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Gonna be a long season if that's the Quinn that so many around here wanted to play...
What got me was just how off some of those throws were - just WAY off.
Right...because DA never has that problem does he?
That's not the point at all...
If BQ = DA and the feeling is that DA = 
Then we simply have DA v2.0 in BQ.
And since we already have time invested in DA and know that he does have pro bowl caliber talent inside him.... could be a HUGE waste waiting on BQ to see if he might be better.
The point is that most assumed that BQ would be a much better QB than DA and in his first outing, it's quite the opposite.
Last edited by CDawg; 09/14/09 12:11 PM.
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here you go. hope you feel better after this. Quote:
Really? Because it seems me that Eli was never benched. Anderson lost his job for turning the ball over like he was part of a points shaving scandal.
that is not PROOF. there are so many angles to this that is flat out stupid that it's just silly. manning can't be benched. they had no one else. further, they would never need to as they had a top ranked defense and a top rushing game. FURTHER, DA lost his spot for many reasons but not for the turnovers as he had 180 attempts before an int, something another poster here replied to you about yet you conveniently ignored. DA was benched because of public sentiment, rac's fear for his job security, and because we were playing a very poor broncos team. it was clearly the best situation to start quinn, particularly since the season was done and we needed to get quinn some game experience.
that part gives NO reason worth addressing.
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If you are syncing up their stats and using that as a guide, then we don't have much to talk about. Using a stat sheet will get you nowhere when comparing the two of them. Right now when the game is on the line, Anderson chokes and turns the ball over and is 100% incapable of running the offense in it's entirety.
you write crap blanket statements yet think you give valid points for discussion? seriously? sure, just throw the stats is for losers thing. that's fine. no one was looking at stats to begin with. all the complaints about quinn's performance had to do with the fact that he's inaccurate. no, not 60% inaccurate, but as in not being to hit his receivers in stride. as in throwing behind braylon on a slant. as in underthrowing braylon when he had man coverage and a step. as in overthrowing a diving braylon. these were all things people like you ripped DA for, yet when quinn does it, what? it's edwards' fault? please.
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Eli has drastically improved in this area over the past season and a half and is a field general, and I will bet you the bank he finishes well over 60% this season.
again, NOTHING here. ytown already addressed it so i don't even need to. you finally end with you willing to bet that eli is over 60%. so what? that does nothing to address my point. my point is DA's development mirrors eli but eli had 7 starts as a rookie and FOUR FULL SEASONS. that's 71 game starts. derek started 27 games. as a 6th round pick. and is mirroring him. which was my point.
hope you feel better now. i could care less about what you gossip about in your pms. keep thinking you made legit points. also keep ignoring the other posters who were kind enough to reply to your post with good points.
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they made the carnal sin
Oh how I love it, when that happens to me.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Time? No. I stated a month ago or so that whoever started for the Browns would get no time to play "almost" there. DA, Quinn. I don't care. Play like a freaking nfl qb or get the hell out.
Arch, I believe the phrase you used was either one had to play "balls out" from the get-go. Now, the Vikes defence is tougher than leather and I think BQ needs some time.... but I agree with your basic premise.
gmstrong -----------------
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j/c...
I know everyone came into this game terrified of Minny's D, but someone enlighten me as to how they completely dominated us, you know, with Jamal averaging 5 yards a carry and our Oline giving Quinn plenty of time to throw all game long.
Sorry, but there was pressure from the right side most of the game. He did have decent time to throw, but it's not like he could just stand there for 5 seconds like some want to insinuate.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I'm not sure giving up 4 sacks is really giving your QB a lot of time the entire game.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Brady looked nervous, which is to be expected. He'll be OK once he settles in.
gmstrong -----------------
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That reminded me of another gem from the moron woman sitting near me.
As Brady Quinn is walking out onto the field during a timeout early in the game: "Oh my God, look at him! He's walking like a dejected little girl! Suck it up pretty boy!"
