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Just clicking, daman. Personally, I figure Brady gets one more chance... it will be interesting to see if the down time has been a good thing for him, which is possible, it happens all the time with young QBs. I mean, I've tried to be fair about the whole QB debate (and I admit to flip-flop rather easily with my views on the QB), but I don't know how Mangini can spout off about all the "good things" he has seen with DA at quarterback... and he does it with a straight face. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Sadly, football has nothing to do with why DA is playing and Quinn isn't.
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Tony Dungy thinks Timmy Tebow will be a great NFL QB. Just sayin'. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/200...fl-quarterback/Tony Dungy: Tim Tebow will be a great NFL quarterback Posted by Michael David Smith on October 30, 2009 9:54 AM ET The biggest question mark in the 2010 NFL Draft is Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, who's viewed by some as a future franchise quarterback and by others as a guy who will need to move to another position if he'll ever make it as a pro. Count Tony Dungy as emphatically believing that Tebow will be an NFL superstar. Appearing Friday morning on The Dan Patrick Show, Dungy said he believes the combination of leadership and athletic ability that Tebow has will make him an elite NFL quarterback -- and more than make up for any questions about his throwing motion. "As a coach, I always like winners," Dungy said. "Tim Tebow doesn't have the classic throwing motion, he doesn't have the accuracy, maybe, right now that some people are looking for, but I think when he gets into a pro system that really stresses throwing the ball accurately, the big thing is he makes the people around him better. And he's won. ... I think he's going to be a great player in the NFL." Dungy said that if he were running a team with a Top 10 pick, he'd take Tebow. Patrick then asked Dungy who he'd pick for his team if he could have any of the top college quarterbacks, including Washington's Jake Locker, Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Texas's Colt McCoy. Dungy didn't hesitate and said, "I'm taking Tebow." One of the knocks on Tebow is that during his stellar career in Florida's spread offense, he's never been asked to make the kinds of throws that quarterbacks in prototypical NFL offenses have to make. But Dungy said a good coach can take advantage of Tebow's strengths. "Is it ever going to be Peyton Manning-ish? Maybe not," Dungy said of Tebow's throwing motion. "But I just think what you can do with him, the problems he creates for a defense, the combination of leadership and what he's shown, if I have him, defenses have to prepare for a totally different offense. ... He's going to give teams the most headaches getting ready for him." Dungy also said he thinks the Titans are making the right move by starting Vince Young over Kerry Collins, and that if he were the coach of the Chiefs he'd get rid of Larry Johnson.
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You're saying that Dungy is clueless about quarterbacks.
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You're saying that Dungy is clueless about quarterbacks.
No. I'm saying that two coaches who have been around some damn good QB's: Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden have gone public saying Timmy Tebow is gonna be a good QB.
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Gruden has said that he thinks the spead can work in the NFL, and Dungy just has no clue.
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Gruden has said that he thinks the spead can work in the NFL, and Dungy just has no clue.
So you know more than two Superbowl winning head coaches about Timmy Tebow?
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Worst argument ever. That's like saying Phil Savage was right to pick Wimbley because unlike me, he has the credentials.
Just because someone has credentials, it doesn't make them right. Gruden thinks Tebow could work in the spread, and I don't know what Dungy's saying. Unless he is in a spread or has plenty of time to sit on the bench, Tebow will fail as a quarterback.
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Dungy and Gruden have the hardware, Savage never had a ring as a GM.
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Why?... There is only one reason WHY...cause we don't have one.
DA after 4 seasons of starts and 31 starts...I can say with pretty much certainty - he ain't the guy 100%.
BQ - 2.5 starts this year and really one last year without injury. Not quite 100% sure but was highly disappointed in his beginning here for 09. His best quality I thought was his confidence and leadership ability. I was shocked to see a scared QB in those 2.5 games of 09. I would like to see more as in at least 5-8 more games this year before passing 100% judgment.
But in lieu of that if we got NONE HERE. We NEED TO!!!
Quick solution...FA I wish us to pick up David Carr. I always liked him and felt bad for him as he got pummelled with his expansion Texans. He has had 2 years to heal and in the Giants organization has probably relearned his position.
I would like for us to Draft Bradford or McCoy. Possibly Bradford might be the best pick cause he might drop a ways due to the Surgery. But with Carr he can heal for a year or two and learn the NFL system. No rush, and I want one of the most ACCURATE QBs in the history of the NCAA to be on this team.
ACCURACY is the #1 Virtue an NFL QB can have. It is basically what is lacking right now from both of our QBs.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Tony Dungy thinks Timmy Tebow will be a great NFL QB.
And I say he won't.
I see Tebow as a fullback/H-back type who can run the wildcat. I DON'T see him as a "great NFL QB" in the sense of being an every-down QB.
Nope, I don't see it.
Now the fallback argument always goes "So you (poster) know more about QB's than an NFL head coach?" to which I always reply "The best in the world don't get it right 50% of the time."
Dungy knows QB's? During his time at Tampa, he drafted Shaun King to be his starter, then he drafted Chris Simms to be his starter.
So much for that argument.
