qtrs? Were the receivers getting open downfield? I'd like to see more of MassQ, to be honest. it's early, but Robo looks like a wasted pick... was he even in uniform? And the Vikes' defense is more than the Williams Sisters... they have a good back 7 with pretty good linebackers; Winfield is a great corner. His Brady Bobble was an unfortunate occurrence... I joked that his palms were sweaty from all his power-lifting.  Unless he completely falls apart the next few weeks, Quinn deserves time, though (at least 10-12 games IMO)... but if he doesn't tighten up on his accuracy issues (the ones you guys keep harping on) it's not gonna be a long time, but a short time because things might go south attitude-wise among the team.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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BQ was not good enough, and he forced some, and threw very bad passes (including that whiffydrop gem when we needed him). Worse mistakes as pressure mounted on him to perform. He needs to be better and quickly. This might be the week. The offense needs to carry half the game, their share of the load. We got nothing again. I am for benching BE if he won't block or can't stop the crappy holding penalties. MoMass and Robo soon; bench the non-productive. We should tackle about every day, almost all day, and almost all week. I hoped for a win, but I expected a better showing than that. Nice sack count; props to the D. Find us a RT with feet that move.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Gonna be a long season if that's the Quinn that so many around here wanted to play...  What got me was just how off some of those throws were - just WAY off.
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You crack me up.
And the last one . . . if Brady is starting next week you will be doing something else with your girlfriend instead of watching the game. Well, I hope that's not the case cause your posts are a riot!
You ever think thats the point?
Folks sure are paying attention to my crazy funny posts...im known for it...just gotta learn to laugh at me sometimes.
All kidding aside though, everyone here knows I am a gluten for punishment, i'll continue to watch the Browns.
On a serious note though, I don't want Gini to yank Quinn yet...he deserve at least 4 or 5 more games before we can really gauge him.
My concern is his "fear" of throwing down field...why does Anderson have no problem hitting the 15-17 yard routes across the middle and Quinn looks scared..if those routes are there for Da, they are there for Quinn.
it could be Dabol not letting him though
on a serious note, lets see what happens the next few weeks..the Donks are decent though, and they have a much better secondary then the Vikings do...Champ Bailey....
If Quinn looks the same next week, where do we go? Anderson? I am not sure, but I am more concerned about next year, if Gini doesn't like either..are we drafting a rookie?
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Gonna be a long season if that's the Quinn that so many around here wanted to play...
What got me was just how off some of those throws were - just WAY off.
Right...because DA never has that problem does he?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Toad:
Practice and pre-season games do not equal real games period. This year in pre-season Quinn played what? Less than 3 quarters in 3 games.
The Vikings are not exactly chopped liver either. Quinn could have thrown the ball better. I could see that. But really give him five games and then throw mud on his career? I don't really think that is justice.
I can site all kinds of guys like Collins, Rich Gannon, Aikmen. All needed real games to gain experience. It also helps to have a running game don't you think?
When you are "the starter" and you go through a season and you practice all year with the first team you develop chemistry and timing. The Manning and Harrison in sync combination is not accomplished sharing snaps in camp and playing a quarter here and there in pre-season.
What we should expect is improvement as the season goes on. That goes for the offense as a whole. Hand offs to Lewis out of the shotgun is not a real good play. Gimmicks to get into the end zone from the five yard line does not spell good offense.
You may want to look at the supporting cast also. Edwards? And who else?
I understand accuracy. Quinn missed some throws.
The jury is still out on Quinn. Five games or this season for that matter is not enough of a sample to evaluate a QB. It is a beginning and it should be watched closely and called out as it happens.
The success or failure of a QB should be looked at judged within the context of the factors that surrounds the performance.
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You're right, but that is no excuse for poor play. It didn't stop Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, and Phillip Rivers from being effective in their first seasons as starters.
All of those including Eli Manning had some sorry games..and looked terrible at times.....now I am lookig for him to bounce back and look like a pro ...if he looks like this next week and so on..then he's not the signal caller for this team..and neither is DA BECAUSE I know what I'll see from him..
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Yeah, actually that is exactly what I got out of your posts above. I imagine you' re a guy that has dry humor with a healthy dose of sarcasm when the moment strikes you and that's fine by me. I think it all starts with coaching, if you're calling the wildcat at the opponents 2 something isn't clicking between the ears. If I'm not mistaken, this is Dabol's first time as a coordinator . . . .EVERYONE is entitled to mistakes and bad days. Let's see how they learn from this. Mangini on the other hand has little wiggle room for amateur mistakes . . . the qb competition was not the right thing to do. . . now he's got to correct it.
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You're right, but that is no excuse for poor play. It didn't stop Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, and Phillip Rivers from being effective in their first seasons as starters.
All of those including Eli Manning had some sorry games..and looked terrible at times.....now I am lookig for him to bounce back and look like a pro ...if he looks like this next week and so on..then he's not the signal caller for this team..and neither is DA BECAUSE I know what I'll see from him..
