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I know that many on here are of the opinion that no quarterback could be successful for this team. And for the most part, they are right. But on the other hand, no team could be successful with our quarterbacks.
Neither DA nor Quinn has shown any sign of being a productive player. I could go on forever about both of their faults and if asked to, I probably will. But that is not the point of this thread.
Our offense obviously lacks talent. We have young and inexperienced receivers mixed with experienced but mediocre players. Our right side of the line is so awful that we use a 6th offensive lineman, and even that does little to slow down the revolving door that is barely able to slow down a pass rush. Our run blocking is just as bad. JT and Steinbach are both good but not elite run blockers, and Womack/St. Claire are just as inept as they are in pass protection.
Add in an over the hill running back and a scat back who can't block to save his life, and we have virtually no talent on offense. We have two receivers with potential, three good linemen, and a 3rd down back who can't block.
But with that said, our quarterbacks have done nothing to help out our lack of talent. DA makes terrible decisions and couldn't hit GM's butt (no offense  ) while Quinn looks at his linemen instead of the receivers, has no arm strength, confidence or leadership ability. It has never been more obvious that we need someone knew to lead this team.
So we are left in the ultimate Catch 22. Our offense sucks so much that no quarterback could succeed, and our quarterbacks suck so much that no offense could score points. Where does that leave us as we head into the offseason? We must upgrade the quarterback position in anyway possible. If that's through free agency with someone such as Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington or Kyle Orton then so be it. I don't think any of them are great options though, especially the latter two.
So next we have the trade option. Guys who might be available are Donvan McNabb or Kevin Kolb, Shaun Hill, Alex Smith, Josh Johnson, Vince Young, Kerry Collins or even Matt Leinart. Other than the first two, it's not exactly appetizing.
Then we have the draft. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the quarterbacks, but many are. At the top of the first there are several available options. To simplify, I will list below:
Jake Locker, Washington, 6'3" 225, Junior - He has a cannon arm and runs a 4.5 flat. Runs Norm Chow's pro style offense and is a center fielder in baseball as well, though he is committed to football. My favorite.
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame, 6'3" 225, Junior - He runs a pro style offense under Charlie Weis. He has an average arm and is considered to be very smart. I'm not a big fan.
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, 6'4" 223, Junior - Is about to have season ending shoulder surgery, but he announced that he will declare for the draft. Questionable arm strength and he runs the spread offense. 90% of his throws are under 10 yards. Very accurate.
Those are the only guys being talked about at the top of round one. There are several 2nd round guys (which could be where Bradford ends up) but I'm not going to talk about them unless asked. I'm really not a huge fan of any of those guys, but Locker is definitely my favorite.
So now we are back at the beginning. The obvious question is how we prioritize between the quarterback and his surrounding talent. I have arrived at an obvious, yet tricky solution: Best Player Available. It really is the only option. I'd take the BPA at any position but wide out (and a few obvious ones like left tackle, guard, and center), for several reasons. We have two young 2nd rounders there, and it isn't a crucial position. It is obvious that we need help on both sides of the ball, and we have no choice but to go after the guy who is the best considering our incredible amount of needs.
The only solution to get out of our catch 22 is to upgrade both the surrounding talent and the quarterback. The best way to accomplish that is to select the best player we can get.
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Locker looked amazingly like Anderson this weekend with his poorly thrown forced passes.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Like I said, I'm not a huge Locker fan, but I do like him somewhat. Considering the talent he's surrounded by, he's bound to force throws. Matt Ryan did the same thing at BC.
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I would look into Troy Smith as well. I know he's restricted, but I would definitely look into it.
AS for the draft, if Clausen came out, I would strongly consider him. Not a big fan of Mccoy's, or Bradford.
Locker is too raw too me. Needs another year. I can't remember a qb taken in the top 10 that hasn't had a winning record in college. that bothers me. Plus his td to int ratio isn't good 12/8. He does have all the tools, but I think he's more of a project if he entered this draft.
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Legend
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Not that it matters at this point, as anyone that would do a better job than what we have now would become, but Smith would be an instant fan favorite also.
I kind of worry about his height, but Baltimore doesn't seem to have a problem keeping him at # 2.