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i don't have a problem with the final numbers. if that's the production we expect from our qbs and we move the ball, fine. the difference, though, is favre completed the passes when he needed to and he didn't use his rb/te as a crutch for completions. look on nfl.com. of quinn's 35 pass attempts, 30 of them are characterized as "short" and that's with us being behind in the 2nd half.my frustration isn't with quinn's numbers, it's that he coudln't get his receivers involved and now we have a better understanding why. all training camps showed he was very inaccurate in practice. people said he'd be better in games. he did better in preseason so i was encouraged then he comes out, in a real game, where people said he's a "gamer" and lays an egg. overthrew, underthrew, and threw behind his receivers. relied on his backs and tight ends too much. even though favre didn't have the numbers, when he needed to, he foudn his receivers to extend the drive, something else that people here said quinn would do but i saw none of that.
in the end, this was just the ugly game by quinn and the opposite of many posters' unrealistic expectations of quinn. he gets at least 3-4 more games and i really hope he improves but to be honest, i saw everything i expected to see.
The problem though is everyone wants to throw Quinn under the bus after having a terrible first game of the season.. This is his only 4th start.. and he really time to prepare for any of his starts.. as he was a replacement or was announced late that he was going to be a starter..
We need to give him a few more before we run him out of town.. and as much as many of us railed against DA was giving plenty of time to prove himself.. we need to give quinn some time as well.. at least give him a few more games before calling for his head.
What's worse is you had people saying we should have got Cutler.. look how well Cutler did last night.. 4 int's... he would have been at home crying after all the Browns fans who are out calling for his head.. this run the QB out of town mentality needs to stop. I personally gave DA a long chance until i saw his short field problem becoming a problem.. what sucks is that we have DA who likes to throw long but cant throw short and Quinn who likes to throw short, but doesn't feel comfortable enough to throw long.
What improvements we need to see from Quinn:
1. Accuracy - though i believe a lot of it in week 1 was due to nervousness but i dont blame him for being nervous.. he knows how much we expect from him and how we ran other qb's out of town.. Couch... Holcomb after he started sucking... Garcia..... DA.. Quinn,, DA again and now Quinn again
2. Throwing long.. he needs to start trusting his wr's and start throwing it to them... all i kept seeing sunday was him throwing to royal or another te... we have wr's to catch the ball and te's to block and be the secondary receivers when the wr's cant get open..
if he cant get it straight within game 7 i think we need to start looking elsewhere.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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if he cant get it straight within game 7 i think we need to start looking elsewhere.
You know, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm seeing more of this than I am the "start DA" stuff.
Personally, I think we'll be able to form a MUCH better opinion on BQ just after this next game, but I'm certainly not going to be calling for his head even then (assuming he doesn't totally stink and he does improve on his struggles).
As with this whole team, as long as I see improvement over mistakes we've made in playing and coaching, I'm going to be happy.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i agree with most of what you say. it's a given he needs more starts and it can't be stressed enough that he's going against a superbowl contender. that said, i don't agree about having limited preparation time and all that other stuff. he had all offseason to prepare and develop chemistry.
that said, and like i said in another thread to you, it's simply a matter of holding quinn to the same standard as DA has been held to. it woulnd't be fair otherwise, especially when so many were absolutely convinced quinn was better.
i don't even need quinn to throw long but what we need him to do is get his receivers involved early. furrey has solid hands and even dropped a pass because he wasn't used until the 2nd half. we know what type of receiver edwards can be when he isn't involved and when he is. our receivers, as a group, need more than just 8 catches.
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i agree with most of what you say. it's a given he needs more starts and it can't be stressed enough that he's going against a superbowl contender. that said, i don't agree about having limited preparation time and all that other stuff. he had all offseason to prepare and develop chemistry.
that said, and like i said in another thread to you, it's simply a matter of holding quinn to the same standard as DA has been held to. it woulnd't be fair otherwise, especially when so many were absolutely convinced quinn was better.
i don't even need quinn to throw long but what we need him to do is get his receivers involved early. furrey has solid hands and even dropped a pass because he wasn't used until the 2nd half. we know what type of receiver edwards can be when he isn't involved and when he is. our receivers, as a group, need more than just 8 catches.
I have no problem holding Quinn up the same standard as DA, but it's hard to see that standard with only 1 game as the starter(or even in the 4 he has had.. and this was his 3rd he started without injury)
But he does need to trust his wr's more... 8 out of 21 passes going to them isn't good and I was calling that during the game that he needs to stop these passes to te's...
