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Is it too much to ask for Mangini/Kokinis in one year or even 2 to clean up the damage Phil Savage left behind?
Outside of Joe Thomas,Savage missed on just about every draft pick and FA.
He left this team in worse shape than the team he inheirted from Butch Davis...
people can gripe all about Davis all they want,but the Browns never looked how they did yesterday vs the Bronco's under Davis....
Phil Savage makes Mat Millen look like A.J Davis.
as fars Mangini goes,he had Mark Sanchez right there at 5 and didn't pull the trigger.
Sanchez is light years ahead of Quinn and Anderson.
But no he takes a center that needs time to develop...
we could have signed a FA center.
he had ready to start players in RD 2,but instead selected 2 projects at WR.
bummer
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Riveting new thread. 
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I don't believe Savage left this team in a bad spot. He did swing and miss on some draft picks, but we still have Braylon Edwards, Joe Thomas, Brodney Pool, Eric Wright, Dqwell Jackson, Lawrence Vickers, who are all in my opinion good players. We also have some of his free agents/traded players on the team still in Eric Steinbech, and Shaun Rodgers.
He did a decent job setting this team up for success and that showed in 2007 when we exploded and went 10-6. We were all ready to believe this team was going in the right direction entering 2008 behind Savage. Then a mixture of injurys, poor coaching and a tough schedule lead to a poor 2008 season. Savage did not leave this team with junk players at every position.
We have a lot of talent at a handful of positions, we just lack overall depth and experience at some of the others.
I'm not trying to say Savage was great or anything but he was not as bad as your making him out to be. Mangini had the chance to bring in some big name free agents, and had the chance to draft some real play makers in the 2nd round that could have helped this team a ton more (Ray Malaluga went right after we picked in the 2nd round, Everette Brown, LeSean McCoy, William Beaty, all were available in the 2nd round when we took the players we took).
This team right now is not bad because of Savage. There was good reason to believe Quinn could be the future of this organization, can't really place the blame on him, yes some teams chose to let him slide but he was the best option at Quarterback that came out of that class. (At the time then)
Savage set us up for success that was evident with our 2007 season, like i said it just looks bad now because of our 2008 season and Manginis so far poor performance this season is making savage look even worse. He was not that bad, go back to the top of my post and read the list of good players he gave us.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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No...and as far as your evaluation of Savage: wrong. Mangini is mostly paying for his own incompetency....half this roster is already all his...and none of the guys he's brought in are above league average at their position, few are even average....the best players we have are in fact leftovers from Savage Mangini's hires: Barton Bowens Coleman Costanzo J.Davis Elam M.Floyd Francies Furrey Mack Maiava Massaquoi Mosley Peerman Poteat Ratliff Robiskie Royal StClair Trautwein Veikune Ventrone Womack Yates that's 24 players out of 53, 5 starters, 2 half starters, none above league average, starters rather old to boot....I'd trade all of them for Sanchez right now 
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your post scares me . . . it really does . . . it means Mangini is a poor talent evaluator and kokinis is along for the ride . . . we are in deep trouble if the younger ones . . .the draft picks . . . don't pan out . . .what's down the road is frightening.
And Lerner was enamored with him!?!
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Is it too much to ask for Mangini/Kokinis in one year or even 2 to clean up the damage Phil Savage left behind?
Yes, it is.
The reality that this is a rebuilding year has come crashing down on those that bought into the pre-season hype. While a natural happening, it is none-the-less demoralizing.
On one hand, Savage and company gave us Joe Thomas, Edwards, Stein, Jackson, Rogers, Wright, Anderson, etc.
On the other hand, he passed on QB's like Aaron Rodgers and Jason Campbell for guys such as Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn. Furthermore, while he did give us a few pieces, he also saddled us with a bunch of bums who aren't part of the answer, but were part of the problem.
So yes, it's too much to ask to have this thing turned around in one year. However, Mangini has made several STOOPID mistakes. He has to carry his own cross on that one.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You're evaluation may be proven correct in the future, but to make an assumption on a bunch of rookies after the second game is flawed.
You know it too. You just won't admit that you aren't giving the rooks time to grow and prove one way or another they are or aren't good players.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
You're evaluation may be proven correct in the future, but to make an assumption on a bunch of rookies after the second game is flawed.