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I'm having a tough time following the purpose of the thread.
You don't really explain why we need one.
Then you blame everyone for being awful.
Then you say that no QB could be successful for this team.
Then you list the top QBs in the draft.
Then you say you really don't like any of them.
May I suggest you stick with one premise then develop it fully. That way we can debate the merits of it without being completely confused.
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All Pro
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sign Tavaris Jackson and Vince Young. Draft Tebow in the 2nd. 4 players including Cribbs to run the option spread when Urban Meyer is hired to install the next generation NFL offense in Cleveland and save the world. it'd be a hell of a lot more fun to watch, and 4 guys would be good insurance against injury. 
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Quote:
sign Tavaris Jackson and Vince Young. Draft Tebow in the 2nd. 4 players including Cribbs to run the option spread when Urban Meyer is hired to install the next generation NFL offense in Cleveland and save the world.
it'd be a hell of a lot more fun to watch, and 4 guys would be good insurance against injury.
where do we sign up for this to happen? 
Lets go ahead and draft Juice Williams too then...
Last edited by HotBYoungTurk; 10/25/09 09:56 PM.
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We need one because our QB's suck. I explained that.
My point was that we have a huge catch 22 in that we have no QB or talent around the QB. So I was trying to discuss the best way to deal with that.
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Legend
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put talent around the QB's we already have...
Defense is a QB's best friend.
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I want Berry and Hardy. Then a RT/RG.
We would be instantly better with 2 play makers on Defense, a running back, and a right side of the o-line. Instant spike in wins...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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The thread is "Why We Need a Quarterback".
Then you talk about a Catch 22 because everyone sucks.
Then your solution is "Best Player Available".
Do you now understand why it's confusing?
Pick something, then develop it, then let's discuss it. That's all I'm asking.
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I picked everything.  I developed my thoughts, I just had many of them. My thread title sucked. I'll give you that.
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All Pro
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Quote:
We need one because our QB's suck. I explained that.
My point was that we have a huge catch 22 in that we have no QB or talent around the QB. So I was trying to discuss the best way to deal with that.
keep bolth QBs? no.
keep one QB and sign a FA to compete for starting job? um, maybe. has the benefit of saving a draft pick.
lose bolth QBs, sign backup FA and draft locker/clausen/bradford to start immediately. if you like one of those guys, this is the way to go.
lose bolth QBs, sign FA and later round draft pick. actually, i think we did this already once or twice.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Quote:
Those are the only guys being talked about at the top of round one. There are several 2nd round guys (which could be where Bradford ends up) but I'm not going to talk about them unless asked. I'm really not a huge fan of any of those guys, but Locker is definitely my favorite.
I'm actually interested in hearing your take on guys we could possibly take with our 2nd round pick.
QB is pretty deep in this draft but it's not top heavy so it wouldn't surprise me if M/K took a guy leftover in the 2nd-- similar to WRs this year.
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DA has shown signs of being a productive player.
He just needs a team around him.
Even BQ showed signs of being a productive player with an all-pro te around him.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Every time Timmy Tebow completes a pass, an angel gets its wings.
Just sayin'.
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i'm gonna wait till the end of the season to close the book on DA. as i've said all along, i strongly feel that the plan is to come out firing after the bye (no, the plan is not to suck until then) when the rookies get some experience. i think many are forgetting that we're starting two rookie receivers and we're on our 3rd and 4th string tight ends.
the problem is, green bay filled the box and left their cbs to cover man so in those scenarios, DA or any nfl qb should be able to take advantage but...our receivers were not beating their men.
remmeber the positives, we came out with him 5/5 and moving us down the field. take away that botched handoff and that probably would've been a td and not a field goal. does that drastically change the game? probably not but it shows PROGRESS.
rookie receivers typically do not contribute, certainly not two rookies who are starting. because they're supposed to be smart, i think it's reasonable to expect better performance after the bye and i think that's what we're going to see (in a best case scenario).
all that said, i am not opposed to shipping off all our qbs and getting a top prospect. until that happens, i'm still here saying DA can do well. he's starting to develop some poor habits (rolling out for no reason, getting some happy feet in the pocket, and his release is noticeably slower, though the last one i suspect because of chemistry and general belief in his receivers).