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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well that's why no one is calling for his benching or anything. merely pointing out the same mistakes that others latched on when DA was playing. it's crazy how the same exact poor throws were made.
i don't even think it's a matter of trusting his receivers. i don't think quinn trusts his arm. i did not watch quinn when he was in college but, imo, it looks like quinn needs quite a bit of space to justify throwing the ball. he doesn't want a defensive player close to his target. unfortunately, you get that luxury in college but not in the nfl. he needs to throw the ball before the receiver is open and because he doesn't appear to trust his arm, he goes to his rb/te who will be open more frequently. maybe all those muscles make his throw unreliable, i don't know but it just doesn't look like he knows where the ball will end up if he throws more than 10 yards. all those deep passes were all well into the sideline except for one that was underthrown to edwards.
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if he cant get it straight within game 7 i think we need to start looking elsewhere.
You know, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm seeing more of this than I am the "start DA" stuff.
And I don't believe I ever said that either.
I'm just frustrated with Quinn's performance. He needs some games, absolutely. But, he needs to improve each game.
He needs to throw to wr's as well......I don't for a minute believe that they were covered all day as some have said.
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Today was the first real test for Quinn. He had a real training camp, he got plenty of reps with the first offense, he got some solid play from the offensive line and the running game. So what did we get?
toad...your funny.
You remind me of bus driver.
One game and Quinn is under the bus...lol.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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that's how we all feel. no one here has said DA should've played.
do i believe DA could've done as well if not better? yes. but it's quinn's time right now and he needs to do better. that fans here try so hard to take blame away from quinn shows the state of desperation we're in that we might have a qb. i'm just not willing to do that.
if he's not gonna use his wrs, let's just keep 7 tight ends and always run in a jumbo set.
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We have to see what Quinn is made of over a long period of time, we gain nothing from benching him, we don't have a better option behind him, no rook waiting in the wings. Our best bet is stick it out, and see what happens for a minimum of 10 games.
I'm pretty sure DA is a better option. And DA isn't the greatest of options.
If he plays like this for three more weeks, yank him.
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J/C
Ok, I've thought about it.....fire Mangini. fire Daboll. bench Quinn...cut Womack and St. Clair. Hell, cut all our rookies except Mack since they didn't play enough snaps. don't forget to cut Wright for missing the tackle on Peterson on his 64yd run or maybe we can get a 6th rounder for him.
Bring in a new coach this week....start DA or bring in Garcia (he's a FA afterall).
Of course, if they don't beat the Broncos, then fire them all....rinse and repeat each week until we get this thing turned around.
(note: all of the above should be read in extreme sarcasm font. settle down people. week1 was a horrible matchup. let's let this thing breathe a little, shall we)
#gmstrong
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I don't think it's a knee-jerk reaction at all to say that if he plays like he did yesterday for three more weeks to sit him down.
He looked like Charlie Frye yesterday. If he shows improvement in his struggles, than maybe it's a different story. But four weeks in a row of that? No, thank you.
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I was J/C on that post....your response wasn't the most extreme.
however, if Quinn is our guy, then I think you give him more than the first few games to prove himself.
#gmstrong
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Game 1 made me puke for about 4 hours straight .... so I'm ready to move on to game 2.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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here you go. hope you feel better after this.
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Really? Because it seems me that Eli was never benched. Anderson lost his job for turning the ball over like he was part of a points shaving scandal.
that is not PROOF. there are so many angles to this that is flat out stupid that it's just silly. manning can't be benched. they had no one else. further, they would never need to as they had a top ranked defense and a top rushing game. FURTHER, DA lost his spot for many reasons but not for the turnovers as he had 180 attempts before an int, something another poster here replied to you about yet you conveniently ignored. DA was benched because of public sentiment, rac's fear for his job security, and because we were playing a very poor broncos team. it was clearly the best situation to start quinn, particularly since the season was done and we needed to get quinn some game experience.
that part gives NO reason worth addressing.
