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the last thread got long and, face it guys, this topic isn't going away. Quote:
Yes, the Browns' running game was a myth against the Broncos in Week 2. And yes, the right tackle had issues.
It is also true that Brady Quinn is young and inexperienced.
But those realities can only go so far in accounting for Quinn's ineffectiveness in a 27-6 loss at Denver.
The word stink comes to mind. Or stank or stunk.
Grade: D
His Week 1 performance against the Vikings (B--) rates All-Pro by comparison. It is difficult to imagine Ray Lewis quaking in his cleats as he and the Ravens prepare to play host to Quinn this weekend.
The NFL's passer rating can be misleading because of its limited scope, but Quinn's 58.7 sounds about right. The "quarterback'' rating, if there were such a thing, would be worse.
A review of each Browns pass play from the CBS Sports game tape showed that Quinn was periodically indecisive and repeatedly inaccurate.
The indecisiveness can be explained away as part of the growth process. Even though Quinn is in his third year as a pro, he does not have much game experience. What's more, it is impossible to tell from watching the tape whether each receiver is doing enough to help the quarterback on each route.
The inaccuracy, though, must be a concern for the coaches when it comes as it did against the Broncos and, to a lesser extent, the Vikings. The vast majority of Quinn's incompletions had no realistic chance of being completed, and the majority of his completions were not on the money.
A fourth-quarter pass intended for Braylon Edwards served as a microcosm. The Browns, attempting to save some face in garbage time, had first-and-10 at the Denver 46. Quinn, given plenty of time to survey the field, spotted a wide-open Edwards in the middle of soft coverage. But Quinn fired way high, missing the leaping Edwards near the 31.
Every quarterback is entitled to a bad throw once in a while, but with Quinn, it has happened a number of times already this season.
When the connections do happen, not much follows. Through two games, Quinn is averaging just 5.5 yards per attempt (366 yards on 66 attempts). His receivers have amassed an estimated 129 yards after the catch from 39 completions. The most staggering stat of all through Week 2: Quinn's wide receivers and tight ends have combined for 53 YAC. Part of the reason is, Quinn has not hit them in-stride.
If Quinn were a gunslinger, his wildness would be acceptable in a high-risk, high-reward context, just as a pitcher with control issues throwing 98 mph might walk two but strike out the side in an inning. Problem is, Quinn is not a gunslinger. He's strong, but does not have the "big'' arm. Quarterbacks with his range need to be accurate to be effective; he has not been.
http://www.cleveland.com/dman/index.ssf/2009/09/charting_brady_quinn_a_look_in_1.html
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A D is a very generous grade considering how pathetic the browns played yesterday  Here's my only 2 cents on the issue. I'm not a fan of either QB. I could care less if we get rid of both of them and draft somebody new. This team NEEDS a franchise QB.
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To go back to your last post in the Part 2 thread.
Show me where I ever said Quinn could save the season. I've said I thought Quinn was the better QB, but the fact is, the team sucks. Both QB's suck. Saying I think Quinn is the better QB is like saying I think Couch was better than David Carr.
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sorry, i can't work the search to go back that far nor do i want to put in that time. feel free to show me that if you find it.
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I'm not looking to find it, because it was never said.
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As I have said many a time : This team needs new ownership " First " 
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I don't think it needs it "first". Changing an owner right now isn't going to do anything for the players on the sideline... heck, it likely won't even have any affect on who is coaching for the first year or two while the new owner gets settled in and evaluates things.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I agree that neither are all that great... ...but you think Quinn is better than DA? 
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"I've said I thought"
Thought = past tense.
Right now, I don't know who is better. I don't care who is better. I know Anderson isn't the answer. Give Quinn the year since we're not going to compete anyway. And see if he proves he is the answer. If he is, great. If not, then we know, and we can draft a QB.
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I'd say neither is the answer...but Quinn is out of the question.
I'd run with Anderson until the time to find a QB happens. I'm not a fan of 'get a QB because we need one'. The pieces need to be in place -- the right QB, a protective line, a few weapons...of course it won't always happen in perfect harmony, but drafting a QB high because you need one is often a recipe for failure.
I'm not wowed by any current prospect enough to drop a top 5-10 pick on them. Although it is early.
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I wouldn't draft another first round QB until we are at least in the top half in the NFL in rushing and total defense.. THEN you go get a QB and you end up with short term "Sanchez like" results... Drafting a QB when you are in the high 20s to 30s in rushing and defense (unless there are serious extenuating circumstances) and you end up with bust after bust.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quinn was periodically indecisive and repeatedly inaccurate.
