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If you could pick any AVAILABLE qb, who would you want to run the offense next season? Would you like one of our present QB's? Would you like us to draft a QB? Is there going to be an available QB in free agency or in trade that you would like? Why?
Upgrade does mean that things get better.........RIGHT?
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Legend
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1 of the guys we already have.
Why?
Because we should be following the model of other successful NFL teams and building the defense and the offensive supporting cast first ... then trying to find "The" QB.
Plugging an average QB into a good team is almost always more successful than plugging a better than average QB into a bad team.
We should be using every resource we have to build the team ... and let the QB situation wait for now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree.
Add in this years draft crop is pretty weak and it spells disaster.
Stay with what we have or bring in a FA, but don't draft qb this year...put some players in place first
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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To help with this, here is a list of prospective 2010 Free Agent QB's. Obviously there are some that will never make it to Free Agency, but the list is what it is: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2010Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team QB Charlie Batch UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent QB Kyle Boller UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent QB Mark Brunell UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent QB Jason Campbell UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent QB Kellen Clemens UFA New York Jets Free Agent QB Brodie Croyle UFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent QB Jake Delhomme UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent QB Tarvaris Jackson UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent QB Jon Kitna UFA Dallas Cowboys Free Agent QB Eli Manning UFA New York Giants Free Agent QB Josh McCown UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent QB Matt Moore RFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent QB Kyle Orton RFA Denver Broncos Free Agent QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent QB Ben Roethlisberger UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent QB Sage Rosenfels UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent QB D.J. Shockley UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent QB Troy Smith RFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent QB Brian St. Pierre UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent Jason Campbell, Jake Delhomme & Mark Brunell are the only names that jump out at me. There is no way that Manning or Rothlisberger enter free agency, and it appears less likely that Kyle Orton will given Denver's current successes. Each choice will have its own set of tradeoffs, so to be honest, I'm not sure that any of those choices is significantly better to the extent that we need to go after any of them in lieu of what we've already got on our roster. So, my answer is that I don't have anyone in particular that I want to be our QB in 2010... I really don't care as long as they are mostly competent. What I do NOT want is a 1st round (or any round, for that matter) pick at QB. Whether we just keep what we have, or we reload in free agency, I don't care one bit.... but I do not want us to waste any more draft picks on a QB while we have so many other areas that need a serious upgrade.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Ditto. Use what we have until we get or develop some legitimate weapons and the right OL.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I don't have a crystal ball,, but if things don't change between DA and Quinn this year.. If DA remains our starter for the duration, then trade Quinn for what we can get, bring in a veteran FA as DA's back up, Use the draft to build a Defense that is killer, round out the Oline.... and run with that for another year.
Look around at the teams that were successful with young 1st or 2nd year QB's.. Pittsburgh, Denver, San Diego (twice), New England, Philly, NY Giants, Atlanta... Fundementaly sound teams that just needed a QB.
Look around at some others that weren't successful, Oakland, Buffalo, Washington, KC, Detroit, Houston, Cleveland (three times).. Teams that weren't built on a solid foundation of good player selection..
The lone exception I see is Tenn. They went hard after Young and even with a very sound team, couldn't make it work.
We keep making the same mistake over and over again.. we've now gone three times for the Glitzy pick,, Couch and Quinn and to some degree, Frye.. we've tried splashing in the geritol pool with Dilfer and Garcia... yet, the best we've had is probably DA.. and that isn't saying much.
I find that to be the most frustrating thing we as Browns fans have had to endure over the last 10 years.. 2 winning seasons, all built on smoke and mirrors.. Just hasn't worked has it?
Time to do it right I think..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Thanks for the list PPE - kffl obvisouly hasn't done an update in a while - Manning signed a long term deal already.
Nobody from that list jumps out at me. Assuming one or both of DA (money) and Quinn (recent trade talks) are gone, I think I'd take my chances with Kellen Clemens. Being a Jet has nothing to do with it. I was high on him out of college and wouldn't mind seeing what he can do - and at minimum he'd be a serviceable backup. That and drafting a QB.