I doubt DA starts this year unless Quinn gets hurt.
Attack, i'm looking more for him to improve against a balt type team. He's going to see elite teams at least 4 times a year, he's gotta keep his composure. He should be ok against Denver. If not i'll be worried.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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IF Quinn continues to regress he won't be the starter..but I don't think that'll be the case...I mentioned two years ago I thought BQ was overhyped..I know about him from being in Dublin..so I've known about him for a long time..what it looks to me is a guy who has to be perfect when he throws instead of just playing..don't aim the ball throw it...I'm not going to run him over after the first game..no, I'll give him time like I did Frye..but not as long because I know he's better than him..
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IF Quinn continues to regress he won't be the starter..but I don't think that'll be the case...I mentioned two years ago I thought BQ was overhyped..I know about him from being in Dublin..so I've known about him for a long time..
small world, I'm in that neck of the woods too. Different part of town, I only heard of him once he got to ND.
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what it looks to me is a guy who has to be perfect when he throws instead of just playing..don't aim the ball throw it...I'm not going to run him over after the first game..no, I'll give him time like I did Frye..but not as long because I know he's better than him..
that's fair. I think he's better then how he played and I mentioned before that it looked like he was thinking too much. I didn't want to dog the guy too much, just air some concerns, that's all.
I'm sure he'll be better then chuck, at least he has it upstairs
For the record I did defend DA against what I thought was unfair blame, however, I didn't care who the starter was.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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What im continuing to see in Quinn is that he will be a very good QB when he has a great running game and a good defense and WRs that can get very open. He will be great with a good pass catching RB and a good pass catching TE...
Ummm..........I beleive that almost every QB in the League could succeed if that was all it took......let me see,.....wide open WR's.......a great running game.........a good pass catching RB AND TE.........and oh yea....I almost forgot the good defense.........
I think just maybe that some of the posters on this board could succeed with all of that 
Seriuosly guys (and gals), even I am surprised at the heat BQ is getting after one game against a very good defense. Let's give him a couple of games at least.
Do I think he had a good game, no not really, but I don't think it was the end of the world either. To be honsest I was more upset with the play calling than I was with the QB play. Seriously, Wildcat, shotgun formation on 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line??????? at least let Cribbs throw the ball every now and then if you are going to do that.
Brady looked tight the whole game, actually so did most of our team, and I thought we actually did OK until AD took the game over in the 3rd quarter.
Am I disappionted, yea, I am, is the sky falling.......no, I don't think it is yet.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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To be honsest I was more upset with the play calling than I was with the QB play. Seriously, Wildcat, shotgun formation on 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line??????? at least let Cribbs throw the ball every now and then if you are going to do that.
Toad mentions Daboll doesn't have confidence in BQ yet but he must not have confidence in his running game either..you mean the BROWNS CAN'T PUNCH it in from the one...or you can't even run play action and fade into the endzone?
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The fade play is the worst play in all of football. And should never be run unless you have a Randy Moss type receiver. It NEVER works. On the flip side, I love when teams run the fade against us
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U a playcaller?
U have a tall wideout..U use it..seen it work many times in a mismatch situation..it does work.
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haha thanks BlueCollar I was just trying to have some good fun...even though I personally don't think Quinn is the answer, I am more than happy to give the guy a fair chance. Besides we always stink on opening day anywhow I agree with what your saying on the wildcat..that was just dumb. I am glad atleast someone here gets a kick out of my posts, or else I am not doing my job well enough take care bluecollar
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I'd love to see the success rate on the "fade" play. I bet it's around 5 percent, and absolutely no higher than 10 percent.
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Quinn reminded me a bit of Tim Couch yesterday. Some might think that is a negative... but Couch was the best QB we've had since the return, easily. And Quinn looked in his 4th game to be where Couch was in his 30th and 40th type games.
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Look at Troy Aikman's stats after his first 11 games. Or look at Bernies stats in his 4th game. I've said it once, I'll say it now and I'll say it again. It takes time to develop a QB in this league. Very few step in and are in the elite category. If we stay the course with Quinn like the Giants did with Eli Manning (that's one example) he will deliver and only other areas will be of concern on this team. We are not that far away.
The club wasted a whole preseason of snaps with the first unit playing political football so as not to upset anyone. This was done to appease the fanbase.
Unfortunately, this accomplished little in actually readying a new starter for his role. What you need as a starter are snaps under center with the first unit to develop chemistry with your skill players.
For those who want to jump ship after only one game, I say please do so, and never look back. The Browns are looking long term, and feel like the better upside and the better long term plan is with Quinn. The team and Quinn will get along just fine without you.
When developing a QB, that doesn't mean there won't be bumps in the road, especially against a defense like the Vikings have. There will be progression, some day dramatically, and other days not much at all. The important thing is progression though.
Oh yah, while we are at it....the right side of the line still doesn't look good.
Last edited by NFLToday; 09/14/09 11:19 AM.
