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I don't understand why some want to put the blame on Anderson for dropped passes last week?
You ever watch Brett Favre throw short passes?
Favre throws his short passes just as hard as he throws his long passes.
Let's "try" to be realistic...DA and his WRs have not worked with each other for a long enough period to develop a good chemistry yet.
Mangini's idea of giving the WRs/TEs/RBs more time on the JUGS and more reps with Anderson is an obvious need but maybe a little late, IMO. Our guys did catch the ball better against the Bengals so you have to wonder how much the windy conditions in Buffalo affected our receivers. Regardless, weather is going to be part of the game that the players and coaches must adjust to in Cleveland or where ever we play.
I'm not going to give our WRs coach and OC a pass either. The Browns offense and passing game needs a lot of work....jmho...mac
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I don't understand why some want to put the blame on Anderson for dropped passes last week?
Mac you've seen enough ball over the years to answer that yourself.
I haven't read much that points the finger all on DA..but I have read where he had 5-8 balls dropped..but he was 2-17 so that leaves 9 that were on him and I did see the pick he threw and that was ON HIM..he never looked off the safety and just threw it hoping it'd get there ...
I've seen too much of his passes over the years behind/in the turf/high/off the wrong shoulder /too hard on short passes..and now the batted passes..
It's the same stuff over and over and yet some still try to bail him out..
While there are drops, he is also to blame for a lot of incompletions..
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DA and his WRs have not worked with each other for a long enough period to develop a good chemistry yet.
I know... I mean, it's not like they've been working together since April/May or anything 
To attempt to acquit DA of any responsibility is somewhere between outright blindness and homerism. If the same problem is afflicting ALL of the receivers, the problem, to a very large extent, ISN'T just the receivers.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You ever watch Brett Favre throw short passes?
His receivers use to say he could break your fingers with the pass. However you NEVER heard them or fans complain. The receivers were expected to shut the hell up and catch the damn ball.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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i don't think anyone is trying to acquit DA but to be realistic, you had two starting rookie receivers, a tight end who couldn't catch, and a slot receiver that was on teh team for two days. DA has his blame in the performance but it's not like he's kyle orton throwing to marshall/royal/scheffler.
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I don't understand why some want to put the blame on Anderson for dropped passes last week?
Mac you've seen enough ball over the years to answer that yourself.
I haven't read much that points the finger all on DA..but I have read where he had 5-8 balls dropped..but he was 2-17 so that leaves 9 that were on him and I did see the pick he threw and that was ON HIM..he never looked off the safety and just threw it hoping it'd get there ...
I've seen too much of his passes over the years behind/in the turf/high/off the wrong shoulder /too hard on short passes..and now the batted passes..
It's the same stuff over and over and yet some still try to bail him out..
While there are drops, he is also to blame for a lot of incompletions..
Tacker...I believe Mangini said it best in the Monday presser...
(On if the number of drops had to do with the wind)- "I think wind played a part in it. I think some of the throws could have been better. I think some of them were just a function of not looking the ball into the tuck, trying to run. I think that was a couple times, where guys were more worried about what was going to happen after the catch, instead of securing the catch. There were some throws that were right on target, we had great opportunities for and we didn't bring it in. We looked back before we put it in and it's just not going to work. We're going to wear that JUGS machine, going to get a billion balls there. They're going to get a lot of balls from D.A. (Derek Anderson). We're going to conscientiously continue to improve there and we have to do it because you can't leave those opportunities on the field."
I didn't excuse anyone and never claimed Anderson was not part of the problem. My specific comment was about the "drops". Most of us learned in high school that if you could touch the ball, as a WR you were expected to catch it. Now I'm not that hard on WRs but as Mangini said above, our WRs were making some very basic mistakes that contributed to some of the drops.
I do believe that weather played a part and may well have contributed to the Int Anderson threw as the ball hung up and ended up being too far to the inside and yes, Anderson did not look the safety off.
But just to give you an example of the Browns lack of NFL experience at WR, Mo Mass didn't exactly make a good adjustment to the pass or fight for the ball and once it was intercepted, he must have thought he was still playing in college because he didn't bother to touch the Bills safety down as he ran by the safety who went to the ground to make the Int. Because of that rookie mistake, the safety got up returned the kick about 15 yds to mid field with Mo Mass chasing him from behind.