As per draft, I'm not a huge fan of Bradford, and am not sure Tebow is an NFL QB. I like McCoy, but I see him being taylor made for a WCO team like Seattle. That leaves Snead, Pike, Locker, Clausen, etc... I'd probably go Pike, Snead, Clausen, Locker in that order.
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Trade DA or BQ - whichever gets more for us - sign Garcia and have him start this Sunday.
Draft a QB early in 2011.
Garcia stays as our backup until he's 50.
Build the team before ever drafting a QB again before the 5th round.
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Look around at the teams that were successful with young 1st or 2nd year QB's.. Pittsburgh, Denver, San Diego (twice), New England, Philly, NY Giants, Atlanta...
So in essence your saying you would pass on any of those teams QB's if they were coming out in the draft next year and you KNOW none of the ones coming out will be any good? And.. if they end up being any good it won't be because of THEIR talent but the talent of the team they go to ?
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Quote:
QB Eli Manning UFA New York Giants Free Agent
He just signed a 6 year extension in August. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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that list isnt very accurate. Delhomme received an absurd contract during the offseason the kind of contract that gets someone fired.
Vince Young i believe is set to receive like 14 mil next year so he will be out there.
Now the best QB in the nation most arent very familiar with is Rusty Smith of Florida Atlantic. Howard Schnellenberger loves this kid and for good reason. There isnt a throw that he can not make, now if he had receivers that would actually catch is another story lol.
Great Arm, Excellent footwork, pure pocket passer, only issue i see is he is still learning to read zone converages. He is a bit of a side arm passer as well. If we can land this kid, I will be a very happy camper on draft day. we are talking anywhere from 3rd to 6th type of pick also.
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Ideally, I'd like to see either Brady or DA develop into a legitimate enough NFL QB so that we wouldn't have to waste another pick on a developmental QB. Unfortunately, DA is the same old DA and Brady isn't going to be given another legitimate crack at the starting position any time soon, so it looks like we'll be drafting one... again.
If that's the case, I want Jake Locker. You won't hear anyone complain about Locker's arm strength and his athleticism would also be a welcome addition. I'd take him over a guy like Bradford who, just like Brady, comes with a top college pedigree but doesn't necessarily have the ideal physical tools to match.
We're... we're good?
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Now the best QB in the nation most arent very familiar with is Rusty Smith of Florida Atlantic.
If they were on the tube I'd know..I can only go with what I'm able to see..I'm going to really watch Tony Pike/ Cincinnati Thursday nite..curious about him..
Bradford ..he 's a guy I need to see a few more times..he doesn't run from a pro-set so I'm trying to see his skills translate to the pro game..
Guys like Jarett Brown, Daryll Clark, Pat Devin,Tim Hiller,Jevan Snead*, Ole Miss and Dan LeFevour are guys who might go later in the draft.
Many are underclassmen..so I really won't get serious until I know who's coming out and who's staying..
I want no part of Mcoy/Tebow..
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I'm not convinced a QB will fix what's wrong with the Browns. Until we have a running game and fix the right side of the line our QB will look like a bit of a bum. I'll be upset if the front office uses a high draft pick on a QB this time around.
I'll go out on a limb and say we need a young guy who can take a beating and doesn't get some of the press and fans all starry-eyed with visions of taking us to the Promised Land.
We have two quarterbacks who can probably play the game. I say fix the rest of the offense and then plug in a QB for a run at the playoffs in two years.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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We're probably going to be drafting high again.....  So I think we have to prepare to draft the best player available. If that's a QB, then it's a QB....you don't pass on a franchise QB no matter what state your team is in, period.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
So in essence your saying you would pass on any of those teams QB's if they were coming out in the draft next year and you KNOW none of the ones coming out will be any good? And.. if they end up being any good it won't be because of THEIR talent but the talent of the team they go to ?
WOW,, please buckle your seatbelt and return your seat and tray table to an upright position, prepare for landing because we are returning to earth.....  That was hard to read man....
I didn't say any of those things.. why bother taking what I said and twist it around?
Look, to me it's simple, think about what good it would have been to have McNabb, or Rothlesburger on the browns when they were drafted.. Do you think the D on the browns would have allowed the team to get to the Superbowl twice like the Steelers did? I don't..