Yup, that's what I saw.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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other than indecisive, the inaccuracy has been well-documented all offseason unfortunately. it hasn't taken me by surprise.
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do consider his escalators kick in at 70% of snaps. if he doesn't shape up by week 8, anderson will finish up just so quinn doesn't become the most expensive terrible QB in the league.
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I keep seeing the comments that Quinn is a dink and dunker and that he ins't trying to throw downfield. I noticed at least 3 passes to Edwards that were on a rope early in the game. One was on the first drive for 14 yards. Braylon finished with 6 catches for 92 yards. Thats a 15 yard average. In contrast our #2 WR caught 5 passes for 22 yards for a great average of 4.4 yards. Im wondering whether its that Quinn is really that bad or is it that nobody but Edwards is able to get open downfield. Don't get me wrong. I'm not relieving Quinn of any fault. There are plenty of things that he is doing wrong but he is getting the ball downfield. The problem there is it's only to one guy. Can anyone that was at the game tell me if any of the other WR's were getting open? I think a lot more of the problem is the right side of the O-line and the #2 WR more than the QB. At least that's what I'm hoping. 
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That would absolutely explain what we are seeing.
If Edwards isn't open, then there is nobody to throw to, and for the record Quinn absolutely DID put some on a rope 20+ yards out... but we no longer have a standout TE to be a safety valve and our #2, Slot & TE aren't helping.
Where are all of the effective screens and draws we saw in preseason? Where are the plays to the edges?
I say we sit Royal and put Heiden in there... he a FAR better receiver, IMO.
Also, throw out St. Clair, immediately. Call up Ross Verba if we gotta, but get someone in here that can actually block an OLB.
Lastly, Daboll has gotta put his freaking thinking cap on. He has to look at what has been shutting us down and come up with ways to defeat it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Maybe playing guys who are actually Wide Receivers would help just a little? 
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Quote:
Maybe playing guys who are actually Wide Receivers would help just a little?
Now, let's not get carried away 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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quinn did make a few nice throws, some needing edwards to jump up there to grab it but edwards was on so it wasn't necessarily a problem other than the one throw to a wide-open edwards that went past even edwards' jumping ability. that said, it really felt like those throws were "forced." kinda like daboll told quinn "look, this play, edwards will be here, just throw him the ball" instead of it being an extension out of quinn's game. that's just how it felt but it could be because we rarely saw that type of throw from quinn. that said, to answer your question, i already posted this in another thread: said about the vikings game Quote:
2. As the Browns studied films, they saw some receivers were open but Quinn wasn’t patient enough to get him the ball. They are stressing that Quinn look just a little longer down field.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/09/terrys_talkin_about_brady_quin.html
mangini on the broncos game
Quote:
Mangini said this after Quinn went 18-of-31 for 161 yards, with an interception, four sacks and a 58.7 passer rating:
“There were definitely some opportunities for him to get the ball to receivers that were open.
“There were some plays where I thought he had nice throws, but it’s consistency, it’s consistency, it’s consistency ... first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter.”
http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x1073703015/Browns-Quinn-looking-for-answers-to-offenses-poor-play
now i would say remember cause-and-effect. quinn was told to stop checking down so early (vikings game) to hit the open receivers. the result? he was indecisive and held on to the ball in the broncos game. the broncos saw it, dialed up the pressure, and he got owned in the 2nd half.
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So, what you are saying is that it is all likely just a matter of him needing to mature with real game experience.
The game will either slow down enough for him to just play, or it won't... and no amount of time on the bench will do that for someone, they have to be in there with guys coming full speed.
God, growing pains SUCK!
PLEASE be an Eli and have the light go on after a few really bad early games!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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what i'm saying is my opinion of quinn has always been that he used the checkdown as a crutch to the point where the development of the rest of his game was hindered. when he did it as a rookie against the lions, no one cared and instead fell enamored with his numbers. i was one of the few that felt he needed to take some shots down field (not long ones, just 15-20 yarders) so he could score quickly and act like there's a chance to get the ball back and score again.
flas foward a year to him starting teh 3rd preseason game against the lions again thanks to a DA concussion and he tried to complete passes in the 10-20 yard range after questions of him dinking and dunking surfaced. what i saw wasn't encouraging. there i was in vegas celebrating my engagement and i see him overthrow receivers time and time again. that lions team went on to be winless.