BTW, if you watched Anderson's int. you would see that it was a play action pass and for some reason, the safety did not bite at all. I'm not sure a QB has the time to do a play action fake as he drops back, then look off the safety and hit his WR on a 35 yd seam route (from the LOS).
Also, I'm not sure Anderson was supposed to look the safety off on the play that resulted in an interception. If you notice, it was a "play action pass" where the play fake to the RB is supposed to hold the safety on that particular play. If it was a straight drop back pass with no fake to the running back, I would say you are correct in blaming Anderson for not looking off the safety. Why the safety did not bite on the play fake is a question for the OC.
I do blame Anderson for not making a "perfect" throw on that play. Had Anderson executed a perfect throw on a pass that covered 43 yds it should have been a completion.
As you can see, when we analyze the entire play, from beginning to end, there are many, many variables that play a role in the end results of that one play.
When we fans see the end result of a play such as this, we just assume it's all on the QB because that's way it plays out in the stats column. But if we begin to analyze and ask questions "why" we had an int on that play, there are contributing factors that the average fan doesn't even consider.
Anderson gets the blame for not throwing a more accurate pass that was in the air for 43 yds, on a windy day.
The Browns passing game is way behind the rest of the team when it comes to gelling. You could look at the "QB competition" as a contributing factor as to why our QB and receivers are not on the same page on every pass just yet. When everything is new..new coaches, new playbook, new players...it takes "reps" to work out the problem areas in our passing game. Splitting reps due to a QB competition, when everything is "new" leads to just what we have seen in the Browns passing game so far this season..."POOR RESULTS"...
Many fans fail to look at these realities when judging the Browns passing game as it stands "today". You must give the coaches time to correct the problem areas before making a final judgement on any of the players and coaches involved in the Browns passing game.
I would hope that Browns fans can see that our passing game has not gelled yet and is behind the running game, behind the play of our defense and behind the play of our special teams. The only way the passing game catches up is to put in more time and more reps, which seems to be Mangini's goal, beginning this week.
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(On if the number of drops had to do with the wind)- "I think wind played a part in it
Wasn't talking about why the drops occured.
I think some of the throws could have been better.
There's what I'm focusing on..some of the throws were off..some of his throws are always off..
BTW, if you watched Anderson's int. you would see that it was a play action pass and for some reason, the safety did not bite at all. I'm not sure a QB has the time to do a play action fake as he drops back, then look off the safety and hit his WR on a 35 yd seam route (from the LOS).
The LB's usually bite on those and if the QB looks over the opposite side of the field he'll freeze the safety for a second..DA 's head went to the left immediately after completed the fake and set his feet,
Anderson gets the blame for not throwing a more accurate pass that was in the air for 43 yds, on a windy day.
No Anderson gets the blame for creating the pick...just like many other picks of his..he locks onto one side of the field..
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Quote:
(On if the number of drops had to do with the wind)- "I think wind played a part in it
Wasn't talking about why the drops occured.
I think some of the throws could have been better.
There's what I'm focusing on..some of the throws were off..some of his throws are always off..
BTW, if you watched Anderson's int. you would see that it was a play action pass and for some reason, the safety did not bite at all. I'm not sure a QB has the time to do a play action fake as he drops back, then look off the safety and hit his WR on a 35 yd seam route (from the LOS).
The LB's usually bite on those and if the QB looks over the opposite side of the field he'll freeze the safety for a second..DA 's head went to the left immediately after completed the fake and set his feet,
Anderson gets the blame for not throwing a more accurate pass that was in the air for 43 yds, on a windy day.
No Anderson gets the blame for creating the pick...just like many other picks of his..he locks onto one side of the field..
I am beginning to tire of this endless QB bickering that is going on here...its frivolous...
