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IDC who the QB is, nobody is gonna have a fighting chance with the current OL. They are as bad now as anytime since 99. We have a good left side, yes, but the right side is so bad that it cripples any chance this offense will.
St. Claire is probably the worst RT i've seen play over an extended period of time, hes 10x worse than Shaffers worst day as a Brown. Mack isnt cutting it at center, the bad snaps, poor run blocking...hes not playing well at all.
Time to move Steiny to RT, Mack to LG, Fraley back to center and have Hangy back to RG when hes healthy.
We are out of options, poor planning and drafting this offseason has got us here. We have no other RT options, any hope of our offense doing anything with either QB is going to come from us blowing up the OL. Coaching shoulda seen this disaster coming, they didnt, here we are.
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I do like the idea of getting Fraley back in there at C and moving Mack.
I mean, it can't get any worse.
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All Pro
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As pitiful as this may sound but I think Anderson would have driven down the field early on with this same line. I saw the worst pro football game by a QB today with Quinn at the helm. Early on there was some time in the pocket but Quinn threw to the DT instead. I saw one pass that almost hit the DT in the balls when he was untouched. How does an NFL QB do that??
I hated Anderson last season but he is our best chance at being somewhat competitive. Quinn just plain out sucks.
Last edited by MyDawgsBite; 09/20/09 11:35 PM.
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Isn't Jon Jenson Available? Does he have anything left? Anything for right tackle out there at all? Trade to get Shaffer back 
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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That line sucks horribly.
St. Clair is absolutely horrible.
Somebody in free agency has to be better. Even an old washed up vet has to be better than St. Clair!
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Mack should only get better with experience. I don't think he has been that bad so far. He is not getting much help on his right side that is for sure.
St. Claire has got to be replaced, and hopefully Mangini realizes that, hopefully they give that guy they brought in from New England a shot (don't remember his name but they signed him just last week when Williams was released).
Anything has got to be better than St. Claire. Good heavens the guy was getting pushed around. I watched Dumervil rush Joe Thomas later in the fourth quarter, and Thomas made Dumervil look like a middle school defensive end trying to rush him.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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j/c
I bet Jon Runyan wouldn't mind getting paid a few bucks to help shore up our RT spot...
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What has been sad this year is that we are awful up front. When we can't convert on third-and-1, or third-and-short, or when we elect to go Wildcat inside the 5 yard line----that tells me that we have No Faith in our OL.
None.
And that is scary. I don't understand it at all. Its like---we know where the run is headed right? And the defense doesn't know---and yet we can get no push whatsoever. Why is that?
Supposedly our left side is good--but I am really doubting that, cuz if it was---then we could run that way with some success.
We don't.
I really don't see us having any success this year, and I really don't get it?
How can we be that bad?
It could be that we telegraph all our freaking runs, or that even our good Linemen are more suited for pass-blocking. If either one of those is the case---then how is Mangini going to replace damn near the entire line to suit his Power Running fantasy with any kind of timeliness? And who do we need blocking to be able to run at will on defenses assuming they can read all our running plays from the get?
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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If I am not mistaken, Mack can play guard, or has in college . . I read reports where some scouts think he can play guard. I don't know if it would hurt his development as a future center for the team if he played at least one year at right guard with Fraley back at center.
That of course doesn't help us at RT, but we could get anyone out of the stands at CBS to play that spot and do it just as well.
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Practice Squad
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One word.....Pashos
Oh wait...the niners picked him up within hours...we had an open spot on the roster too!!!
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This is what happens when you patch your offensive line with another team's scraps. Why Mangini thought that a right side of Womack (who is ALWAYS hurt) and St. Clair (who got cut from a team where OL isn't exactly a strength) would hold up doesn't make any sense. If he knew he was dumping Shaffer and that Tucker was pretty much done, why he didn't draft Oher instead of Mack is beyond me. I know you can't patch all your holes every year but drafting 2 WR when your line is this bad is pretty inexcusable.
We're... we're good?
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Legend
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Quote:
If I am not mistaken, Mack can play guard, or has in college . . I read reports where some scouts think he can play guard. I don't know if it would hurt his development as a future center for the team if he played at least one year at right guard with Fraley back at center.
