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This year we got rid of every significant offensive weapon we had. We brought on some former Jets to breed familiarity with Mangini for the rest of the roster.
We have a roster consisting of two legit studs and a few capable every down starter. The rest are situational players/stop-gap/liabilities.
And whose fricken fault is that?
There are three SB winning coaches looking for work next year: Cowher, Shannahan, and Holmgren.
We really have nothing left to purge. Nothing left to lose, except games. I personally do not want these clowns managing next years draft with 11 picks, DO YOU?
Time to get a proven winner in town at any cost!
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Legend
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no doubt coaching can change a teams destiny better than anything.
Period! and nothing, NOTHING in football over trumps bad coaching.
I have little doubt a great coach could get 4 or 5 wins this year starting with the (midway through highway construction project of a team) team that is out there now.
And thats in the 9 games left.
Make a couple moves, get in some marginal talent to replace the areas where the talent isn't good enough.
It seems possible.
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Legend
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I have little doubt a great coach could get 4 or 5 wins this year starting with the (midway through highway construction project of a team) team that is out there now.
And thats in the 9 games left.
if we end up with 5 wins this season, will you call Mangini a great coach then?
I can't say it is likely the way we have played, but the backend of our schedule is weaker than the frontend this year.....KC, Detroit, Oakland, JAX and even Chicago are weaker than the teams we have faced......plus, I fully expect us to shock someone and beat a team we shouldn't at some point.
#gmstrong
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Its the freaking plan. And you wanna bail cuz we haven't won a whole bunch of games six games in........
what happened to patience. What happened to letting a guy finish what he started.
He ran off the guys that didn't wanna be here/wouldn't last, and got a bunch of draft picks to start putting his team together.
I wil give him that.
If you want some half-baked redux of teh Browns then fine.......but if you want this team to tear down and start out from the bottom-up then this is where we are.
I'm personally sick of the patchwork teams that we have fielded the past decade. I want to get a coach that wants to built his team and let him do it. Give him his drafts, let him develop his guys, give Cleveland a chance to become a legit franchise.
Mangini has a lot of haters out there, and they are all piling on; but I'm not there yet.
He has been in this league for awhile, and he has a lot more football knowledge than a lot of the people who bash him. I believe he has an idea of what he wants to build, I believe it will be a lot like this......................
A team that doesn't quit.
A team built through the draft
A team of players that work together towards a common goal
A team that wants to hit harder than the other guy
And above all, a team that loves the game of football---they live for it.
I think that is his goal, and he is detail oriented enough to find guys who fit this description to a T. Furthermore, I don't think he is going to put up with morons. He isn't going to buy into some toolbags BS either.
Everyone whined about Crennels country club.
Nw everyone whines about Mangini's Dictatorship.
Make up your minds people.
We wanted RAC gone......he got fired.
We wnated someone else......
and we got him. So how about we sit back and let the guy do what he wants to do before we run him outta here.
The team he got was composed of a bunch of garbage sewn together with some designer tags accenting the chest.
Mangini wants a TEAM, not just a few guys and a bunch of garbage.
We saw it didn't work out for savage---so now its Eric's bag.
I can give him another year to se what he can do. His draft this past year wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. It isn't any worse than Savage would have done.
And he has amassed what....11 picks next year; maybe more?
Let the guy do his thing.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Eric thinks he can win with versatile system type players, he doesn't want any egos, and egos always accompany star talent.
Every move he's made since being here has proven that point over and over, he doesn't know how to manage egos or deal with problems. He just gets rid of any minor disturbance. That and hes also proven to have a terrible eye for talent.
Every start type player here had a run in with EM, Rogers, BE, KW2...2 are gone, and I would bet that if EM is here next year that Rogers is gone as well. Thankfully Thomas is a LT and a saint, or he'd probably be gone too.
We are totally stupid if we let him have another offseason to butcher.
I agree Mangini doesn't want egos, but egos don't always accompany star talent. And I really disagree with the notion that Mangini doesn't want star/elite players (I know you didn't say that, but others have).
