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I will throw out a what if, What if the Browns went 13-3 this season? Would Mangini get a pass on the first 3 games? Would Mangini be a genius? Would all of the Mangini haters disappear? Would Mangini be called a GOD for turning the Browns around?
Yes, yes, yes and yes
Highly unlikely though. More likely we go 3-13.
I predicted we'd go 9-7 thinking we'd upgraded a bit, obtained some needed depth and hopefully, couldn't possibly, have the wholesale injury situation we had last season.
Now that I see how this team is playing I'm doubtful of any sort of turn around this season. The issues run deep. Deeper than the talent level.
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The way I saw it as it played out is that they've done pretty much the same thing. Savage let go of high paid underachievers and brought in warm bodies to replace them. He didn't go for any high tier FA's with the exception of Baxter because Henry forced his hand by leaving via FA.
They used that first season as an evaluation period. Many of you will remember Savage saying he wishes he could fast forward to the end of the season so he could get started.
I see M/K as basically doing the same thing. The difference might be that the "warm bodies" are players that Mangini is familiar with. Other than that it's the same.
There's a lot of impatience on here because M/K didn't bring in better FA's or draft for positions we all knew to be below average. Again, evaluation season.
I'll leave the FA pickups aside for a sec..because it's that pattern..bring in guys you know...a bit overkill this time just like in 99 when the team was littered with 49ers..
What I will address is the draft and if you've followed my posts over the years you know I don't bite my tongue about it..for a first year under a new FO and HC..you do one thing in the draft if the roster is going through a shakedown..you get the best players you can so they can grow under your watch..this didn't happen...even Phil tried the homerun ball with Edwards/Pool his first year..
We know what the holes are/were...yet how do you fill the holes?
U get the BPA at those positions..thats how U build..you don't bring in complimentary players when you lack talent..you do that when your roster is stacked..and we see the rookies aren't even seeing the field..it doesn't make them busts..it makes me question what they're doing with them.
U drafted them get them on the field..they're supposed to have high football IQ's ..then see how they adjust..don't stash them away.
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Mort said he's on the hotseat already.
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Just announced DA will start.
you had a good run Hank.
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Mort said he's on the hotseat already.
Well, I wonder where Mort is getting that from. Is it from all the fans and media types calling for his head, or is there really a sentiment that Mangini should be gone among the DECISION MAKERS?
I have no idea one way or the other. But I just question where Mort is getting his info.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Mort said he's on the hotseat already.
Well, I wonder where Mort is getting that from. Is it from all the fans and media types calling for his head, or is there really a sentiment that Mangini should be gone among the DECISION MAKERS?
I have no idea one way or the other. But I just question where Mort is getting his info.
PFT reported it a few days ago as well. So I'm guessing they are getting this from the same source.
In fact, PFT wondered if he would even make it to January.
you had a good run Hank.
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DA..starting..I'd like to hear what Gini is planning with Quinn.. more time to sit/watch, collect himself?
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j/c read this guys....it's what I've been saying for over half a year now http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-Eagles-bring-back-Trotter.htmlMr. Secret and the Browns’ QB Browns head coach Eric Mangini can keep a secret -- this we know. Which makes me wonder if that’s what Browns owner Randy Lerner saw in Mangini that was appealing enough to make him give Mangini another chance as head coach. What else could it be? Mangini made no one happy at the Jets, was tough for the players to deal with, was tough on the coaches and was tough on the organization, as his inability to communicate with anyone is legendary -- not only with the Jets but around the NFL. Nothing has changed since his move to Cleveland. The stupid fines, the secrets, the pretending to be like someone else, the lack of communication with the staff, the second-guessing have all surfaced on the shores of Lake Erie. What player is going to want to sign up next year for a chance to play for him? Since being labeled “Mangenius” and dining at Vesuvio on “The Sopranos,” Mangini is 13-22 the past three years and falling -- rapidly. So I say keep your secrets, Eric -- who cares? After Week 3 of the NFL season, you’ve taken a proud city and proud franchise and put their team in those god-awful brown pants and destroyed their hopes for success. It’s not going to get better any time soon.