That of course doesn't help us at RT, but we could get anyone out of the stands at CBS to play that spot and do it just as well.
ANY help on the right side would "help." It would not destroy Mack to move over one hole,...
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This isn't about the QB..the right side of the line is non-existant..no RG/RT...St.Clair is as bad as any RT I have seen in a while..he has no lateral movement cannot bend and and no power in his frame..
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I have a feeling were gonna see some roster moves this week from Mangini.
The one thing I like about Mangini is he ant afraid to make a move, were RAC stayed with a guy way to long.
Were gonna see a few players let go.
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Legend
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St. Claire should be let go ASAP...he is the worst RT we've ever started
Mack is a disappointment. I focused on him, and he sure doesn't look like a 1st round pick to me (plus we all know about his shotgun snaps ugh)
Our line is bad...very bad
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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Quote:
St. Claire is probably the worst RT i've seen play over an extended period of time
St. Claire = 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Its not like there are many off-team options for the line..... If anything he can rearrange, that might help. I would consider sliding Mack out to Guard and take the mental aspect (mostly) out of the game for him. I think he is thinking too much and he is struggling with basics. He is a good player..... he just wasn't ready. As much ability as a player has, it will never come to fruition before the mental and physical are on the same page. As a center he is the "center" of the line, he has to be solid and sure of his calls and his play. Right now he sets the tone for the line. I think it would be beneficial to play Hank at center, Mack at guard, or even Hank at guard and he can make the adjustments. Mack can learn from Hanks calls, and how he see's things, and he can better focus on his basics.... JMO. Obviously, it probably will never happen.  That's just not how the NFL works........
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Quote:
and St. Clair (who got cut from a team where OL isn't exactly a strength)
He was offered a new contract by the Bears but chose to sign with us. Not that it makes much difference considering the way he's playing, but.....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
and St. Clair (who got cut from a team where OL isn't exactly a strength)
He was offered a new contract by the Bears but chose to sign with us. Not that it makes much difference considering the way he's playing, but.....
Just as Shaffer was offered a contract by us, right?  Wanting a guy on the cheap and thinking he's good enough to pay his salary to keep him on the roster reflect two very different opinions of a player.
We're... we're good?
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Sometimes the other thing that is hard to realize is that the line gets down in their stance ready for a certain play, put their hand on the ground...... then the play changes, they are out of position for the play but can't move since they have a hand on the ground......... bad news. It makes the line look bad, but geez, its tough. When they are all in there tight ready for one type of play, and it changes, you have someone rushing the outside when the QB shouldn't have been back there with the ball( based on the play they were lined up for)........ sack city.
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Quote:
Its not like there are many off-team options for the line.....
If anything he can rearrange, that might help. I would consider sliding Mack out to Guard and take the mental aspect (mostly) out of the game for him. I think he is thinking too much and he is struggling with basics. He is a good player..... he just wasn't ready. As much ability as a player has, it will never come to fruition before the mental and physical are on the same page. As a center he is the "center" of the line, he has to be solid and sure of his calls and his play. Right now he sets the tone for the line. I think it would be beneficial to play Hank at center, Mack at guard, or even Hank at guard and he can make the adjustments. Mack can learn from Hanks calls, and how he see's things, and he can better focus on his basics.... JMO. Obviously, it probably will never happen. That's just not how the NFL works........
Why wouldn't they at least consider it though? I know Mangini wants his 1st round pick to step in there and not miss a beat like he did with Mangold, but that's not an easy thing to do at center... seeing Mack play (and make mistakes like that snap Sunday), it's clear he still has some things to learn, so what's wrong with putting Hank at center and him at RG, giving him a less steep learning curve to help him out? Clearly something isn't working with how things are configured at the moment.
We're... we're good?
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I don't know. I mean I know what Hank is capable of, many people don't want to give him credit..... its not as easy as it looks. It is really hard to jump right in there are be spectacular. They made the choice to give the job to Mack, deal with the mistakes that were going to be made. I mean, why turn back now........ I just don't see it happening.
