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Quote:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/john_lopez/10/14/trades/index.html
This is kind of weird Quinn for Young straight up? 
Not onluy is that weird..it's a horrible trade for cleveland. I had to question the guy. I asked if he ever heard of a guy named josh Cribbs? And asked why we would want the salary of Young for a specialty player.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
Quote:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/john_lopez/10/14/trades/index.html
This is kind of weird Quinn for Young straight up?
Not onluy is that weird..it's a horrible trade for cleveland. I had to question the guy. I asked if he ever heard of a guy named josh Cribbs? And asked why we would want the salary of Young for a specialty player.
Not only that...he suggests since the Steelers lost possibly the best 3-4 DE in the league...they need to trade a WR for a pass rushing LB.
Made no sense...it was the Chewbacca Defense
HACK
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I saw that..Then I went back and seen he is in Houston and more than likely follows the old Oilers in Tenn. and is playing Fantasy Madden GM for the team he likes. One trade I would inquire about is Quinn and one of Oaklands RB's..Bush or Mcfadden and they can Throw Chuck Frye Back at us. LOL I'm sure some picks would be involved but it would be nice to not have to worry about using a high pick on a RB in the draft. Either that or somehow pry Stewart out of Carolina with Quinn and a pick...something. I want a big bruising back or a game changer like Mcfadden has the capability to be.. The only Big back I would take in the draft thus far is a questionable character guy in Blount...But he is a bruiser.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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nice job HACK,..since BQ has only started 6 games, what does DA's first 6 games look like next to BQ's 6. It's OK if you don't want to do it, I thought I'd ask because it looks like you may have already done the work.
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Quote:
nice job HACK,..since BQ has only started 6 games, what does DA's first 6 games look like next to BQ's 6. It's OK if you don't want to do it, I thought I'd ask because it looks like you may have already done the work.
Ill take a look...but my guess is Anderson looks fantastic in comparison...DA took the league by storm in 07....Be back in a few with results
HACK
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Quinns 6 games---------------------------------------DA first 6 games
90 of 163 for 918 yards------------------------------99 of 178 for 1121 yards
3 TD's 5 INT's--------------------------------------------11 TD's 10 INT's
55.2% complettions-----------------------------------55.6% completions
QB rating of 64.9---------------------------------------QB rating of 71.8
TD 1.8% INT 3%--------------------------------------TD 6.1% INT 4.6%
EDIT - DA's first game action was in 2006...so thats where I started.
HACK
Last edited by SteelHack; 10/16/09 07:29 PM.
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Thanks HACK,...you're OK for a black and gold guy.  3 TD's 5 INT's--------------------------------------------11 TD's 10 INT's
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games. Even though he hasn't matched that success lately,his first 6 games tells you that he may have something,....something Quinn hasn't shown us at all with the exact same opportunity.
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Quote:
Some feel I am a DA lover (attack, that is). I'm not. What you said is what I feel, I just haven't found the right words to say it.
Not that you need it, but you do have my permission to use it.... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Thanks HACK,...you're OK for a black and gold guy.
3 TD's 5 INT's--------------------------------------------11 TD's 10 INT's
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games. Even though he hasn't matched that success lately,his first 6 games tells you that he may have something,....something Quinn hasn't shown us at all with the exact same opportunity.
Just because I have to point this out.
It's not the exact same opportunity.
Different players playing. Different teams against. Tons of different variables.
It's simply not the exact same opportunity.
Having Ryan Tucker, JJ, Winslow, Shaffer, etc is a lot different than what we have now.
The teams played are different as well. Lots of variables here.
But I do agree that the disparity is striking, even if not very fair to Quinn.
I wonder what Holcomb's stats would uncover.
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Quote:
Thanks HACK,...you're OK for a black and gold guy.
3 TD's 5 INT's--------------------------------------------11 TD's 10 INT's
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games. Even though he hasn't matched that success lately,his first 6 games tells you that he may have something,....something Quinn hasn't shown us at all with the exact same opportunity.
I figured it would look about like that...and honestly...if you just went 2007...I bet DA looks even better.....but to me it supports the ....they got film on DA...and learned him argument.
Like they say...I guess you can make stats say anything.
HACK
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Just as a comparison....Kelly Holcomb's first 6 starts!
2002
Kansas City: 27-39 326 yards 3 TD 0 INT Rating 120.2
Cincinnati: 17-30 198 yards 2 TD 0 INT Rating 99.0
Pittsburgh: 26-43 429 yards 3 TD 1 INT Rating 107.6
2003
Indianapolis: 20-29 182 yards 0 TD 2 INT Rating 57.0
Baltimore: 17-37 147 yards 1 TD 2 INT Rating 43.4
San Fran: 25-38 222 yards 2 TD 1 INT Rating 87.8
Interesting fact. We were 2-4 even with his very good QB play over those games.