There are at least 3 good examples from the Jets you can look at right away: Darrelle Revis, one of the top cover corners in the game-- you never hear a bad thing about the guy. D'Brickashaw Ferguson is a very very good left tackle and another guy that doesn't carry around an ego. Thomas Jones is another. I think he led the AFC in rushing last year.
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I think he wants a culture not unlike New England, where there has been and currently are a lot of great players, but the emphasis is on team and nobody should act like they're above the team. Add that he's currently building the back end of his roster, and I think people get confused by it.
By no means does the guy not want good players.
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I understand the saying One has to tare down inorder to build back up....But man it stinks during those tare down years and we've had way to many of them....stop scheduling those.
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John Taylor on the OBR has a good article on comparing 1999 to 2009. This is why so many want Mangini gone now.
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I keep seeing the approach Cleveland takes to rebuilding..ship out the vets ..replace them with familar players the coach knows..a vast overkill of the coach's former team, that they really don't want anymore..
But in the draft , instead of going BPA...Browns draft for neeed...stop -drafting- guys- who- won't- see- the field..get impact players who can play immediately, which really adds talent instantly..I have yet to this done consistantly..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/29/09 09:41 AM.
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I keep seeing the approach Cleveland takes to rebuilding..ship out the vets ..replace them with familar players the coach knows..a vast overkill of the coach's former team, that they really don't want anymore..
But in the draft , instead of going BPA...Browns draft for neeed...stop -drafting- guys- who- won't- see- the field..get impact players who can play immediately, which really adds talent instantly..I have yet to this done consistantly..
I think you are right.. so many times we draft for depth.. and so many people are okay with that...
IMO.. Maiva is a depth player.. Veikune has potential.. but hopefully after drafting either/AND/or Brandon Spikes or Rolando McClain... he will be just another depth player as well..
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I think you are right.. so many times we draft for depth..
I've oftened wondered, why are we drafting for depth, when our starters we have now, would have a hard time making another teams roster ? How can we draft for depth when we dont really have a starter. 
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I keep seeing the approach Cleveland takes to rebuilding..ship out the vets ..replace them with familar players the coach knows..a vast overkill of the coach's former team, that they really don't want anymore..
Sure sign of someone that doesn't know what their doing and doesn't know how to scout and evaluate talent. While almost every coach is going to want a few players possibly from their former team, thats fine, but has NOTHING to do with rebuilding. Getting rid of old vets and replacing them with old vets that are worse IS NOT REBUILDING!!!!Drafting a bunch non-talented system project players in the second round IS NOT REBUILDING!!!!There hasn't been a single block of rebuilding here, not an freaking penny. Plan? Building through the draft? With picks like Robo, Veik, and Mo?  Or maybe we are gonna try the FA method? Bowens and Barton?  Again, there is zero evidence of any glimmer of improvment, in fact, this team is digressing in overdrive. And is headed for the cliff, when EM will lose the locker room completely. Except for his NYJ guys, of course. This team is worse in nearly every area, and is showing no signs of improvment, and as far as potential...where is it? What young players are gonna take over roles next year? Veikune? Miaiva? Robo? Just so everyone knows, for a "rebuilding team" we are the 12 oldest team in the NFL. No rebuilding, no "plan", just tearing down, and bringing in old familiar vets, and drafting "good guys" rather than playmakers. Pretty simple, pretty easy to see why we are here.
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A team that doesn't quit.
A team built through the draft
A team of players that work together towards a common goal
A team that wants to hit harder than the other guy
And above all, a team that loves the game of football---they live for it.
If that is his "plan", he hasn't even come close to EXECUTE 1 of those goals DESPITE the fact that he's signed almost 10 former Jets and 25 of this 53 man roster....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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He may have brought in a bunch of guys, but IMO, they are here to change the culture more than making plays.
Sure, they have some ability on the field, but the guys he brought in are more important in the lockre room, and at practice.
Next year we will see him bring in even more guys, and it will all grow from there. Given the amount of draft picks next year Mangini really has put himself in a position to REALLY BUILD this team through the draft.
