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What U just said about people wanting Quinn because he's Brady is stupid..
He was a first round pick..U have to see what he has before U make a decision on him..three games is not enough for a guy getting the full start for the first time..this ain't about marketing or ticket sales..it's about a seemingly NFL QB who's supposed to possess the skills needed to be a successful QB..
Prime example last yr... Atlanta,,(Ryan),, Ravens,,,(Flaco),,,,
this yr.,,,,Jets,,(Sanchez),,,, Lions,,,(Stafford)...
From the coaching staff,,,all the to up to Mr. Randy,,, they have no clue,,, no talent,,, no proven record on how to build a winning team.... Jets don't look to bad this yr. with their new coaching staff....and look at the different playing calling for BQ and then look at DA. 
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That's my problem with Quinn is he hasn't shown anything. yes I know its only been a couple games last year and 3 games this year but he hasn't shown anything to give any hope. That's why I said the only reason people would want him in there is because of the fact that he's Brady Quinn. He dropped all the way to the bottom of the first round for a reason. Yes he is Supposed to possess the skills to be a starting QB but sometimes QB's just aren't NFL quarterbacks. As I believe is the case here.
The question to me isn't should we see what Quinn has or doesn't have, it's who's the better of the two. It's Anderson so we should go with him. Tell me why we shouldn't? He's had 1.5 years where the job was his. He is 12-10 as a starter if my memory serves me correctly. Where is the controversy? Because Savage decided to blow his wad to get Quinn? It was a mistake. Get rid of him and move on and continue to develop Anderson. Send Quinn to a team with a stellar defense who is looking for a game manager. That is not this team, the Browns need a QB who is going to move the ball in order to stay in games. Int's happen we can live with them.
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Why is everyone so convinced that Anderson can't be the answer. Can anyone tell me why? Just because he wasn't a first round pick doesn't mean he can't be the long term answer. How can anyone say that Anderson is done developing?
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Clay, if I was in charge I'd start Quinn next week and go no-huddle from the beginning.. do something to change it up.. Quinns greatest attribute is supposed to be his smarts, his ability to spot things in the defense.. so USE IT. I'd not only try to get him to throw the ball down the field, I'd require it. Hell fine him $1700 if at least one out of every 4 passes doesn't travel at least 10 yards in the air. I'd script my first 20 plays and 18 of them would be passes and 12 of them would be deeper routes....
(obviously I'm not serious about fining him but something needs to be done to restore his confidence) In the preseason this offense had some flow to it under Quinn and looked better than it did under DA.. that is, IMHO, why Quinn was named the starter to begin with... BQ needs to be given that vote of confidence from above that if he throws a pick or two down the field trying to make a play, that it's NOT the end of the world and that he's NOT going to be yanked for it...
yebat' Putin
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Honestly, I want him to get more time to see if he can work his way out of whatever funk he is in...
This is what I don't get about BQ. He looked OK last season, he looked very solid in the pre-season... was it because opposing D's just went vanilla on him, worrying about their own issues, and now they're amping up the things necessary to stop him?
Why won't he throw the damn ball down the field? Is nobody open? Geez....
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Hey, I know I am the rookie with this posting thing...it doesn't matter who we have at QB right now, we don't have a line that can protect them or a running game that is effective. Our play calling is inadequate. I always read that the QB we have need to develop, why is it that others can develop right away but ours need time. We have two QB being paid pretty good but neither can produce results which is not entirely their fault but hey it is what it is at this point. We have to many problems that that need to be address and it does not appear that it will happen in the near future! Hey there is always next week......!  
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I thinks its a matter of not anticipating routes. In the NFL people aren't usually just wide open like in back yard football. Good QB's will throw the ball while the consumer is running his route and throw the ball to a spot. The only people I see Quinn throw the ball too are receivers that are wide open. Well actually it's usually running backs or Robert Royal that he throws the ball too. Just my opinion but he doesn't know how or is terrified to anticipate a route.
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Don't worry dude, I'm a rookie too. Even if I wasn't a rookie who cares. You're opinion shouldn't be judged on how many post you have anyways.
As for your post, I agree for the most part. We need to many other things before a QB. That's why I say run with Anderson since he's NFL ready and proven at least something and lets focus on the rest of the team. Once the OL and defense are in place and Anderson isn't winning then draft a QB. If he is winning then well that's just Awesome.
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What we need is a "hands on Owner"..... 
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Or just an owner that cares enough to hire the right people. Not sure I want to hands on of an owner. I can't stand the likes of Al Davis and Jerry Jones. Definately need a new owner. I feel the Browns are that dog that gets neglected, no food, no water, and left outside in snow storms.
