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Thanks for the link, BBD. To summarize his stats this year:
Stuckey:
26 targets
11 receptions
2 drops
120 yds
1TD
Edwards:
22 targets
10 receptions
1 drop (on the page, but pretty sure we've seen more)
139 yds
0 TDs
every one of Edwards' catches has been for a 1st down. About half of Stuckey's have, just for comparison.
BTW, with them listing Braylon as having 1 drop, I've got to think Stuckey's got more than 2.
Also per BBD's link, Super Bowl MVP Santonio Holmes leads the league with a whopping 5 drops through 4 games.
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...at work and not a lot of time to read up....
Do we know what round the picks are yet (officially)?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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...at work and not a lot of time to read up....
Do we know what round the picks are yet (officially)?
That's what I'm waiting for.......need to get some work done but I want to know!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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I have a feeling the dirty laundry is going to leak out of Berea about Braylon...
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Quote- to put it differently...would you accept Veikune, Maiava, Trusnik and Stuckey for BE
At this point I would answer a resounding yes. BE wasnt happy here, and showed it by his play, words, and actions. I agree with whoever said that this is an addition by subtraction. He was gone next year anyways.
I'd rather have players that have their heads in the game and that are focussed than someone with loads of talent, but hates where he plays and shows it.
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I'm about 75% sure it's a conditional 3 and 5 .
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btw, I'm still waiting for the 1 GOOD move....
we disagree on many things here DJ, but one we agreed on....
the move from #5 to #17 was a good move. We saved $$$, got players and put us in a position to still draft a good player. You may not like what what we did when we got there, but you did say you liked that move.
you also liked the Coye Francies pick....so there's 2 moves that you yourself have liked....and you only asked for one.
I would add that the moves from #17 to #21 is pretty undebatably a good move since we got 2 6ths and the same player we would have drafted at #17...of course you have debated that (even though you would have picked Oher at either spot...which again...more picks plus same player would have equaled good move).
there are other moves I liked....but those 3 should do to satisfy your "one good move" requirement.
#gmstrong
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Braylon wasn't catching footballs. He's a punk with a terrible attitude. What made it more frustrating was all the talent he has. Immensely talented.
But in reality, he was in danger of seeing the bench at some point if he continued on his current trajectory. A 1st (or even a 2nd) in this deal is just a ridiculous expectation. He was panning out to be a busted pick straight up.
If we got a guy who drops easy ones and makes great plays, then we got even money. Throw in a great special teamer and a couple of picks...we robbed 'em blind.
We still don't even know if he's going to face suspension for his little act in the bar this week.
I think Mangini/Koki are geniuses for being able to put this together in 1 day. I'm psyched.
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Quote:
Quote:
btw, I'm still waiting for the 1 GOOD move....
I'll say it and you'll probably ignore it again.
Drafting MoMass and Alex Mack.
Trading Kellen Winslow
Hiring Rob Ryan.
I have one myself...but It's a little one: hiring the ST coach, he's good...but well, a ST coach...I'd rather have a bum ST coach and therefor an OC that has actually called plays EVER in his career (Daboll never has...figures, huh?)
to your "good" moves: Ryan is average at best, I mean OAK fans are happy he's gone, lol...look what Nolan does with less talent in DEN
MoMass: I admit his hands look better than I thought but even on the catches he NEVER had separation....that could become an issue....didn't Quincy Morgan have several 100yds games too? Since there are later round rookie WR who catch balls in this league already...it's nothing special at the moment, esp. considering our situation at WR
Mack: He couldn't even beat out Fraley in preseason, still can't snap and has horrible technique....but yeah, the mantra is "he's improving"...I honestly don't see it and we left better talent at more urgent need positions (Oher, Harvin...could need a speedster to catch balls huh?) on the board...not bad, Mack has low bust factor...but good is something else...like what the Jets did with us? In that context: was the Mack pick good? 
Trading Winlsow was good, I'll give you that...[censored due to profanity] quickly by drafting Veikune and signing the Royal bum...so I guess: waste for waste, which doesn't qualify as good in my book
Last edited by Referee 3; 10/07/09 01:41 PM.
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Mack: He couldn't even beat out Fraley in preseason,
umm....Fraley was a backup for the MIN game....like the method or not, Mack beatout Fraley because he started week1.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Thanks for the link, BBD. To summarize his stats this year:
Stuckey:
26 targets
11 receptions
2 drops
120 yds
1TD.