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We might need a QB.
We currently have 2 guys vying for the job ...... 1 a former 1st round pick, and the other had a pretty damn good year a couple of years ago.
Surrounding these 2 guys is a collection of crap.
The right side of the OL needs help. Desperately. Next year. High in the draft. Having to keep a 3rd OL in as a blocking TE doesn't help the QB one bit.
Having 2 rookie WRs hasn't helped either. From what I have seen, from the lowlights of today's game, each guy was completely taken out of the picture by single coverage. When a WR can't get off the line ..... and there's no receiving TE in the game ..... the QB's options become severely liimited.
Further, we are not running the ball productively either. We had a couple of good weeks ..... and now we're back to seeing minimal production. Part of that is the RBs .... part is the blocking ... and part is the fact that our WRs can be single covered. Nonetheless .... teams have run well with crappy QB play .... (see the Kyle Boller led Ravens as an example) and we are not.
Thus, 1 could say, with a rasonably solid argument, that a RG, RT, RB, WR, and/or TE are all more significant needs for this team than the QB is.
1 could also make an argument for a pass rusher high in next year's draft. QB's have all day ... for the 10th year or so in a row ... to just hang out in the pocket and pick apart the defense. For all of the talk about how unblockable Rogers is ..... he hasn't been that in games. How mant tackles for loss does he have? Sacks? Well .....he has 1 sack in 7 games ...... and I really can't remember more than 2 tackles for loss. He's a good player .... and probably the best guy on our defense ..... but what does that say about our defense? Maybe that it lacks impact players?
Our LBs are really a pretty rough group. Again ... Jackson is our best LB ... and he's not an elite guy. There is really no one of great consequence in our secondary (Wright is probably our best secondary player) ... so really one could make an argument for an impact player at any level of the defense before a QB.
I guess the way I look at it is this .... we "might" need a QB .... but really won't know until and unless we address the other spots on offense first. If there were a Peyton Manning coming out then there might be a reasonable argument for him .... but I really don;t see that guy coming out in this draft. If we stick a "good" college QB into this team right now he will fail. If we stick a 1st round QB into this team as it is curently constructed, he will fail. This team needs a lot of help .... and starting at the QB spot makes about as much sense as having a car you just bought from the junkyard as scrap ... and hiring Mario Andretti to drive it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I guess the way I look at it is this .... we "might" need a QB .... but really won't know until and unless we address the other spots on offense first. If there were a Peyton Manning coming out then there might be a reasonable argument for him .... but I really don;t see that guy coming out in this draft. If we stick a "good" college QB into this team right now he will fail. If we stick a 1st round QB into this team as it is curently constructed, he will fail. This team needs a lot of help .... and starting at the QB spot makes about as much sense as having a car you just bought from the junkyard as scrap ... and hiring Mario Andretti to drive it.
That sums it up. Agreed 100%.
If I was the GM I'd:
Start Quinn the rest of the season
If he's serviceable I'd cut DA at the end of the season, contract is rediculous.
Then pick a developmental QB guy in the draft in somewhere between Round 3 and 5.
Keep Ratliff
And dedicate my picks to RT then either TE, WR, RB in that order.
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How do you decide if the guy (either one) is "the" guy when surrounded by crap?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Jake Locker, Washington, 6'3" 225, Junior - He has a cannon arm and runs a 4.5 flat. Runs Norm Chow's pro style offense and is a center fielder in baseball as well, though he is committed to football. My favorite.
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame, 6'3" 225, Junior - He runs a pro style offense under Charlie Weis. He has an average arm and is considered to be very smart. I'm not a big fan.
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, 6'4" 223, Junior - Is about to have season ending shoulder surgery, but he announced that he will declare for the draft. Questionable arm strength and he runs the spread offense. 90% of his throws are under 10 yards. Very accurate.
Throwing out my assessment, from what I've seen of Locker, he's got a cannon arm and is very fast. But he doesn't seem to play like an NFL QB to me. He seems very antsy when he plays and looks more like an athlete than a QB. I prefer Clausen over the rest of the group. He seems to have great footwork and mechanics, seems to have become a leader and a winner, and plays in what seems to be an NFL offense. (Yet Brady Quinn also played well in this offense?) But none seem like can't miss prospects to me. Including Sam Bradford...........
