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Way to address the meat of the post ytown...
My response was as well thought out as the orignal post .....  Using data compiled at the end of a game when down by 20 with 1 minute left is valid .... if you are looking for a QB for your team and are planning on being down by 20 with 1 minute left frequently ........
I am departing this topic for now. I fully expect that Quinn will never become an upper level QB ...... but time will tell. I hope i am wrong, especially given the investment we've made in him, and the damage another lost year will do to this team and its chances of getting anyone with a hint of talent to sign here.
I look at Quinn and see Charlie Frye part Deux. That's not an era I wish tio return to. Like I said ... hopefully I'm wrong. We'll see.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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Way to address the meat of the post ytown...
My response was as well thought out as the orignal post ..... Using data compiled at the end of a game when down by 20 with 1 minute left is valid .... if you are looking for a QB for your team and are planning on being down by 20 with 1 minute left frequently ........
I am departing this topic for now. I fully expect that Quinn will never become an upper level QB ...... but time will tell. I hope i am wrong, especially given the investment we've made in him, and the damage another lost year will do to this team and its chances of getting anyone with a hint of talent to sign here.
I look at Quinn and see Charlie Frye part Deux. That's not an era I wish tio return to. Like I said ... hopefully I'm wrong. We'll see.
Was Charlie Frye a Heisman finalist? Was he a Johnny Unitas golden arm winner? C'mon now. No basis for a statement like that, absolutely none.
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More meaningless evidence, viewpoint:
After 4 starts, Quinn's QB rating is 68.
Here are some other quarterback's ratings after 4 starts:
Bradshaw - 0 TD/ 5 INTS - 33.7
Elway - 1 TD/4 INTS - 40.8
Kosar - 2 TD/4 INTS - 55.8
Steve Young - 2 TD/ 6 INTS - 57.3
Aikman - 1 TD/ 6 INTS - 29.8
If you are foolish enough to think we should get rid of Quinn now, obviously you would've given up on the other guys
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How many sat for 3 years learning?
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All Pro
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I could care less who is playing quarterback. In fact, I was thrilled when I learned that the Browns had drafted Thomas and Quinn back in the 07 draft. Bottom line though - I just want to win now. I've had enough waiting. And DA gives the Browns the best chance to win right now. You say it takes time to develop a QB. Let's take a look: DA started three game in his 2nd season, and put up mediocre numbers. (Sound familiar?) In his 3rd year, after a long preseason QB battle which took precious snaps away from him (sound familiar), DA started putting up ridiculous numbers in just his 4th start (albeit against the Bengals). However, he continued putting up good numbers the rest of the season, with a team many thought was the worst in the league at the beginning of the season and a defense that gave up 20ppg (hmm...that also sounds familiar). I'm tired of waiting. It's time to put up or shut up. If BQ (the most NFL ready QB in that draft  ) can't follow the progression of a 6th round QB with a bigger arm, he needs to go. I'm giving him a pass this week because the Vikings defense is great. However, if he falters against a week Broncos D (although it has an improved secondary) it will get very ugly. I'm not giving up on BQ yet (we have to see if he can improve), but my confidence is shaken. And that's not because Quinn played a bad game, it's because he played with the same flaws we saw last year (dink & dunk, too many passes to TE and RB). I'm looking for improvement next week.
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I don't want Gini to yank Quinn yet...he deserve at least 4 or 5 more games before we can really gauge him.
(then later in the same post)
If Quinn looks the same next week, where do we go? Anderson?
At least you are consistent..  if Quinn looks the same next week then he is 1 game into the 4 or 5 you said he should get....
DCDawg: that was a rhetorical question...it wasn't meant to be taken in that context.
what I meant was, "IF" Quinn looks the same or worse next week, we will find out if Mangini will pull the plug....as I said, I am not going to be in the corner of calling for Quinn's head yet
I may rag on him a bit in good fun, but I stated leave the kid in there
I I was Mangini...i would give Quinn all the rope he needs to hang himself or climb the mountain.....leave Quinn in there...
if we yank Quinn in the middle of the game, or bail on him after game two, it tells me two things:
1. Mangini has no faith in Quinn.
2. this front office is still a mess
I personally do not think Quinn is a NFL starter..I see him as a very good career backup, BUT I will be more than happy to let Brady play and prove me right or wrong(he will most likely prove me right)
Quinn threw only "3 passes" all game that were past the sticks...1 got INT and the other two were good awful ducks...it reminded me of Charlie Frye
I hope to the good Lord himself that I am wrong, but I seriously question if Quinn has the arm to win here...