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Well Dawgbone,
I don't think we need a "hands on owner", but just one who has a burning desire to win, and not think of the Browns as just a business franchise( even though they are). Also, we need a owner who understands football and if he does not, admit it and then get "football people" in here to run his team.
Example: -> Get a GM who has actually been a sucessful GM before. Get a Coach who has been a head coach or a promising assistant. Then tell the coach to find a OC/DC who has done the job before, and not a rookie learning on the job. Then tell them all to act in one accord, "To make the Browns a Championship Team". They might have disagreements, but then make sure the owner listens to each side of an arguement and possibly give his direction based on what he has heard, not who he likes/dislikes..etc.
We do that, we might have a franchise to be proud of.
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Or just an owner that cares enough to hire the right people. Not sure I want to hands on of an owner. I can't stand the likes of Al Davis and Jerry Jones. Definately need a new owner. I feel the Browns are that dog that gets neglected, no food, no water, and left outside in snow storms.
I should've said,,, " a football knowledge/smarts owner"... sorry 
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What we need is a "hands on Owner".....
Then you'd be griping about the "idiot owner" every time we go through this. Some people already are.
Let's face facts. We are several players shy of being competitive. Despite our investment in the QB position we have a huge problem there. We need linebackers. We need a RT and RG. Oh, and I'm not convinced yet that we don't need a RB. That's the absolute minimum.
These were the same problems we had last year.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Why is everyone so convinced that Anderson can't be the answer. Can anyone tell me why? Just because he wasn't a first round pick doesn't mean he can't be the long term answer. How can anyone say that Anderson is done developing?
He's played in 2 full seasons worth of games, most of them starts. Brady has played in 7. DA is DA... he's nothing more, nothing less. He'll always have a rocket arm and he'll always have subpar accuracy with a tendency to throw interceptions. That's how he is and at this point, even if you think that he's the better QB right now, he'll never be good enough to consistently perform.
That's what kills me about what Mangini did. He has virtually no sample size on Brady, yet went and put the whole team into panic mode halfway through Week 3. Yes, Brady has been absolutely terrible... a large part of that is because he lacks the confidence to air the ball out. So, what better to do to a guy that lacks confidence and plays scared than to bench him?
Brady might not be the answer and he sure as heck doesn't look like it right now, but sometimes it takes guys more than 3 games a year to have the lights go on. The season is flushed anyway and the last thing we need is to put DA in and have him do what he did on Sunday for the rest of the year.
Let Brady play out the season. If he sucks, you draft a QB (probably #1 overall). If he's good, you're set. If you look at it that way, it's very cut and dry. If you throw in re-testing Anderson into the equation, it gets really ugly, which was the exact problem that plagued Savage and Romeo.
I just can't believe we're repeating our mistakes all over again 3 games into the year.
We're... we're good?
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And who's responsible for all those same problems....????
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Honestly the QB is only discussed because that's the easiest position to pin point. We all know that though. I don't want to draft another QB for 3 years. That should be the last priority. We need a defense first and foremost. A nasty defense that can keep the score at 20 or less, like Pittsburgh. I like the D coordinator now we need to get him some horses. Get a defense and the QB wont matter much. Ben isn't as great as he is made out to be. That defense puts him in positions to look good by keeping the score close. Roethlisbeger loves throwing pick his dang self. If he was in Cleveland he would have been cruicified 3 years ago.
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j/c...
Do you Anderson guys even watch the game? You blast Quinn for not throwing downfield. DA comes in and checks down quite a bit.
When he does throw downfield, it was in double or triple coverage. (3 INT's).
Anyone think that maybe, just maybe, its our receivers not getting open downfield?
Neither QB can be successful with this team.
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Yep I watched the game and I saw Anderson drive the team downfield for 72 yards in one drive which equalled Quinns whole first half. Yes he did check down a bit and he hit his check downs which was one of the weaknesses people love to complain about. When he had the opportunity to go downfield he took the shots and he did complete some of them. How many times did Quinn take a shot downfield? Have you watched the games? Quinn rarely takes a shot. Foxworth, the CB for Baltimore knew Quinn wont throw downfield that's why he stood there and didn't follow Edwards downfield. Instead he stood there and basically expected Quinn to throw him the ball. So yes I did watch the game and I did see DA complete some passes downfield and he did throw some picks. The guy hasn't played with the starting O in over 1 month, what did you expect? I bet you if DA starts against Cincy that the Browns score at least 2 touchdowns. I'm willing to put money on this. We can exchange addresses so you can send me my check, name your price.
