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I figured I might as well make my first post count, so here it is:
Why the hell do we insist on running a 3-4 defense. This is a defense that virtually no one runs in college and thus it takes very good scouting and coaching in order for it to be successful in the NFL (we seem to have neither). Yes, the 3-4 has some benefits, but all of those benefits come at the expense of ease of implementation, which for a team that has struggled as much as the Browns have on defense should be a priority. Think about it, how do you get a good 3-4 OLB? You take a chance with a college DE that is quick and can work on his feet (but who is not a OLB and thus is a risk). How do you get a NT? You take a big DT and hope they can play over center with a constant double team.
The entire system is built upon being able to scout and develop players that me be slightly out of whack for a traditional 4-3, but could fit the odd roles in a 3-4, which in theory saves you money and high draft picks. The problem is that with the popularity of the 3-4 now, you not only have to have great scouts and coaches, but you also still have to pay in high draft picks and salaries for these 3-4 guys. So in essence, the 3-4 is a complete waste of time/money/draft picks for a team like the Browns that have almost seemingly poor scouting/drafting and an inability to develop out of position players.
I would like to see us scrap the 3-4 and go back to a traditional 4-3 in order to lighten the load on our scouts and give us an opportunity to quickly improve on defense without having to hope guys we draft/sign can play out of position.
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"Why the hell do we insist on running a 3-4 defense."
Cause we would do worse in the 4-3.
And for that matter have.
btw - we do run a 4 man DL from time to time, we have it in our system. If the team was better in it - we would be in it.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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let me be the first to welcome you... Welcome  Not being a master of understanding about the 3-4, But having hung around here enough,, Would we not have to almost start over on D to move to a 4-3 now. Wasn't the time for this BEFORE training camp?
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I've never liked the 3-4 personally even though it allows you to do more. The 3-4 isn't meant for everybody.
If we went to the 4-3 it could look like this:
DE- Wimbley
DT- Coleman
DT- Rogers
DE- Veikune
OlB- DQ
MLB- Barton
OLB- Alex hall????
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I don't know..he has a point..We have a natural 4-3 DE in Williams..Slide Rubin or Robaire Smith in at DT next to Rogers and move Wimbley down to the other DE spot..the big question is who plays which LB spot..Jackson in the middle obviously but then what?
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I like the versatility of the 3-4.. I want to stay with it...
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I think it would be more like this:
DE: Wimbley
DT: Rogers
DT: Williams
DE: Coleman
WILL: D'Qwell
MIKE: Barton
SAM: Hall
And I think our defense would be much worst then.
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Quote:
And I think our defense would be much worst then.
 seriously.. 
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I don't know..he has a point..We have a natural 4-3 DE in Williams..Slide Rubin or Robaire Smith in at DT next to Rogers and move Wimbley down to the other DE spot..the big question is who plays which LB spot..Jackson in the middle obviously but then what?
Ok, I'll play.....though I consider a 3-4 defense better at the NFL level and most teams run some sort of both anyway...
it's more about responsibilities of positions as to what defense you are truly running.
DT Rogers and Corey Williams
DT's do more than clog the middle...they need to move the pocket on passing downs and change the running lanes and occupying the interior OL to let the LBs move freely behind them.
Corey played DT for the Pack in a 4-3 and was pretty successful getting QB pressure from that spot. He has some issues with run defense there, but I think it's his best spot since Rogers will always get double teamed.
DE Coleman and ???Wimbley I guess?
Coleman would do okay as a strongside DE, though he is more of a 3-4 DE due to his lack of quickness. He'd still be strong in run support (so put Corey on his side of the field with Rogers wreaking havoc from the weakside DT spot).
The problem is the other spot....I don't know that Wimbley is really strong enough on the point of attack to be a DE....I know that with Coleman on the other side that we need a pass rusher there and he's our only shot at it....so he gets it be default, but it would be a huge, huge weakness (counter runs would destroy us).
MLB
D'Qwell....he is a natural 4-3 MLB anyway (IMO), so this would be a good spot for him. he's got good instincts and can flow to the ball with hopefully more open lanes for him to run through to the ball carrier. And he would have more TE coverage responsibility, but he's actually pretty good in coverage, so that would be a good thing.
WLB
Maiava - I know he's a STer now, but he would absolutely move here if we ran a 4-3...we need speed galore from the weakside as they will often be following/chasing the play....and he definitely has that. My biggest concern would be how he would do in coverage (he'd be responsible for the back slipping out in the flat), but that concern is because I just don't know if he could or could not handle it.
SLB - Barton??? Alex Hall?
Another weak spot....this is often a guy who covers the TE and the guy who takes on any pulling OG on run plays to the outside. He's gotta be fast enough to not get beat to the corner, but strong enough to take on that blocker (and shed him and make the tackle). I'd like to think Alex Hall could man this spot, but I'm not sure he'd be ready for it. So, Barton would have to take it on and hopefully Hall would come along.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I think it would be more like this:
DE: Wimbley
DT: Rogers
DT: Williams
DE: Coleman
WILL: D'Qwell
MIKE: Barton
SAM: Hall
And I think our defense would be much worst then.