JFYI, anything under 60% target to catches is terrible...and his 11yds/catch career stat doesn't vow me either...looks like a backup WR to me
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MoMass: I admit his hands look better than I thought but even on the catches he NEVER had separation
Braylon had 0 catches and a drop so what seperation did he get?
Mack: He couldn't even beat out Fraley in preseason, still can't snap and has horrible technique.
Rookie OC..is starting and no fumbled snaps in the game..and we used the gun in the Bengal game..are you now resorting to nitpicking??
Yes the Mack pic was good..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/07/09 11:24 AM.
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the link, BBD. To summarize his stats this year:
Stuckey:
26 targets
11 receptions
2 drops
120 yds
1TD.
JFYI, anything under 60% target to catches is terrible...and his 11yds/catch career stat doesn't vow me either...looks like a backup WR to me
Terrible for Sanchez ... unless he dropped it, it wasn't his fault.
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the link, BBD. To summarize his stats this year:
Stuckey:
26 targets
11 receptions
2 drops
120 yds
1TD.
JFYI, anything under 60% target to catches is terrible...and his 11yds/catch career stat doesn't vow me either...looks like a backup WR to me
Take the 26 targets minus the 11 catches and the 2 drops and you are left with 13 non-catches. Unless you have seen all 13 of them and deemed them catchable that is a rediculous statment.
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Braylon had 0 catches and a drop so what seperation did he get?
1. Nobody knew Massa, now they know he's the primary target...let's see what he does now
2. He had 13 looks and 8 catches = 61%...nothing exeptional...but small sample...again let' s see how this evolves
Quote:
Rookie OC..is starting and no fumbled snaps in the game..and we used the gun in the Gengal game..are you now resorting to nitpicking??
Yes the Mack pic was good..
1. Any Rookie C drafted in round 1 that is not starting is stinking to heaven...always been thet way, and you should know
2. So, the low SG snap to Quinn and TO doesn't count? hmmm
3. Bad technqiue isn't nitpicking, he's still getting too high in his stance too often....freaking WATCH him, am I the only one actually watch film? We couldn'T gain short yardage on 3rd downs now multiple times because og him...and that's what we drafted him for, right? 
4. No, it wasn't a good pick when you draft a player to replace a vet at the position who's fallen off and you can't beat out this said player....and don't give me he started over Fraley crap like the other homer here....every football minds with half a brain saw Fraley playing AND training better...it wasn't even close....he's a forced play, else Mangini would look like the clueless, clumsy Cartman he is
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I think we also have to remember, he was only under contract for this year. Yes, we could have franchised him to retain his rights, but if he plays like he has.....NOBODY would gives us much of anything anyway.
Getting a good deal now will probably help us more in the long run.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Take the 26 targets minus the 11 catches and the 2 drops and you are left with 13 non-catches. Unless you have seen all 13 of them and deemed them catchable that is a rediculous statment.
No, it's an indicator...Sanchez, after all, is hitting at 57%...and better WR have better %....it IS an indicator for effectiveness, getting open, getting separation etc....of course there are throw aways etc....but given a larger sample size, it is a pretty common indicator....go look up BE to other #1 WR ie
re moves: should have said significant moves and yes I liked the tradedown to 17 (not those to 21, another discussion though) but it a move isn't good in my book if not played out "good", the trade down wasn't isolated after all
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if you're really happy to trade a top 5 pick talent for a late 7th, so be it.
After a few years in the league, it's not about where you were drafted, it's about what you've done.
According to you logic, if in 2004 New England contacted Cincinnati about dealing Tom Brady for Peter Warrick, Cincy would have been crazy to take the deal because Warrick was a top 5 pick and Brady was drafted in the 6th.
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Django hates everybody... but good luck with your arguement.
yebat' Putin
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U saying I dropped the case? 
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Quote:
JFYI, anything under 60% target to catches is terrible...and his 11yds/catch career stat doesn't vow me either...looks like a backup WR to me
oh, cmon....that is a ridiculous statement....and I'll show you why...
just taking last year as an example:
http://www.fftoday.com/stats/playerstats...;LeagueID=72474
Larry Fitzgerald 154 targets 94 receptions (62%...or just above "terrible")
Calvin Johnson 151 targets 78 receptions (52%....must be a STer?)
Roddy White 149 targets 88 receptions (59%...backup WR?)
Randy Moss 126 targets 69 receptions (54%....another STer?)