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j/c...
Do you Anderson guys even watch the game? You blast Quinn for not throwing downfield. DA comes in and checks down quite a bit.
When he does throw downfield, it was in double or triple coverage. (3 INT's).
Anyone think that maybe, just maybe, its our receivers not getting open downfield?
Neither QB can be successful with this team.
Great post. I noticed that as well. Derek did not get the ball out as quickly as some people are giving him credit for. There were a lot of times where he held on to the ball as long if not longer than BQ did.
I honestly think that both Qb are Seeing the same thing. Nobody open. One is unwilling to force it, and one throws it deep no matter what.
Both approaches are ineffective.
We can lay all the blame we want at the feet of Quinn and Anderson, but a long hard look needs to be taken at the receivers and the offensive scheme.
The QB are contributing to the problem, but they are not the sole reason.
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I honestly think that both Qb are Seeing the same thing. Nobody open. One is unwilling to force it, and one throws it deep no matter what.
Thank you. I've been saying the same thing for two weeks.
gmstrong -----------------
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That's legit about where to place blame. I think the Cribbs experiment can be over. Why not put MoMass on there and at least dress Robiskie so that I don't have to be so ticked when I see Malaleuga making plays while Robiskie isn't even dressing. Gosh what a dumb decision it was to pass up on Malaleuga when we need younger faster linebackers.
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I honestly think that both Qb are Seeing the same thing. Nobody open. One is unwilling to force it, and one throws it deep no matter what.
Both approaches are ineffective.
I don't know if they both are seeing the same thing at times..I think there are times when recievers come open but it's not at the height of the now I think that is whats happenin to Quinn..he's either not getting the ball out quickly or he sees the wideout covered at the point it should be thrown.. his first pick was a bad decision..once the guy stops you have to expect the corner to break on the ball..now a pump fake might freeze him but if you don't have time..you're sacked..
DA will just force a ball into coverage to see if he can come up with a play..I keep saying his IQ is low..
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Since I know you're all dying to hear my take on things (  ) I agree with many others. DA is more exciting, but he's going to break your heart. He might get us some wins, but he's also going to greatly contribute to our losses. With Quinn, he's going to play it safe. It isn't going to be flashy, but it will hopefully be effective. The problem is, it hasn't been effective. I've always said if he never throws more than 5 yards a pass, but he marches us down the field and we get TDs, then I'm happy. I don't need long bombs to make me feel good about this team. So, we can start DA and ride the roller coaster, or we can stick with Quinn and go into the unknown. Frankly, seems to me that this season is about finding out what we need to draft next year. Put in Quinn, put in MoMass and Robo, put in Francies, put in Veikune, etc. If we're going to suck, let's suck with an eye to the future. JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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NRTU I'm inclined to agree with the nobody open thing a bit. That first pick DA threw i couldn't complain about it too much because what business did Furrey have getting shaken down by a linebacker? I can definitely question his pick later into trips coverage and what not. I think what we're seeing right now is Braylon getting bottled up and the remaining WRs out there either aren't talented enough to play the position or aren't as well seasoned in the NFL. This comes down to 2 things: 1) Experimenting with Cribbs at receiver 2) losing Winslow, who for the past few seasons was really our #2 WR for all intents we are a passing offense with one proven target, and teams are taking away Braylon Edwards every down they can find. Thats why Quinn checks down like a mad hatter and thats why DA couldn't get BE 1on1 deep. I really hope we can see what either MoMass or Robiskie has, but I fear this season is only going to get worse cuz I can't help but think Mangini, Kokinis, and Lerner have written off this season and are just trying to determine whos staying or going. 
#gmstrong
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It comes down to how the opposing defense can play us:
DA = they must respect the deep ball b/c he has the arm to throw it. Can't just sit underneath and wait for a dump off.
BQ = no need to respect anything past 5 yards. And when you play a good D like the Ravens, they just eat that up alive.
I don't think anyone is saying DA is the next coming of Montana, but he is the lesser of two evils at this point. Now should that change come next draft? I think so.
We do know Mangini really liked Ratliff as well... wonder if we'll see him at some point this year?
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And our WRs/TEs aren't lighting it up either as others have said. We have 1 threat and that's Edwards. After that, not much there. Our #2 threat (Winslow) was promptly traded and by doing so, we lost a significant threat downfield. Say what you want about K2 but the kid can go get the ball and is strong. Instead of Mangini & Co just immediately dismissing him, maybe they should have thought long and hard about it. We aren't the Giants after all...
We just don't have much to throw to right now...