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If you are syncing up their stats and using that as a guide, then we don't have much to talk about. Using a stat sheet will get you nowhere when comparing the two of them. Right now when the game is on the line, Anderson chokes and turns the ball over and is 100% incapable of running the offense in it's entirety.
you write crap blanket statements yet think you give valid points for discussion? seriously? sure, just throw the stats is for losers thing. that's fine. no one was looking at stats to begin with. all the complaints about quinn's performance had to do with the fact that he's inaccurate. no, not 60% inaccurate, but as in not being to hit his receivers in stride. as in throwing behind braylon on a slant. as in underthrowing braylon when he had man coverage and a step. as in overthrowing a diving braylon. these were all things people like you ripped DA for, yet when quinn does it, what? it's edwards' fault? please.
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Eli has drastically improved in this area over the past season and a half and is a field general, and I will bet you the bank he finishes well over 60% this season.
again, NOTHING here. ytown already addressed it so i don't even need to. you finally end with you willing to bet that eli is over 60%. so what? that does nothing to address my point. my point is DA's development mirrors eli but eli had 7 starts as a rookie and FOUR FULL SEASONS. that's 71 game starts. derek started 27 games. as a 6th round pick. and is mirroring him. which was my point.
hope you feel better now. i could care less about what you gossip about in your pms. keep thinking you made legit points. also keep ignoring the other posters who were kind enough to reply to your post with good points.
I'm glad you took the time to give a real response. This is how big kids talk.
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you're right. have fun back at the kids' table.
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I don't want Gini to yank Quinn yet...he deserve at least 4 or 5 more games before we can really gauge him.
(then later in the same post)
If Quinn looks the same next week, where do we go? Anderson?
At least you are consistent..  if Quinn looks the same next week then he is 1 game into the 4 or 5 you said he should get....
yebat' Putin
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We have to see what Quinn is made of over a long period of time, we gain nothing from benching him, we don't have a better option behind him, no rook waiting in the wings. Our best bet is stick it out, and see what happens for a minimum of 10 games.
I'm pretty sure DA is a better option. And DA isn't the greatest of options.
If he plays like this for three more weeks, yank him.
How about, no?
In 30 odd starts, Derek Anderson had a game that was better by QB Rating then Brady's 'stinker' performance only 12 times. And I don't wanna hear about 'junk time'. Pretty sure there's been plenty of junk time in most Browns games over the past decade.
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I don't want Gini to yank Quinn yet...he deserve at least 4 or 5 more games before we can really gauge him.
(then later in the same post)
If Quinn looks the same next week, where do we go? Anderson?
At least you are consistent.. if Quinn looks the same next week then he is 1 game into the 4 or 5 you said he should get....
He's going to start all year unless there's an injury to him. Why can't people accept that?
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He's going to start all year unless there's an injury to him. Why can't people accept that?
I don't know if he will.. I'm guessing he will at least start past the midpoint and then some... I'm also thinking that if Quinn is not the guy, then we are in the market for the guy... There is a reason DA couldn't beat out Frye and then couldn't beat out Quinn.. and it has nothing to do with all of the conspiracy theories that people like to talk about.... 2 sets of coaches have seen something that tells them that DA isn't the guy.
yebat' Putin
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In 30 odd starts, Derek Anderson
Really?
Wow .. let's see .... 3 in 2006 ..... 15 in 2007 ....and 9 last year. That's 27 ........ so where are the other 3 odd games?
It must be a mystery ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He's going to start all year unless there's an injury to him. Why can't people accept that?
I don't know if he will.. I'm guessing he will at least start past the midpoint and then some... I'm also thinking that if Quinn is not the guy, then we are in the market for the guy... There is a reason DA couldn't beat out Frye and then couldn't beat out Quinn.. and it has nothing to do with all of the conspiracy theories that people like to talk about.... 2 sets of coaches have seen something that tells them that DA isn't the guy.
I'm not so sure that this administration is 100% sold on Quinn. The decision basically came down to 1 td pass by Quinn. There is still a good chance that we will see #3 behind center again if Brady doesn't improve a lot in the next few games.
I also agree with the assessment that we will be looking for a qb in next year's draft. Neither QB will be here 3 years from now. Next year's QB class is too strong to not pick the the man you want to mold into your franchise QB.
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Way to address the meat of the post ytown...
yebat' Putin
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I usually just stalk the board, but I have to reply to this post, and how flawed QB rating can be. I know you said you don't want to hear it, but take out that "junk time" (which is definitely what it was) and Quinn's QB rating drops 30 points and his yards/attempt goes down to a league low 4.3. Plus, QB rating doesn't take into account stupid mistakes like throwing the ball backwards for a fumble. So please, don't use QB rating to try to prove Brady is better.
