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those rookie-WRs (add Murphy to the list with "hero" Russell throwing to him) actually WERE on the field, Robo and Massa WERE NOT...
That isn't what I took from your post, so you're right, I may have missed the point 
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makes sense, doesn't it?
I intentionally didn't post the sentences leading up to that summary to save space and time, since I DO understand what you're saying.
I think it's telling that we didn't give our WR's much time on the field, though I think it leads back to my initial feelings during the game that Daboll didn't trust Quinn. When you're trying to protect your QB, you give him TE's and short routes, not WR's and longer ones.
Leading to a question asked by Timothy, I wasn't at the game, and didn't focus on the WR's going downfield. I would say that there isn't a person alive that knows and can say for sure that WR's on any team are getting open downfield because the camera's don't allow it.
Sorry Django, I know I'm digressing your point. I think it's less about our WR's than it is about Daboll and the offensive gameplan he put in place. Hell, it could be possible neither guy is any good. However, without seeing them run routes or letting Quinn try and get them the ball, we simply don't know.
What I do know is that Edwards is a big-play receiver, and he was thrown to 5 times and had one reception. To me, that's more telling than anything. It tells me that Daboll is willing to let Quinn try and get him the ball, but isn't yet willing to push the envelope much further than that, which is why we had so many throws to the TE's and had so many active.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It looked to me that the TE's and shorter guys were the primaries. Again, I think it's a case of Daboll not trusting Quinn. That's probably a combination of playing the Vikings, Quinn being a younger QB, and his arm not being exceptionally accurate downfield.
I was at the game Sunday and it looked like the Vikes spent almost the entire game with their two safeties deep in a cover-2 zone. This is the way they play and they are very good at it. I didn't see much available in the intermediate to deep zones all afternoon. The Vikes had those areas pretty clogged up.
I think it is just as likely that BQ saw that and was TRYING to take what the defense was giving him. In fact, the play that BE made that sick grab (that didn't count because he was out of bounds before touching the ball) was one of the FEW times I saw BE singled-up on a Vikes' DB all day. Now, it wasn't a great throw and BE was actually pretty well covered on the play, but it looked to me that BQ saw the 1-1 and tried to take advantage of it.
BQ didn't have a good day. No doubt about it. However, I'm willing to give BQ the same number of starts DA got to prove he's the better QB (or not). There is a HUGE difference between experience gained sitting on the sidelines while "learning" and that which is gained by starting and playing in games that count. I'm really surprised by some folks who can't (or just won't) see that.
I've said this before: my biggest concern is that, in reality, we have two average QBs and neither of them will ever be much more than what they are now. If BQ turns out to be no better (or worse) than DA, then I think we'll be looking for a QB (again) in the 2010 draft. ... and won't THAT be fun if 2010 ends up being an uncapped year! 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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.......trying not to turn this into a QB thread....... 
I would fully expect the Vikes to be in a deep cover-2 shell all day. However, that's a zone-read so there would have been holes in those zones. The problem is that TE's aren't going to get far into those zones unless they are running seems. I was far more focused on watching Quinn and enjoying the game than I was analyzing it. I can't analyze a game unless I have it taped, and I don't have NFL ticket.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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1st String
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id rather not have to watch him get rag-dolled all night. heidens the pass catcher, royal is a blocker. either we make a 2-TE set the staple formation (with royal helping st.clair) or we best be making some trades.
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The Vikes secondary wasn't worried about Cribbs as a wideout..and until he makes some strides in showing he can run the routes precisely and make catches it will handicap the pssing game..I'd rather have a natural wideout in there and use him as a third or slot reciever..
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'That's what I have been saying !