You know it too. You just won't admit that you aren't giving the rooks time to grow and prove one way or another they are or aren't good players.
Agreed. None of them have hardly sniffed the field the first two games. As far as his veteran additions, none of have really made much impact thus far. Barton and Bowens have each made a few plays, but they like the rest of our defense wear down in the 4th quarter and thats when we get destroyed.
The rookies COULD pan out, but a lot of members of this board are impatient and don't want to wait because lets face it, most of us have been waiting for 10 years to see some good consistent football.
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most of us have been waiting for 10 years to see some good consistent football.
No excuse for that...to not see a cycle of good football in that span is a joke and falls on the organization as a whole.
As he hired Mangini will Lerner ever have the humility to toss him out the door should it become apparent he aint going to get it done?
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I'm of the opinion that while our team is still in the game, our defense has done alright. When the offense tanks and the game becomes out of reach, the defense folds and they get hammered.
That isn't a "they are on the field too long" thing, it's a "we can't win so we're losing our intensity and phoning in the effort" thing.
'Gini replaced marginal vets with marginal vets. We ran the ball well in limited opportunities the first game, and not well the second. St. Claire got abused by an excellent rusher and Quinn did jack-squat. So right now we look worse than we actually are.
Getting back to your question, Savage gave us some pieces but not a team. We got saddled with ludicrous bonus money paid to Anderson and Stallworth. Those players aren't contributing to this team, so some $10 million+ dollars that could have been spent on free agents is being wasted.
That's on Savage.
He gave us one linebacker when we need four. He gave us one corner when we need two. He gave us a marginal safety in Pool when we need two. He gave us Rogers and a bunch of rotational guys. He gave us Edwards and nobody else. Royal and Heiden are workman-like players, but not the kinds of guys that the iffy-tossing Quinn needs. He gave us a starting left side of the line, but left us with no center, right guard, or right tackle. He gave us Lewis and not much else at RB. He gave us a bad QB situation.
Savage gave us this mess. Mangini didn't do much in free agency. It's too soon to say his draft picks are failures. Mangini screwed up the QB situation as well as the WR situation. That's on him. There's plenty of blame to go around, but more of it is on Savage than it is on 'Gini.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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Quote:
I'm of the opinion that while our team is still in the game, our defense has done alright. When the offense tanks and the game becomes out of reach, the defense folds and they get hammered.
That isn't a "they are on the field too long" thing, it's a "we can't win so we're losing our intensity and phoning in the effort" thing.
'Gini replaced marginal vets with marginal vets. We ran the ball well in limited opportunities the first game, and not well the second. St. Claire got abused by an excellent rusher and Quinn did jack-squat. So right now we look worse than we actually are.
Getting back to your question, Savage gave us some pieces but not a team. We got saddled with ludicrous bonus money paid to Anderson and Stallworth. Those players aren't contributing to this team, so some $10 million+ dollars that could have been spent on free agents is being wasted.
That's on Savage.
He gave us one linebacker when we need four. He gave us one corner when we need two. He gave us a marginal safety in Pool when we need two. He gave us Rogers and a bunch of rotational guys. He gave us Edwards and nobody else. Royal and Heiden are workman-like players, but not the kinds of guys that the iffy-tossing Quinn needs. He gave us a starting left side of the line, but left us with no center, right guard, or right tackle. He gave us Lewis and not much else at RB. He gave us a bad QB situation.
Savage gave us this mess. Mangini didn't do much in free agency. It's too soon to say his draft picks are failures. Mangini screwed up the QB situation as well as the WR situation. That's on him. There's plenty of blame to go around, but more of it is on Savage than it is on 'Gini.
Ah, the voice of reason. That's no small thing in this crowd.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Outside of Joe Thomas,Savage missed on just about every draft pick and FA.
He left this team in worse shape than the team he inheirted from Butch Davis...
Actually that is so offbase it's pitiful..I have criticized Phil for the decisions he made but he brought in some talent..he hit some home runs but he often went for singles in the later rounds..
He left the team with far more talent than Botch could even fathom..
as fars Mangini goes,he had Mark Sanchez right there at 5 and didn't pull the trigger.
Let me get this straight...U expected Mangini to come in , see DA/Quinn and then say:''Ya know Kokinis..lets draft Sanchez..and toss both QB's aside..