Look both Quinn and Anderson are about Equal...Quinn has a better short game , Anderson has a better arm for the long game...both are equal, just pick and choose your poison
If we had an established Running game, and was running the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense, Quinn would most likely excel here...its not that Quinn is bad, its just Quinn doesn't fit here
On the flipside, Anderson has some improvements to do too
I have had enough of this useless QB debate...Attack ALL NFL QB throw balls off target...they all do
as a matter of fact, Sunday Night Peyton Manning threw 9 passes that were "off target"..by your definition IE: Too high, too low, wrong shoulder, or behind his receivers
guess what? only 1 of those passes were dropped...Manninig';s receivers make "great" adjustments to the ball...a QB is only as good as the receivers he is throwing too, on the flipside, a receiver is only as good as the QB throwing him the ball...it goes hand in hand
Sometimes, Anderson needs to do more to help out his receivers, BUT Anderson's receivers need to do more to help him out too....if the ball his a tad high, reach up and get it..the ball is behind, slown down your route and catch it
The above is ROUTINE things we see out of receivers on the Steelers, Patriots, Vikings, Chargers, and other teams on a weekly basis
We have had "2" Bona fide pass catchers on this team since 94...Kevin Johnson and Kellen Winslow...thats it...the rest were all scrubs and bums....
you look back at film on them two, they were the only two receivers we have had that helped out their Qb and understood what making an adjustment on your route meant
we have no one on our roster right now that can do that
we lack at the skill positions...hence whichever QB it is looks bad...and will continue to do so.....We need to sign Marvin Harrison from Fa right now and show these receivers we have on this team how its done...
Anderson needs to help himself, but he gets no help from his receivers either...
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Yes I wondered when you would decide to parachute in..and add some meaningless comments..tired?
Go to sleep..
as a matter of fact, Sunday Night Peyton Manning threw 9 passes that were "off target"..by your definition IE: Too high, too low, wrong shoulder, or behind his receivers
Does Manning QB the Browns?
Didn't think so..
Is Manning historically a accurate QB?
Is DA a historically accurate QB????
Once more do not bring in another QB to try and prove something about DA..it simply doesn't work.. 
DA is inaccurate..repeat-DA is inaccurate..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/14/09 02:46 PM.
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BQ is not equal to DA---not even close.
You wanna stop Quinn, put all your guys within 10 yards of the LOS and stuff the run. Make him have to throw outside the numbers or down the field. HE CAN'T DO IT.
DA can do that---he can make all the throws. He has shown he is the better QB.
I really don't understand why people can't see this.
With Quinn on the bench there are so many conspiracies its ridiculous. People seem to think Mangini set-up Quinn to fail, or they didn't call good enough plays for him, or Lerner doesn't wanna pay his bonus, or the players weren't behind him, it is stoopid.
All the BQ fans are putting the blame everywhere but where it should go---on Quinns shoulders. Its tough to deal with that hand. But the kid just isn't a capable QB. He doesn't have what it takes.
Our best option is DA. He has been the best option for three years now, and it's unfortunate that the "fans" don't realize that.
I read this board a lot, sometimes I check out the "official" board, and even the comments section of the PD.
It blows me away how many fans Brady has. People who want this entire organization shipped off just cuz they benched Brady. It is really sad to see. Why Cleveland fans can't just realize that the coaches saw that Brady was a LIABILITY at his position--I don't understand.
The guys in charge---with loads more experience than probably everyone on this board, the other board, and pretty much any board all combined; those guys made the decision that Quinn wasn't getting it done. They made the decision to go with DA, and for the record---it appears they are onto something, cuz the team has played much better since the switch.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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DA can do that---he can make all the throws. He has shown he is the better QB
RAH! RAH! ZEES BOOM BAH!
DA! DA! He's our man even though he can't do it somebody can!!!!!
U sound like a cheerleader..
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Quote:
I don't understand why some want to put the blame on Anderson for dropped passes last week?
You ever watch Brett Favre throw short passes?
Favre throws his short passes just as hard as he throws his long passes.
Excellent point. And favre gets lauded for being a gun slinger, and for throwing the hell out of the ball. DA? People want to lay blame on him. Ironic.
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Have you guys ever watched Favre? Yes he has a rocket arm but he also throws the screen and many other short passes with touch. Don't confuse a guy with a great arm that can't do that with one that can.
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Favre has the experience that DA lacks. We need to give Anderson 3 more years in a system with the same coaches and OC. He will then blossom into a superstar.
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What DA are you watching? Because the one I see can't and shouldn't be compared to Favre.
I have seen about 3 differant people in this post do that now.
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I was hoping no one would actually bite on that, because I actually do not have that type of personality.
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The only comparison I made between DA and favre is how hard they throw the ball. That's it. If you read into my post, that's on you, not me.