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Sit Braylon, Play Momass and & Robo, get Furry in there, use the next few weeks to build chemistry between Quinn & the rookie WRs. Enough of the Cribbs @ #2 experiment. He ain't it. Braylon isn't a #1 either. The future here at WR, (at least for now,) are Momass & Robo. It sure ain't Edwards & Cribbs. I love Cribbs, all for paying the man more money, but a #2 WR he is not. Edwards & Cribbs at 1 & 2 is detrimental to the team. Isn't that what it's all about? The team? JMHO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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Sit Braylon
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They worked Furrey in all preseason..use him..use Mass..thats the only way we'll find out if these guys were worth picking..and please don't anyone tell me ya can't use Mass cuze he's a rookie..
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Legend
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You know, I was a little confused by the fact that MoMass got so much playing time during the preseason, yet he didn't receive much at all yesterday. I think BE can be our true no. 1, and maybe Cribbs can be our no. 2 (still to be seen), but we have to have enough different sets on offense that we switch our WRs around every once in a while.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i think outside of edwards, they rotated the wrs anyways. that said, no one is going to respect any of our receivers if the balls aren't going to them anyways.
i'm betting in another 4-5 games, it'll be edwards, momass, furrey, cribbs, robo.
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The recievers were not used hardly at all in any combinations....the TE was the target ..but they need to open this up agasint the Broncs.
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i think outside of edwards, they rotated the wrs anyways. that said, no one is going to respect any of our receivers if the balls aren't going to them anyways.
i'm betting in another 4-5 games, it'll be edwards, momass, furrey, cribbs, robo.
Our WRs were not getting open throughout the game...MN took that away all day.
That does not make anything you said incorrect...however, many people who were at the game - myself included - clearly saw that the Cover 2 was keeping our WRs under wraps. The "deep" ball was not an option due to pressure.
BQ tried to take what the defense gave him. Simple as that.
Simply put, we do not have a #1 WR...and our newly anointed #2 might be our best player...but he's not a #2 WR. The guys we have can be shut down by a great team like MN...it will happen again.
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Sit Braylon
You don't agree?  Bring him back when he earns the #2 spot. Or should I say "if".
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Better yet...trade him to AZ...for Boldin
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Legend
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Not a Royal fan ... Would like to see Rucker get some time ..
Before you jump all over me,, I didn't get to see the game (except for our scoring drive at the end)
I read on here that Rucker dropped several passes.. is that not correct?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Royal dropped several passes, Daman, not Rucker.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Royal dropped several passes, Daman, not Rucker.
Ok, I was told it was rucker.. I get it now
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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.......trying not to turn this into a QB thread.......
I would fully expect the Vikes to be in a deep cover-2 shell all day. However, that's a zone-read so there would have been holes in those zones. The problem is that TE's aren't going to get far into those zones unless they are running seems. I was far more focused on watching Quinn and enjoying the game than I was analyzing it. I can't analyze a game unless I have it taped, and I don't have NFL ticket.
I don't have NFL ticket either but I do have Direct TV. After each week of football they show all the games as "Shorts" All plays, no commercials or time outs.
When I watched our "Short" The game looked so much difference. All the 20 something completions looked to be spot on target and but for two plays, the missed route by Braylon and the duck Brady put on the ground , I thought it was close. Those two turnovers cost more than anything else. It put the defense back on the field and stopped all our momentum.
I think we need to start a collection for Toad to get him in the 21st Century.. Rabbits ears have been out of favor for some time now. 
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Practice Squad
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Sit Braylon, Play Momass and & Robo, get Furry in there, use the next few weeks to build chemistry between Quinn & the rookie WRs. Enough of the Cribbs @ #2 experiment. He ain't it. Braylon isn't a #1 either. The future here at WR, (at least for now,) are Momass & Robo. It sure ain't Edwards & Cribbs. I love Cribbs, all for paying the man more money, but a #2 WR he is not. Edwards & Cribbs at 1 & 2 is detrimental to the team. Isn't that what it's all about? The team? JMHO.
Why is playing Edwards detrimental to the team? Why would they throw in the towel after one week and play two rookies and sit a guy who has more TD catches in his career than the rest of the Browns WR's combined?