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PFT reported it a few days ago as well. So I'm guessing they are getting this from the same source.
In fact, PFT wondered if he would even make it to January.
And these writer's often just parrot what one already wrote and call it a source. Knowing PFT, they just made it up - or were actually just wondering - but now it is print and other media folk latch onto it. The story creates itself, and will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Geesh,, 3 weeks in to this season and already,, the hounds are yelping...
I guess if Mangini was handed what Tomlin was handed and blew it,, yeah, I'd understand the yelping
Hell, if Mangini were handed just what he built in NY for the Jets,,,, then yeah.
But he was handed a pile of do do and people think he should be able to wave his magic wand and all is good.,..
And then you have the crowd of folks that think we should start a movement to get lerner to sell the team...
I think if someone offered him 1.2 billion, he's sell it right now.. but nobody is gonna do that..
Talk about lame thinking..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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PFT reported it a few days ago as well. So I'm guessing they are getting this from the same source.
In fact, PFT wondered if he would even make it to January.
And these writer's often just parrot what one already wrote and call it a source. Knowing PFT, they just made it up - or were actually just wondering - but now it is print and other media folk latch onto it. The story creates itself, and will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Oh I agree, but on the offhand chance that they are right...
I don't know, I don't think anyone can argue that Mangini doesn't deserve it by now.
you had a good run Hank.
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PFT reported it a few days ago as well. So I'm guessing they are getting this from the same source.
In fact, PFT wondered if he would even make it to January.
And these writer's often just parrot what one already wrote and call it a source. Knowing PFT, they just made it up - or were actually just wondering - but now it is print and other media folk latch onto it. The story creates itself, and will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Oh I agree, but on the offhand chance that they are right...
I don't know, I don't think anyone can argue that Mangini doesn't deserve it by now.
A coach gets handed this crap team and deserves to be fired after week 3? 
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PFT reported it a few days ago as well. So I'm guessing they are getting this from the same source.
In fact, PFT wondered if he would even make it to January.
And these writer's often just parrot what one already wrote and call it a source. Knowing PFT, they just made it up - or were actually just wondering - but now it is print and other media folk latch onto it. The story creates itself, and will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Oh I agree, but on the offhand chance that they are right...
I don't know, I don't think anyone can argue that Mangini doesn't deserve it by now.
A coach gets handed this crap team and deserves to be fired after week 3?
I do not believe this team went from 10-6 to a possible 0-16 team in two years. Even with a hot and cold DA, you expect the team to get hot at one point and win, but this team looks like garbage.
If it continues down this same path without improvement, Mangini will earn that pink slip and there will be very little argument against that.
you had a good run Hank.
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it's really basically like saying Quinn needs more time...for what?
No it's not. Not at all. My question, that you cannot answer either, is how a kid who played pretty well his first two starts last season now looks like he's never stepped on an NFL field before this season. The young man is a deer in the headlights while he gave absolutely no indication of that when he played last season. I'm asking what happened? How does someone regress that far after going through another off season and training camp. If all he did was play as well, throw as accurately and make the decisions he did last season in his two games I'd be fine with him. But now, somehow, he plays like he hasn't a clue. He sure looked like he had a clue last year. Again, what happened?
Here's where I simply disagree ddub....while he didn't look THIS bad he never looked even "decent" last year....even against the Broncos who then fielded a patchwork D with some UDFAs rookies and vet-scrubs waiver pickups (no joke, look at the gamebook...that was a mediocre College team he faced since those guys never really played together...and EVERYBODY crushed them last year)...I remember me saying "what a horrible throw" on his 1st TD (mechanics AND decision)...and since then he looked worse...against the Bills and then against Texans....he regressed even LAST season and I think the DCs just figured him out...the book on him was out, so to say
short: he never showed "IT" even last year....but since it was too small a sample size and he didn't look horrible (like this year) it was pretty much NON data....so we had to find out the hard way: we know now...and so does Eric "whoever I pick is my QB" Mangini
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But he was handed a pile of do do and people think he should be able to wave his magic wand and all is good.,..
