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yebat' Putin
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Let's see if he can get it right the second time... This is a doover..you remember when you were a kid and you didn't get the result you wanted on your first try..so you trick your mind into thinking it didn't really count..That's what is happening.
If you had that #22 pick back right now..would you pick Quinn or someone else? Tony Ugoh, Dwayne Bowe, Lamaar Woodley,
I had Chris Johnson..but he was a year later.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 09/28/09 11:43 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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If you had that #22 pick back right now..would you pick Quinn or someone else? Chris Johnson? Tony Ugoh, Dwayne Bowe, Lamaar Woodley,
Ok.. I'll play.
To start with, I wouldn't have had the #22 pick because if I didn't want Quinn, there was no need to trade up. Therefore, I sit still at #36 and STILL get Tony Ugoh.. Now I've got JT, Steiny, Ugoh and Fraley... I'm pretty set at OL.
So now I still have my first rounder in '08 because I didn't trade it away in '07.... For the sake of argument we'll say it's still the #22 pick.. I take that pick and some additional compensation and I trade up to the #15 spot with the Chiefs and I take Joe Flacco ahead of the Ravens.. I have now made us significantly better and kept the Ravens significantly worse...
This hindsight drafting is fun.. 
yebat' Putin
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Good answer! 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
Let's see if he can get it right the second time... This is a doover..you remember when you were a kid and you didn't get the result you wanted on your first try..so you trick your mind into thinking it didn't really count..That's what is happening.
If you had that #22 pick back right now..would you pick Quinn or someone else? Tony Ugoh, Dwayne Bowe, Lamaar Woodley,
I had Chris Johnson..but he was a year later.
Honestly I thought Savage had scored on that deal. It was a ballsy move, to bad it didnt work out. Who knew Anderson was going to step it up that year, and create a controversy, or that Quinn in his third year still wouldnt be ready to play decent ball. I just thank god we didnt end up with Russell.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Legend
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I just thank god we didnt end up with Russell.
Yea because then we would have a guy who has had plenty of time on the field to prove himself, still sucks.. and is costing millions more than Quinn. 
yebat' Putin
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2nd String
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Let's see if he can get it right the second time... This is a doover..
Can I go back all the way to 1999 and draft Ricky Williams instead of Tim Couch? Ricky is still contributing with the Dolphins, and who knows how his career would have turned out if he had Jim Brown mentoring him..
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who knows how his career would have turned out if he had Jim Brown mentoring him..
Yeah, Jim did so much for Maurice Clarett........ 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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who knows how his career would have turned out if he had Jim Brown mentoring him..
Yeah, Jim did so much for Maurice Clarett........
I am really laugh that hard! You beat me to it...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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JC...The way I would handle this is start Quinn ...thats what this season is for to see what he is..
Now if he sputters and spurts, then they have to have in their minds are they gonna ride it out, or do they want DA to come in?
You can't do this every game..
If they feel he needs more time , they can go to DA and work Quinn in..
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All Pro
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JC...The way I would handle this is start Quinn ...thats what this season is for to see what he is..
Now if he sputters and spurts, then they have to have in their minds are they gonna ride it out, or do they want DA to come in?
You can't do this every game..
If they feel he needs more time , they can go to DA and work Quinn in..
They gotta stick with somebody. I don't care who it is, but they gotta stick with one guy and and march forward. No more flip-flopping. Since they already told Quinn he won the competition let him take his lumps. I'm not a fan with how he's played but you gotta show faith in your starter or things are going to get a lot worse. It's not like we have the talent to compete this year anyway.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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The reality is thats the only way they're gonna find out what he is..however in that process they've got to give him the slack that DA got..Mangenius was criticized for being a control freak..players were afraid to make mistakes..is this the biggest factor for the QB?
I mentioned it last week..it keeps coming to mind..if Quinn played this way last year I'be leaning that he's a bust..but he didn't..so why the regression?
New HC who's a perfectionist..new OC who probably is no better than what we've had..
Bad personnel decisions..starting Cribbs instead of Mass/Robo...and yes if Robo is having a hard time with the playbook..get him in there sometime..see if he can produce in a game situation..
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Legend
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I say start Quinn... but if he has to be taken out again...  OUCH!!!