But having said that, if a Big Ben type comes around and he's there when we pick, I don't know how you pass on him. But by the same token, don't throw it all on a rookies shoulders to win when you got nothing to surround him with. All that is is PR and in the end, that's what we've done and it's bitten us.
The problem is, we tend to do that around here. We expected Couch to come in and win us a SB within 5 years. Instead, he was gone by then. We expected Quinn to come in and make us productive,, instead, he's not been effective himself.
What is the common denomanator between those losing situations in other cities and us? Places like Oakland, Detroit, Buffalo? The common factor is, they don't have a fundimentally sound football team.
Now look at the opposite, Pitts, Philly, Atlanta, NYGiants, NE.. They are the opposite of us.. they had a solid team and plugged in a stud QB when they found one...
The rest is history. Pitts has won two SB's, Atlanta won a division title, NE has won 3 SB's and the Giants have won a SB and Philly has an NFC Championship and an appearence in a SB.
Please don't try to tell me that any of them could have made those strides and won that many games if they had a crappy team and just a stud QB....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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video won't come up..so what's your take on the QB's?
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Bradford to many injury issues, I would not take a chance on him with a first. Tebow is a great college QB but he isnt worth a 6th as a pro prospect. McCoy i like but just when u start to buy into him he makes u want to sell because of some really boneheaded plays.
kid from Cinn is interesting, I will be watching him closely as the season progresses. western michigan has a pretty good QB in Hiller but he doesnt like to go vertical.
I think what we are going to do is make sure quinn cant reach the 70% then we will go back to him to see what we have in him. I do think we will be drafting a QB as just to many issues with both of our QBs. Quinn is afraid to throw downfield and everytime Anderson takes one step forward he trips, rolls and finds his head up his butt once again.
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Dan LeFevour is another I'm curious about...has a good comp % ...71 so far ..Rusty's % is 59.3..bears watching .
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/14/09 11:16 AM.
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Quote:
Add in this years draft crop is pretty weak and it spells disaster.
-Really do you watch College football? Look at the QBs could be available:
Jimmy Clausen
Jake Locher
Tony Pike
Colt McCoy
Sam Bradford
Timmah Tebow
You really saying that, that class is devoid of talent? Spells disaster? Quinn and Russell spelled disaster. Last year had 2 QB prospects Sanchez and Stafford. This year there are 3 QBs who could #1 overrall (Bradord, Locher, Clausen).
Aw yeah I forget none of those players play in the SEC...probably aren't worth drafting 
To answer the question I'll take Jake Locher.
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we should be following the model of other successful NFL teams and building the defense and the offensive supporting cast first ... then trying to find "The" QB.
This is what I would have said. MAYBE we can find someone in free agency as another band-aid, but I would not feel the panic so many others would if the front office didn't draft a QB in the next draft. If they can't get one, then let D.A., Quinn (I think he's long gone), & Ratliff (Who knows what he's got?) stay.
Even if they really liked one in the next draft and got him, I would want him to sit & learn the entire season or even longer. We won't come close to fixing all the other parts and building a proper team around the QB by then. Probably not in the offseason after THAT either.
Something tells me that w/ this team, no rookie QB could possibly come in and light it up like a Flacco or Sanchez.
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Quote:
Quote:
So in essence your saying you would pass on any of those teams QB's if they were coming out in the draft next year and you KNOW none of the ones coming out will be any good? And.. if they end up being any good it won't be because of THEIR talent but the talent of the team they go to ?
WOW,, please buckle your seatbelt and return your seat and tray table to an upright position, prepare for landing because we are returning to earth..... That was hard to read man....
I didn't say any of those things.. why bother taking what I said and twist it around?
Look, to me it's simple, think about what good it would have been to have McNabb, or Rothlesburger on the browns when they were drafted.. Do you think the D on the browns would have allowed the team to get to the Superbowl twice like the Steelers did? I don't..
But having said that, if a Big Ben type comes around and he's there when we pick, I don't know how you pass on him. But by the same token, don't throw it all on a rookies shoulders to win when you got nothing to surround him with. All that is is PR and in the end, that's what we've done and it's bitten us.