So in summation:
132-216 for 1504 yards
11 TD's 6 INTs
61.1% completions
QB rating of 87.4
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Quote:
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games.
No he didn't. He earned a lot with ONE of those 6 games.. The Bengals, 20/33 for 328 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT... You take that game out and he was 79/145 (54%) for 793 yards, 6 TDs and 9 INTs....
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games.
No he didn't. He earned a lot with ONE of those 6 games.. The Bengals, 20/33 for 328 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT... You take that game out and he was 79/145 (54%) for 793 yards, 6 TDs and 9 INTs....
OOh let me play...take away the cincinatti game in the wind and he is at 269/479 (56%) for3536 yards and 27 TD 15 int. 3 rushing TD and only 14 sacks.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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My point was to address a very specific comment he made about DA earning a lot his love during those first 6 games.. my point was that nothing was spectacular or even above average about those 6 games except for that one. (and possibly his second half in relief against the Chefs in '06) And I'm NOT playing a game where I remove his good games and you remove his bad ones from his stats... because I'll be done a lot sooner than you. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks HACK,...you're OK for a black and gold guy.
3 TD's 5 INT's--------------------------------------------11 TD's 10 INT's
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games. Even though he hasn't matched that success lately,his first 6 games tells you that he may have something,....something Quinn hasn't shown us at all with the exact same opportunity.
I figured it would look about like that...and honestly...if you just went 2007...I bet DA looks even better.....but to me it supports the ....they got film on DA...and learned him argument.
Like they say...I guess you can make stats say anything.
HACK
you can make the same argument that the defense had the film on quinn since the broncos game last year and he hasn't responded either. the coaches challenged him to throw the ball downfield, even through the press conference, and it didn't happen. instead, all that happened was indecision, sacks, and happy feet.
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Quote:
the coaches challenged him to throw the ball downfield, even through the press conference, and it didn't happen.
They did that before the Broncos game right? .... Did you know....
Through 5 games the Broncos have given up 9 pass plays all year over 20 yards and Brady Quinn threw 2 of them (Tom Brady threw 2, Carson Palmer threw 2, Tony Romo threw 4 including the only pass over 40 they've given up) ...
They average just over 3 sacks per game, they sacked Quinn 4 times (remember, because reading downfield forced him to hold the ball...)... (They sacked Tom Brady 6 times, Carson Palmer 3 times, Tony Romo 5 times)...
They average less than .5 TD passes per game and 1.2 INTs per game and Quinn threw 0 TDs and 1 Int.. (Tom Brady 2 TDs and 0 INTs, Carson Palmer 0 and 2, Tony Romo 0 and 1).....
I will state for the record because such disclaimers must be done so they can be ignored... I'm not putting BQ in that group, not even the Romo part..... and each of the QBs listed did have slightly better stats than him in other areas whether it was completion % or yards or whatever... but BQ is certainly not the only QB that has struggled against this defense and struggled to get the ball down the field... and for the record, the 5th QB to play the Broncos was Russell, and they just chewed him up and spit him out so his numbers aren't even worth posting.
So Brady Quinn was challenged and the time he was given to fix his problem was one game against this defense.. and a half against the Ravens...  and people wonder what I mean when I say he wasn't given a fair shot to succeed. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games.
No he didn't. He earned a lot with ONE of those 6 games.. The Bengals, 20/33 for 328 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT... You take that game out and he was 79/145 (54%) for 793 yards, 6 TDs and 9 INTs....
OOh let me play...take away the cincinatti game in the wind and he is at 269/479 (56%) for3536 yards and 27 TD 15 int. 3 rushing TD and only 14 sacks.
Can I jump in?
Take away Earnest Byner's fumble, and we go to the Super Bowl in 1987. 
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you're using end results to compare but mangini said in pressers that people were open and he missed them. i'm telling you, dc, it's not just the 2.5 games that decided quinn couldn't get the job done. it was used to validate what mangini saw in practice and all the other snaps.
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Quote:
you're using end results to compare but mangini said in pressers that people were open and he missed them. i'm telling you, dc, it's not just the 2.5 games that decided quinn couldn't get the job done. it was used to validate what mangini saw in practice and all the other snaps.
My question still is why did he not see it all summer?