The Vikings actually got a clue in the second half and just crowed the LOS and dared Quinn to beat them...the vikes would have never done that to Da because he would have carved them to pieces
Our running game will struggle until Quinn proves he can hit the 15-25 yard routes consistently...he looked scared to throw down field....
Maybe it was first game jitters on Quinn's part I don't know, I personally think we would look like even more of a diaster as a franchise if we yank Quinn after two games...even if we are losing its just bad form.
I was just being sarcastic about yanking him yesterday in good fun, It would be a total diaster to yank Quinn at this time...talk about a laughing stock.
BUT I will say...if Brady stinks it up badly next week...It wouldn't suprise me if Quinn's leash gets much shorter...he won't be benched after two bad games, But I would bet Mangini would make it know to Quinn that one more time and Im putting in Anderson..
you must remember...Mangini doesn't like to lose, and the man looked totally PO'ed at Quinn...towards the end of the game, Mangini wouldn't even look at him, thats how upset he was....
I think Quinn is safe right now...but I think if he does two more stinkers in a row he will be seriously trying Mangini's patience.
Quinn is not a rookie...he has had 2 years of bench and spot playing time...its inexcusable for him to play the way he did yesterday. To expect your OL to hold blocks for 7 seconds on every play in unrealistic...our Ol gave Quinn enough time on 7 out of 10 snaps....Quinn just for whatever reason did nothing with it. sure the right-side caved a few times, but look at how bad Cheeseburger was pressured for 3 and a half quarters against the Titans...he still managed a TD and he is constantly beat around on...
Ben has a worse OL then we do...if the Steelers had Joe Thomas and Steiny on their line they would be a modern day dynasty ALA san fran
I am just saying, our Ol played slightly above average,. they played good enough, our OL played well enough to get the job done, and that was a VERY winnable game for us.
Quinn single handly blew that game...if we had Trent Edwards, Sage Rosenfells, or even A.J Feeley, an average QB that can complete 12 to 15 yard passes...we would ahve won that game....
I just don't think Quinn is the right fit for this system we have here......the players we have here are better suited for the Rob Chudzinski "chuck the rock" type of ball, DA game
Quinn is a dink and dunker, he is a WCO guy, we are not running a full WCO here...we don't have the fast shifty receivers, and good pass catching TE like New england does...see Kevin Faulk and Ben Watson
I will say this....getting rid of Kellen Winslow was a big mistake if Mangini knew he was going with Quinn
Winslow is EXACTLY what Quinn needs here to be successful...Winslow is the best pass catching TE in footbal and made big plays here....if we had Winslow yesterday, Quinn may have well won that game...Winslow is a big time playmaker
our playmakers are at WR with Edwards, MoMass, Furrey, and Robo...Quinn needs playmakers at Te and a good pass catching back, and we don't have that.
I am not going to say Quinn is a total bum...I just don't think he fits here...DA has a better chance of getting the ball to our playmakers IE Edwards, MoMass, and Robo...thats all
I just hope to the good lord Quinn proves me wrong and plays well...even though I am a DA fan, I just want us to stick to one Qb for crying out loud...im sick of revolving QB here...
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As bad as it was to watch our offense play this past sunday... Quinn deserves two full seasons...
Teams give up on QB's too fast..
Would u... :
A) Have two subpar seasons, and then 10 years of supremacy
B) Have one subpar season, find another QB, have another subpar season, find another QB, have another subpar season... etc...
We have our QB.. We have our LT... We have our Center.. We have a decent WR in Braylon.. We just need two more pieces:
1)a MANBEAST at RB
2)a #1 WR
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How many sat for 3 years learning?
You learning playing the game not watching.
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How many sat for 3 years learning?
let me translate:
"I don't have much evidence or data to support my point....."
Anyways Quinn sat less then 2 years. Not three.
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edwards has done very well in the preseason and has shown every bit that he's going to be back to the 07 #1 receiver.
you're assuming sticking with quinn will give you option A whereas it's just as likely that it gives us option B.
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So if Quinn flops miserably this year, I'd like us to take Sam Bradford with our #1 pick in the draft.
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Five games or this season for that matter is not enough of a sample to evaluate a QB.
Maybe not for you and others, Bone, but it is for me when I factor in everything that Quinn was supposed to be coming out of college, combined with the fact this is his third year, not his first.