He made the moves to put himself in that position which tells me that he is following a plan.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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You have to build the foundation before you put up the walls and put on the roof.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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He may have brought in a bunch of guys, but IMO, they are here to change the culture more than making plays.
Yeah, thats obviously happening, if I was a young Browns player, I would really listen to Eric Barton telling me how to be a pro, while I watch him miss 13 tackles, and never stay in his gap. Or watch Bowens get blown up play after play by rookie OT's. I would definently start to feel the winning culture, the whole winner atmosphere taking over.
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Sure, they have some ability on the field, but the guys he brought in are more important in the lockre room, and at practice.
Yeah, the locker room is so united right now, luckily we have the glue of David Bowens and Kenyon Coleman. Or this team may lose all respect of their HC.
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Next year we will see him bring in even more guys
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Given the amount of draft picks next year Mangini really has put himself in a position to REALLY BUILD this team through the draft.
I hope its as good as the 4 picks in the top 50 he had last year, because this year his extra picks are late, so it will be hard to match last years amazing draft that had so many foundation players brought to this team.
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He made the moves to put himself in that position which tells me that he is following a plan.
He is following his plan, it is suceeding.
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Whats funny is that neither of us know for sure. Its all just speculation. One of us just looks at things in a positive way and the other is a pessimist. I think you are the same poster who posted what he would do, and listed his draft/FA signing. You should email that to RL cuz you are obvious more capable than a guy with three super bowl rings. People like you and DJ crack me up. You sit there on your message board pretending to know more than the guys who actually HAVE the jobs, and MAKE the decisions. I just try to understand what they are doing. You tell us what they are doing wrong and how it can be fixed. That is funny. You better get cracking on that resume---the Browns need you.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I keep seeing the approach Cleveland takes to rebuilding..ship out the vets ..replace them with familar players the coach knows..a vast overkill of the coach's former team, that they really don't want anymore..
Sure sign of someone that doesn't know what their doing and doesn't know how to scout and evaluate talent. While almost every coach is going to want a few players possibly from their former team, thats fine, but has NOTHING to do with rebuilding.
Getting rid of old vets and replacing them with old vets that are worse IS NOT REBUILDING!!!!
Drafting a bunch non-talented system project players in the second round IS NOT REBUILDING!!!!
There hasn't been a single block of rebuilding here, not an freaking penny. Plan? Building through the draft? With picks like Robo, Veik, and Mo? Or maybe we are gonna try the FA method? Bowens and Barton?
Again, there is zero evidence of any glimmer of improvment, in fact, this team is digressing in overdrive. And is headed for the cliff, when EM will lose the locker room completely. Except for his NYJ guys, of course.
This team is worse in nearly every area, and is showing no signs of improvment, and as far as potential...where is it? What young players are gonna take over roles next year? Veikune? Miaiva? Robo?
Just so everyone knows, for a "rebuilding team" we are the 12 oldest team in the NFL.
No rebuilding, no "plan", just tearing down, and bringing in old familiar vets, and drafting "good guys" rather than playmakers. Pretty simple, pretty easy to see why we are here.
It is rebuilding. The vets signed were stopgaps and cheaply(don't tell me Royal was "expensive" either), the 2nd draft picks weren't "projects" either. Most of these types of positions and players take longer to develop and that is why they picked them in year 1 rather in year 3. I am sorry, there is a plan, there is rebuilding. I am sorry you can't see it and instead whine and cry like a small little child. But you represent a mentallity. I will give you that.
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I think you are the same poster who posted what he would do, and listed his draft/FA signing.
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You tell us what they are doing wrong and how it can be fixed.
Yeah that was me, here it is....now you tell me.....who's roster is better, for the same money we spent on 12 scum players. With the same draft picks....
Myself and many other posters torched EM over his offseason while it was happening, because it was obviously stupid even to us dumb fans.