That makes sense..I know some in here(including U ) would do it..but while it was tempting to ponder for a bit..Quinn needed to be given a chance to see what he has..oh I could imagine what would have happened had he traded BQ away without looking at him..
But no he takes a center that needs time to develop...
What..Sanchez won't take time to develop?
U think he's polished right now?
The only thing I would hammer Mangini on is how he drafted..he brought in complimentary players ..instead of impact players..we needed WR's...well go get the best one and then a possession reciever in FA..
Needed a 34 hammer LB well go get the best one on the board..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/21/09 02:26 PM.
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Are the Browns paying for Phil Savage's sins?
On top of The Lerner's, Carmen Policy's, Dwight Clark's and Butch Davis's.
Oh yeah, and Art Modell's.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Are the Browns paying for Phil Savage's sins?
On top of Al Lerner's, Carmen Policy's, Dwight Clark's and Butch Davis's.
Oh yeah, and Art Modell's.
Yup, yes sir,...!! This ain't just a Savage problem. It's a savage problem.
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Mark Sanchez is playing at a higher level than Mack is and at the most difficult position in football ala the QB....and in a media market where they will eat you alive.
Sanchez went out yesterday just beat a football team led by a HOF coach and QB.
What Sanchez has done in 2 games is more than I've seen from any Browns QB since '99.
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Sanchez has to go through the whole season like Mack and every other rookie so after two games I'm ain't jumping ship..
Mangold didn't light it up his first year...I'm giving Mack some games..
There's a been a bunch of rookie QB's who've done more than browns QB's..but U still side stepped my question..
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Sanchez went out yesterday just beat a football team led by a HOF coach and QB.
Good for him.. Here's the problem we are much closer to the talent level of Detroit than we are the Jets... so what has Matthew Stafford done?
yebat' Putin
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U won't get the answer U want because he'll say Sanchez is the guy we were in position to draft...he has yet to answer my question.
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Quote:
Savage gave us this mess. Mangini didn't do much in free agency. It's too soon to say his draft picks are failures. Mangini screwed up the QB situation as well as the WR situation. That's on him. There's plenty of blame to go around, but more of it is on Savage than it is on 'Gini.
I couldn't disagree more....Savage was far from perfect...but the same leftovers, 2 years younger and more inexperienced managed to win 10 games in 2007 (easy schedule, I know, but we have an easy one too this year and are healthy, no excuses...and 2 years ago we'd beat up this DEN team) and beat up the NYG on MNF last year in their only healthy game......so what has changed since then on Offense? HC/GM, OC, TE and QB...there are your problems
Coaching and organizational philosophy is HUGE in the NFL...this isn't MLB where a coach merely decides 5-10 games out of 162 by his actions....look no further than STL and MIA....STL drafts pretty good players..every year...but they have no plan/dont know wtf they are doing and cant catch a good coach, just like us....MIA was 1-15...in comes Parcells and Sparano and they win 11 and go to the PO (they never were that good....but they became a tough team to beat and still are)...in the NFL, if you're not READY and MOTIVATED to play, you get destroyed....we are ALREADY seeing glimpses of that in Mangini's first 2 games....that doesn`t bode well
On the rooks: Of course Im biased and it's opinion right now...but I have a pretty good track record of predicting prospects success in the NFL....and I know I didn't like ANY of our picks at the time they were made except the whole 6th round, which was good. It's self-confident opinion and early but I have a strong FAIL feeling and wouldn`t shout it out if I wasn't pretty sure....and the early "results" aren't calming me down.