I just get the feeling that Locker is the flavor of the week. May be I need to see more of him, but it just seems like a trendy name to me all of a sudden.
Nobody really wows me as an NFL player though......... but Clausen's arm is better than average. May be an average arm in the NFL, but in college it's a good arm
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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j/c
Regarding Locker, Clausen, and Bradford - none of these are worthy of a top 5 pick in my opinion. Unless we trade down, we have to take McCoy, Berry, Suh, Mays or Okung. If these three guys are truly the top of the class - at least one of Snead, Colt McCoy, or Pike will be available when we pick in round 2, though I think Colt would better fit a WCO than whatever we call ours.
Of the FAs, there are a couple that intrigue me in Jason Campbell and Kellen Clemens, with Clemens being a preference of the two. I'd assume DA will be cut so we don't pay the exorbitant salary next year. Not sure what will happen to Ratliff or Quinn, though we'd likely keep at least one of them. At this point, I'd try to sign Clemens, draft Snead or Pike in round 2 (if either there) and let the 4 guys fight for the 3 spots.
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Quote:
Then we have the draft. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the quarterbacks, but many are. At the top of the first there are several available options. To simplify, I will list below:
I pretty much agree with that, I did like Bradford but that second shoulder injury is frightening. Especially with an already questionable arm.
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Quote:
Quote:
Then we have the draft. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the quarterbacks, but many are. At the top of the first there are several available options. To simplify, I will list below:
I pretty much agree with that, I did like Bradford but that second shoulder injury is frightening. Especially with an already questionable arm.
When talking about Pike a couple weeks ago, knowing he had a steel plate and 6 screws in his arm and played with a hard cast, a poster said he was too fragile. The same poster said Bradford was not fragile. The guy definatley need to take a tumbling class and learn how to fall.
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2nd String
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First Off,
Defense, period.
If you have to draft an Offensive Player in the Top 2 Rounds, have it be a RT, HB or TE.
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Quote:
First Off,
Defense, period.
If you have to draft an Offensive Player in the Top 2 Rounds, have it be a RT, HB or TE.
I wouldnt argue that. Especially since the top players in the first round will be Berry from Tennesse and Suh (d-line not a neccessity but might be BPA).
The problem about RB is that as of now, there isnt too many good RBs in this upcoming draft. One of the best RBs got suspended for the season for punching an opposing player in the first college game of the season.
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Jake Locker, Washington, 6'3" 225, Junior - He has a cannon arm and runs a 4.5 flat. Runs Norm Chow's pro style offense and is a center fielder in baseball as well, though he is committed to football. My favorite.
I have not seen a lot of him yet ..so I cannot really comment..
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame, 6'3" 225, Junior - He runs a pro style offense under Charlie Weis. He has an average arm and is considered to be very smart. I'm not a big fan.
Actually I do tend to like him..I watched him Sat..is smarter than I thought..made some throws that needed zip..showed he can throw on the run..better than what we have..
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, 6'4" 223, Junior - Is about to have season ending shoulder surgery, but he announced that he will declare for the draft. Questionable arm strength and he runs the spread offense. 90% of his throws are under 10 yards. Very accurate.
If he had questionable arm strength before..he will certainly have it now..but here is guy who could get in the right system and rum amok..go figure..
I have arrived at an obvious, yet tricky solution: Best Player Available. It really is the only option. I'd take the BPA at any position but wide out (and a few obvious ones like left tackle, guard, and center), for several reasons. We have two young 2nd rounders there, and it isn't a crucial position. It is obvious that we need help on both sides of the ball, and we have no choice but to go after the guy who is the best considering our incredible amount of needs.
No it's not tricky .the real tricky part t me is KoMan..if this were the better teams who draft well I wouldn't worry , but once again I wonder if these guys plus the scouts can identify talent and then draft it..
There's the tricky part to me..it's not the talent available..it's a question of whether this FO is capable of identitfying it.