In fact, anyone trying to use stats to prove Quinn is better should have their head checked, because right now, Quinn's stats are awful.
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Stay a stalker.....we liked you better that way.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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He's going to start all year unless there's an injury to him. Why can't people accept that?
I don't know if he will.. I'm guessing he will at least start past the midpoint and then some... I'm also thinking that if Quinn is not the guy, then we are in the market for the guy... There is a reason DA couldn't beat out Frye and then couldn't beat out Quinn.. and it has nothing to do with all of the conspiracy theories that people like to talk about.... 2 sets of coaches have seen something that tells them that DA isn't the guy.
Trust me on this. This year is a lot like 2001 with Tim Couch in no matter what he did; it was about seeing what we had in him. He took nearly every snap in 2001. Unless Quinn is hurt he'll start all year long. That's just what I was told by some in the know. That comes down from the owner. Anything else is just wishful thinking.
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In 30 odd starts, Derek Anderson
Really?
Wow .. let's see .... 3 in 2006 ..... 15 in 2007 ....and 9 last year. That's 27 ........ so where are the other 3 odd games?
It must be a mystery ........
I was counting his sparkling rating in the 3 relief appearances he's had.
2006 vs KC
2007 vs Pittsburgh in opener
2008 vs Houston
So keep rolling and laughing. The only thing worth doing that over is Derek Anderson and the people who defend his brutal play.
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*supposed inside info*
Hey coachb, you where banned.
You don't really have to make up an imaginary friend to prove your point. It's pretty obvious that Quinn would start all year unless he really craters. He'll be fine.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Neither QB will be here 3 years from now. Next year's QB class is too strong to not pick the the man you want to mold into your franchise QB.
Ah, same thing was said before Quinn was drafted. Same problems will be there with a new draft pick, especially with our fan base. They'll want him replaced after we fail with the new guy (after 4 starts).
It took a long time and many mistakes to get us here. It didn't get this way overnight and its not going away overnight.
One guy in 1 game isn't going to bring us out of the abyss. The man who owns the team I know is high on Brady Quinn and he'll have to play a heck of a lot worse then he did this past Sunday to not be here next year. He'll never lose his job back to Anderson, that is a guaruntee. Anderson's ship has sailed here. Wait and see. Although I'd much rather see Derek then a new rookie draft pick. They'll be the same knocks in the pros on Mccoy/Bradford/"X" QB that there is on Quinn.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49 |
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*supposed inside info*
Hey coachb, you where banned.
You don't really have to make up an imaginary friend to prove your point. It's pretty obvious that Quinn would start all year unless he really craters. He'll be fine.
Not sure what you mean..... but why is something I was told as a fact (I have no reason to lie and don't like either QB better then the other) so frowned upon here?
I guess time will show the truth.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
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In 30 odd starts, Derek Anderson
Really?
Wow .. let's see .... 3 in 2006 ..... 15 in 2007 ....and 9 last year. That's 27 ........ so where are the other 3 odd games?
It must be a mystery ........
I was counting his sparkling rating in the 3 relief appearances he's had.
2006 vs KC
2007 vs Pittsburgh in opener
2008 vs Houston
So keep rolling and laughing. The only thing worth doing that over is Derek Anderson and the people who defend his brutal play.
To be fair, you said starts. By the way I was at the Houston game and Jesus at QB would have a hard time getting BE to catch in that game.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49 |
It takes time to develop a QB in this league. The Browns need to stand behind Brady and build around him. If they do that, in time he'll prove to be a very good QB for them and that position will no longer be a concern for our team or us as fans. We'll see what happens.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
*supposed inside info*
Hey coachb, you where banned.
You don't really have to make up an imaginary friend to prove your point. It's pretty obvious that Quinn would start all year unless he really craters. He'll be fine.
Not sure what you mean..... but why is something I was told as a fact (I have no reason to lie and don't like either QB better then the other) so frowned upon here?
I guess time will show the truth.
Ha, I misread your post. I thought you where claiming inside information. It's sort of a sore spot around here.
Sorry about that. Please accept my apology.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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