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I'm not going to call for Quinn to be benched or suggest we have to draft a new QB yet, but if Quinn doesn't show at least average NFL accuracy by the fifth or sixth game, I want him benched. This is his third NFL season. By this point, he either has "it" or he doesn't.
This is quite the overreaction. Derek Anderson has 27 starts and 31 games under his belt over what is now 5 years in the league, and he STILL hasn't shown even remotely close to "average" NFL accuracy, yet you want to bench Brady in favor of him?
Start Brady the entire season regardless of what happens. We know what we have in DA... we don't know what we have in Brady. At the end of the year, I want to be able to concretely say "Yes, we need to go draft a new franchise QB" or "No, we're good with what we have". By sitting Brady, we open up all kinds of nightmare scenarios.
What if DA comes in and stinks it up to the point where we have to go with Brady again, and he comes out and plays incredibly well? We'll have to make our decision with a small sample size (which is what we had to do this year and the reason why we passed Sanchez). What if DA comes out and plays only decently but well enough to keep the job? Again, another decision with a small sample size. What if DA comes out and throws very well? Do you think he's legit and ignore drafting a new QB or do you write it up to a fluke like it was the last time we faced a cupcake schedule?
No matter how you slice it, switching QBs mid-season makes the decision that we'll have to make at the END of the season (the one that will impact our future years down the road) incredibly difficult. If we admit we know what we have in DA and test Brady by fire, we'll know exactly the steps we need to take for our QB position in the future.
Personally, to me, it's worth possibly losing an extra game or two in a non-playoff year by thoroughly testing Brady for a whole season in order to be able to send the franchise in a cut and dry direction moving forward. I don't know if Brady is the guy or not but you CANNOT make a decision on a guy with less than a season's worth of work to judge.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Thats the thing though. Without things like that he's not going to look overly successful. and the point with the WRs getting very open. He's going to need them to be very very open for him to throw them the ball. Quinn needs great RBs and TEs to be successful and thats not so much this team. Again, I dont think that Quinn is a bad QB, he is just a conservative game manager who will hit guys in the flat before he hits a WR.
Say what you will about #3 but his problem never will be not taking chances. His problem will be taking too many.
One question that I have actually about yesterday. Where was the screen game? We used it so very very much in the preseason and I dont remember a screen yesterday.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
I believe we tried one screen, but the Vikings D blew it up, so Quinn just threw it at the RB's feet.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
There is no way you take Quinn out prior to week 10 or 11...no matter how bad he is from game to game. We have to see him play, and see if he can get better.
His accuracy was very good in the preseason...he moved the ball very well against a good Titans. Thats preseason, but it showed he can have the accuracy, and he does have the arm strength. I think he was trying to aim the ball yesterday, I think he was nervous. Plus his OL sucked outside of JT and Steiny.
If he settles down and just throws, he might be alirght. One thing is for sure, hes the first QB we have had since 99 that can come up to the line and recognize what he sees and change the play for the better.
A big reason our running game was successful yesterday was due to the fact that Quinn got us out of a bad play, into a good play. We ran away from blitzes on several occasions yesterday.
We have to see what Quinn is made of over a long period of time, we gain nothing from benching him, we don't have a better option behind him, no rook waiting in the wings. Our best bet is stick it out, and see what happens for a minimum of 10 games.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
i don't have a problem with the final numbers. if that's the production we expect from our qbs and we move the ball, fine. the difference, though, is favre completed the passes when he needed to and he didn't use his rb/te as a crutch for completions. look on nfl.com. of quinn's 35 pass attempts, 30 of them are characterized as "short" and that's with us being behind in the 2nd half.my frustration isn't with quinn's numbers, it's that he coudln't get his receivers involved and now we have a better understanding why. all training camps showed he was very inaccurate in practice. people said he'd be better in games. he did better in preseason so i was encouraged then he comes out, in a real game, where people said he's a "gamer" and lays an egg. overthrew, underthrew, and threw behind his receivers. relied on his backs and tight ends too much. even though favre didn't have the numbers, when he needed to, he foudn his receivers to extend the drive, something else that people here said quinn would do but i saw none of that.
in the end, this was just the ugly game by quinn and the opposite of many posters' unrealistic expectations of quinn. he gets at least 3-4 more games and i really hope he improves but to be honest, i saw everything i expected to see.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
This is Obsurdly funny. Throwing a guy under the bus when he had a bad game against one of the best defenses in the NFL? we got denver, balt., cinci and buffalo. If we play like we did in tthe 1st half. we can be 3-2 rolling into pittsburgh. Also some of the playcalling was BS. 3rd and 10 and you throw a shovelpass? 3rd and goal with 4 inches and you don't QB sneek or power-I when we were getting a push up front? Not onl y that they made the carnal sin of pulling on the goal line, that invited penetration. At halftime we also had almost 16 min T.O.P this helps our weak defense, that did not look weak at all for half the game. Also IMO baltimore it's Baltimore's Offense we have to worry about, judging by my knee jerk reaction of 1 game against the lowly chiefs, thier D is getting a little slow of foot. 
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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