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It didn't start with you but you continued it.
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Quote:
What DA are you watching? Because the one I see can't and shouldn't be compared to Favre.
I have seen about 3 differant people in this post do that now.
It's like comparing Quinn to a Hybrid Peyton Manning/Tom Brady! LOL
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 10/14/09 05:05 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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It didn't start with you but you continued it.
No, I didn't. And the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.
Favre gets lauded for his bullets.. DA gets creamed for them. End of discussion. Favre does NOT have "touch". He's more accurate, yes. But he bullets the ball consistently. Due to his name or fame, he gets a pass on his bullets. That's all I'm saying.
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.......
How much more space are we going to waste on this topic? Seriously!
There is nothing more to be said. Our QB situation is a complete mess. It does not matter one bit who it is.
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I am seeing a light at the end of this tunnel,....
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Quote:
Favre does NOT have "touch". He's more accurate, yes. But he bullets the ball consistently. Due to his name or fame, he gets a pass on his bullets. That's all I'm saying.
And it's a point well taken... some guys just make things work even though they go against what is considered "traditional" or "optimal". Favre was one of those guys.. not many QBs can get by with a weak side armed delivery but Kosar made it work...
yebat' Putin
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I give him all the credit in the world, especially for his brains-- in the huddle and on the LOS--but we had one helluvan OLine, run game, WR's and some D, back then.
He would certainly make today's Browns better overnight compared to the cards in this hand now.
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Just when you think we have exhausted the QB discussion....
I swear.
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Favre gets lauded for his bullets.. DA gets creamed for them U keep doing that same nonsense that a few of the other hardheaded posters do...comparing a once very accurate passer (and a future HOF)to a inaccurate one destined to be a backup..Farve still was able to take something off his short stuff and put the ball where the reciever could make a good catch..
And on his rockets he still was very accurate..
The other one whom U and the others I mentioned seem to want to elevate him to that status and it's foolish..and you want someone to be as foolish as U are and believe it..
If all of you would stop trying to compare the two arms it would be smart of U..one could control it but has lost a lot because of age..and the other has never been able to control it..and is still young..
Stop with the comparisons..
Now here's one more that really seperates both..IQ...Farve instincts are light years ahead of DA's..in fact I've wondered if DA's is even higher than some of the posters n here 
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/15/09 09:29 AM.
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Thank you Attack.
That is what I've been saying. It's silly to compare the two. It really does nothing but make them look foolish.
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Just when you think we have exhausted the QB discussion....
I swear.
Sometimes talking about the past soothes talking about the present.
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Yes I wondered when you would decide to parachute in..and add some meaningless comments..tired?
Go to sleep..
as a matter of fact, Sunday Night Peyton Manning threw 9 passes that were "off target"..by your definition IE: Too high, too low, wrong shoulder, or behind his receivers
Does Manning QB the Browns?
Didn't think so..
Is Manning historically a accurate QB?
Is DA a historically accurate QB????
Once more do not bring in another QB to try and prove something about DA..it simply doesn't work..
DA is inaccurate..repeat-DA is inaccurate..
whatever you say Attack...your a legend in your own mind....
the simple fact that you can't understand that we have had "only two" legitimate ball catchers on this team in 10 years (Johnson and Winslow)Since you can't see this, it shows you are completely clueless as to why our QB have struggled...
Couch, Anderson, Quinn, and Garcia are the ony 4 Qb we have had on this team that are/were "Legitimate" NFL quality...all 4 have struggled...why?
WR thats why....Garcia admitted we had "one" AVERAGE receiver Andre Davis....and Davis was a bum in terms of route running and making adjustments compared to Kevin Johnson....Yes Johnson was better than Edwards...Johnson had nearly 1,000 yards his rookie year on an Expansion team with 8 TD and followed that up in his 3rd year with over 1000 yards and 9 TD...Johnson was a legitimate NFL receiver...he has since retired due to injury...but he was the best WR we have had here since the 94 season..and he was consistent for the most part...he didn't turn into a complete bum after one good year, he still had "respectable" NFL production in his time here on this team
Johnson would have been a great #2 receiver, but He is the BEST receiver this team has had since 94
Winslow had 2 straight 1000 yard seasons and was not a bum either...he was "slightly" better than Kevin Johnson...but Winslow was a tight end....Winslow was no doubt the best TE we have had, and the best pure ball catcher...Johnson was the best WR, winslow the best ball catcher
our Qb struggle because of our ball catchers...i don't give to hoos WHO you put back there ate QB
Repeat after me Attack:
IT WON'T MATTER WHO IS QB WITH THESE RECEIVERS it won't matter
Rookies struggle
other than that we have NOTHING at the skill positions....it doesn't take a genius to figure this out
You stating on here that everyone is wrong and you are right makes you out to be foolish
if you know everything like you state you do, then why aren't you a GM in a NFL Front Office, or working for some pro scouting department?