What happened last year was last year..this is now. The guy may be a bit of a prima but he plays hard. No one can deny that. He doesn't take plays off and he is always looking for a block down field. People can be extra critical of him to try and protect the QB who couldn't get BE the ball alllllll day and had a verrrrrrry off day in terms of accuracy but throwing BE on the pine isn't going to help that. Two rook's arent going to fix anything.
Stop worrying about BE not being here next year, stop worrying about what happened last year with him. He can help this team win now, two rooks can't. Atleast not with BE on the sideline watching them.
As usual after every browns loss there is always goat. Since DA is on the bench its BE.
It was collective loss. They were out coached, and out played. Keep in mind Mangini has to change an entire culture of undisciplined players and has a rookie OC and a QB making his 5th start this Sunday.
I will however agree though seeing Cribbs split out doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in me, teams will be doubling BE all season unless the Browns can find a legit # 2. I'm all for experimenting at the #2 wr or bringing in someone ala Hank Baskett if he gets cut, or Matt Jones, or Toomer, anyone, to serve as the # 2 to keep Furrey in the slot and help Bring Mass and Robo along.
But my point is...Sitting Edwards DOES not help this team. Quinn is the guy, will be the guy barring injury and he needs to work on some chemistry with BE and BE can be the absolute biggest confidence builder for Quinn there is.
Last edited by Focker994; 09/15/09 05:50 PM.
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I do believe Baskett was released by the Eagles. However, I'd rather see one of our guys step into the no. 2 role. But, if a guy like Baskett can help us this year while our guys grow into it, I'll take it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Quote:
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Sit Braylon
You don't agree? Bring him back when he earns the #2 spot. Or should I say "if".
Can't really say I agree with benching the best offensive weapon on an anemic offense, no.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
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Sit Braylon
You don't agree? Bring him back when he earns the #2 spot. Or should I say "if".
I have a better idea, let's bench him when somebody else earns the #1 and #2 spot in front of him...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Our WRs were not getting open throughout the game...MN took that away all day.
That does not make anything you said incorrect...however, many people who were at the game - myself included - clearly saw that the Cover 2 was keeping our WRs under wraps. The "deep" ball was not an option due to pressure.
BQ tried to take what the defense gave him. Simple as that.
I was not at the game. TV coverage is pretty good though, plus on tv you get to see replays.
I just can't fathom that our wide receivers were covered all day. I just can't believe it. There was only the one opportunity to throw the ball deep? To Edwards? Only one?
Huh uh. Don't believe it. Brady did not have all day to throw, I'll grant that, absolutely. But you're telling me a 15 yd. route wasn't open all day? Not from any receiver? The vikings must have some of the best d backs ever.
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I don't have NFL ticket either but I do have Direct TV. After each week of football they show all the games as "Shorts" All plays, no commercials or time outs.
they also gave NFL ticket away for free this past weekend
I thought NFL network only showed 4 games per week as these "shorts"...are they expanding that or is this on another DirecTv channel. Thanks.
#gmstrong
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Ok,
I am starting to see what Toad is selling with Daboll's lack of confidence. If everyone in the stands saw the cover 2, and I am a novice, where were the adjustments by daboll? I am not sure if a seam route, or using a screen with the aggressive pass rush would have helped gain yardage, and tried to dictate to the defense, but we seemed to be letting the defense dictate the game to us.
I also agree on sitting BE. Let's face it the chances are slim that he will be here next year, and this is a year of discovery, to find out just what we have. That being the case why not put Mo & Robo in, and open the playbook up a bit? I think it is better to use this year to let those rookies get some experience, cause lets face it if watching football helped in the experience area, I am sure a bunch of those involved in this board would be pro bowl recievers, qbs, dbs, etc, etc. You can only reach your potential by doing, and quite frankly I am tired of what BE is doing....
I was fortunate enough to watch the game on tv, and was actually feeling good... for the first half.
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Legend
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What is it that BE did? He ran a wrong route.......kind of a habit for him, but what else did he do wrong?
