DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Eric Mangini Thread

When the competitive Browns come back, they dont have to be playoff bound. I will start watching them again. I am disgusted beyond belief.

Quote:

---

I saw a team today, late in the game. that QUIT on Mangini...they flat out quit on him

I don't blame them one bit...who calls a QB sneak on 1st and 10....thats just being stupid...Daboll should be fired for that right now.

---

I do blame them. At some point, some of these guys would get a little pride and realize that they're the one's who play in the game. What is being put on the field the past couple years has been pathetic. It's very difficult to watch because it's not only frustrating but also boring. Our offense is nonexistent.

We can blame Daboll all we want, but i've been seeing this trash all last season already.

Fact is we deserve better than what we're seeing, and if the Browns quit on us in any way, then whichever players those were shouldn't be here. Because the way that this team has played lately is unacceptable.

They should be nervous that they're going to be replaced

j/c


FINE MESS


By Ralph Vacchiano

Posted Sep 18, 2004


Back in May, when somewhere between seven and 10 Giants complained to the NFL players’ association about some of Tom Coughlin’s offseason workout program rules, the incident was dismissed throughout the organization as no big deal. It was not the start of a mutiny, not a sign of unrest. In fact, it wasn’t much of anything at all.


So what is it now that at least two and maybe as many as four players have gone to the union again – this time to file a grievance against Coughlin for fines they received for breaking another one of his rules?

It may not be a mutiny, but there is no doubt it’s at least a symbol of the unrest in the Giants’ locker room over some of the rules Coughlin has laid down in the eight months since he was hired as the Giants coach. The fines were relatively small (between $500 and $1,000) and the infractions were relatively minor (being three minutes “late” to a team meeting). But the players still decided to challenge their coach and take the matter right over Coughlin’s head. The latest incidents involve four players – defensive endMichael Strahan, cornerback Terry Cousin, and linebackers Carlos Emmons and Barrett Green. Two weeks ago, according to a report that first appeared on Foxsports.com, Coughlin scheduled a team meeting to start at 8:25 a.m., and Strahan arrived at 8:23. But one of Coughlin’s rules is that players must be in their seats five minutes early, which means that under “Coughlin Time” Strahan was actually three minutes late.

Strahan, according to the report, arrived to find the door to the meeting closed and team officials, fearful of a Strahan-Coughlin confrontation, warning him not to enter. Later that day, Strahan and Coughlin had a heated discussion about the incident, and the defensive end ended up with a $1,000 fine. During training camp, a similar incident occurred involving Cousin, Emmons and Green who were also not early enough to a meeting. They ended up with a $500 fine each.

According to an NFLPA spokesman, a grievance – which is different than an appeal and could result in a hearing in front of an arbitrator after the regular season – has been filed on behalf of all four players. One NFLPA source said Strahan placed a call himself and asked them to file the grievance on his behalf. Cousin admitted he has also appealed the fine, though Green and Emmons insist they did not.

Coughlin declined to discuss the incidents, though he did admit his policy is that “Meetings start five minutes early.” He also said one of his primary rules for his players is “Be on time.” Of course, that’s where the problem has arisen. Cousin and Green – the only two of the four players willing to talk about the incident – insisted “We were on time.” Green went on to say that he thought Coughlin’s insistence on players being in their seats five minutes early “was something that he recommended. I didn’t know it would be a punishable offense.”

Certainly, from Coughlin’s perspective, a rule is a rule, and he sees no excuse for a player not being five minutes early. In fact, just to make his point clear, he’s had all the clocks in the Giants’ stadium facilities set five minutes fast. And the players get the point. They just think Coughlin is being petty. If a meeting is scheduled to start at 8:25 but Coughlin really wants them there at 8:20, why wouldn’t he just tell them that in the first place? And why pick a fight with four key defensive players over three lousy minutes – especially when they had all still arrived before the meeting had actually started?