Hell, there are people that still think Frye could have been good long after we let him go. Same goes for Tim Couch.
I never saw the guy that so many thought so highly of in college. I didn't see him in limited action as a pro. I sure as Hell didn't see it on Sunday. So if I don't see it by mid-season, I don't think he's going to be anything more than a dink/dunker with poor accuracy.
This is more than about "just 4 starts" to me. This is his third year. He has to be good NOW. Not great, just GOOD. I fully expect young mistakes. I can live with those. I WON'T live with flutterballs, Garo's, and fifteen yard throws that aren't even close.
I'll tell ya what's comical though: The spin that says I'm closing the book on Quinn after one game. That's a defensive mechanism. Nothing more. Of course this isn't the first time that kind of tactic has ever been used to pump up a player or attempt to shoot down an opinion........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quinn deserves two full seasons.
Two years? Two years!?  If Quinn doesn't show improvement next week against a poor Denver defense, he will be on a short leash against Baltimore. Quinn will at least have until halftime of the Baltimore game, but if he is still stinking it up then, I fully expect to see DA in there second half.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Derek Anderson has 27 starts and 31 games under his belt over what is now 5 years in the league, and he STILL hasn't shown even remotely close to "average" NFL accuracy, yet you want to bench Brady in favor of him?
Yup.
If Quinn can't show more accuracy than Anderson, then I just assume go with the guy that has enough arm to make deep throws and has more experience. That'll at least keep defenses honest, because if this is the Quinn we're going to get going forward, no defense is going to bother to take deep drops. They'll just play closer to the LOS knowing that Quinn can't beat them deep.
If we get to mid-season and Quinn doesn't have solid accuracy, my wanting him benched won't be a vote of confidence in Anderson, it'll be a vote of NO confidence in Quinn. If all things are equal, I'd rather go with the innaccurate guy with the big arm and more experience than the guy with the softer arm and less experience.
That's very simple to understand. Quote:
No matter how you slice it, switching QBs mid-season makes the decision that we'll have to make at the END of the season (the one that will impact our future years down the road) incredibly difficult.
Really? The organization had seen enough to know that Couch was a bum to bench him, and a different regime had seen enough to know that Frye was a bum as well.
Simply put, if Quinn doesn't show legit accuracy by mid-season, we might as well just scrap him AND Anderson and get someone else.
I don't expect many people to agree with me. That's their choice. However, I'm not willing to give Quinn several years and tons of starts to learn accuracy. This is his third year, and numerous QB's throughout the history of the league showed excellent accuracy well-before their third year in the league. It's not at ALL too much to expect him to make accurate throws right NOW. What IS too much to expect is for perfect decision making. That's different than accuracy.
Quinn has time. But he doesn't have much.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Even though his accuracy on shorter throws leaves alot to be desired, at least Anderson has accuracy on intermediate and deep throws.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Simply put, if Quinn doesn't show legit accuracy by mid-season, we might as well just scrap him AND Anderson and get someone else.
I don't expect many people to agree with me. That's their choice. However, I'm not willing to give Quinn several years and tons of starts to learn accuracy. This is his third year, and numerous QB's throughout the history of the league showed excellent accuracy well-before their third year in the league. It's not at ALL too much to expect him to make accurate throws right NOW. What IS too much to expect is for perfect decision making. That's different than accuracy.
Quinn has time. But he doesn't have much.
I completely agree. If Quinn hasn't shown improvement by game 5 put Anderson in and at least we can debate if Jekyll or Hide is going to show up. The only good news is if Quinn tanks we should have a pretty good draft pick and a bunch of QB's coming out.
Guess I should start watching Texas, Sooners, Ole Miss, and BYU.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Quote:
Quote:
How many sat for 3 years learning?
let me translate:
"I don't have much evidence or data to support my point....."
Anyways Quinn sat less then 2 years. Not three.
You know what I meant.
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That's just what I was told by some in the know.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You and Toad are funny...totally a double standard...you wanna give Quinn five starts.....then go back to someone whos proven he cant do it?  Going back to DA gets us nowhere, sticking it out with Quinn gives us atleast a chance of finding a QB. He should get a minimum of 12 starts...I think he gets the whole season. We gotta ride him out, and see if he can improve. You guys have predetermined judgments on Quinn, thats beyond obvious. I've supported him starting, mainly because of how bad DA has been. I wanna see what the kid has, and any nut off the street knows it takes more than 5-8 games. Again total double standard here...alot of people waited and waited on DA to turn the corner, he didnt. But atleast we know, you gotta give Quinn the same time, and see if he can turn that corner or just flat show some improvement. All this over one game against a very good defense, with a horrid offensive setup, terrible play calling, and an overall bad day on the OL considering how bad the right side was? Your ready to cut ties after 5 games.....listen to yourselves...