I don't see an elite QB in Tebow. I see a gimmick QB who's better suited as an H-back or fullback.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'll never bet against a guy with the intangibles Timmy brings.
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I'll never bet against a guy with the intangibles Timmy brings.
that's fine...but to draft him, you are betting ON him to resurrect our franchise.
to do so, you need the intangibles AND the skillset...
#gmstrong
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I kind of agree with, Ammo  Minus the whole man-crush on Tebow. I think he'll be a QB in the NFL, and I think he'll surprise a lot of people. Is he going to be a Peyton Manning? Of course not, but I think he can be a Ben Rothlisberger type QB.
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I would like for us to Draft Bradford or McCoy. Possibly Bradford might be the best pick cause he might drop a ways due to the Surgery. But with Carr he can heal for a year or two and learn the NFL system. No rush, and I want one of the most ACCURATE QBs in the history of the NCAA to be on this team.
 I 'm not sure about Bradford..he may have been accurate but that shoulder..man that thing would concern me if I was interested in him.
McCoy..I don't want any part of him at all.
Coming in from a spread/shotgun offense I think it takes him longer to adjust to the NFL game.
Only adequate arm strength on deeper throws...that concerns me.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/09 11:44 AM.
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No on what? Everything noted.
No on getting an ACCURATE passer here?
No on Carr - Why you want DA as the guy starting while the rookie gets into the NFL?
I'm sure I cannot be that wrong on all counts 
Just curious on the NO and why?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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so that then begs the question.....would Big Ben be nearly as good if we had drafted him instead of Pittsburgh?
#gmstrong
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Absolutely not. That's why I used Ben as the comparison to Tebow.
I don't want him, I wasn't saying that.
He's not going to be a Peyton Manning type who can come in and save a franchise. But, I think if he gets put into the right situation (Like Tennessee, maybe?), then I think he can be a very good QB.
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I'll never bet against a guy with the intangibles Timmy brings.
That's the argument people gave me when I blasted the drafting of Frye.
You can have all the intangibles in the world, but if you don't have the arm........
I'm usually right about QB's. I believe when he gets to the combine, his arm is going to get exposed. Keep this in mind.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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who would you take, toad? I'm on board with Jason Campbell, but supposing that doesn't happen, would you draft anyone this year, or wait for Barclay out of USC? Or someone else?
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ok, that is fair then....I still don't think he has the arm strength to succeed like Ben does, but it's possible.
#gmstrong
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ok, that is fair then....I still don't think he has the arm strength to succeed like Ben does, but it's possible.
He has God on his side and even better leadership characteristics. I was moved when Timmy took Florida on his back on that incredible run last year. Dude does all the right things.
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Seriously, you sound absolutely pathetic....
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who would you take, toad? I'm on board with Jason Campbell, but supposing that doesn't happen, would you draft anyone this year, or wait for Barclay out of USC? Or someone else?
In years past, I've been able to actually form solid opinions on QB's coming out.
An example was Quinn. I understood the gamble on him, though I had him rated as a late 2nd rounder, not a 1st. I personally didn't care for him.
This year, things are much different........harder because many of these QB's are coming out of that stinking spread offense. 
Think back to 2005 when the big debate was Smith or Rodgers as the #1 guy. I loudly and strongly stated Rodgers was going to be the guy, and that Smith was an elite bust waiting to happen. Why? Because Rodgers ran a modified WCO which translated well to the NFL. On the other hand, Smith ran that spread and fooled people into thinking he was ready.
We know how that one has turned out.
The spread doesn't make NFL QB's, but rather hinders their development at the next level because they aren't playing in an offense anything like what they'll have to do up here (at least not now, but it looks like the spread may be coming). So having said that, there are QB's coming out this year who've benefited from the spread, and racked up huge numbers because they could take advantage of lesser teams with that offense.
Bradford and McCoy.
McCoy gets a ton of press because of the program and his short-throw accuracy. BUT, he stands somewhere between 6'2 and 6'3, and goes all of 210.
That's not a prototypical NFL QB.
His arm is accurate but short on power. The ultimate guy he could hope to become is Rich Gannon, but for every guy that size who became Rich Gannon, there are dozens of Rick Mirers out there.
McCoy is listed as a 1st rounder right now, but that can (and probably will) change quickly once he gets to the combine. Frankly, I don't like his odds on a team here in Cleveland. He may have a good chance in a warm-weather town or dome, but not here.
Bradford is more of an NFL prospect to me. At 6'4 220, he's big enough to see over the line and can still add a few more pounds. His accuracy is better than McCoy's when pushing the ball down the field. But again, he runs that damned spread offense, so it's hard to say how good he'll be. I do rate him much higher than I rated Alex Smith because his arm is a little better, though in terms of an NFL arm, it's average.
The problem with Bradford is that shoulder. Will it hurt his draft stock? I don't think it will as much as people believe in the here-and-now. Assuming it heals all the way, he'll be more than ready to throw for scouts. BUT, I don't view him as the 1st pick in the draft in terms of value. I DO think he'll be a good NFL QB.