Terrell Owens 140 targets 69 receptions (49%...must be out of the league?)
Brandon Marshall 182 targets 104 receptions (57%...another backup WR)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Just wanna throw something out there...
Guess he was Leon after all.
I've refrained from calling him that for quite a while now. Please, somebody put up the video so I don't have to.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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you butchered your own argument. you can't have it bolth ways. either you think the guy could be worth a 1st or you don't. you clearly stated that at the time YOU thought braylon was worth a 1st. okay. personally i liked the kiwi rumor the best, it didn't happen. looking in hindsight the giants trade looks better, assuming stuckey isn't better than either of those guys. but mangini didn't assume anything, he gave the player the opportunity to show he could produce. the PLAYER tanked. he is a total non-factor, headcase and is getting in trouble as well. you basically were saying that mangini should have known this would happen, even though he valued the player THE SAME AS YOU before the draft. butchery! if he would have traded braylon to the giants i am 100% certain you would be in here crying about what an ass mangini was to do that. as far as the picks go, you have zero basis for your point of view, and to act like you have a lock on which prospects have it and which don't after FOUR GAMES makes your agenda look childish. you could easily end up right, wrong, or in the middle. sanchez did struggle, and our guys did look pretty good last week. Quote:
Quote of the week I'd take Sanchez over our entire FA AND draft class...why? you can find those 20 guys on FA lists or waiver everyhwere but a QB like Sanchez?
wow. you sound like curlyD and medmann. A WR LIEK OCHOSINKO????? WHO DEY??? OIOIOI!!!
i think YOUR quote has the makings of a sig. 
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Post deleted by Referee 3
[color:"yellow"]"If I could do anything different, I wouldn't have went and gotten nothing to eat then. There wasn't even no girls in there," - Pacman Jones[/color]
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Quote:
No, it's an indicator...Sanchez, after all, is hitting at 57%...and better WR have better %....it IS an indicator for effectiveness, getting open, getting separation etc....of course there are throw aways etc....but given a larger sample size, it is a pretty common indicator....go look up BE to other #1 WR ie
re moves: should have said significant moves and yes I liked the tradedown to 17 (not those to 21, another discussion though) but it a move isn't good in my book if not played out "good", the trade down wasn't isolated after all
It's more of an indicator that the QB didn't put the ball in a position that the WR can catch it. I'm sure there was miscomunications at times but your talking about a rookie QB here.
It really sounds like you are grasping at straws just to complain.
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Hey Sanchez.......throw to BE every down, he's open!
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Considering the trade deadline in the NFL is pretty early, this had to be done.
Not sure what the offense will look like now. Hopefully this doesnt mean Cribbs is starting again. I liked seeing him fresh late in the games. The trade isnt to bad considering the WR moves the Browns made in the past around the same time and it didnt hurt the team too bad. Kevin Johnson was put on waivers and the Browns offense exploded the next week against I think Arizona. Then the trade of Quiny Morgan to Dallas for Antonio Bryant. It took Bryant a couple weeks to sniff the field. He was inactive the first game. He did come in and contribute thru out the season. Stucky also has the bye week to learn the offense.
There is a lot of headaches Edwards was giving that we are going to finally hear about. I was against trading him at first but then I remember what kind of malcontent Dennis Northcutt was and I couldnt wait for him not to be a Brown. Cutt went to the media and complained about not starting. Saying that he earned it because he was a vet. I dont think its a coincidence that Edwards is the player he was complaining about getting the playing time and now we see Edwards being the same kind of whiner. Its better to get rid of him before the cancer spreads to the youngsters on the team now. I just hope they dont see Edwards attitude as a way to get what you want.
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And has anyone even thought whats going to happen to Edwards by Doc Goodale if they levy any punishment for the nightclub incident ?
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Quote:
And has anyone even thought whats going to happen to Edwards by Doc Goodale if they levy any punishment for the nightclub incident ?
Which might be why it's a conditional 2nd....as opposed to a straight 2nd (if the picks in return report is true).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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At least now TOAD can finally change his signature.. 
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j/c A pouty, whiny, malcontent who has no self discipline on the field or off, and who hasn't been worth a damn for a year and a half. Whatever we got for him is worth the trade. Saying he's a top 5 player is a frickin' joke. Good riddance.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Django hates everybody... but good luck with your arguement.
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Quote:
Larry Fitzgerald 154 targets 94 receptions (62%...or just above "terrible")
Calvin Johnson 151 targets 78 receptions (52%....must be a STer?)