flashfoward to the "wonderous" start against the broncos in 08. forget that they planned against DA or that they were the 30th defense. quinn checked down all day and no one seemed to care. people lauded him for making a jump pass to winslow that, against any half-decent team, would've been intercepted since there were 3 defenders within arms length and forget that, with less than a minute to go, he came out with 5 STRAIGHT DUMP OFFS when we were on our own 30. but instead fans saw what they wanted and went to the numbers and the completion percentages.
flash foward to now, he's dinked and dunked and now has happy feet. what i'm saying is quin is what he is and i don't see signs of him getting any better. i also said that, with a qb like quinn, we have no shot at a running game since our line is NOT a run-blocking line and with quinn's tendencies, if our opponent stacks the box, since there is no worry of getting beat up top, our offense has no shot at moving anywhere, let alone many people here claiming putting quinn in would allow us to move the chains.
when i mentioned eli, that was with regards to DA. i don't give a crap about completion percentages and i certainly don't care that he's not a 60% guy because in 1 completion, where he gets 20 yards, it could take a lot more for someone like quinn. in one throw where DA moves us by 20% of the field, it could take quinn 6 throws. so i say, i don't give a __ that DA completes 55% of his passes, he can actually score for us.
<edit>
i also forgot to mention that, with all the offseason reports of inaccuracy, it was also thrown out that he's a "gamer" and not a practice player, even when mangini said that he firmly believed that what he saw in practice is what would translate on the field on sundays. so much for that one fan-based grasping at straws, too.
Last edited by dong; 09/21/09 06:48 PM.
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I saw exactly what I expected to see out of Quinn, wait no, I expected 14 for 28, 189 yards 1 td and 1 int in a 28-14 loss, thats what I expected. It didn't happen.
THIS IS 3 TRAINWRECK QUINN STARTS SINCE AUGUST 14 2009
A Quinn start offense is consistent in 3 ways, fall behind by 15+ at some point, check
Do not lead more than 2 scoring drives the whole game, check
Get the teams tail kicked in the mid 3rd to late 4th quarter, check
And new to the list of consistency, 0 for whatever in the red zone, check.
If you count pre-season, and I do, then this is about 12 or 13 games for Quinn.
EVERYTHING I LOOK BACK ON OVER THE PAST GAMES POINTS TO ONE THING.
The team plays bad when he starts, the team plays bad when he sees time consistently falling behind in un competitive games.
The offense gave up 10 points yesterday ! blastit! The defense made 2 stops, 3 if you count the dropped pass by a bronco!
He had 6 drives to answer a 4 point deficit and he couldn't until it became a larger deficit !!!!! CONSISTENT PATTERN consistenly fall behind by 15+ points somewhere in a Quinn start. It is uncompetitive !
I think it is WORSE, that they won't sit him, than that he is bad.
Because that means they won't admit it, or don't mind it.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I love how so many people here refer to DA as "sucking" yet Quinn has yet to play a game remotely close to as good as anderson in his better games. I am not ready to throw the towel in on Brady yet but you have to admit, even with all of DA's shortcomings, he never looked as bad as Brady did yesterday (at least not to my eyes). Mangini is thrust into a bad spot here.....right off the bat too. If the browns go 0-4 or worse than the chris palmer "runaway train" effect will be in full bloom less before the 1st month of the season is over  Something has to change offensively even just to be able to have a punchers chance at winning a game. For some reason I dont think that means seeing too much more of what Quinn brings to the table. week 5 at the latest. Will Brady end up being as good as Tim Couch was? 
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Quote:
Will Brady end up being as good as Tim Couch was?
So far I will say Couch was a better QB than Quinn but he had alot more starts!
Get the point. 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Quote:
Where are all of the effective screens and draws we saw in preseason? Where are the plays to the edges?
In the preseason the QBs weren't allowed to audible and check out of plays. Now Quinn is. How many of the busted plays come from him checking into bad plays?
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All Pro
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Why even have this topic?
Frye is a backup level QB in the NFL
Frye was 3rd string in Seattle
Frye is 3rd string in Oakland
Yet
Frye beat out DA
Frye beat out BQ
^^^ That says it all. DA and BQ would be 3rd stringers in Oakland and Seattle.
No need for anymore topics on these 2 guys. Instead the topics should be on what great college QB the Browns should draft with the #1 pick in the 2010 draft.
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Frye beat out DA
Frye beat out BQ
Well the board just buried itself now...Frye didn't beat out BQ ..they never competed..Quinn was kept out because Phil wanted it that way...the mess U guys just makeup to prove a point(which none of U really have ) is laughable.. this whole debate is laughable..
DA is a streaky inconsistant QB...and we're going to see what Quinn is..thats it..