There’s a good possibility the players might have just paid the fines and let it go if they weren’t already chafing under Coughlin’s iron rule. This all started with those complaints about the offseason workout program, when Coughlin was forcing his players to eat breakfast at the stadium and keeping them there for meetings longer than allowed. And it’s continued with his insistence on a strict dress code on the road, removing the TVs from the workout room, the way he nitpicks over the height of players’ socks, and the way he forces the players to run onto the field for pre-game warm-ups like a high school marching band.

However, Coughlin does not believe he’s losing his players. In fact he thinks his players are adjusting to his rule book just fine.

“The players understand and they know what the program is about and I don't think there's been that difficult adjustment at all,” Coughlin said. “This is a group that has been fairly receptive. Everyone wants to make things out as if we had all these rules. The NFL has a lot of rules, in case anybody hasn't looked at the discipline schedule set by the commissioner. But we have certain things we believe in, and that's the way it's going to be. One of them is obviously to be punctual.”

Ironically, Coughlin made that comment on a day when he was nine minutes late to his own press conference – 14 minutes late if you go by the “Coughlin Time” clocks.

To be fair, while the Giants’ players are certainly grumbling loudly behind the scenes, there is hardly an all-out mutiny going on. It’s obvious he has a problem with Strahan – a big problem considering Strahan is perhaps the most influential team leader. But beyond that, the players insist (at least publicly) that Coughlin doesn’t have any problems with his team at all.

“He doesn’t have a problem with anybody,” Cousin said. “He just has things that he wants us to follow. We’re doing that the best that we can. That’s really it. He doesn’t have a problem with anybody in the locker room.”

Not yet, anyway. And that’s the key – possibly to this entire season. The coach and players seem to be testing each other right now, feeling both sides out to see how far they can be pushed. The coach wants the players to understand he is a dictator, and his rules are law. The players want the coach to know they’re not afraid to challenge him when they think he’s wrong.

So far they’ve challenged him twice – both times before the regular season had even started. Imagine how testy the two sides will be if the Giants are out of the playoff chase by mid-year.


scout.com




Head Coach: Tom Coughlin



Long regarded as one of the NFL’s premier head coaches, Tom Coughlin reached the pinnacle of his profession in the 2007 season when he led the Giants to a victory in Super Bowl XLII. The Giants, heavy underdogs entering the game, scored two fourth-quarter touchdowns to defeat the previously-undefeated New England Patriots, 17-14.

nfl.com

Post deleted by Referee2

Help me out here, exactly which is the correct side of the lolli-pop?

the center. i think it takes three licks.

have only read the last page, catching up from earlier today. Who saw the mangini press conf.

Deja Freaking Vu . . . i changed QB's because i though we needed a spark . . . YES!!!

Quote:

---

And maybe, possibly -- probably -- there are quitters in that locker room.

---

Mangini will flush out the quitters, careless, slackers out of this team over the season, Once he gets some real players who wanna be there, fines will lesson because he wont have to fine the adults he has playing for him.

My problem is we are 0 - 3 and a few players are more worried about $ 1,700 than being 0-3. Something is wrong with that.


Real professionals would pay the fine and move on with life and learn from it, Who ever this person is, is inmature and is 0 - 3

I can be a little hard headed at times, Django. I appreciate you giving me the time and the facts. With those arguments, it's pretty tough to defend Mangini.

I guess I just am so confused why people are so against the guy so quickly. When Savage/RAC came in, their first 2 rounds in the draft consisted of Edwards/Pool. While Edwards hasn't been a complete bust, I'm not so sure he's lived up to his billing to this point. Pool either.

So why did we give those guys time to get their stuff together? Was it just because Butch left such a bad taste in our mouths that we didn't care who came in, so long as it wasn't Butch?

I'm not trying to bait people because I really don't know the answer. Why have we given other coaches a chance to suck for a couple years whereas we're giving this guy 9 months? Is it just because of his personality?

I seriously do not know the answer. There's no denying we're a terrible team right now. But, I'm not sure that cleaning house after 3 games is really the right way to go. Then again, I'm not really sure which was IS the right way to go.