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Legend
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I say start Quinn... but if he has to be taken out again... OUCH!!!
Call him toast at that point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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2nd String
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's see if he can get it right the second time... This is a doover..
Can I go back all the way to 1999 and draft Ricky Williams instead of Tim Couch? Ricky is still contributing with the Dolphins, and who knows how his career would have turned out if he had Jim Brown mentoring him..
can i go back to the 99 season and trade my no. 1 overall to ditka for his entire draft so he can select ditka, and I have 7 more picks?
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Legend
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Can I go back to '95 and send some thugs to Modells office to "convince" him he needs to leave the team in Cleveland?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I say start Quinn... but if he has to be taken out again... OUCH!!!
Call him toast at that point.
He'll be well-done toast. I can see putting him back in for one more start but it'll be hard to justify much more if his production doesn't increase. The problem with that is I don't see him becoming an overnight success at this point. Add to that mix the fact we won't get any trade value out of him and it doesn't bode well for him in the Not For Long league.
The other problem is I don't see Anderson going away quietly. If he gets on the field again he's going to try to make something happen. It might be "good Derek" or it might be "bad Derek" but he's going to make something happen. You can say all sorts of things about his skill set but there isn't any quit in him.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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It might be "good Derek" or it might be "bad Derek" but he's going to make something happen. You can say all sorts of things about his skill set but there isn't any quit in him.
And there doesn't seem to be a whole lotta smart in him either.. 
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j/c...
No QB will be successful on this team. Right side of the line can't block. Our RB is 84 years old. Double Braylon, and we have ZERO weapons.
Hell, start Cribbs this week, and run the Navy triple option. It might be our only hope.
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Hell, start Cribbs this week, and run the Navy triple option. It might be our only hope.
With Davis and Harrison in there... Lets do it!!
We can get one win just by the element of surprise alone... lol..
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J/C
I honestly don't think it matters who the QB is. Both have the same lack of talent around them. Cribbs is nothing more than a STer. Teams are double/triple teaming the one threat we have on offense (BE). Our RB's are either 1. old, 2. unproven. Our line isn't THAT bad. Could the right side be better? Of course, but other than JT what on our offense couldnt be better?
This lack of talent IMO allows teams like the ravens to double Edwards, cover our other recievers with 1 player (without fear of them getting open), and bring extra people on the blitz. A recipe for disaster for any QB.
Granted I'm no evaluator of QB's, but I'll try to give my honest thoughts on both of em.
Quinn, for whatever reason, is afraid to throw downfield. Whether it's coaching or something in his head I'm not sure. I know he has regressed from last year. 2 of our better games offensively came with him under center. I feel that this year he must've got the feeling he was on a short leash, and was afraid to make the big mistake, while also losing the opportunity at the big play. He CAN overcome it, but I don't know if he can here.
DA is like the guy at a party, who takes shot after shot, and ends up around a toilet at 9pm. Not afraid to take a chance, but also doesn't care about the consequences. So while he has games like the Giants game last year, he also has games like Sunday. If he could ever become consistent, he could be a great QB. As of now, he is what he is, an inconsistent gunslinger.
Really it's like picking between two turds. Which one's the better turd? I have no idea, they suck equally in completely different ways.
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After problem # 1& # 2 ( Ownership and HC ) you have a suck ass Rookie OC for starters 
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It might be "good Derek" or it might be "bad Derek" but he's going to make something happen. You can say all sorts of things about his skill set but there isn't any quit in him.
And there doesn't seem to be a whole lotta smart in him either..
See, I knew someone would have something to say.
We're between the Devil and the deep blue sea with our QB selection. I don't know that either one is really the answer as they both have some "issues".
I'm so tired of lousy Browns football I don't know what to do next.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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I'm telling you all Quinn does not trust his WR's... reason why he checks down to his RB's and TE all the time..
Someone mention that Quinn has regressed.. no.
Quinn came into 2008 after a great Browns 2007 season.. Braylon was at the top of his game... and we had Joe J. to work the field and get first downs. Quinn was happy....