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We'll see if EM is like RAC, and waits 5 weeks to make any change. Or, he sees the problem and fixes it.
We won't have to worry about Quinn or DA if we keep fielding this OL, because both will be on IR at the seasons end.
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j/c
I bet Jon Runyan wouldn't mind getting paid a few bucks to help shore up our RT spot...
Runyan that's who I was trying to think of when I said Janson.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Legend
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They made the choice to give the job to Mack, deal with the mistakes that were going to be made. I mean, why turn back now........ I just don't see it happening.
High draft picks are not allowed to make mistakes.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and St. Clair (who got cut from a team where OL isn't exactly a strength)
He was offered a new contract by the Bears but chose to sign with us. Not that it makes much difference considering the way he's playing, but.....
Just as Shaffer was offered a contract by us, right? Wanting a guy on the cheap and thinking he's good enough to pay his salary to keep him on the roster reflect two very different opinions of a player.
St. Clair makes me miss Shaffer -- a lot.
And I *really* miss Tucker being out there at RT.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think most of us on this board like Hank. I think he looked bad at times last year because Hadnot at RG wasn't very good. Though Pork Chop isn't any better.
Danielle - Did Hank talk about the challenges of play changes related to lining up? If that is really the problem then it seems we are audibling into the wrong plays.
As an aside - we all saw St Claire get eaten up. but did anyone see a Rb going over their to help out or at least give a chip? What about lining the TE up on the right side? I think either of those options would help. Apparantly our coaches disagree with me.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Legend
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Legend
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And I *really* miss Tucker being out there at RT.
I told everybody before the season started that we were going to miss Ryan if he couldn't stay healthy this year. Looks like I am right yet again.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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A TE was lined up on the rightside most of the game,forcing Dumervil to the offensive leftside where Thomas did a good job on him.When we went 4-5 wide,that left St.Clair alone on Dumervil and we all saw the results.
St.Clair will limit what the offense will be able to do as long as he's in there.
The decision to go with Porkbutt and St.Clair was made well before the draft,and the Browns are going to have to live with the consequences of that decision.
BTW,the o-line was blown up last Mar.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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BC - i wasn't looking for this during the game so didn't notice. Apparantly we did put the TE over there and apparantly it did help. Guess we'll see a ;ot more of that in the future.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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All Pro
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Why not go after Runyon? He's still out there, and would have to be better than St.Clair. Maybe we don't have enough cash? I wonder if he'd come here if we stepped up and offered serious money. I'd way overpay him right now.
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nope, wouldn't come here.
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Darn, I was worried WE were that team he refused and not the raiders. Looks that way. Thanks Danielle.
Well I'll support whoever we have as long as they play hard. With Pork Chop hurt, and Hank on the right side maybe we'll see some success. Though I wish none of our players were hurt and all were playing well.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 09/22/09 02:28 PM.
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Rookie
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very interesting take. did you play OL in hs or college? you put it in perspective. defenses have advantages in that they can move around.
Go Browns!
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fraley was a very good vet with philly...he was a good pickup after the center fiasco in '06 when lecharles went down.
Go Browns!
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a Thought...when we first got Joe Thomas...it was a thought that had been kicked around when Shaffer wasnt an awful LT...that Joe Thomas could play RT.
What if we moved Joe Thomas to RT and let Steiny play LT because he's done it before?
Like if we were to shuffle the OL around... it would look best like this...
LT: Steinbach
LG: Mack
C: Fraley
RG: Hadnot
RT: Thomas
thats the first shuffle i would make. then we have bookends at tackle spots.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Move the best LT in the game to RT??????????
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well...i thought about that.
but he is better suited to play RT than Steinbach. If we have a great LT...it matters not if the other side is a sieve. If we have two good tackles (as i dont think Steinbach can play RT) then our line would solidify a lot more...
I understand the point of Joe Thomas is an amazing LT...true...but he would be very good at RT as well...and Steinbach could be very good at LT. Whereas...Steinbach wouldnt be at RT.
This is trading Amazing for very good...so that we can have very good elsewhere.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Blow the OL up, right now.
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