The problem is, we tend to do that around here. We expected Couch to come in and win us a SB within 5 years. Instead, he was gone by then. We expected Quinn to come in and make us productive,, instead, he's not been effective himself.
What is the common denomanator between those losing situations in other cities and us? Places like Oakland, Detroit, Buffalo? The common factor is, they don't have a fundimentally sound football team.
Now look at the opposite, Pitts, Philly, Atlanta, NYGiants, NE.. They are the opposite of us.. they had a solid team and plugged in a stud QB when they found one...
The rest is history. Pitts has won two SB's, Atlanta won a division title, NE has won 3 SB's and the Giants have won a SB and Philly has an NFC Championship and an appearence in a SB.
Please don't try to tell me that any of them could have made those strides and won that many games if they had a crappy team and just a stud QB....
Just calling it how I read it.. I agree with your premise we need to build (again). But.. I don't think you have to wait a year or two and hope a stud is sittin there in the draft when we decide we want one and happen to be in the perfect draft slot to get him.
Ben or Rodgers or Cutler or even Sanchez would make this team MUCH better right now and down the road. And we passed.
All I'm saying is if that type QB is sittin there for us this year or next you take him and if need be sit him a year or two.
Bottom line.. our decision makers have just picked the wrong QB's.
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Lefevour I always forget about cause it seems like he has been at CM for a decade lol They throw it around so much in that spread offense, it hurts lefevour but if he can play.
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Quote:
Timmy Tebow
This kid probably has more enthusiastic leadership in his pinkie than than all 3 of the Browns' current QB's do combined. Coupled with the fact he is athletic, if he failed at QB (even if only as some kind of Wildcat), he could still find a home at another position. I would not be unhappy to draft that kind of overall package. Hell, the man could probably play LB.
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Bottom line.. our decision makers have just picked the wrong QB's.
Well yes, there is that as well... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
john booty was released. i want us to pick him up asap.
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I in no way shape or form want to draft a QB in the first round again.
It's time we quit worrying about the quarter back and build this damn team the way it's supposed to be built. With solid running game and a stout defense.
We need to focus on getting the right side of our line fixed, bring in a road grading RG and RT. Fix up the secondary and bring in a couple of linebackers that can actually get to the quarterback.
This team doesn't need a quarterback that has to throw the ball 40 times, it needs a quarterback that can manage the game.
We need to stop worrying about the QB for once and build this team around the quarterback FIRST.
Off-season priorities in no specific order should be...
Fix right side of offensive line
Bring in a deep threat receiver
Pass rushing linebacker
Pass catching TE
True shutdown corner
Saftey help (Berry or Mays)
Bring in a savvy vet at QB (to backup and tutor our young guy's we already have)
And I would also like to bring in a big goalline back.
I know that can't be fixed in one off-season but until most of that is fixed we don't need to worry about QB IMO.
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Chad Pennington
He will neither win nor lose a game for the Browns and is adequate until we build the team. Then you can look at bringing in some younger QB.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Quote:
Timmy Tebow
This kid probably has more enthusiastic leadership in his pinkie than than all 3 of the Browns' current QB's do combined. Coupled with the fact he is athletic, if he failed at QB (even if only as some kind of Wildcat), he could still find a home at another position. I would not be unhappy to draft that kind of overall package. Hell, the man could probably play LB.
I can almost guarantee you in January 2011 Tebow will lead his team in rushing and passing TD's.
Before I get laughed at, I am NOT saying he's going to be a starting QB right off the bat. But I could see him as a massive weapon inside the 5. I'd want him on the Browns for just that given our redzone struggles.
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Wow. I never EVER thought we would have a "Draft Tebow" camp here.
Unless he dropped to the third round (not), I would be so friggin' mad if we drafted him. Too many more pressing needs. . .
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I think if he's there in the second you at least consider it. If there's other players there that our scouts really like (DE, LB, etc), then sure you pass on him but it would (or atleast should) prompt a discussion in the FO.