Now here comes 2009, and Edwards is now just an average WR.. Joe J. is gone... And now a special teams/ slot guy in Cribbs is now ur main target... How can a QB have confidence in a WR that caused Derek Anderson to lose his spot w/ dropped balls, and a special teamer who has not developed as a WR.
Trade Edwards!! or he is going to leave and we get nothing in return... What do we have to lose? Who cares if he does well else where? I don't... I just care about bringing better players on this team who will help win and show some fire on the field!!
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I agree about trading Edwards, it's painfully obvious he doesn't want to be here. Quinn's int showed that IMO.
As far as Quinn regressing, perhaps you are right. I just go by what I see. I'm no football mind to be sure, but you make a valid point. That's the problem with watching on TV, can't see if anyone is open down the field. Judging by DA's forcing the ball...probably not.
He has NOONE in the WR department. I'd love to see Massoquai more. He can't be worse than what is out there. Cribbs is not a WR...
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I'm so tired of lousy Browns football I don't know what to do next.
Stop watching..I used to watch the Indians...I don't watch any of their minor league games..I mean regular games..seriously ,I won't watch one inning..
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Joe J didn't play in 2008...
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j/c,...I don't understand why he cannot make that decision today. Is ONE day of Tuesday practice the determining factor here ? I hope not,...
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You obviously don't understand the competitive advantage we get by keeping the Bengals' DC in the dark about who's starting at QB for us. Poor guy is probably running around their facility saying "What'll I do? Who do I prepare for?!? For God's sake, is there any news from Cleveland??".
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Good one,...
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Legend
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You obviously don't understand the competitive advantage we get by keeping the Bengals' DC in the dark about who's starting at QB for us. Poor guy is probably running around their facility saying "What'll I do? Who do I prepare for?!? For God's sake, is there any news from Cleveland??".
Deciding which waterboy to play at LB for them would be tough without knowing the QB. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Here is something I"m pretty sure about.
There are 2 types of scenarios for QB's that are successful in the league.
The first is when they come into the league, they just light it up.. guys like Marino and Payton Manning did that. Kosar and Jim Kelly are that way as well.
The second is when the come into the league they show real flashes of brilliance but the wins don't come because of a weak supporting cast and growing pains.... Ely Manning, John Elway etc,, they fit that mold.. Remember when Elway came into Denver... he was the savior....LOL after two years the fans wanted him hanged... Ely came in with all the hoopla,, didn't look too good at all at first... then he wins a superbowl....
The cream always seems to rise......
Do either of our guys remind you of any of these? To me,, DA is closer to the second one right now.. Quinn isn't either in my mind.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And here you go..DA isn't a copy of any of the QB's U listed..he fits neither of those molds..he'll always be a streaky gun slinging type who isn't able to control his arm..and takes too many chances..
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he'll always be a streaky gun slinging type who isn't able to control his arm..and takes too many chances..
After 1.5 years of starting experience, you know this how?
You don't---it's pure speculation on your part.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Hmmm lets see..maybe it's cuze I actually watch the play on the field , and not only understand what I see but able to look at the information ,compile it and sort things out..instead of playing guessing games and trying to analize things without any facts to go on..and being stubborn..want more?
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Quote:
Quote:
he'll always be a streaky gun slinging type who isn't able to control his arm..and takes too many chances..
After 1.5 years of starting experience, you know this how?
You don't---it's pure speculation on your part.
But you KNOW about Quinn after 6 starts?
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Hmmm lets see..maybe it's cuze I actually watch the play on the field , and not only understand what I see but able to look at the information ,compile it and sort things out..instead of playing guessing games and trying to analize things without any facts to go on..and being stubborn..want more?
Suuuuuuuuuuuure you do.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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I believe Peyton Manning's first year in the league, the Colts went 3-13 or something like that. He threw for more than 3,000 yards, but he threw 28 picks to 26 TDs.
But, I've heard him say that that year was probably his *best* year because he made a ton of mistakes, but he learned from them.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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DA was close to that line.
BQ is on pace to be way, way short of it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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i've read the same thing too. if only we had a rookie who could do that (not being sarcastic). it shows you the talent always shines through. sure he threw 28 picks, which he learned from as a rookie but he also threw for over 3000 yards and also threw 26 tds, showing he belonged in the league.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini: QB decision on Wednesday
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