Do you actually think Mangini is going to make a real team here in Cleve?
They need a real coach.
I'm all for disipline, but this bum isnt going to get this team to buy into his program. Pro players are generally not quitters, they wouldnt make it to the pros if they were true quitters. If they do quit on Blandgini, it will prob be for some real reason. If it were just a few guys quitting because of their bad attitude or their inflated egos, thats on those players, but when the majority of the starters give up, then its not a quitter syndrome. its bad coach desease.

No,,,NO,,,The problem here is the Owner... !!!!!!

This is exactly why I had a problem with the Mangini hire... Lerner didn't do his due diligence. He had a whole process set up and was going to interview the best guys out there and get a feel for everyone but as soon as Mangini was fired, he fell in love, scrapped the whole process and went full steam ahead with Mangini. A guy like Rex Ryan would've been PERFECT for the attitude that this team needs, but despite being a leading contender around the league, we didn't even interview him. Hell, Jim Schwartz (who cancelled his interview with us post-Mangini love) has more wins than us in Detroit.

Whenever a guy is fired from a winning team, my first reaction would be to raise a red flag and ask why it happened, not go out and give him total control of the franchise. Now, we're stuck with a dictatorial coach who has clearly lost the team, has players filing grievances against him, has sucked the fun out of Cleveland football, has a disaster at the QB position and a draft with very few early contributors.

Mangini might be gone after this year but until we get rid of Lerner and get an owner who can actually make an intelligent hire, we're almost doomed to continue down this path.

If you stick with the suffering now then the success will be that much sweeter. That being said it better be like orgasmic to the 100th power when they are successful after what we been through.

I see that Braylon Edwards is not and never will be an elite WR.
On the DA int BE made no attempt to adjust to the ball.
I have seen this from BE time and time again.
He just doesn’t adjust his rout to the ball in the air like elite WR do.

I saw McDonald look like a little girl twirling around in circles as WR caught the ball and took off.

I saw a team that no coach can help till they man up and take pride in what they do.

At this point I really believe it’s not the coach that’s the problem but the players.

We change coaches but keep the same core players and we get the same thing year in year out.

There are a few players I see give it there all on the field.
On O: JT, Steinbach, Cribbs, Heiden and Vickers.
On D: Elam, Barten , Coleman and DQ
The rest I see play hard some times but seem to give up.

So how can a coach be held responsible for player that don’t give 100% he can’t just fire them all.

We have a problem on this team they have no heart and the only way you can get that is allow a coach 5 years to build a team with players.

Is the coach we have now able to do that I don’t know but we can’t keep changing players and coaching staff every 3 years or less.

In my opinion it's not Mangini's fault... I hope we are all not so reactionary and jump off a cliff just yet. He came in and instilled some discipline with a team that badly needed it. Go read "B Mac's" twitter page and you'll see what great human beings we're rooting for here. As he gets slapped around down field by McGahee I almost choked on my beer. I think Mangini is trying to make some men rise to the top while holding the children accountable. IMO that's good coaching. That's how you sustain success and have tradition. I mean do you want to root for a team that acts like a bunch of punks... parks in peoples spots, steals water, etc... I don't. So I applaud Mangini for sticking to his beliefs. If we can just get some "football players" in here and not the prima-donas we'd be ok. You have to test these guys though to pinpoint where the problems lie... and I'm sure Mangini is keeping a list. And I'm not talking about having 53 saints on the team. I'm talking about having 53 guys who work together and love football.

I keep coming back to Dalton's quote in Roadhouse (RIP Patrick Swayze):

"It'll get worse before it gets better."

I think there is often a period of adjustment when a new coach comes in - especially when you go from one extreme to the other (in this case soft to harsh) Players used to being coddled aren't now. The mentally tough and strong will play through this. Those who aren't won't be around long anyway. I'm as disgusted as the next guy. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I think we need to at least see one more off season and draft to get a true idea of the vision and direction that Kokinis and Mangini have.

That being said, it would be tempting for an owner to know that guys like Shannahan, Gruden, Holmgren, and Cowher are available in the offseason and you might take a chance by waiting on your guy to pan out while missing out on one of these.

I don't think Mangini's job is as safe as people think.

Discipline is one thing, yes RAC was in the other ditch of a day spa atmosphere. But there is a huge difference between discipline and petty stupid pet peeves.