QB: Quinn & DA
RB: Jamal, McCoy, Harrison
WR: BE, Jabbar Gaffney($2mil), Bryant Johnson($3 mil), Brian Hartline, Cribbs
TE: LJ Smith, Heiden
LT: Thomas
LG: Steiny
C: Birk (yeah I offer him alot more the $4 million per than Bal)
RG: Shaffer
RT: Max Unger/Loadholt (again, depending how I felt draft day)
OLB: Kam
ILB: Rey Mala, DQ
OLB: Clay Mathews or E. Brown (depending on how I feld draft day or my "scouts" opinion)
DE: Koleman/Williams
DT: Rogers
DE: Mosely/Williams
S: Pool
S: Jones
CB: Wright
CB: Bryant McFadden($5 mil)
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People like you and DJ crack me up.
Ok, so what is it that we are wrong in? We aren't paitent with absolute morons that aren't qualified or smart enough to run an NFL franchise? EM has zero business being a head coach in this league right now, let alone running a team.
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You sit there on your message board pretending to know more than the guys who actually HAVE the jobs, and MAKE the decisions.
Sadly, THAT IS ABSOLUTLEY TRUE. There are people on here than could have outdrafted this franchise 10x over the last 10 years. Better than the people in charge, that should show how complete a joke this franchise is.
And remember before you go spouting off about EM, that the rest of the NFL DID NOT think he was someone good enough to be making decisions for them, just Randy Lerner.
And its not hindsight, the people calling EM out now, were calling him out on his draft the day of, and had pimped players that are suceeding in the NFL now. The same people that called him out for brining in Jet trash, and leaving some good FA to go to other teams.
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He may have brought in a bunch of guys, but IMO, they are here to change the culture more than making plays.
How's that Mangini culture working out for you? Let's see... players filing grievances (including some of those guys he brought in), getting blacklisted by the coaching staff out of playing time, packing it in in the second half, shipping out anyone who dares disagree with Mangini's opinion, keeping everything under lock and key.
The culture sucks. If this is his idea of step one and if this is his idea of a foundation, I'm calling for a new contractor ASAP before one POS of a house gets put up.
We're... we're good?
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Legend
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And remember before you go spouting off about EM, that the rest of the NFL DID NOT think he was someone good enough to be making decisions for them, just Randy Lerner.
so....we have some complaining Lerner hired Mangini too quickly (before other coaches even got fired).....and some complaining that noone tried to hire Mangini before we did so, so noone could have possibly wanted him 
Lerner immediately pounced on interviewing Mangini and hired him....that part is not debateable. Since we hired him so quickly, there is no way to know if he wouldn't have been hired in TB, Denver, or KC (or anywhere else for that matter) if we didn't act so quickly.
#gmstrong
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You can believe whatever makes you feel good. Nobody wanted EM, let alone giving him full control.
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THIS IS NOT A FINISHED PROJECT
Do you have ANY understanding of that AT ALL?????
The people you have listed in other postes Robert Royal, etal ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS..They are stop gaps and depth for when the replacement come or develop.
and the ONLY..I repeat ONLY sure thing of your scenario we could have gotten was your OLB and maybe your RT...(forget that we were completely soft and horribly weak up the middle...and that Center is the most important position on the line after LT and that Pitt wanted Alex Mack so bad they could taste it.)
Everyone else on your list is NOT guaranteed. How do you know we didn't talk to Matt Birk? How do you know we didn't contact his agent and his agent said no way before numbers were even discussed??? You have ZERO information on the amount of calls that go on on a daily basis with this team.
NONE of your FA's were destined to come here...THAT is a fact. All could have but you have ZERO knowledge of how likely that possibility could have taken place.
And your numbers may sound good to you but they certainly may not mesh well with a future cap consideration...Not to mention you continue to keep a cancer like BE on the roster...
Jabar Gafney???? Really??? We are getting the same production out of Massaquoi...and MoMass has just started his development....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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You can believe whatever makes you feel good. Nobody wanted EM, let alone giving him full control.
please inform us all how you know the intricacies of every NFL FO in the NFL
#gmstrong
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THIS IS NOT A FINISHED PROJECT
Do you have ANY understanding of that AT ALL?????