I'm not a huge Tebow fan but I am smart enough to realize that having "it" does matter in football. While I'm not sure he can be a franchise type QB (and maybe he can be, who knows?), there's certainly a lot of ways you can creatively use a player of his caliber on offense. Wildcat, QB iso plays in short yardage, special passing packages, etc. I think he's a David Garrard type player. He'll never wow you as a pure passer but his complete package (arm, legs, intangibles) is pretty good.
Plus, Tebow really doesn't get the credit he should as a passer. I mean, the guy only has 13 INT's in his entire career (vs. 74 passing TD's), all while completing 66%+ of his passes. I'm not saying he's a great fit in a pro system but he's a capable enough passer that I think someone can mold him in to a solid QB. Throw in his legs / power run game and you could have something.
Again, not advocating taking him in the 1st but once you get in to the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft, I just think you take a chance on a player who has a ton of talent and is a great leader and teammate.
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Quote:
Quote:
Add in this years draft crop is pretty weak and it spells disaster.
-Really do you watch College football? Look at the QBs could be available:
Jimmy Clausen
Jake Locher
Tony Pike
Colt McCoy
Sam Bradford
Timmah Tebow
You really saying that, that class is devoid of talent? Spells disaster? Quinn and Russell spelled disaster. Last year had 2 QB prospects Sanchez and Stafford. This year there are 3 QBs who could #1 overrall (Bradord, Locher, Clausen).
Aw yeah I forget none of those players play in the SEC...probably aren't worth drafting
To answer the question I'll take Jake Locher.
I watch lot's of college football. IMO none of those guys are top 5-6 talents.
Bradford has a weak arm that looks to get weaker.
McCoy is accurate but he is a dunker...that doesn't work in the NFL
Tebow...I like him the best, but not that early. I think he will have a nice NFL career at qb...Jacksonville probably takes him unless Dallas moves up and takes him once they can Phillips and hire Gruden.
My disaster comment is more about how we need to build, and it isn't at qb at this point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You like Tebow over....
Clausen, Locker, McCoy, Bradford, Snead, and Pike?
You might watch a lot of college football, but apparently don't pay much attention to how their game translates to the NFL.
Being a great college QB (Like Tebow) doesn't mean you will be a great NFL QB.
Just ask, Tim Couch, Andre Ware, Timmy Chang, Kliff Kingsbury, Colt Brennan, David Carr, etc.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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I'm sort of with Peen on this one.....Bradford and McCoy scare me (they don't have to read much defenses, shotgun snaps, almost exclusively short throws and often real wide open guys when they do go deep). I might like Tebow more than them as well, just because I think you can run more gimmicky stuff with him and you'd have your goalline packages.
I don't like any of those 3 in the first round though (and JAX needs to draft Tebow to save that franchise in the area...he'd put behinds in those seats).
I like Locker, he reads defenses and has picked up Sarkisian's offense very quickly (same USC offense that has translated relatively well for Palmer, Cassell, Leinart and even Booty...only UM can claim that many QBs in a row making it to the NFL).
I like Clausen...but part of me wonders if it's Weis' system even though he looks better than Quinn did in his ND days.
I don't know about Pike cuz I haven't seen him much...I'll take a look at him on Thursday.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I watch lot's of college football. IMO none of those guys are top 5-6 talents.
And my opinion would echo that..although at the end of the year at least two will be rated as top 10 ...none of them make me go WOW...
I have a lot of watching to do so I'll be able to see how they shake out..
As far as Tebow goes..he would never be a fit here..someone like KC or Jacksonville..
The Browns do need a QB..and perhaps some options will exist in FA..if at the end of this season neither DA/BQ emerge and the Browns have to draft one..then I hope they take one who has all the intangibles our two don't.
I would prefer if they get the weakest areas shored up first..thats the main readon these other rookies come in and do well, their support cast is above average..
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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As a team that seems to run the Wildcat ALL the time, not just here & there, I can see Miami picking up Tebow.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Blasphemy,... 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
As a team that seems to run the Wildcat ALL the time, not just here & there, I can see Miami picking up Tebow.
I don't know why,, Henne seemed pretty good from what little I saw on Monday night.... Or was that a mirage?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So what QB would you like to have
next season and why?
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