This has nothing to do with "patience"...that's just a BS excuse when you see many onther 2nd rounders around the league active and contributing....there half a dozen rookie WRs that look more promising than ours right now and were drafted in round 4+....I thin it's just fair to compare those 2 with those guys, since they're all rooks and Robo and Massa after all were considered POLISHED....it was supposed to be their strength for crying out loud....they aren't raw speedsters, they were supposed to be "ready" poss-WR turtles that can catch and are smart and run routes....they should be contributing more than "raw speedsters" like Wallace in PIT or Johnnie Knox in CHI....they don't ...that's not impatience....it's just the painful truth...they are already behind supposed lesser talent on a lesser talented team....that is stinking to heaven
Veikune: It's funny how even smart posters keep saying now hat he's a "project" and "needs time"...BS....you don't draft projects in round 2...especially NOT if you're a rebuilding team with suspect talent....teams with set starters looking for high upside for the future can do that stuff and allow that luxury...not us: Veikune was Chaun Thompson all over again WITHOUT the pure athleticism...he hasn't even a real upside...the pick was incredibad and came at least a whole round or 2 too early....you just don't draft guys like that in round 2. Round 4+ you can take some flyers....but not on the freaking 1st day 
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I don't agree with you Toad This is NOT a rebuilding year we are 2 years removed a from a 10 win season We have a 1st rd QB that has set the Bench for 2 years groomed We have a Pro Bowl NT A Former Pro Bowl WR A solid ILB (Dqwell Jackson) A up and coming stud corner back(Eric Wright) a Franchise Left Tackle (Joe Thomas) a Above Average Left Guard in Steinbach That is not a team in rebuilding mode....if this is the case, then this team has been in rebuilding mode for 10 years. Django said it best, Parcells took a 1-15 Dolphins team to a AFC East Division title in 1 freaking year! A division with Farve and the Jets, and a Patriots team with a very good QB named Matt Cassel....Cassel would start on 27 teams in this league....sure he is not Tom Brady, but the kid is pretty darn close. Cassell will make the Pro Bowl with the Cheifs. The cupboard is not bare here, but im sick of this "Rebuilding" the team every year Mangini should have been told man up and win with what is here, or forget it...sure he can add a few guys. but he replaced 40% of the team and look at the results.... Mangini is a loser, he should be 1 and done...if we go 1-15, 2-14, even 3-13 he should be canned, period.... I agree with Django....the expansion/rebuilding excuse has worn out its welcome....its been 10 years....either get results, or get out...im sick of it this team is an embarrassment to the the very history of the Browns thanks Randy...stand up job buddy!
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wow......this thread is hard to read with all the stupidity flying around.
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We are paying for Randy Lerners, EM had no business getting complete control of an NFL team....NONE.
Phil Savage should have been given a chance to find his own HC, and see how that went. Typically you dont fire the GM after one coach fails, plus Phil did not pick RAC, Randy did.
I would have given Phil another go with Brian Billick or Rex Ryan here, Phil made some mistakes, but also brought in alot of talent in 3 years.
EM has done some very stupid things since he hired, our draft was all-time horrible, and now we are stuck with another dolt as an OC. We are losing because our owner has not a clue of what it takes to make a successful franchise.
We are stuck with this bunch for a long time, EM has done alot of his own stuff, his own roster turnover, his own decisions, it wasnt Phils fault he has done what hes done.
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Phil Savage should have been given a chance to find his own HC, and see how that went. Typically you dont fire the GM after one coach fails
Phil had his good and bad points.....but, he was fired because of a complete lack of professionalism. The Winslow situation that was followed up with the completely irresponsible email are reasons that Phil does not have a position in the NFL this season with our team or any other team.
#gmstrong
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I'll take it, ill take his stunts and Brian Billick or Rex Ryan over these jokes we have. Atleast Phil could draft somewhat, we blew 3 draft picks, in the top 50.
If not, we shoulda hired a president/gm/ceo....to decide what direction to go. Not Randy I dont give a crap Lerner.
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I was just making the point that Phil basically fired himself....he backed Randy into a corner with those antics and coupled with a losing season, that was that. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now...
we have no idea if we "blew 3 draft picks in the top50" yet....way too early.
Mack has shown some promise (haven't seen the Denver game yet)....MoMass looked good in preseason, he could develop as well.
Robo was the one I was lowest on at the draft and being inactive gamedays is not promising....however, even with that, it's 2 games into his rookie season...can't write him off yet.
ok....I'm done now.
#gmstrong
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
and Brian Billick
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My bad, why would we want a coach that actually has proven he can win at this level, and surround himself with good coaches.
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Quote:
I'll take it, ill take his stunts and Brian Billick or Rex Ryan over these jokes we have. Atleast Phil could draft somewhat, we blew 3 draft picks, in the top 50.
If not, we shoulda hired a president/gm/ceo....to decide what direction to go. Not Randy I dont give a crap Lerner.
How many games has it been?
Let's not write off this year's draft after two games.
I'm trying the wait and see approach. Although I would like to see our other WRs get on the field. It seems like the only one who can get seperation is Braylon. Furrey and Cribbs really just don't do it for me.