The people you have listed in other postes Robert Royal, etal ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS..They are stop gaps and depth for when the replacement come or develop.
So this is not a finished product. That's fine. Let's take a look at what has gone on and where we are at now.
*Mangini has turned over half of this roster. In doing so, he brought in 10 former players who the returns on have been mediocre at best.
*Some of the other players he brought in (Royal, St. Clair, Womack) have been some of the biggest weak spots on the team. Stopgaps or not, there's no excuse for dumping players and replacing them with suck.
*He entered the draft with a Top 5 pick and 2 other picks in the Top 50 and with all that, failed to come away with one impact player. A decent center (who should be sitting for Hank Fraley because he can't handle the mental game yet) is his best takeaway.
*He has taken a position of strength at QB and potentially ruined both players, both in terms of trade value and playing ability.
Mangini took a mediocre team and turned us into a joke. This is the worst team we've had here since the return and there's no excuse for it. It is difficult to make an argument for any unit's improvement under Mangini, but easy to make an argument for the regression of several. All that is without mentioning the issues he's had with grievances, complaints and his inability to deal with anyone who disagrees with him because of his ego.
I don't care that this isn't a finished product. When you want to erect a building and after the foundation is laid, you realize it was built on a sinkhole, you don't finish building it just to see if it stands. You stop dead in your tracks and start over from scratch.
I struggle to find positive aspects in what Mangini has done thus far, so why should he be allowed to continue on something that is already proving to be an epic failure? It's time to realize our mistake and move on because right now, the damage is minimal. If we give him more time, that's only further we let him dig the hole that someone else is going to have to dig out.
We're... we're good?
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there's no excuse for dumping players and replacing them with suck
THEY ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS!!!!! Get that throught your head!!!!
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failed to come away with one impact player
Says who???? You???? Peyton Manning was a #1 pick and was NOT an Impact Player his first 8 games....so you have already made this determination????
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He has taken a position of strength at QB and potentially ruined both players, both in terms of trade value and playing ability.
Again...says who????? you???? Maybe he has revealed the position for what it really was.....ever think of that???
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Mangini took a mediocre team and turned us into a joke.
No, Mangini toook a BAD team and tore it down to the limits and has yet had the opportunity to build it back up again....There is a difference.
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It is difficult to make an argument for any unit's improvement under Mangini
difficult yes...Impossible no....you just have to be intelligent and most importantly openminded and patient to see it.
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but easy to make an argument for the regression of several
Because all you are looking at is the surface and not what is underneath and what is lying in the future.
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All that is without mentioning the issues he's had with grievances, complaints and his inability to deal with anyone who disagrees with him because of his ego.
You mean the grievences turned out to be filed by Braylon Edwards ???? OK there is a good reason to not like the guy ....
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I don't care that this isn't a finished product.
Too bad...I don't care that you don't care...The fact that you don't care won't change the fact that it is not a finished product....It is what it is..you are the one who is complaining that a Cow isn't an Eagle. So you can either get used to it or keep looking like a whining little kid and cry about it.
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You stop dead in your tracks and start over from scratch.
And just what do you think he is doing????You complain that he tore the team down to nothing and agree with people who would have brought in all these FA's, etc...and then say he should tear down and start form scratch????? Well he tore down...Now let the guy have a chance to Build!!!!!
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I struggle to find positive aspects in what Mangini has done thus far, so why should he be allowed to continue on something that is already proving to be an epic failure?
Based upon WHAT???? YOU...WHO the F ARE YOU????? Get over yourself.....and that goes for allot of us out there...
We have gotten where we are because of a lot of knee jerk reactions....Glad to see you want to stop that trend...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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THEY ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS!!!!! Get that throught your head!!!!
Not permanently, but they were brought in to play the positions vacated by holes that Mangini created. I'm pretty darn sure that constitutes a replacement by any normal definition.
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Says who???? You???? Peyton Manning was a #1 pick and was NOT an Impact Player his first 8 games....so you have already made this determination????