The bottom line is this team has much deeper problems than QB, changing the Qb will do nothing for this team without other areas addressed....
arguing over the QB would be like changing the alternator in your car after a blown head gasket and expect it to run.
I am just sick of this Qb debate nonsense....either could do the job if we had a team around them...we don';t, I don't take to Quinn because I don't like his skill set, but if he was QB, so be it i would support him...
it don't really matter though, until we put decent players in the skill positions (RB, WR, TE, pass catching back) we will struggle...regardless..
The bottom line is you don't know more than anyone else...your view are opinions and conjecture lke everyone else
many of this board share the view it is more than the QB, and the receivers have some blame too. if you don't agree with that view, fine, but don't post down to others who don't agree with you....
I am really not trying to come off rough here, but if I did its because you left me little choice in the matter...
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the simple fact that you can't understand that we have had "only two" legitimate ball catchers on this team in 10 years (Johnson and Winslow)Since you can't see this, it shows you are completely clueless as to why our QB have struggled...
Oh looky look..U come in armed with pebbles..again..
Your simple mind should have figured out that all the QB's U listed struggled for different reasons..
Couch-No Oline and no running game and wasn't that good..the first and last sum him up.
Anderson...isn't that good..next!
BTW Couch/DA do share one common characteristic..both very inaccurate!
Quinn..probably isn't that good..or just scared..
Garcia..bad fit..square peg in round hole.
Nawwww..U can't see it...not shocking..
IT WON'T MATTER WHO IS QB WITH THESE RECEIVERS it won't matter
Oh so now it's the recievers..well we already know the biggest threat was just traded but when he was here, he only had one good season..but it doesn't excuse the ineptness of the starters..Why don't U repeat this..' I know NOTHING..repeat Knight:'I know nothing!!!"
You stating on here that everyone is wrong and you are right makes you out to be foolish.
Actually it's pretty stupid because I actually said U and about 4 others are foolish.. so yeah it was foolish for you to misquote me ....
arguing over the QB would be like changing the alternator in your car after a blown head gasket and expect it to run.
Yet U foolishy keep trying and U foolishly keep getting schooled every time..and yet you foolishy keep coming back with foolish reasons ...soooo what does that tell you??
Looks like you blew your head long time ago..
I am really not trying to come off rough here, but if I did its because you left me little choice in the matter...
When did you come off rough?
I thought it lame..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/15/09 12:31 PM.
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This is EXACTLY the type of response I expected out of you....thank you for not letting me down.  I can not continue in these useless tirades with you, as it would require me to have an Intellectual Lobotomy. The QB's on this team suck because the team itself sucks and we have no talent at the skill positions....it is what it is...and changing the QB will not change that fact Im done with this conversation, believe whatever you want, but you don't know as much as you think you do. I also don't confess to have all the answers either. The Greek Philosopher Socrates once said: "True Wisdom is knowing how little you actually know" He is absolutely correct I don't have all the answers, and neither do you so quit pretending like you do...if you did, you would be running this team or working in the NFL...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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This is EXACTLY the type of response I expected out of you....thank you for not letting me down.
Well U let me down, cuz I thought U'd go rest after I spanked U..
The QB's on this team suck because the team itself sucks
No Bone..they the QB's suck because they actually play like crap..and suck..
The Greek Philosopher Socrates once said:
"True Wisdom is knowing how little you actually know"
Attack say:"Don't come to fight a man holding AR-33 Assault Rifle with a pellet gun "..