Fining guys for haveing water bottles or taking parking spaces doesnt lead to a more disciplined team on the field, its leads to a bunch of players hating their HC, it actually breaks up the team completely. See the whole point of discipline is discipline on the field, you cant control players lives. I think EM believes that he has to have "good people" on his football team to win, you dont. You just need guys that dont make waves and show up on sunday. Every one of the past super bowl teams have low character guys, but they play on sunday, and they lead on the field.

EM is very much at fault, he decreased this teams talent level, made a mockery of an NFL draft. Butchered a QB competition, didnt properly prepare his football team this offseason, hired a rookie OC that has no clue what hes doing. His football team is getting into fights, his own players are filing grievances.

This team isnt just bad, its the worst in the league. We arent even competitive, we are and even bigger joke than ever. In rare circumstances, firing a coach in season is warranted, if he looses sunday against the bengals, in typical EM fashion...by 24. You have to make Rob Ryan the HC...cuz's EM's little games will lose this locker room, then you have guys who will quit, it will spread and then you have yet and even bigger mess than we already have.

Quote:

---

Fining guys for haveing water bottles or taking parking spaces doesnt lead to a more disciplined team on the field, its leads to a bunch of players hating their HC, it actually breaks up the team completely.

---

He didn't fine a guy for having a water bottle. He fined a guy for taking a water bottle and not paying for it. If he lets that go, where does he draw the line?

As far as players hating the HC, quite a few players from the Green Bay Packers dynasty in the 1960's hated Vince Lombardi, and that actually served as a common ground to pull them together. The Oakland A's of the early 1970's hated their owner, but again, that pulled them together.

When I look back at the coaches I hated most in my playing days, I see men who made me accountable for the little things. These were men who didn't accept less than my best, didn't tolerate goofing off, and demanded that I be a gentleman on and off the field. While we hated some of these guys at the time (and still do in some cases), we played hard because we knew if we didn't we'd be on the bench or out the door. It was that simple. In all honesty, they were also some of my best coaches.

So...you guys would go all out and risk life altering injuries for your boss who you just filed a grievance against because he pretends to be your daddy? I seriously DOUBT it....I know I wouldn't

Lets see millions of dollars to play football? or Mcdonalds? its Their JOB i dont care if Mangini whips them, the amount of money these tards make is ridiculous. For what they make to play a GAME they should be allstars not pansys.

Quote:

---

So...you guys would go all out and risk life altering injuries for your boss who you just filed a grievance against because he pretends to be your daddy? I seriously DOUBT it....I know I wouldn't

---

You're not doing it for your boss/coach. You're doing it for your team, for your fans, and because it's the right thing to do. Not liking my boss is no excuse for me not to be true to myself and do the best I can. In fact, it's the cop out of a person with weak character.

And you'd quite rightfully find yourself on the bench.
If you sign a contract with a roofer for him to do your roof and he takes your money, but then sits on his butt without doing the roof because he thinks your an ass... is that Ok by you? No, and the deal with players is no different.

This isn't about emotions or happiness or any of that complete garbage. This is about doing the job you signed a contract to do and doing it to the best of your abilities.
This, as the players so love to tell everyone, is about business. They are paid quite handsomely to shut the hell up and play and give the occasional "Everybody loves everyone, this place is great" media byte.

Their coach is higher in the food chain than they are, thus their sole purpose in life is to do as the coach instructs them. Right or wrong. End of Story. Any player that would tank it needs to grow the hell up and learn what it truly means to be a Professional.

j/c

mangini came to town in a terrible situation. bad cap moves, handcuffed to hyped-up talent who he had no choice but to play (read: quinn), wrong personel for the system. i give him at least another off-season. he's righting a lot of wrongs.

quinn.

if you want more: overpaying in both dollars and in draft picks for sub-par talent. corey williams might be good but so far, has not been worth a 2nd rounder and a new contract. leon williams, martin rucker, paul hubbard, donte stallworth, beau bell as well as the mishandling of other players like cribbs, k2, etc.

you can say many of those were late round picks yet our late round picks are getting on the field this season. mangini isn't perfect but when you really step back for a second, our 3-4 was barely a 3-4 and i'm sure we'd be even worse if we didn't get coleman, barton, and elam.