First of all, none of them are making any real impact on our team other than playing and outside of one game by MoMass. Could they become one eventually? Possibly, but when you're picking in the Top 5, there is an expectation that you get a guy that makes an impact NOW, not in a few years *if*they develop.
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Again...says who????? you???? Maybe he has revealed the position for what it really was.....ever think of that???
Yes, that's it, DA looked like a solid backup last year and Brady looked like a potential starter, but thankfully we had Mangini to reveal the truth that anything above a 40 QB rating for DA is overachieving and Brady is a bust after 2.5 games.
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No, Mangini toook a BAD team and tore it down to the limits and has yet had the opportunity to build it back up again....There is a difference.
We were 4-8 before both our QBs kicked the bucket last year and 4 of those losses were within 4 points. We could've easily been .500 at that point or even 8-4 if we would've found a way to win. Mangini had a full set of Top-5-in-every-round picks and a free agent period to improve upon that. This year, we're getting beaten by over 15ppg on average and our roster sucks beyond '99 levels. Well done Mangini!
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difficult yes...Impossible no....you just have to be intelligent and most importantly openminded and patient to see it.
Name for me a unit that Mangini has improved. Our QBs have been destroyed, our WR can't catch a pass, our TE can't catch either, the right side of our OL can't block, our running game is terrible, our front seven can't stop the run, can't tackle and can't rush the passer consistently and our defensive backs can't tackle and get torched all game. Anyone "intelligent" can see that.
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Because all you are looking at is the surface and not what is underneath and what is lying in the future.
What is underneath is rot and what is lying in the future is the decay of a once proud franchise.
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You mean the grievences turned out to be filed by Braylon Edwards ???? OK there is a good reason to not like the guy ....
What about the one filed by Abe Elam, who he brought in here himself?
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Too bad...I don't care that you don't care...The fact that you don't care won't change the fact that it is not a finished product....It is what it is..you are the one who is complaining that a Cow isn't an Eagle. So you can either get used to it or keep looking like a whining little kid and cry about it.
I've gotten used to losing and watching dictators and incompetent boobs waste several years of Cleveland Browns football, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
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And just what do you think he is doing????You complain that he tore the team down to nothing and agree with people who would have brought in all these FA's, etc...and then say he should tear down and start form scratch????? Well he tore down...Now let the guy have a chance to Build!!!!!
When you tear down this poorly, you've lost your chance to build.
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Based upon WHAT???? YOU...WHO the F ARE YOU????? Get over yourself.....and that goes for allot of us out there...
We have gotten where we are because of a lot of knee jerk reactions....Glad to see you want to stop that trend...
Who am I? I'm a fan who hasn't been slamming pitchers of Mangini Kool Aid who has seen so many losing regimes in the past few years that he can identify one quickly now. It's not just me saying it, it's other fans and quite honestly, from what I've read almost all the NFL outside Cleveland agrees. Whether or not you're willing to take off the Mangini blinders and realize just how much of an abomination this team has become under him is none of my concern.
We're... we're good?
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Most of the NFL? Great. Like they know what is going on in Cleveland, other than covering their loverboy Savage's rearend for his failures.
Spectre you are the one with blinders. You listen to group think and lose your individuality.
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Most of the NFL? Great. Like they know what is going on in Cleveland, other than covering their loverboy Savage's rearend for his failures.
Spectre you are the one with blinders. You listen to group think and lose your individuality.
You think I'm saying this because everyone else is? I hated the hire when it was first rushed through and I was fought by a lot of people calling for his head now. I gave Mangini a chance. Now, I see a team that has been mutilated and an egomaniac who learned none of the lessons necessary to succeed in the NFL. That's why I stop this before it gets farther along, not because I'm a sheep.
I don't see how you can be sitting content with this regime having watched this team for 7 games this year. It's beyond belief how bad we are.
We're... we're good?
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Most of the NFL? Great. Like they know what is going on in Cleveland, other than covering their loverboy Savage's rearend for his failures.
Spectre you are the one with blinders. You listen to group think and lose your individuality.