Jesus...I will keep repeating this till it finds a brain...the same "do do" won 10 games 2 years ago and was about an average NFL team with lots of young starters....and now we are BY FAR the worst team in football...
I know what the real "do do" is here... 
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Look in the mirror..U just keep pasting stuff as if your efforts are going to do something..none of us hired Mangini..none of us play for the Browns..U need to chill..
Stop trying to ram your opinions on everyone..you were o.k whenyou were not agenda driven ..but now you're like a scorned EX who has to stalk the person who broke up the relationship..
As I said the 07 team is practically in mothballs..they went down the drain last year..they couldn't live up the 07 season..which proves a lot of things..fluky season..they regressed..they also got quite full of themselves which added to the pain..U also overlook certain personnel are gone..which disrupted the continuity on offense and defense..without upgrades..
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I love all the broad "what ifs" like, what if we turn it around and go 6-10.....anybody watched this mess? This team will be lucky to win 2 games. Right now, today, they wont win a game. Now I'm sure along this season we will get a bad team, with injuries, and we'll squeak one or two out.
Everything that the media and Jets people have said about EM, have been spot on, so I have no reason to doubt the articles coming out.
I also have no doubt that with the economy, that Lerner has his ears up now. I dunno how many people on here live in and around C-Town, but fans are ticked. More so than I've seen since the team has been back.
So far, with EM, there is no hope, none. That is something new, because atleast with every other regime, there's been a little hope, a little light...something to grap on too. Not this time.
Eric inherited a bad team, and made it worse. By personnel moves and by his own decisions and actions. His personality is alienating the entire team, and he is in serious danger of losing the locker room.
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Honestly, I wonder how this outrage compares to when Bernie was cut.
I don't remember what it was like back then, too young.
Difference is now we have the outlet to voice our outrage.
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Jesus...I will keep repeating this till it finds a brain...the same "do do" won 10 games 2 years ago and was about an average NFL team with lots of young starters....and now we are BY FAR the worst team in football...
I know what the real "do do" is here...
Dude, save your breath, your will never convince the apologists for this franchise. You can keep posting stats, info, articles, links, and facts. They are not gonna accept reality, and what is going on here.
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Funny how a Belicheck disciple is eerily similar in his media/fan relations as the man himself.
I bet Bill is laughing his butt off in NE right now, knowing full well what Eric is doing, and how the Cleveland fans will react.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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...I will keep repeating this till it finds a brain..
Man what a great line!
#gmstrong
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A coach gets handed this crap team and deserves to be fired after week 3?
Call it what you will.. but he was handed a team with a pro-bowl LT, a pro-bowl (I think) LG, he drafted a first round center, a pro-bowl QB and a first round pick QB, a pro-bowl WR, a pro-bowl TE, a former (but aging) pro-bowl RB.. and he's scored 1 garbage time TD in 3 games.
Let me put this another way... he was handed the same QB, #1 WR, TE, RB, LT, LG, and Center that RAC won 10 games with... So you're saying that less talent at the RG, RT and #2 WR spots is the difference between winning 10 games and winning 0?
6 weeks into that season we were averaging almost 28 ppg.. now we're under 10...
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It was the QB position holding us back.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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to be fair, if we're comparing the 07 season, we can't say we won 0 games when we won 10.
in 07, we played the steelers, bengals, and raiders.
in 09, we played the vikings, broncos, and ravens
09 is noticeably tougher. we may be 0-3 now but we were only 1-2 in 07. the point being we can turn this around as we have in 07. some of it will be coaching, some of it will be player progression. it's safe to say everyone regressed in 08 so it's not like mangini is getting the exact players from 07 but that's splitting hairs. more importantly, it's arguable that we were supposed to lose to the vikings and ravens, the broncos, i dunno.