I disagree, because I think Veikune played DE in college. Also Wimbley would be playing his natural position. Rogers and Williams in the middle would be very hard to run against. Hall's athleticism could help become better against the pass and DQ would be perfect as a 4-3 OLB.
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Dude, just give it up. Zach Follett for crying out loud? There is a reason that no other teams want him. You are blinded.
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It's not the 3-4,but how we're using it. The 3-4 allows for more flexability with the linebackers. We are still running a base 3-4, with 3 DL and an OLB rushing the QB on almost every play. We should have a better blitz package in place, and use it more often. We are not disguising blitzs, at least not since the minnisota game. This would change an opposing offenses protection schemes, which is what the 3-4 is designed to do.
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I see no problem with the scheme to be honest. The problem is the talent and the execution.
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Dude, just give it up. Zach Follett for crying out loud? There is a reason that no other teams want him. You are blinded.
Wrong thread I think 
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No, I was just using him as an example for my case. He and Sean Jones are all that need be said.
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I agree that we still wouldn't have a good D this year with either scheme, but I think the 4-3 is easier to get future talent for (because it involves less projection). I do think though that our run defense would be vastly improved with current personnel in a 4-3 (if at the expense of a pass rush).
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I can agree with parts of that. Our run defense would be better, but our linebackers would be a lost cause in coverage and our pass rush would fail. And it is easier to project talent for the 4-3. What I disagree with is how well we could do in a 4-3. Our run defense would be slightly better, but our pass defense would be so much worst. We don't have the personnel for the 4-3 at all.
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I see no problem with the scheme to be honest. The problem is the talent and the execution.
To get it fixed properly..the LB's/ DB's need to be weeded out ...get Barton out..then get Wimbley out..as well as the DB's..they can all go IMO..once the Browns get physical players at the second level the 34 will click..
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Quote:
I see no problem with the scheme to be honest. The problem is the talent and the execution.
It's DA's fault.
Or Brady Quinn's fault.
Depending on who you ask. 
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No, I was just using him as an example for my case. He and Sean Jones are all that need be said.
I would pick Follett over Veikune and Maiava ANYDAY day of the week and twice on Sunday...
Agree w/ it or not...
Same w/ Sean Jones... I would pick him over Elam...
Some of you all are just haters.. I could make a post and say the sky is blue.. and then you all would disagree... Nonsense on this board just b/c someone has an opinion about players. Who are you or anyone else to say whether I'm right or wrong for wanting to keep or pick up someone..
You are criticizing my evaluation of Follett b/c the Lions put him on PS? so what... The guy produced on the field.. and that is why I like him..He has given me a reason to believe he can produce on the field b/c he has!!
i like Sean Jones b/c he plays with fire and emotion... We need more of that on this team.. one of the reasons I want Berry and Spikes.. I want confident guys on this team.. and plus he can knock the living daylight of people...
He's underrated and disrespected on this board.. to each his own.. but I valued his play here..
Alot of people said Antonio Bryant was garbage.. yet had a GREAT season last year... Some of you all on here are a trip. You think you know everything, and therefore spit on other peoples opinions.. Its getting old.
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Quote:
Some of you all are just haters.. I could make a post and say the sky is blue.. and then you all would disagree... Nonsense on this board just b/c someone has an opinion about players. Who are you or anyone else to say whether I'm right or wrong for wanting to keep or pick up someone..
No Turk people disagree with you when you say stupid stuff. Such as saying Adiran Peterson is like Michael freaking Jordan the G.O.A.T! 
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Im with you. Not many coaches can coach the 3-4. Lerner wanted a coach that would stick with the 3-4, maybe only because Pittsburgh does it????? I would like to hear is awnser on why he wanted a coach that would stick with the 3-4, which is one reason Mangini was brought in. Lerner probably thought that the switch would be a big overhaul which would mean more rebuilding.
I dont think it would take much to make the switch and I thin the Browns could do it in one offseason. As of now, they dont have depth at DT if one of the starters goes down. They have alot of LBs that arent good. Dummervill was said too small to play DE in the 3-4 and I think Wimbley is bigger, so why not try him at his natural position. I dont think the team has to make much of an overhaul to do a switch if they needed to next year. Its not like they have a bunch of defenders that are keepers anyways. Im just more familiar with the 4-3 and like it better. Its also easier to find players that fit in 4-3 systems unless you have the right people upstairs that know what to look for.
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Promise you at the end of his career.. they will be putting him up there with the GREATEST RUNNING BACKS EVER!!
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Quote:
Quote:
No, I was just using him as an example for my case. He and Sean Jones are all that need be said.
I would pick Follett over Veikune and Maiava ANYDAY day of the week and twice on Sunday...
Agree w/ it or not...
Same w/ Sean Jones... I would pick him over Elam...
Some of you all are just haters.. I could make a post and say the sky is blue.. and then you all would disagree... Nonsense on this board just b/c someone has an opinion about players. Who are you or anyone else to say whether I'm right or wrong for wanting to keep or pick up someone..