HACK
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I believe he's saying that he did see it... I just can't get my mind around Mangini is in a meeting thinking.. "We're going to have to suck for a few games so I can prove to people that Quinn isn't any good." or the equally absurd alternate theory.. "Quinn won't throw it down the field, let's give him a few games against 3 of the best defenses in the NFL to see if he can fix it" ........... I can't see it.
yebat' Putin
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you're right. i think mangini had a range of possible performances in mind when quinn was played.
dc - i don't think mangini thought that. i think it's more of a "if quinn plays like this, i will do this. if quinn plays like that, i'll do that." he played one way, so mangini did something. as i've said all along also, i think the possible escalators played into it, as to whether quinn should be paid like crazy for little product on the field.
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that may be how he still retains some trade value. it certainly isn't from what he showed in 09 thus far.
Not only that, but he is playing for the poster child for Dysfunctional Franchises....some may feel his failure is due to the organization he plays for.
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Quote:
Quote:
That's a pretty significant there, DA earned a heck of a lot with thoses #'s over his first 6 games.
No he didn't. He earned a lot with ONE of those 6 games.. The Bengals, 20/33 for 328 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT... You take that game out and he was 79/145 (54%) for 793 yards, 6 TDs and 9 INTs....
Well,..at least DA was able to put together one really good game out of 6. 
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j/c... Personally I am totally cool with accepting atrocious performances from BQ as long they're against the greatest defenses in the league. I mean, how could you expect your QB to look good against teams like the Vikings and the Broncos? It's an exercise in futility, so why even bother?
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Quote:
I believe he's saying that he did see it... I just can't get my mind around Mangini is in a meeting thinking.. "We're going to have to suck for a few games so I can prove to people that Quinn isn't any good." or the equally absurd alternate theory.. "Quinn won't throw it down the field, let's give him a few games against 3 of the best defenses in the NFL to see if he can fix it" ........... I can't see it.
"I was once blind but now I see" ... after you figure this all out, you'll be screaming that at the top of your lungs .... you claim you watch the games ... is that with a blindfold on?
Brady Quinn did not move the ball. End of story. He did not get first downs, did not score points. He can put up nice completion stats even if he doesn't move the ball ... he can throw those 3 and 4 yard passes all day, have a nice llittle completion percentage, maybe even a decent passer rating ... doesn't mean squat. He didn't move the team.
17 first downs against Minn ... much of that in garbage time ... 11 first downs against Denver and Balt ... ouch ... 268, 200, and 186 total yards, respectively ... that's even more damning than the first downs. I'm pretty sure we were the last ranked offense the first three weeks of the season...and I'm wondering how many of those 186 DA accounted for against Baltimore.
In 2007, we averaged 20 first downs and 360 yards of total offense.
But keep throwing out BQ's passer rating and completions and a bunch of nonsense that doesn't tell the story ... I already told you and Hack as much ... you might as well put those away ... they tell NOTHING.
The offense's primary goal is to move the team and score points. Quinn did not do that. So what about all those stats you are posting is going to change that fact? The answer is nothing.
The only thing you have to hold your head on is the experience thing ... but quite honestly I believe dong is onto something ... Mangini possibly suspected things could go the way they did based on all the evidence he had even going back to the offseason ... he obviously doesn't believe - based on that - that Quinn is going to change or else he'd be starting again.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c Quote:
At halftime of today's Notre Dame-USC game, Mike Florio, Peter King, and Jimmy Roberts waxed philosophic about the latest NFL news in advance of this week's trading deadline.
One of the topics was former Golden Domer Brady Quinn, who seems to want out of Cleveland, but looks unlikely to be dealt this week because of his affordable salary.
But King doesn't think the Browns will keep the local favorite for long.
"Whether [Quinn] goes or not [in the next week], he will not be on the Browns in 2010," King said. "I believe they've had enough of Brady Quinn -- Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis, the general manager."
Wow.
This statement did not appear to be made lightly. Even someone without the rolodex of King could look at the situation in Cleveland, and make some judgements regarding Quinn's future there.
The Browns only gave Quinn two and a half games before putting Derek Anderson back in the lineup. Even if they didn't like what they saw, giving him the hook so quickly is not something you do with a true "quarterback of the future."
King's comment makes us wonder when and where we'll see Quinn again, no matter how much the Browns offense struggles with Derek Anderson in the lineup.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/17/king-quinn-wont-be-back-in-cleveland-in-2010/
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j/c
How about we ship Quinn off to Buffalo in exchange for Lee Evans?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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jauron is as good as fired. he can't make that type of move. i also doubt they'd be willing to make that trade. unfortunately, quinn isn't as good as trent edwards at this time, imo.