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more importantly, it's arguable that we were supposed to lose to the vikings and ravens, the broncos, i dunno.
I'd say we should be 1-2 at this point.
But more important than the record is how badly we've been losing. If we were 0-3 with two hard fought losses and a blowout...or even one hard fought loss, things would be easier to swallow.
For all 180 minutes we've played, how many of those minutes were we still in the game?
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exactly. we folded by halftime in two of them. it was pathetic. that's the prob though, as our defense did ok but wasn't good enough to prop up our offense.
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Honestly, I wonder how this outrage compares to when Bernie was cut.
I don't remember what it was like back then, too young.
It was damn near as shocking as "the Move". The local media hated Belichick the same way they now hate on Mangini. No one was on his side or even cared to see his point.
They were showing Bernie's Cowboys game at the same time Todd Philcox led the Browns. You could switch back and forth and check them both out.
It was huge headlines in the papers. I remember one of the stories as it had a stunning quote. The announcement that Kosar came at a time of day that many players did not hear about it yet on their way to practice. Eric Metcalf was approached by the local media as he was walking across the parking lot and was asked what he thought about Bernie being cut. They said he stopped in his tracks, took a few steps and stopped again. Looking stunned he said,"They got Bernie?"
That quote chilled me since Belicheck had already cut some some good Browns players and was looking for all the world like no one was safe.
It was a pretty big deal Ammo. It seemed the whole NFL world was on Bernie's side. It was a defining moment in Cleveland Browns history and in that of Belichick's career to that point.
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It was the QB position holding us back.
Can we get an emoticon with a guy holding his hands over his ears to make the repetitive noise stop?
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It was the QB position holding us back.
And that won't change the rest of the season.
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it's arguable that we were supposed to lose to the vikings and ravens, the broncos, i dunno.
dong, given the 3 teams we've played (even the Broncos who have been a surprise) it's very possible that we could be 0-3 right now and still have some optimism.. if we had seen ANYTHING to be optimisic about.
Which is my point.. not that we are 0-3 but given that so many of the same players are here, and healthy.. from the '07 team, I would have expected to see something.. anything.
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It was the QB position holding us back.
Dereks own words “Whatever I can do to give the team a spark,” Anderson said. “I threw some balls in places that I had no business throwing to (against Baltimore). Things I wouldn’t do in a 7-3 game.”
There isnt any receivers getting open, which is why he was "flinging it around". teams double BE, we have nobody else.
Which is why EM should just stick with Quinn, let him go, see what he has over the season. Niether QB is gonna make a difference, least we get to see what Quinn has over the long haul....I can tell you what we are gonna get with DA, when nobody is getting open.
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It was the QB position holding us back.
And that won't change the rest of the season.
That will have to wait til we start DA and play a couple games.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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well, maybe i'm just naive, but i have seen things to be optimistic about.
-first half of the vikings game, our defense played great. we got good pressure, we contained peterson and we maintained gap responsibility. same for the broncos game, with exception to finishing on orton.
-cribbs returned a punt for a td
-zastudil has been consistent on punts, an improvement over last season.
these are all positives. the glaring negative is obviously offense. this is a mangini thread but you know how i feel about the offense and you know how i feel about the production of players on there. many people here also knew that i anticipated this type of production as a result of the personell choices we made. i also have reason for optimism because of recent moves. whether that optimism is met or not, i don't know but i know there have been signs. things fell apart because the scale of balance was severely tipped between offense and defense so the scale broke. if the offense starts coming up a little, i think we can be a lot better.
jmho but i truly think we'll see a better team this week.
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A coach gets handed this crap team and deserves to be fired after week 3?