You are criticizing my evaluation of Follett b/c the Lions put him on PS? so what... The guy produced on the field.. and that is why I like him..He has given me a reason to believe he can produce on the field b/c he has!!
i like Sean Jones b/c he plays with fire and emotion... We need more of that on this team.. one of the reasons I want Berry and Spikes.. I want confident guys on this team.. and plus he can knock the living daylight of people...
He's underrated and disrespected on this board.. to each his own.. but I valued his play here..
Alot of people said Antonio Bryant was garbage.. yet had a GREAT season last year... Some of you all on here are a trip. You think you know everything, and therefore spit on other peoples opinions.. Its getting old.
Yeah, I mean it's not like you think you could be an NFL GM or something....
Oh wait.
Stop being the martyr here. You sound foolish trying to play the victim when the only person to blame is you. You would not like Sean Jones if he didn't go to UGA. What fire and passion did he ever show here? Maybe that one locker room video, but on the field, he was the same piece of garbage as everyone else on the field. And he constantly go burned by tight ends and while Elam isn't a beast, you don't see any tight ends streaking down the middle anymore, do you?
And at least Maiava can produce on special teams, unlike a certain ex-Cal Linebacker. Maybe you should think before you speak because some of the things you say is just so damn outrageous.
you had a good run Hank.
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so none of you would want Follett?
Get real! Maiva is garbage.. Veikune is overrated.. again.. would pick him anyday..
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What is Follett doing again? I will put money that Veikune and Maiava both go on to better things than Follett. There is a reason that he was a 7th rounder while they were 2nd and 4th rounders.
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yea.. its simple.. Mangini think they are smart players.. so he drafted them..
You know Veikune shouldn't have been taken where he was... Can u atleast admit that? lol.
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Nope. Many people had him ranked that high as a tweener.
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Quote:
so none of you would want Follett?
Get real! Maiva is garbage.. Veikune is overrated.. again.. would pick him anyday..
And Follett is on the Lions practice squad. This isn't a good vs bad argument, it's a backup vs practice squad argument. Saying that the Browns would be better with Follett than Maiava and Veikune is outrageous speculation.
you had a good run Hank.
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speculation yes....
but compare Folletts collegiate stats to Veikune and Maivas...
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Quote:
Nope. Many people had him ranked that high as a tweener.
I hated taking Veikune at round 2. You're on your own here.
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Quote:
speculation yes....
but compare Folletts collegiate stats to Veikune and Maivas...
Maiava was twice the player Follett was in college, and I don't need Stats to back that up. Veikune was a college defensive end that is moving to linebacker instead of being a pure linebacker. If you want to compare them with impact, then Follett was probably the better player in college.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
but compare Folletts collegiate stats to Veikune and Maivas...
Compare Andre Ware's to Tom Bradys.
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okay... sooo....
Maiva was TWICE the player Follett was.. but how come a lot of us didnt even know who he was when we drafted him?
If you are TWICE the player Follett was... why wasnt he drafted higher than any of the other LB's he played with, ie Mauluga, Cushing, Matthews...
Lets be honest with each other.. Maiva has a slim to none chance of being anything more than a backup on this team...
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I was all for it. I'm fine with being on my own, as long as I'm right.
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Quote:
Quote:
but compare Folletts collegiate stats to Veikune and Maivas...
Compare Andre Ware's to Tom Bradys.
Im still wondring why the Browns took Spergon Wynn over Brady. Yeah, I didnt think Brady would be this good and he wouldnt have won SBs on this team and would probabley be on his 2nd team if not out of the NFL if picked by the Browns, but even when the pick happened I said, "why would you take this nobody over a QB who has played in big games against more NFL ready talent?"
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Lets be honest with each other.. Maiva has a slim to none chance of being anything more than a backup on this team...
he's a starter though.....on STs (just ribbing you)
i agree that Maiava is a WLB for a 4-3 defense. Not sure he'll ever be strong enough to start at ILB in a 3-4.
#gmstrong
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and when Brady was drafted... Someone would be out of their freaking mines to say that Brady would have all the rings he has...
Maiva, Veikune, and Follett are all rookies.. so based on the argument of speculation... Follett would be the guy...
but regardless.. I hope the guys we have on this team all become pro bowlers...
Now do I sound crazy saying that I hope all of our players will all become pro bowlers? or that Follett is the best player based on collegiate stats?
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Quote:
I was all for it. I'm fine with being on my own, as long as I'm right.
There is no right or wrong answer with what I was saying 
I do think Veikune will pan out but I just think it's a big risk considering we could have drafted a RT in round 2 and get veikune in round 3. Unfortunately neither of us can prove that he would have slipped further so their is no right or wrong answer.
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j/c
I personally prefer the UFO defense. We are set for that now. Players line up where they want and look completely disorganized. HEY... are we running the UFO Offense?
Seriously, I'd like to run the 4-3 again. We have went nowhere with the 3-4 in five years... nowhere! The 4-3 is a basic defense that is easier to recruit for and coach up. It does make sense now.
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