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new info out. Quote:
1. While the Browns never thought Derek Anderson was lazy, they have been excited to see the quarterback raising the level of his work ethic. He has been staying past 10 p.m. to study game films and help with game planning. He has been spending extra time with offensive coordinator Brian Daboll and with former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar, who has been working with the coaching staff recently, to review game film and help devise game plans. Anderson remained positive after losing the starting job to Brady Quinn at the beginning of the season, and he seems especially motivated now that he has been given a chance to start.
2. Kosar has really impressed head coach Eric Mangini, who wants the former QB to work with Quinn and Anderson. He also believes Kosar brings tremendous insight to the coaches about Browns history, how the fans think and what it takes to be a successful quarterback here. Mangini also has had Jim Brown taking an active role, especially with the players at Saturday night meetings before games.
3. Offensive linemen appreciate Anderson for his quick release, which helps him avoid sacks. But the coaches want Anderson to watch his release point -- keep his arm up -- so that he doesn't get balls deflected by defensive linemen. That is sometimes a problem for him, and it leads to interceptions. And that's the last thing the Browns need in Pittsburgh.
4. According to Stats Inc., Anderson has had 10 of his 84 passes dropped. The service rated 14 of his 84 passes as "poor throws." Quinn has had four of his 74 passes dropped; 12 have been rated as "poor throws." Most NFL teams use the Stats Inc. rating system.
cleveland.com (had the 'b' word even though it's "Terry Pluto's Talkin" weekly thing)
Quote:
Hey, Tony: An ESPN commentator stated that there was a near rebellion in the locker room demanding that Brady Quinn needed to be pulled as a starter. Any truth to this? -- Christopher Gaston, Roanoke, Va.
Hey, Christopher: "Near rebellion" is hyperbole. Did Derek Anderson have more support in the locker room after Quinn's tough beginning? Absolutely. That's why I agreed with the QB change.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/10/hey_tony_tony_grossi_answers_y_5.html
so we've learned that DA has a work ethic (something that should be expected for all starting qbs, unless you're russell or VY), that he needs to watch his release point even though he's 6' 6", that he has pretty much the same number of "bad throws" as BQ with a few more throws with many more drops, and he had the locker room during quinn's benching.
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I have a feeling that the true story about Quinn won't come out until months after he is no longer a Cleveland Brown ........
I have no concrete first hand knowledge of the situation ..... but there's an awful lot of smoke .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I know I'm late with a post here.
But I don't think BQ will be trade in this deadline.
This is what I think - if anyone cares.
I think M/K wished they had a Franchise QB already...and they had what they thought was a fair competition. Neither is and DA a more finished product is being give the reigns cause the TEAM needs to get some winning attitude.
But M/K are building their DREAM TEAM...they have spent their entire lives Wishing for this Opportunity to Build THIS TEAM. I don't see them relinquishing their DREAM with confidence into the hands of Either DA nor BQ and guess what?
They did not HAND PICK EITHER QB!!!!
They will do so at the end of the year...and its not anew 5 year program from there.
We will trade the more trade able QB draft day or sooner - Which one...I don't think it matters except that WHO we can get more for.
Possibly DA can create enough HI-Lites and get more teams interested in him...due to the fact that he is the one Playing (unless injury) for the rest of the season.
So what then? Lets say an NFL team wants DA we trade him.
We name BQ the starter for 2010 - if he sucks this time the Rookie would take the reigns mid-stream and hold onto them for a long time 
There is the chance that BQ could actually STUD out...just like Drew Brees did when the Chargers lost hope on him and drafted Rivers. Hey if that happens great then we get to tutor the rookie maybe another year like the Chargers did Rivers.
Now we could think about trading BQ in 2012 off season for First rounders or MORE...this is the best case scenario.
If it is BQ that gives us the better return in trade in 2010 - then we name DA the starter and let the rookie tutor behind him for a year. Again if DA sucks then the kid takes over...hopefully for a long, long time
Will DA become the Drew Brees stud in that last opportunity...honestly, I think DA will always be DA. Just too inconsistent to expect Championships from.
Still all I know and expect is for Mangini and Kokinis to go get "THEIR" QB in this next off season.
Wouldn't YOU???
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I have a feeling that the true story about Quinn won't come out until months after he is no longer a Cleveland Brown ........
I have no concrete first hand knowledge of the situation ..... but there's an awful lot of smoke .....
That's always been the case with virtually every failed player who came and went from Berea. The truth that comes out about Quinn won't be something people like. His real reputation is starting to surface, both as a player and as a person.
Hindsight says that Quinn is to Mangini what Frye was to Savage at the end. Handed the job despite not earning it, then yanked very quickly because taking the "maybe he'll play better than he practiced" route failed.