Watching this team lately does suck, we simply aren't good. Especially on offense. But why don't you relax (and not just you but all the other outraged posters on here), give it some time, and see how things develop. This means our rookies as well as the performance of our team as a whole.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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wow......this thread is hard to read with all the stupidity flying around.
Wait until after the Baltimore game. It'll be full-bloom stupid season then.
It's hard telling whose fault it will be then. My bet in on Quinn, Lerner, Mangini, and a Global Conspiracy of Knights Templar.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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J/C
Every coach, GM, or player that isn't with Cleveland any longer is a bum or did a terrible job. I thought Savage did a decent job. He did make some unprofessional decisions, but big deal, forgive and move on. He was still learning on the job. Fans need to understand that when we keep getting front office people and coaches who are fairly new to the job that a learning curve should be alloted. Cartman is the first head coach since the return that had NFL head coaching experience, granted I think he was a bad decision. We never give a regime a solid chance. I have a feeling that this one will get more of a chance than any other and that's scary if you ask me.
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I think it all starts at the top, that would put the finger on Randy. He hired Davis and let him pick his side kick. He hired Crennel and then got Savage to jump on board, a big mistake on his part. He picked Mangenious over Pioli and he brought his lackie along for the ride.  I just doesn't work that way in the NFL, you can't get the cart before the horse. This is the third time, so if it doesn't work, nobody should buy season tickets until he gets it right ! Otherwise we will be the laughing stock of the NFL.
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wow......this thread is hard to read with all the stupidity flying around.
This is a funny statement.
please allow me to explain.
See disclaimer below
PLEASE NOTE I WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF KEEPING ROMEO CRENNEL AS I AM A FAN AND DO NOT RUN THIS ORGANIZATION.
Even though I personally was not in favor of keeping Romeo Crennell, I would have never hired him in the first place. With that being said, He should have been given 2 more years and I will explain why below
look we won 10 games in 2007, and Randy Lerner gave both Phil and Romeo a 3 year extension.
He then turns around and fires them both less than a year after giving them a 3 year extension.
This makes Randy look like a clueless buffoon to ANYONE "outside" the Browns organization and to ANYONE who doesn't have Browns colored glasses on.
Look None of us run the franchise, Randy does...since he showed so much confidence in giving those guys a 3 year extensions, he should have kept them both for atleast 1 if not 2 more years.
Even if it didn't work out, it would show our owner and our Front Office have a sense and understand what "stability and confidence" is..
Randy should have said to "heck" with us "fans" and stayed the course with the men he so graciously gave a 3 year extension too. That 3 year extension was a message of confidence and stability we haven't had since we got here.
Like i said, you can go back to my old posts and see I did indeed call for Romeo's head, out of frustration, but I "Do not" run this franchise.....Randy does...and Randy made a mistake.
Look if I was President of this franchise, I would not have fired either RAc or Savage after giving them a 3 year extension...it makes you look like a moron and not even giving the guys a fair chance to live up to that extension, and it sends a message to the rest of the league that your an incompetent moron who can't be trusted.
As I said, I would have NEVER hired RAC, but if I walked into that organization I would not have fired them under those circumstances.
Now if they were in the last year of their contract, and had 2 bad years on that extension...probably, but the circumstances RAC and Savage were fired under make this organization and owner looks like complete buffoons
Even though I personally didn't agree with the RAC hiring, or the extension, Randy was the one that gave it to them, and he should have had the backbone to atleast give them into year 2 of that extension(this year) to have a chance to live up to that extension, and show some "stability, confidence, perserverence, and the ability to stya the course"
Even if it didn't work out, It would have sent a very good message to the league that we don't perform knee jerk reactions...signing a coach to a 3 year extension, and then firing him shortly after makes you look like a complete joke in the eyes of many
it is what it is, We probably got Eric Mangini because Eric Mangini is probably the only coach we could get that was intrested and willing to take the job.
There is a reason Schotenheimer, and Shannahan didn't even bother with an interview, and don't kid yourself if you don't think they were asked....coaches as Bill Cowher said are a very tight fraternity, To Marty and Shannahan(old school coaches) RAC comes from the same old school, they are all friends, and they seen how our Front Office treated him.