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Quote:
...face it guys, this topic isn't going away.
Certainly not, when we have posters who want to say the exact same thing a thousand times.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I was just getting ready to comment on the Frye/BQ thing. People will stoop to anything to make their point.
I'll say it again, the right decision was made in the starting QB. We have to see what this one has, and so far he isn't impressing, because the other one is not the answer. It will be time to move on if Quinn isn't the guy either.
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Quote:
I was just getting ready to comment on the Frye/BQ thing. People will stoop to anything to make their point.
I'll say it again, the right decision was made in the starting QB. We have to see what this one has, and so far he isn't impressing, because the other one is not the answer. It will be time to move on if Quinn isn't the guy either.
I agree with what you said. Most people on this board though are obviously sick of losing and don't want to give Quinn the time he needs to develop. He does need some more time, but I have to ask how much time is to much if we want to chalk this season up as a loss.
Mangini might only give Brady two or three more starts depending on how he plays. Seeing as he took a step backwards from the game against Minnesota and seeing as we're playing @Baltimore this coming week, We can't assume it will be much longer. Again assuming Mangini doesn't want this season to be a complete failure.
Quinn deserves more time, we have to know what we get with him.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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From a larger article about the Browns poor running game: "Eric Mangini said he “definitely” will stick with quarterback Brady Quinn, who will make his third straight start Sunday when the Browns play at Baltimore." link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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So this is pretty much my first post. Any previous post(s) of mine was to make fun of grammar and spelling errors in "professionally written" news articles, so those don't really count.
Several have mentioned this before, but I really don't understand why we have to continuously rehash this QB debate. As an aside, I wanted Quinn to win the QB competition because I thought he gave us a better chance to win (plain and simple).
Did I have doubts? Yes.
Do I still have doubts? Yes x2.
The way I see it, we are going to keep going around and around in circles all season, so it's really pointless. Plus, after thinking about it, the debate can just resolve itself. The Quinn Booster Club wants to see more starts from Quinn in order to get him gametime experience. The DA Booster Club wants Quinn benched/traded/taken out back and shot.
I say, let him stay in there to play himself into/out of the starting role. Put in another way, Quinn has been making the argument for his own benching by his play in the last two games. Let him keep playing, as he is the only one that can clarify is he is the right guy for the job.
Just trying to help...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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nice post noober. it seems like you're pretty new to browns boards in general so i'll give you a run down on qb talks in general.
if the team is losing, there will always be a qb thread. even when we were winning in 07, there were qb threads. simply put, cleveland fans in general are VERY emotional over the qb for some stupid reason.
no post, not yours, not mine, not any one person's post will stop that because, as we continue to lose and even when we win, there will always be qb talk until we become a consistent winner. it's a catch-22. you're not gonna find a qb if you don't stay with him for more than a year but each year, fans think someone else should be the qb. hell, some thought gradkoski and dorsey were legit starting qb options. luke mccown, anyone?
that said, this qb talk happens because posters make a lot of effort to voice an opinion. ultimately, this is a discussion board. why would you want to limit any topics just because you don't see the point? posters have long explained why they think someone is the best choice and as the data sets collect, people are looking to validate their opinions. like i said. this is a discussion board for opinions and browns fans have the most opinions on qb play.
further, at this time, qb is one of the few topics that people disagree on. look around this board. there's no discussion if everyone agrees on everything. everyone agrees that cribbs is not a wr. they think we need a better rb than lewis. they think the right side of the line needs re-tooling. they thing the run defense is still porous. you can't discuss if you agree.
that said, if you look at any other browns-related forums, their threads as significantly worse than the stuff on this board. those are much better examples of how biased, irrational, ignorant they can be. it's amazing, given how poor the qb play has been, that there's only two active qb threads.
if you don't like the, you have that choice to not click on the thread.
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Quote:
cleveland fans in general are VERY emotional over the qb for some stupid reason.
Ty Detmer
Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Jeff Garcia
Trent Dilfer
Charlie Frye
Derek Anderson
Brady Quinn
Ken Dorsey
Bruce Gradkowski
Have all started at least 1 game for the Browns since 1999. Sounds like a legitimate reason to be emotional about the QB position to me.
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I'm forgetting someone....
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Doug Pederson. Luke McCown.
Also, did Spergon Wynn start a game?
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i think luke mccown started a couple.
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Quote:
Doug Pederson.
Also, did Spergon Wynn start a game?
ha! doug peterson. "sec prepares for better qbs" my ass.
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Yes, McCown. And Pederson, and Wynn. Where is the "crying" smiley?
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