So how bad are guys like Frye and Quinn in the eyes of these decision-makers? Neither was good enough to beat out Derek Anderson.
Ouch.
Sadly, both Quinn and Frye suffered from the same problem at the NFL level: Accuracy down the field.
So is Quinn being dangled? You can bet we're listening to offers, but with the way he's played, he ain't worth much right now.
I'm not convinced that he'll be gone next year. Sure, it's now more likely to happen than not, but the alternative is probably taking a 1st round QB, and despite all the draft talk, I don't really view any of the QB's coming out as being that good. There's a bunch of system QB's who look good because of the offenses they are in. Yes, I'm talking about Bradford and McCoy. Jevon Snead is a fraud. Pike looks too damned fragile to me.
Bradford IMHO is the only guy who looks like a 1st rounder, but playing in the spread makes him look as good as Alex Smith when he came out. He's been nothing short of a bust.
So Quinn remains a viable option because he's cheap and he's young. From a personal standpoint, I hate to think that we'd be trying to waste yet another 1st round pick on a QB when we have so many other holes on the team. People around here are still in denial about our level of talent. It's not on part with most of the NFL. Taking a QB when the rest of the talent sucks just doesn't make sense when you're a rebuilding team.
Given an unbelievable offer, yeah, I think we'd dump Quinn. Otherwise, I think he stays.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The truth that comes out about Quinn won't be something people like. His real reputation is starting to surface, both as a player and as a person
And just what would that be? I'd be interested to know this info from a guy that's roughly 2000 miles away.
Wow....here's a surprise....a player that half the board has decided is not worthy to be a Brown and you're implying he's some kind of turd.
Wouldn't that description fit pretty much every guy we've let go in the last 10 years? At least according to the scholars on here.
Save the character attacks. They're not needed. Quinn will be gone at the end of the season. And Anderson probably won't be far behind. Just a guess, but probably pretty accurate.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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And just what would that be? I'd be interested to know this info from a guy that's roughly 2000 miles away.
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Save the character attacks. They're not needed.
Then I guess you really aren't interested, so why bother asking a question you don't want me to answer? *L*
Honestly...........You think telling me to keep my opinion to myself is going to work?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
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Just speaking for myself ......
I have read and heard numerous reports about how the team prefers Anderson by a pretty large margin.
I have also read how Quinn is a workout warrior. I have heard and read how hard he works ..... how he studies ..... practices ...... stays after ....... picks the brain of the OC .......
Yet still his teammates seem to prefer Anderson. There has to be a reason. It could be just that they like Anderson ...... but that's not usually enough to have players go vocal at any level.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have read and heard numerous reports about how the team prefers Anderson by a pretty large margin.
Ya know, I hear this but I never actually see it attached to a reputable website or other media outlet. Perhaps you can provide that. Your aunt Tilly saying she heard it at her quilting bee doesn't count.
Toad - You know as well as I do if you had anything other than pure rumor or just your opinion you'd post it no matter what I said or didn't say.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Considering that many of those suggesting that players have a preference are the same people who wanted Quinn in the pre-season (Like Grossi) I tend to think that it might just be true.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well, I do not get Cleveland TV so I do not see daily reports. But I have never read this on any reasonably reputable website.
But honestly, I'd be surprised if most of the guys didn't say that they liked DA. He's a likable guy. But after a couple more losses his popularity may dwindle, if not disappear.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Can't disagree that talent wise this team is not up to par ( average) on an NFL level
IMO more than a few of our starters are nothing more than serviceable back-ups, in fact I can name 7 off the top of my head and I'm not counting the rookies.
I'll say we need 7 new starters if the rookie WRs pan out. You guess what positions they are.
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Legend
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Legend
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11 first downs against Denver and Balt ... ouch ...
9 last week and 12 today...
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268, 200, and 186 total yards, respectively ... that's even more damning than the first downs.
193 last week and 197 today...
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But keep throwing out BQ's passer rating and completions and a bunch of nonsense that doesn't tell the story ... I already told you and Hack as much ... you might as well put those away ... they tell NOTHING.
Okie dokie.. fair enough. We'll only use the stats that make DA look good.. let me know what those are... 
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The offense's primary goal is to move the team and score points. Quinn did not do that. So what about all those stats you are posting is going to change that fact? The answer is nothing.
LOL.. see you seriously believe that I'm pimping BQ and why we would be better if he was still the starter... and that has NEVER been my point... my point is that DA has done NOTHING to show me he's any better.. NOTHING.
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you claim you watch the games ... is that with a blindfold on?
oooh, personal insults. really raises your argument there.  usually I watch the Browns with my head in my hands wondering why my Dad hated me so much....
yebat' Putin
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