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The only good news is if Quinn tanks we should have a pretty good draft pick
This is what I don't necessarily agree with. If DA would have had this defense in 07 the Browns could have won 12 or 13 games. This is why I hope the Browns make the switch this year before it gets too late. The defense this year is good enough to keep the Browns in games provided the offense can score. If the Browns can put up 24+ points a game, they will win their fair share of ball games. Also at least with DA, if the Browns go down by two scores they aren't out of it. Get down 14+ with the dink and dunk king at quarterback and the ball game is over.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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You and Toad are funny
I don't think you can say that Toad and me are coming from the same angle with this. He wants to give him until at least mid season, I want him out NOW.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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You and Toad are funny...totally a double standard...you wanna give Quinn five starts.....then go back to someone whos proven he cant do it?
Not my fault you can't read, Z.
I'd repeat myself, but if you didn't get the obviousness of it the first time, you won't get it a second time. BUT, if calling it a double-standard makes you feel better about your stance, enjoy yourself. That's what this board is for.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I've supported him starting, mainly because of how bad DA has been.
Pro Bowl quarterbacks who score touchdowns stink!
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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With threads like these, its no wonder Cleveland browns.com pulled the plug on the message board.
In a utopian world, all of our QBs will throw for 350 yards a game.
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NRTU Loki.
Let me make my case VERY CLEARLY.........I'm watching the Raiders game now. I see a guy in Russell that is NOT accurate. He's got time, he sets his feet, and when he throws...........God only knows where it's going. He's NEVER going to be accurate, and I wouldn't want him on my team. That's what I'm afraid of with Quinn, so if he doesn't show me that his reputation and previous results are the exception and not the norm, then it won't take me an entire season to realize he's a stiff.
It didn't take me long to know Couch was a bum, it didn't take me long to know that Frye was a bum, it didn't take me long to know many QB's were bums, and it won't take me long to know that Quinn is a good QB.......or a bum.
He has five more games, give or take, depending on circumstances. It won't take more than that for me to make a decision.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I remember that game vs Cincy when Derek just light up the Cincy Defense.He had a 5 TD game. Can anyone with a straight face say that Quinn could do the same thing? Is there anyone besides Diam who thinks Quinn could go out have a similar game? I certainly don't as it's not in his play style.
I concede that DA will have up and downs but we know he can stretch a defense, Quinn so far has shown he can't. At least DA gives us a chance to run the ball. With Quinn you can put 9 in the box cause Quinn can't throw it past 10 yards ACCURATELY .
Go Browns!!
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I think Quinn for the most part has shown accuracy while playing. Unfortunately yesterday he was garbage. Like others have said, it wasn't because of how good Minnesota was. it was just him sucking. I doubt he gives a repeat performance next week.
I am concern about all the dink and dunk passing. We have seen this repeatedly when he has played. i would love to blame it on the play calling but the voices in my head think otherwise.
#gmstrong
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I trust your assessment over Optimist Inc. Quinn has proven verrrry little as a professional football player. I find it concerning that it was reported he was horribly inaccurate this game on his own. He can't sling it accurately down the field, but if he is inaccurate on shorter throws, he's done and has no redemptive quality to being in the game. Looks like Tarzan, throws like Jane? Gotta love the Tarzan/Jane analogies in football. I am rooting for Quinn to be the guy, as I think us having to draft QB in the next draft will slow our development even more (we need a damn rush OLB, it's way past due), I just am a realist and if this continues so much as this first half vs. the Broncos.... ............ You know what I'm saying will need to be done.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Quote:
I've supported him starting, mainly because of how bad DA has been.
Pro Bowl quarterbacks who score touchdowns stink!
Replacement quarterbacks who score touchdowns and then stink up the Pro Bowl causing mass evacuation of the Hawaiian Islands stink worse...