I don't have all the answers
U don't even know the questions..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/15/09 02:38 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
The QB's on this team suck because the team itself sucks and we have no talent at the skill positions....it is what it is...and changing the QB will not change that fact
I disagree somewhat with that statement. Yes, the team itself sucks and while that may have some bearing on the QBs' stats/performance, it doesn't automatically become the reason our QBs suck. A bad QB is a bad QB regardless of the team. Issues like inaccuracy, lack of arm strength, inability to read a defense, etc. have nothing to do with the team. The QB either has those things or he doesn't.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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keep telling yourself that Attack..it may help you sleep better at night...
As I said, I can't continue this conversation with you because it would force me to have an Intellectual Lobotomy.
When you understand what Logic and Reasoning is, i'll consider talking to you. Until then, your posts simply don't exist to me.
good day
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
The QB's on this team suck because the team itself sucks and we have no talent at the skill positions....it is what it is...and changing the QB will not change that fact
I disagree somewhat with that statement. Yes, the team itself sucks and while that may have some bearing on the QBs' stats/performance, it doesn't automatically become the reason our QBs suck. A bad QB is a bad QB regardless of the team. Issues like inaccuracy, lack of arm strength, inability to read a defense, etc. have nothing to do with the team. The QB either has those things or he doesn't.
CBfan19:
thank you for your points. I think you made some good points in this post. I can attest and say your right that things that you stated make a bad QB
However, Since Da did indeed play at a pretty high level in 2007. We can "logically" deduce a few things:
1. Watching the game film you will see Edwards and Winslow "helped" out DA a lot that year...which is their jobs, to catch footballs...sure i'd say 35% of DA passes had to be adjusted to by Edwards and Winslow, but that is not out of the ordinary for ANY QB.
2. We can assume "something" changed between 2007 and 2008...
A: Edwards was hurt and slowed by an injury,
B: DA was recovering my a Preseason Concussion.
C: Stallworth was hurt a few games as well.
D:The OL was banged up early on and did not play as well.
E: Jamal Lewis was plagued with a nagging Hamstring injury most of the year
So those factors above greatly influenced how DA and the rest of the offense played compared to 2007.
Furthermore, DA had what 7 TD and only 1 INT and was benched? He went 120+ passing attempts without an INT? He was hardly playing bad enough to warrant being benched to begin with.
There are some instances where the QB just stinks and thats it, but I personally find it hard to believe that is the case here in Cleveland.
I think IF we had the players that EITHER Quinn or Da could be successful here, if we had the right type of players around either one of the guys....
the QB takes way too much blame here in Cleveland.....and its unwarranted
I just think we can't accurately gauge a QB until he has some decent guys to throw too....
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,825
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,825 |
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Favre gets lauded for his bullets.. DA gets creamed for them
U keep doing that same nonsense that a few of the other hardheaded posters do...comparing a once very accurate passer (and a future HOF)to a inaccurate one destined to be a backup..Farve still was able to take something off his short stuff and put the ball where the reciever could make a good catch..
And on his rockets he still was very accurate..
The other one whom U and the others I mentioned seem to want to elevate him to that status and it's foolish..and you want someone to be as foolish as U are and believe it..
If all of you would stop trying to compare the two arms it would be smart of U..one could control it but has lost a lot because of age..and the other has never been able to control it..and is still young..
Stop with the comparisons..
Now here's one more that really seperates both..IQ...Farve instincts are light years ahead of DA's..in fact I've wondered if DA's is even higher than some of the posters n here
I wonder if "facts" matter to Browns fans any longer?
A few weeks ago, I summed up the Browns history since returning to the NFL and sited a reason why I believe the team has been so poor.
CHANGE...is the word I used to sum up a key reason the Browns have not succeeded since returning to the NFL in 99. New head coaches with new coaching philosophies...new offensive and defensive coordinators that have changed more often than head coaches in Cleveland..fact!...new position coaches for every player and new play books to learn every time a offensive or defensive coordinator is hired.
Just as CHANGE, can slow the progress of a franchise's development, CHANGE can also slow the development of the players. Instead of players coming into camp year after year knowing the offense or defense, they report to camp to learn a new system every couple of years or so. Learning new techniques, new coaching philosophies, new methods and terminology all slow a players development.
CHANGE, can be the enemy of your QB's progress too. Pick Quinn or Anderson, it does not matter...ask the question, How many offensive systems have they had to learn since joining the Browns?