No, but when a coach is handed a crap team and actually makes them WORSE while screwing up their QB situation within 3 weeks, he should definitely be a little concerned over his job. Personally, I hated the hire and Lerner's process and I hate it even more now. If I were to wake up on Monday to read that Mangini got fired and Ryan was promoted to interim head coach, I don't think I'd even flinch.
We're... we're good?
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Stop trying to ram your opinions on everyone..you were o.k whenyou were not agenda driven ..but now you're like a scorned EX who has to stalk the person who broke up the relationship..
Interesting post from you.
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And? I don't accept things that people spew out all the time..never have, never will..
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And? I don't accept things that people spew out all the time..never have, never will..
Good for you! 
There are a few of us like that. 
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Figured I would put this here, but this writer talked to a player and says that Mangini didnt lose the locker room yet Players haven’t given up on Mangini … yet By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports The conversation started innocently on Monday morning. I’d gotten in touch with a Cleveland Browns player who I had known for several years. We talked about his family, his sad attempt at developing a new golf swing and traded some speculation we’d each heard about Michael Crabtree(notes) and the San Francisco 49ers’ recent charges of tampering against the New York Jets. And in the midst of it, the player walked right into the reason I had called in the first place. “Can you have like, tampering in reverse?” he cracked. “Is there such a thing as that? Because I’m thinking of having some reverse tampering.” Going back to last season with the Jets, Mangini’s teams have lost five straight games. He laughed when he said it, although it sounded like the kind of joke you make when part of you wants something to come true. But it was a joke nonetheless – Browns players aren’t begging former coaches to pry them off the Cleveland roster … at least, not yet. Give it another month and who knows how much lower the Browns can sink. After scoring nine points in the last two games combined, the conversation has already shifted to whether the Browns have given up on coach Eric Mangini – though this particular Browns player denied that notion. “It’s not true. I don’t believe that,” he said. “I mean, we’re still sacrificing. I haven’t heard anyone say ‘I don’t want to give it up for [Mangini].’ That’s when you know guys are going through [the motions]. I’m not feeling that. … Guys are embarrassed, but it’s only three games. What is the record of the teams we’ve lost to?” That would be a combined 9-0 for the three teams (Minnesota Vikings, Denver Broncos and Baltimore Ravens) that have beaten the Browns. And while that has some redeeming value (it’s better to lose to winners than to losers), there’s no denying this is a roster and a head coach that have gotten off on the wrong foot. There was the infamous 10-hour bus ride that Mangini made his rookies endure to take part in his Connecticut-based football camp. There was the butting heads with various veterans, from defensive tackle Shaun Rogers(notes) to wideout Braylon Edwards(notes) to jettisoned tight end Kellen Winslow(notes). And of course, the recent fines, including $1,701 for not paying for a $3 bottle of water at a hotel, which is heading toward a showdown between the Browns and the NFL Players Association. Frame that around an uninspired 0-3 start, a porous defense and a non-functional offense which has already moved from Brady Quinn(notes) to Derek Anderson(notes), and Cleveland has a way of making other sad-sack franchises look highly functional. And at least one thing is clear (and this player admitted as much), Mangini’s lack of a personable relationship with his roster is hurting him. “He’s not going to show up to your birthday party,” the player said with a laugh. “But oh well. He’s the coach and you’re the player. What are you going to do?” So far? Lose. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Al...o&type=lgns
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
I said early on that Mangini reminded me of someone that thought he was Bill Belichick but didn't have the "chops" to prove it. (How's that for a Toad-worthy back patting manuever.....).
What I find interesting is that, apparently, everyone but the folks in Ohio knew that Mangini was disliked by virtually all his Jets players and just about everyone else that had come in contact with the guy while he was in NYC.
But Randy Lerner, bidding against no one, had to lock him up before he could get away.
Now, Mangini may turn out to be a good coach here. I doubt it but it could happen. The question is will there be any fans left in the stands when that happens?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
"Build it, and they will come,..."
If EM does get this done -- depending on what your/our expectations are -- they will ALL be back.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Eric Mangini Thread
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