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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I usually don’t say much (bite my tongue mostly) and when I do it’s probably too much. And the truth is most of it has already been said and said. But hell I have my thoughts too… The game plan was very vanilla; I believe it was an attempt to try to allow BQ to gain confidence. That back fired big time. I can’t help but to go back to what Vers used to say BQ’s teammates called him, “WILD THING”. He was very inaccurate, and very indecisive. And Oh BTW I’m not talking about the INT he threw, I’m talking in general. Not that every throw missed its mark but when he missed he missed really bad. I confess though to this point in time I believe this is the first time I saw him do it. Time will tell the true tail but I didn’t like what I saw. To bring perspective though I thought and think at this juncture, particularly when facing teams like the Vikings that DA affords us the best chance to win. Now hear me out. The truth is we stand little if any chance against the likes of the Vikings, were just not that good. Having said that how do you TRY to compete against a team that clearly has way more talent then you do? Simple; you go for the big play, and like it or not DA affords us a better chance for a big play then BQ. And when DA is hot he is as good a QB as there is in the NFL. We have all seen it, so we all know that it’s true. Yes he has days and days, but when it comes to teams like the Vikings you have to hit them hard and fast, because you’re just not going to grind it out, no way. We just don’t have the level of talent needed to impose our will on other teams. In fact the opposite is true. Some things I dismiss out of hand. BQ hand plenty of reps with the first team. This does not define him as a QB, it’s but ONE bad game. I hope he gets better, I believe he will get better. But then again what I saw can’t get worst, now can it?? I think BQ would be a great QB on a team with a great defense that only requires a QB that will manage the game. If he is placed in a situation like the one he is in here in Cleveland and he is being counted on to win games he will fall flat on his face. Sorry I have always seen this entire situation just like that. To little thought in MO has been given to the entire team concept. Our defense has sucked for, well for years. They are not going to win games for us. In fact more then likely they will cost us games. That leaves the offense to carry the load. And that means we need a QB that can stretch the field and hit home runs, and I just don’t see BQ as being that GUY, never have. Hey that’s me though and by no stretch does that mean I don’t support BQ, I just don’t think he is a good fit for the current Browns team. Sorry, now I will go back to biting my tongue….  JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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I agree.
Quinn isn't going to get much love if he doesn't play as well as the last guy.
He won't get it if he plays equal to or marginally better for that matter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It didn't take me long to know Couch was a bum, it didn't take me long to know that Frye was a bum, it didn't take me long to know many QB's were bums, and it won't take me long to know that Quinn is a good QB.......or a bum.
This is something that when I say it , people really get ticked..which I could care less...I've seen enough ball (played ball)in my day to be able to evaluate players.. and without laying the blame on the supporting cast...it doesn't take long to see the skills a player has minus experience,..and one big thing I hammer QB's on is accuracy..if you are airing the ball all over the place , anywhere but where the reciever can make the catch without always having to adjust to the throws, you suck..now a errant throw is going to occur..but when you have time and still can't get it there..there's a problem..
Now Quinn gets his time to bounce back improve on his game..if he doesn't, the Browns will look for a QB next offseason..something I hope they don't have to do..
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You just described Anderson perfectly. Let's hope Quinn isn't like him or we are screwed.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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That's who I thought he was talking about. DA, I mean. 
Last edited by lampdogg; 09/15/09 08:29 AM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I described DA two years ago when I saw we picked him up and yes he fits the shoe...
Now here's a thought ..when we saw BQ last year and this preseason did he look like he did Sunday?
No..so what happened...is that finger fully healed????
Or did dude get rattled so bad he lost composure?
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Are people really posting about benching Quinn in favor of Anderson due to accuracy issues?
Really? Accuracy issues makes DA a "better" option?
Unbelieveable.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Have you checked their career comp %? And don't you think the guy averaging fewer yards per completion should have the higher completion %?
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-jc-
No, there is no mistake. Brady needs to show us what he has for an entire season. Anderson had his chance and shown he doesn't have it. If Brady looks horrible the whole year then we draft another QB next year and I'll be sporting a Colt McCoy signature.
I know there are many issues with this team but we do need to get the QB position fixed. Give Brady a chance to see if he can rebound. I've seen many QB's that have had bad games.
Last night durring the Pats vs Bills game they talked about the last time the Bills beat the Tom Brady. It was Toms first game against the Bills and he threw 4 ints and the Pats were shut out. Tom Brady hasn't lost to them since.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Have you checked their career comp %? And don't you think the guy averaging fewer yards per completion should have the higher completion %?
Four games is not a large body of work.
gmstrong -----------------
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Have you checked their career comp %? And don't you think the guy averaging fewer yards per completion should have the higher completion %?
Not nessesarily.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Maybe Mangini and Co. made a
mistake at QB....
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