Why are we "sick" of BE already this year?
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What is it that BE did? He ran a wrong route.......kind of a habit for him, but what else did he do wrong?
Why are we "sick" of BE already this year?
I think the expectation is this is a contract year for him, and if Sunday was any indication of the type of contract he is looking for then I think I could afford him on my team...
For me it has to do with finding out what the new WRs bring to the table, just like they are doing with Quinn trying to see just what kind of football player he is, how will they develop, how will they handle the adversity and challenges of a NFL season.
At least that is my take.
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All Pro
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Leave it to Browns fans to want BE benched. I hope that is a minority saying this garbage. Most teams would love to have BE on their team. It's one game people.....gimme a break!
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Leave it to Browns fans to want BE benched. I hope that is a minority saying this garbage. Most teams would love to have BE on their team. It's one game people.....gimme a break!
I was as hard on BE last year as probably anyone. I'm still waiting to hear exactly what he did wrong this year to deserve to be benched already.
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I don't have NFL ticket either but I do have Direct TV. After each week of football they show all the games as "Shorts" All plays, no commercials or time outs.
they also gave NFL ticket away for free this past weekend
I thought NFL network only showed 4 games per week as these "shorts"...are they expanding that or is this on another DirecTv channel. Thanks.
Other channels.. in the 700 range.
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I have heard that he refused to block for Furrey (well, I saw it mentioned on here a few times). Can anyone explain that to me?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I have heard that he refused to block for Furrey (well, I saw it mentioned on here a few times). Can anyone explain that to me?
On the garbage drive Furrey caught a Quinn pass underneath middle-right of the field....BE was at the right sideline and when Furrey ran his way he was pretending to block the DB at best...he gave a ... there because the agme was already lost...or he mentally in the showers already
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I have heard that he refused to block for Furrey (well, I saw it mentioned on here a few times). Can anyone explain that to me?
On the garbage drive Furrey caught a Quinn pass underneath middle-right of the field....BE was at the right sideline and when Furrey ran his way he was pretending to block the DB at best...he gave a ... there because the agme was already lost...or he mentally in the showers already
I thought I saw someone give a pretend block, I didn't realize it was BE... does he know he is in a contract year?
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j/c www.KFFL.comNFL | Several teams have shown interest in Baskett Comment (0) Tweet me! Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:08:00 -0700 Aaron Wilson, of the National Football Post, reports several teams contact the Philadelphia Eagles about trading for WR Hank Baskett, who was released Tuesday, Sept. 15. The Tennessee Titans, Chicago Bears, St. Louis Rams, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Kansas City Chiefs were some of the teams that had shown interest in Baskett, according to a league source.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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2nd String
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j/c
www.KFFL.com
NFL | Several teams have shown interest in Baskett
Comment (0) Tweet me!
Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:08:00 -0700
Aaron Wilson, of the National Football Post, reports several teams contact the Philadelphia Eagles about trading for WR Hank Baskett, who was released Tuesday, Sept. 15. The Tennessee Titans, Chicago Bears, St. Louis Rams, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Kansas City Chiefs were some of the teams that had shown interest in Baskett, according to a league source.
That pretty much says a lot of what Mangini and Company think of our current state of WR's.
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So several teams contacted them about trading for the guy, and they release him?
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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His wife is hot. Let's bring him on.
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So several teams contacted them about trading for the guy, and they release him?
They had to make room for Garcia.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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WR's are a dime-a-dozen,...we do not have an "offensive" offensive line. It's getting there, but it is as glaring a weakness as some folks present it is at Ohio State. You CANNOT settle for field goals in football. Moving the ball at the key point in the game means having a great O-Line.
One that can run block, and pass protect. Then the QB (whoever) can do his job. MoMass, Cribbs, Furrey, Biskie and Edwards at New England with their run game and Brady, eat the rest of the NFL for breakfast.
But on point, Cribbs is not a #2 -- he might develop into one, but that will be up to the development of the O-Line.
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