Quinn has played in 2 different offensive systems as he is in his 3rd season with the Browns. Anderson has played in 6 different offensive systems as he enters his 5 yr in the NFL.
Quinn played for Chud his first two yrs and this year with Daboll.
Anderson was drafted by the Ravens and first leaned Brian Billicks playbook, the was picked by the Browns after the Ravens cut him in 2005 and being handed Mo Carthon's playbook once the Browns picked him up off waivers. In Anderson's second season with the Browns he started with Carthon's playbook and ended that season with Jeff Davidson's playbook. Then Anderson spent two seasons with Chudzinski and this season with Daboll.
Now let's take a look at a couple of the most successful QBs in the NFL and trace their first 5 season's in the NFL.
Brett Favre spent his first season (1991) in Atlanta, playing for Jerry Glanville. In Favre's second season in the NFL (1992), he was traded to the Packers where he learned from one playbook his next 4 seasons...Mike Holgren's playbook. Holgren had been a QBs coach and offensive coordinator in college and spent 3 yrs as the 49ers QB coach before becoming their OC for the next 3 seasons. In 1992 Holgren became the Packers head coach and it was Favre's first year with the Packers. Favre played in 2 offensive systems in his first 5 yrs in the NFL.
Then there is Peyton Manning, who has played in one system in all his entire 12 yr NFL career.
Now, I'm not saying either of the Browns QBs are going to be a Brett Favre or Peyton Manning, but the point about "change" slowing a players growth certainly must be considered when evaluating the Browns QBs, IMO.
Another interesting fact I came across...one of the reason's Favre wanted to play for the Vikings was he would be playing for an offensive coordinator he knew very well, Darrell Bevell. Bevell coached with the Packers for 6 yrs, spending the last 3 yrs as Brett Favre's QB coach.
Players do like playing for coaches and in systems they are familiar with. Being familiar with Browns coaches and playing in offensive and defensive systems that remain the same year after year has not been possible for those players fortunate enough to play in Cleveland, since 1999.
The reason that "change" is an enemy to franchises and the players who play for those franchises...your coaches are teachers of the game of football and if a franchise is constantly changing teachers, chances of getting the most out of your players is greatly reduced.
When Brad Childress began building his Minnesota Vikings coaching staff he had certain qualities in mind for the men who would lead the team into the future. Childress wanted coaches who were good teachers, hard workers and dedicated to the task. Childress had seen all of those qualities years earlier in a gritty QB who led his 1993 Wisconsin Badger squad to the school’s 1st Big Ten title and Rose Bowl berth in 31 years. Over a decade later, the coach and QB were reunited with the Vikings. That QB, who is now the Vikings offensive coordinator...is Darrell Bevell, Brett Favre's old QB coach with the Packers...jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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1st String
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OP
1st String
Joined: Sep 2009
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However, Since Da did indeed play at a pretty high level in 2007.
Not really. He was 17th in the league in passer rating that year and 28th (that's right 28th) in completion percentage, all this while getting the best protection in the league (league leading 14 sacks). So in a year with spectacular protection and with Edwards and Winslow catching everything, he was still below average at best (don't let the 29 touchdowns fool you). DA played at a pretty high level for DA that year, but not for a typical NFL QB.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 9,149 |
He was awesome. He made the Pro Bowl. What else do we need to do to make believers out of people ? It just confounds me.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Then there is Peyton Manning, who has played in one system in all his entire 12 yr NFL career.
Now, I'm not saying either of the Browns QBs are going to be a Brett Favre or Peyton Manning, but the point about "change" slowing a players growth certainly must be considered when evaluating the Browns QBs, IMO.
mac I agree for the most part. And it's not just the playbook. Manning has had very little turnover at the WR, TE and OL positions the entire time he's been with the Colts.
(Just as a side note, they stated a fact the other night, that Peyton has had 3 offensive schemes his whole life, high school, Tennessee, and the Colts... the only time he has EVER changed systems was to move up a level... just thought that was neat)...
But I will say this, while I agree that a stable offensive system helps a QB learn, relax, and develop... how much of that stability is BECAUSE Manning is as good as he is? I mean if you have a great QB, it only stands to reason you will have more job security as an OC, right?
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Well, DA's not the answer
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