Jevan Snead looks like a fraud to me. Poor decision after poor decision makes him a developmental guy in my opinion. He's yet another listed as a 1st rounder, but I don't see it. He looks like a 3rd-5th to me.
Tony Pike is just too damned frail to hold up to the NFL pounding, and his arm looks damned soft. I've seen him listed at 6'6 225. Like HELL he is. If he's 215 I'd be surprised. He looks more like 205-210 to me. He's yet another guy listed as a potential 1st rounder, and again, I don't see it.
Jake Locker? He's Derek Anderson with Wheels. Nowhere NEAR ready for the NFL.
I do like Clausen much more than I liked Quinn coming out, but I think Clausen has problems between the ears.
No man, the only QB out of this class I'd take is Bradford because he's the total package of this bunch, but even then, he isn't nearly the lock that I had on a guy like Rodgers.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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and Dungy just has no clue.
13 seasons as a head coach... 11 playoff appearances... 1 losing season (his first)... 10 double digit win seasons... 1 super bowl ring... The Browns would be LUCKY to have such a clueless guy at the top.
yebat' Putin
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Build the offensive line.
I believe Quinn or Anderson could perform well enough with a superb offensive line.
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What he said. I'm not as high on Bradford though. My rankings are: 1. Clausen 2. Locker 3. Bradford. If Locker would stay another year, he'd be my top guy of the bunch, but he isn't ready yet.
Ammo, he has God on his side. Really? That's the worst argument I have ever seen. You keep getting worst and worst.
DC - I shouldn't have said that. What I should have said is that he also thinks Mike Vick is a great quarterback. He tends to be blinded.
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Ammo, he has God on his side. Really?
I read it........and immediately believed it was sarcasm.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What he said. I'm not as high on Bradford though. My rankings are: 1. Clausen 2. Locker 3. Bradford. If Locker would stay another year, he'd be my top guy of the bunch, but he isn't ready yet.
I would agree with that but I don't think Clausen is a "can't miss" pick.. and I don't want to take another QB that early in the draft until somebody REALLY jumps off the page as a can't miss pick
yebat' Putin
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There isn't a can't miss quarterback in this draft. The next one is either Ryan Mallett if he can develop or Matt Barkley.
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Totally agreed. 
Which is why I've been coming back to Campbell.
I see some good NFL QB prospects here. I DON'T see Aaron Rodgers, Big Ben, or Philip Rivers.
I didn't have Eli rated nearly as high as the others, though.
There are prospects here, but IMHO I don't see a guy worthy of the #1 pick.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Post deleted by TopDawg16
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I have now watched each game that they've all played.
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I deleted the post. I guess when I was reading them, it seemed they changed more than what they actually had lol.
Once I typed it all out in one post, it wasn't too much of a change, other than you seemed to go back and forth between Clausen and Locker.
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I would just like to point out that Matt Barkley isn't even the best true freshman QB in the Pac-10. That guy's name is Andrew Luck. He is being coached by Jim Harbaugh, and his father Oliver Luck played in the NFL. A lot less hype than Barkley. A lot less talent around him than Barkley. Plays pretty much the same schedule as Barkley. As of right now, better than Barkley.
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Quote:
I see some good NFL QB prospects here. I DON'T see Aaron Rodgers, Big Ben, or Philip Rivers.
I think any of the 3, Clausen, Locker or Bradford COULD be that good... I just think there is enough risk that they won't that I say "pass" and try to find an impact player somewhere else....
Barkley is impressive, I hope to God we aren't drafting top 2 when he comes out but I think he is going to be special.
yebat' Putin
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Mallett looked like someone took a mallet to his skull Sat..I watched him and he was very erratic ..
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You know a QB that could surprise some people at the combine and maybe as a mid-round pick is Penn State's Darryl Clark. I know the first thought from many will be that it's homerism from a central PA guy , but it really isn't. I was skeptical of his as a QB. I thought he was another Michael Robinson for PSU (and actually wanted Pat Devlin to start last year), but his passing skills have really impressed me. His arm is strong, he's built like a tank, and he has a nice touch on the short to intermediate passes as well. His decision making has been very good, and he's quietly putting together a season as one of the top QBs in the Big Ten. I think being a QB at PSU has hurt his recognition, but they do run more of an open attack under OC Galen Hall than they have since Kerry Collins. Just thought I'd throw his name out there. (And no, I'm not his agent  )
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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You know a QB that could surprise some people at the combine and maybe as a mid-round pick is Penn State's Darryl Clark. I know the first thought from many will be that it's homerism from a central PA guy , but it really isn't. I was skeptical of his as a QB. I thought he was another Michael Robinson for PSU (and actually wanted Pat Devlin to start last year), but his passing skills have really impressed me. His arm is strong, he's built like a tank, and he has a nice touch on the short to intermediate passes as well. His decision making has been very good, and he's quietly putting together a season as one of the top QBs in the Big Ten. I think being a QB at PSU has hurt his recognition, but they do run more of an open attack under OC Galen Hall than they have since Kerry Collins. Just thought I'd throw his name out there. (And no, I'm not his agent )
I don't think you're THAT crazy. I haven't watched enough of him but I always like what I see.
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