Edwards = only significant threat
Furrey = reliable hands for short yardage (similar to Joe J)
Cribbs = not sure this experiment is working at WR
MoMass = not playing much, no idea if the kid can help us right now or not
Robiskie = not even on the game day squad, so that's no use
Royal = serviceable TE, but no K2 that's for sure
Heiden = see Royal
It really boils down to Edwards being the only legit threat this team has. And we know DA loves Edwards, but it's hard to zero in on 1 guy when every team you are playing knows you are going to do that. Losing K2 was a substantial loss to the passing game and we are witnessing this right now.
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Quote:
I honestly think that both Qb are Seeing the same thing. Nobody open. One is unwilling to force it, and one throws it deep no matter what.
Both approaches are ineffective.
I don't know if they both are seeing the same thing at times..I think there are times when recievers come open but it's not at the height of the now I think that is whats happenin to Quinn..he's either not getting the ball out quickly or he sees the wideout covered at the point it should be thrown.. his first pick was a bad decision..once the guy stops you have to expect the corner to break on the ball..now a pump fake might freeze him but if you don't have time..you're sacked..
DA will just force a ball into coverage to see if he can come up with a play..I keep saying his IQ is low..
I understand that completely, and I bet that the window to make the throw is very small on 75 to 80 percent of passing plays for most teams.
The other 20 to 25 % of the time there is a guy open in large window. Now maybe that number is skewed because I am used to watching the other teams play against the browns defense, but the fact still remains why don't we see atleast 5 to 6 throws a game where the receiver is wide open.
is it.
1. They are open and neither QB is seeing it.
2. Our receivers are ineffective at getting open.
3. Our schemes are not currently confusing the Defense.
I am sure it is some combination of all three, but it seems like most people only want to blame the QB.
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And who's responsible for all those same problems....????
Do you bring more to the table than Lerner-bashing?
Seriously man, you must have something else to say.
gmstrong -----------------
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I think it's all three..but I have to say I've seen DA in action for a full year and a half..and I know he doesn't read coverages well, and he'll force a throw.
Brady..I just don't know what to make of it..it's like he doesn't feel he can get the ball there..
Now the recievers..I really don't see them running routes that help either QB...I want to see what Robo has..we need to flood the recievers and take shots.
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And who's responsible for all those same problems....????
Do you bring more to the table than Lerner-bashing?
Seriously man, you must have something else to say.
who's bashing who ??? 
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I'm really not trying to insult you.
gmstrong -----------------
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I'm really not trying to insult you.
Oh really,, u accused my of Bashing-Lerner...
How did I ?????
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Oh, yeah you're right I guess, most of your posts haven't been about calling out Lerner.
gmstrong -----------------
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Oh, yeah you're right I guess, most of your posts haven't been about calling out Lerner.
Why not ??? everyone either wants to call out BQ or DA.. How about getting to the root of the problems ??? 
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Why is everyone so convinced that Anderson can't be the answer. Can anyone tell me why? Just because he wasn't a first round pick doesn't mean he can't be the long
It has nothing to do with his draft staus, forget that, anybody who says it does dosent know thier head from thier........toes.
Alot of us are not saying he can't,. but we drafted Brady to be the QB of the future, so it's time to see what he has or dosent have. Anderson has made his own bed with bad desisions in the past which have lead to big interceptions, some were game changers, Seems DA can be a little bit of a head case, He get to confident in his arm that he thinks he can push any ball thru any coverage, than he gets a few picked off, which leads to one of two things with DA, a quick release or holding on too long and getting sacked, which I do believe is part O-Cordinators fault, but thats another thread,
i'm starting to see everyone thinking maybe we dont have a future QB period and need to draft another, which might also be right.
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All Lerner can do is hire the guys he thinks can get it done. He can't play linebacker. Or be the coach.
And speaking of our coach we're eight months into Mangini's tenure. I'd say giving him a chance would be the wisest choice.
gmstrong -----------------
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Al ???????????? I wish he was still alive... good one.. 
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Al ???????????? I wish he was still alive... good one..
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It comes down to how the opposing defense can play us:
DA = they must respect the deep ball b/c he has the arm to throw it. Can't just sit underneath and wait for a dump off.
BQ = no need to respect anything past 5 yards. And when you play a good D like the Ravens, they just eat that up alive.
Well, that's objective. 
How about this...
DA = Play the run and take away the deep routes, make him go 4 or 5 yards at a time and wait for him to screw it up, because he will.
yebat' Putin
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oh,,, ALL,,,, not AL.... my bad as the kids would say...
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