You think I'm saying this because everyone else is? I hated the hire when it was first rushed through and I was fought by a lot of people calling for his head now. I gave Mangini a chance. Now, I see a team that has been mutilated and an egomaniac who learned none of the lessons necessary to succeed in the NFL. That's why I stop this before it gets farther along, not because I'm a sheep.
I don't see how you can be sitting content with this regime having watched this team for 7 games this year. It's beyond belief how bad we are.
I am content, because it is what it is. Once the decision by Lerner to overhaul was made IMO even before Mangini was hired, this was the outlook. I didn't realize it to spring, but we must accept these facts and stop forcing this team to play onto a level they simply cannot. Teams with offensive machines like the Steeler and Packers will put up a ton of yards. They just do and will do it to more teams than just the Browns. I know those games are very difficult sells. As a fan, you have to take the reality of the situation and look for winnable games.
Whining because you don't like the hire or how the process is being handled, gives you no right to condemn this as a failure. It is the process that needs to be watched and studied. I find everything to be typical of a bottom of the barrel team. It can't get any worse because we are at the bottom. But it may not get nearly as good as we want either during the next years, which is when fan outrage needs to show itself. But that is at least a year off, maybe more.
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Not permanently
THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR ENTIRE POST.
This year is a wash Forget about this year...It's gone...it was never going to be....quit clinging to it...you can say you aren't but in reality you are because you can't get past this current roster....
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We were 4-8 before both our QBs kicked the bucket last year and 4 of those losses were within 4 points. We could've easily been .500 at that point or even 8-4 if we would've found a way to win. Mangini had a full set of Top-5-in-every-round picks and a free agent period to improve upon that. This year, we're getting beaten by over 15ppg on average and our roster sucks beyond '99 levels. Well done Mangini!
This is NOT last year...it is not last years schedule, we do not play last years teams..GET OVER IT...
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Name for me a unit that Mangini has improved. Our QBs have been destroyed, our WR can't catch a pass, our TE can't catch either, the right side of our OL can't block, our running game is terrible, our front seven can't stop the run, can't tackle and can't rush the passer consistently and our defensive backs can't tackle and get torched all game. Anyone "intelligent" can see that.
Our QB's were never that good to start with...that is what you don't understand...you can't destroy what wasn't there to start with...
Our WR's can't get a ball near them to catch....
Our TE's can actually Block unlike that cancer playing in Tampa. "Oh gee lets keep this tumor on my leg...it's just so pretty...I don't have anything to replace it...I don't care if it is malignant"......That is basically what you are saying when you whine about Winslow......
So last year our Right side and middle of our Line sucked...this year our Right side sucks.....I call that improvement.
Our running game was always terrible...what has changed?
Despite all the bad things you said about the defense...they still play better than our Defense last year. (Don't look at the stats this is not last years teams!!!!!)The difference is all those things usually only happen when they have been on the field for 3/4's of the game this year.
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What is underneath is rot and what is lying in the future is the decay of a once proud franchise.
Says Nostrodamus
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What about the one filed by Abe Elam, who he brought in here himself?
Oh my goodness....we have ONE grievence from a player not named Braylon Edwards....Bring out the rail...lets get the guy out of here....he must really be awful
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but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
It doesn't mean you have to add to the idiocy either...You think I am happy with this record???You think I am not tired of rebuilding??? You think I am not embarrased with some of the play I have seen??? But geez a little understanding and not flying off the handle over things the idiot media have been saying(which usually ends up being wrong anyway) goes a long way....
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When you tear down this poorly, you've lost your chance to build.
That is a STUPID comment!!!!! enough said...
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It's not just me saying it, it's other fans and quite honestly, from what I've read almost all the NFL outside Cleveland agrees.
Here' is your problem....what the heck do they know about what is truly going on inside those doors at Berea when we don't even know????and what good is piling on the crap that they are saying going to do anyone including Mangini and his team???