Roddy White 149 targets 88 receptions (59%...backup WR?)
Randy Moss 126 targets 69 receptions (54%....another STer?)
Terrell Owens 140 targets 69 receptions (49%...must be out of the league?)
Brandon Marshall 182 targets 104 receptions (57%...another backup WR)
Did you guys hear that....It was a crash and burn sound.... could it,,, maybe... YES, It was a Django going down in Flames....
Just havin some fun with ya Django.. To be honest, I was wondering were that 60% number came from. As you can see by No Logos post, lots of very good receivers are under 60%..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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haha, a selected list I guess? of course only with data from last season, I guess? What about Roddy White? Boldin? and mayn others you conveniently left out? Also....you have to look at yds/catch to...since deeper routes have less % success rate....anyway, this % was just an indicator...and it is usefull AND used around the league, believe it or not my main argument ddn't get touched by the apologists: Why would the Jets look for an upgrade to Stuckey with Cotchery and Keller if he IS in fact any good? Why is it worth for them to inquire about Crabtree? Why do they throw picks and players at us just to get that bum BE? Why? Right now, I trust the Jets FO more than ours to be right @hooter Quote:
you basically were saying that mangini should have known this would happen, even though he valued the player THE SAME AS YOU before the draft. butchery!
Kiwi straight up for BE would have been a no brainer...if somwhere there was this offer, even for 1min and he didn't take it....I don't even wanna know
but no, he didn't value him the same, that's your flawed logic right there....he wanted to get rid of him...I didn't, because it was too late to get a 1st...the ship has sailed. So keep him and either trade him for the same (he could not have lowered his value, right? he looked like that last year too after all) or more if he bombs again...so now we panic-sold him. We would have gotten more if we benched and fined his ass till offseason...he'd have the same value as last offseason and now...you know why? come draft time, WR -needy teams start thinking....BE or a 2nd round busto hopeful like Robo or Massa? They go BE..easy....I mean even that USC dude got picked in the Top 10 after 1 year of not playing....the potantial he has shown in that ONE season alone makes at least ONE team willing to take a shot for a 2nd again...I have no doubts about it (I wouldn't...but outsmarting is common around the league)
btw: thanks for the sig, you really look dumb with it...what about sending this to ANY national writer asking what he'd prefer....just do it and whatever he answers I'll put in my sig.....is this a bet?
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At least now TOAD can finally change his signature..
The monkey is off my back 
Now I wonder who I should target next: Wimbley, or Quinn........... 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Now THAT'S Funny...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Now I wonder who I should target next: Wimbley, or Quinn...........
LOL!...You may want to confide with Django on this
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haha, a selected list I guess? of course only with data from last season, I guess? What about Roddy White? Boldin? and mayn others you conveniently left out? Also....you have to look at yds/catch to...since deeper routes have less % success rate....anyway, this % was just an indicator...and it is usefull AND used around the league, believe it or not
Umm.... you purely stated 60% was THE indicator of a terrible or not terrible WR...I threw away your argument.
selected list? I took 5of the top 6 WRs from last year.....and Roddy White IS on the list. Boldin wasn't because he was hurt for a bunch of the year, so wasn't a top5 WR.
the only WR I threw off of the top5 was Andre Johnson who was a ridiculous 68% despite 2nd in the league in targets. The guy is amazing. But, I only left him off because it's not what you asked for.
and your argument about deep routes, glad you brought it up....Stucky is the deep target for the Jets....Cotchery is the underneath guy.
anything else?
#gmstrong
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Did you guys hear that....It was a crash and burn sound.... could it,,, maybe... YES, It was a Django going down in Flames....
Just havin some fun with ya Django.. To be honest, I was wondering were that 60% number came from. As you can see by No Logos post, lots of very good receivers are under 60%..
It's called deductive logic...since decent QBs have a 60%+ comp rate....and in Stuckey's case:
Sanchez 57%
Stuckey 11of27 = 40%
Cotchery 23of34 = 68%
Keller 12of21 = 57%
get it now?
I can easily double "no logos" list btw but am too lazy right now....just follow his link and look up EVERY other decent WR....he just picked out the ones that fitted...and in some cases if you add the previous seasons stats of those same players you get other numbers.....as I said, sample size
whatever makes you guys happy...you should open up a masochists club the way you worship the new Raiders
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Braylon Edwards traded to the Jets
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