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Deep, you even mention it yourself (sort of).... i'm not completely enamored with any of the QBs coming out as a top10 pick this year (take your pick of Locker, Clausen, Bradford, McCoy, Tebow, Pike).... however, my mind changes if we are investing a 3rd round pick in one (some project Pike there). also....I am completely enamored with a bunch of defensive talent coming out in this draft (Suh specifically....also McCoy, Cody, Kindle, Berry, Mays). so I'm  on drafting QB in round1 (this year)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame, 6'3" 225, Junior - He runs a pro style offense under Charlie Weis. He has an average arm and is considered to be very smart. I'm not a big fan.
Sounds familiar ...
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If we HAD to draft a QB in this next draft ((If its a reach, don't do it!!!)) I'd go Locker.
But then you have to ask and wonder if the Browns are remotely close to providing the proper environment for a rookie to develop into a good pro QB.
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I would also go Locker.
But we would have to draft two offensive linemen with our other picks.
Drafting a QB with a porous offensive line is a death sentence. Just ask David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Tim Couch.
Last year the two rookie QB's (Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco) had a few things in common. Good offensive lines and good running games. The Ravens already had a pretty good line in place last year, and they ran the ball very well with McGahee, Rice, and McClain. The Falcons drafted Sam Baker in the first round to go along with an already solid line. You can even look at Mark Sanchez this year. He is having some success. The O-Line is in place (Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca) and they have a solid running game.
If we draft Locker or any other QB the key will be protecting him. We have the left tackle, left guard, and center in place. Now we need the other two. And a running game/running back/both.
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Quote:
DA has shown signs of being a productive player.
Productive meaning at being the worst qb in the NFL? The only time DA has been ever productive or showed signs of being productive was in 2007 when miraculously everything seemed to go right for the Browns after week 1,
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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All Pro
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Jason Campbell is a free agent next year. Sign him.
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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Build the team, then find the QB.
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We need a QB, 2 WR's, and an NFL offensive coordinator.
We have none of the above, hence why we are one of the all-time worst offenses to grace an NFL field. When your missing one, your offense struggles, two - your bad, miss all three and you get what we have. An offense that has no shot to score a TD's on a consistent basis.
Its all three feeding off each other that produces such total incompitence for us.
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Watched first have of the AZ. game last night .. What jumped out at me was how fast the play was sent in to Kurt .. I mean the tackle was barley made and he was receiving the next play . I understand the talent problem, but ...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Jason Campbell is a free agent next year. Sign him.
He stinks.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 664
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 664 |
Campbell wouldn't be the franchise. He would simply be the short term fix.
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218 |
Who ever said that "No QB could succeed with this Offense" is right on.
Drafting a QB will do no better then Anderson or Quinn, but I'd have to think they would do worse if you throw a Rookie in there with no real targets.
We have a great LOT and LG with a hopefully good C.
Just improving the Right Side of the Line to Decent, will go a long way.
So, now that you've fixed the Offensive Line, there are two things that every QB needs. A good running back to take the pressure off and keep Defenses honest, and a Good Hybrid Tight End for that additional Target.
He doesn't have to be a beast like Winslow, but he couldn't block. Heiden is a good TE that comes to mind, but durability issues and age are a concern. A young/project TE is needed.
So if you've improved the Right Side of the Line, you've improved the TE and HB Position, then what is left?
We've got two young WR's, but we do not have a clear #1 Guy. Massaqoi (Spelling?) shown flashes of being a great #2 Guy if he has someone to help him.
So a veteran WR that is STILL PRODUCTIVE would be a great addition here.
After these changes, you'll see the Offense click regardless of Anderson or Quinn.
So, for about 5 Players (Starters none the less), you could make this Offense work.
As for the Defense, there just isn't a single player that puts fear into anyone unless you count Shaun Rodgers. But, being Doubled Team every play, should open opportunities from some players, but sadly, it hasn't.
If you could find a superior pass rusher that would make the most of these opportunity, I believe that would change this defense by an unbelievable margin.
But what position is needed? It's hard to say, because a play maker at any of those positions would be tremendous.
My solution? Draft Smart safe Picks, Risk it all in the Free Agency. If you start winning NOW, Free Agency becomes a lot easier to deal with.
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