Firing him after giving him a 3 year extension is a slap in the face, an outright insult. Regardless if Randy paid RAC or not, its still an insult, Its not about the money, RAC even though I didn't like the hire, was a stand up guy and would not speak ill towards anyone in public, but don't kid yourself if you don't think RAC felt like he got the shaft
Especially considering he probably could have gone to the Dolphins after 2007 and went to coach under his buddy Parcells, who would have stayed the course with RAc regardless...I don't think Savage or anyone would have stopped RAc from going to Miami...but he felt the organization had faith in him by giving him that extension, and he wanted to honor his end of the agreement, and Randy reneged on that agreement.
There is no links to verify this, no links are needed...this is common sense
How would you feel if your employer gave you a "great evaluation", a raise, and told you you were doing a great job and awarded you with a raise and benefits, only to be fired a few months later?
you would be mad wouldn't you, Well that is exactly what happened with Romeo...romeo was stuck with players he didn't pick...Savage decided the 53 man roster, not romeo
We would have been better off keeping RAC, and hiring a GM RAC could work with, and riding it out two more years instead of tearing things apart.....
Even though i wasn't in favor of RAC, he was not treated fairly here, nor given a chance to succeed...Randy should have bit the bullet, shown some stability, and atleast tried to honor that 3 year extension in the sake of showing continuity, and respect
As i said, you watching in the coming years, palyers and coaches won't want to come here, even if we overpay...see Green Bay in the late 70's and 80's to understand what im talking about
Green Bay was known as purgatory and a place no one wanted to play...we are headed that way in a hurry
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Yea.. to give an extension to anyone.. you have faith in them, pretty much no matter what their output is..
Romeo and Savage weren't bad IMO.. It is to me all on the players.. Yes Romeo did make some mistakes when it came to managing his timeouts, challenges, etc, but I think he was a decent coach.
Savage did his best to bring talent to Cleveland. I think he did a fine job. Some picks were questionable... but that is going to happen with all organizations..
just clicking... I wish this board, the fans of the Browns would not be so quick to bash this organization, and instead just show TRUE support. This is hard to do given that we have been a tier-2 team for the longest, but still.. REPRESENT REGARDLESS!!
I live in Atlanta, and I hang my Cleveland Browns flag/banner outside every Sunday regardless of our record... I'm a fan.. and I'm PROUD to be a fan.
One day the orange/white/brown will hold that trophy high...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480 |
Quote:
How would you feel if your employer gave you a "great evaluation", a raise, and told you you were doing a great job and awarded you with a raise and benefits, only to be fired a few months later?
If you started doing a crappy job a year later, you'd be gone. Happens to CEO's (which is pretty much the equivalent of a HC in Football) quite often. They get praises sung when the stock soars and then the stock tanks and they are out the door.
The NFL, and these coaches fully understand it I would think, is a "what have you done for me lately" type of business. You win, you keep your job - and there is no waiting around. I don't necessarily agree with that, and would love some consistency too. I also agree with you that I would have never hired RAC; didn't like it at the time whatsoever.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
Romeo and Savage weren't bad IMO.. It is to me all on the players.. Yes Romeo did make some mistakes when it came to managing his timeouts, challenges, etc, but I think he was a decent coach.
Savage did his best to bring talent to Cleveland. I think he did a fine job. Some picks were questionable... but that is going to happen with all organizations..
I agree with you on Savage, RAC however was not a good coach. The biggest issue out of that mess was the fact that Phil was not allowed to pick his HC the first time, and was then fired after only one HC.
Randy and Collins chose, RAC, and then either Phil had to sign off or not take the job. Phil should have been allowed to atleast get a season or two with his guy. His issues off the field were the big problem is many peoples eyes, if it were me, he'd still be here with the HC of his choice.
I think he had the best eye for talent that has been in town for quite awhile. He wasnt perfect, but alot better than this bunchs eyes or butchs.
It all keep going back to high front office dysfunction...and thats Randy. He should given Phil the job of picking a HC, he shoulda hired a real GM this time to pick the coach. That dysfunction is why we are bad, that has to change.
People that say Randy is out of football operations are on weed, hes made the call on both new HC's...that pretty involved. Fine if the owner and GM go about it, but the owner, who has no clue, hiring HC's?
Thats why we are bad, high level dysfunction.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Are the Browns paying for Phil
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