I don't agree Dong

Mangini has made this team worse...in terms of Fa and draft picks, and he traded our best player away to the Bucs(Winslow)

say what you want, Winslow was the heart and soul of our offense, and Edwards was a bum that benefited from Winslow in 07...Winslow was the gears that made the wheel turn here...both QB would look much better with Winslow in there

You don't trade away a Pro Bowl Tight End who had two 1,000 yard receiving seasons back to back...you just don't do it...not unless you can get a 1st rder out of him..

Winslow is a "Premier" pass catcher in this league..the kid is ELITE the only players close to him are Gates and Gonzalez...no other Te in this league are even in the same class as Winslow...and we traded him...that alone should get Gini fired in itself...trading away our best player...totally dumb...i could care less how mouthy Winslow was...as long as he catches the darn ball and makes plays who cares

Mangini is a a loser, the guy should be one and done....bring a real coach in here

Marty, Cowher, Mooch, Shotenheimer, Shanahan, someone....there were much better options out there than Mangini

He blew our draft this year, set this franchise back for a very long time...I only liked Robiskie as a slot receiver, other than that, this draft is very suspect...Mack may be a decent Center, but outside of that...fail

I don't view any of those as righting wrongs as much as I see it as a new coach simply going with his people when/where he can because for every one of what you just listed is another group of bad decisions with his own guys.

You say Rucker, I say Royal.
Hubbard & Stallworth? Cribbs, Robo, MoMass, Furrey.
Bell (and I'll even throw in Andra Davis)? Maiava, Veikune, Bowens?

K2? He replaced 80 catches a year with 33 and no vertical threat at all, leaving Edwards as our ONLY legitimate threat - who is now quite easily taken away.

i'm not saying he's perfect by any means but i read his actions as taking a jump on a lot of the poor investments (both draft and money) and taking the lumps now. it's clear we weren't going to do much this season so we take the hits now so we have the talent and experience next season. if none of his picks are playing next season, we can call this past off-season a failure but in the meantime, the poor picks by savage are taking up space and money.

as i also said, mangini had no choice in quinn so he had to play him and i stand on the statement that quinn plays a large reason why we're 0-3 and not 1-2 or 2-1. we damn well could've won the first two games given how we were playing and if we did, this thread would not exist.

Speculation commences that Mangini won't make it to January
Posted by Mike Florio on September 27, 2009 7:59 PM ET
Last year, Browns owner Randy Lerner fired coach Romeo Crennel and G.M. Phil Savage, only a year after giving each of them contract extensions.

Now, with the Browns at 0-3 and coach Eric Mangini in the eye of a storm of criticism and grievances, some league insiders openly are expressing concern that Mangini won't make it through the end of the season.

If so, Mangini possibly would be the only head coach fired by two different NFL teams in less than a year.

Butch Davis resigned after 11 games in 2004. In all, the Browns have had five head coaches (permanent and interim) in the decade since they have returned to the league.

UPDATE: As a reader points out, Ray Rhodes was fired by the Eagles after the 1998 season, and then by the Packers after the 1999 season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/200...-it-to-january/

Hmm...

"we damn well could've won the first two games given how we were playing and if we did, this thread would not exist. "

Don't bogart that joint,my friend,pass it over to me.

Quote:

---

mangini had no choice in quinn so he had to play him and i stand on the statement that quinn plays a large reason why we're 0-3 and not 1-2 or 2-1. we damn well could've won the first two games given how we were playing and if we did, this thread would not exist.

---

If mangini had no choice but play BQ, then why all QB competitions why not name DA right from the beginning. Don’t tell me because owner wanted it his way, won’t buy that unless you provide any proof.

He is inapt coach if he plays BQ here and Favre last year because some pressure. He has failed on multiple fronts so far, OC is his choice, He selected Robo instead of Ray Mauluga, He passed on Mark sanchez, Under him this defense has regressed, His players are filing grievances against him.