When are you going to realize that YOU are the one who has the prroblem ...not Mangini and company...I know your frustrated...hell so am I...But the plain fact of the matter is the WE DON'T KNOW SQUAT!!!! And too many of us have ego's bigger than Mangini and think they do know everything and are doing NOTHING but making assumptions and creating nothing but a cloud of negativity for them to try and climb out of... We have had nothing but incorrect story after incorrect story come out of the media that has done nothing but turn negativity towards the Browns and Mangini.... By the time we find out they are incorrect...it is too late...the damage is done...we have already Booed, we have alread rained down our fury...we have already vented our frustrations.......INCORRECTLY
You should have a freaking brain and understand that this year was purposely thrown under the bus to tear the team down as much as possible...BUT NO...you hang on to last year and you harp on this year and have absolutely ZERO vision because you can't get past your own ego.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Whining because you don't like the hire or how the process is being handled, gives you no right to condemn this as a failure. It is the process that needs to be watched and studied. I find everything to be typical of a bottom of the barrel team. It can't get any worse because we are at the bottom. But it may not get nearly as good as we want either during the next years, which is when fan outrage needs to show itself. But that is at least a year off, maybe more.
You know, I said it jokingly in response to one of your first posts on here but it bears repeating..........
You must be a relative of Eric Mangini if you actually believe this crap.
I can see no other explanation for such fervent defense of the man that is the current HC.
The team did not start out with no talent. Mangini gutted what talent we had and has managed to alienate what little we have left.
And trying to say that people are angry with the little man in Berea because they are somehow defending Phil Savage is beyond ludicrous.
Usually guys that show up and immediately start posting like there is no tomorrow have an axe to grind. I think you've ground yours down to the handle.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Watch Mangini go one-and-done if he keeps this up and we'll see who knows what he's talking about. If you don't think it's a possibility, then you haven't heard Randy Lerner speak in the rare appearances he's made. He's a good guy. Watching this team languish is painful to him, I assure you. He wants us to win... badly. Granted, he hasn't a clue how to actually go about doing it, but if fans, advisors and players alike put it into his head that Mangini is a cancer who needs to be removed immediately before things get any worse, it will be done.
Don't be surprised in the least if we're looking for a new coach next year, despite your unwaivering support of failure.
We're... we're good?
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It is rebuilding. The vets signed were stopgaps and cheaply(don't tell me Royal was "expensive" either), the 2nd draft picks weren't "projects" either. Most of these types of positions and players take longer to develop and that is why they picked them in year 1 rather in year 3. I am sorry, there is a plan, there is rebuilding. I am sorry you can't see it and instead whine and cry like a small little child. But you represent a mentallity. I will give you that.
Here are some facts for your excuses:
1. Royal makes 2.5mil/season...for a bum TE, that's too much...he's a backup-blocking TE at best...for a 30yo going downhill that IS expensive
2. Veikune isn't a project? He can't get playing time over Maiava, Trusnik and should have been cut based on preseason play...yeah, he is not a project, lol.
The WRs: there are more than enough WR picked after them that look much better AND contribute: Wallace, Collie, Knox.....Massa would not start on any other NFL team...in CLE he is the #1 now, lol
Heck, even Mack is a project for a C...he has sooo many issues which a 1st round C should NOT have....we have ZERO impact from the draft...we drafted 3 Offense players in the top 50 and our Offense has regressed BIG TIME....they ARE projects who not only DO NOT impact but can't even play at a competitive NFL level right now...again = projects...after all that's the definition of projects....we are playing PROJECTS and ST-REJECTS and that may be the reason we get spanked every sunday....just maybe
3. I see the plan.....having a good plan is useless if you can't EXECUTE that plan....that's my problem....probably every decent poster on here could have come up with that EXCELLENT plan, lol.....the difficult thing is EXECUTING it....that's what you are ignoring...talk about the guys he brought in FOR THAT plan to work....the 2nd rounders ahould be "building blocks" but they look like 4th-6th round projects...you think Massa magically learns to catch passes with his hands, which he didn't do at Georgia and up here? or doesn't drop every 5th pass that hits him between the numbers? You think Veikune magically runs better than 4.9 and does not look like a turtle chasing a blocking TE( will never forget that play in preseason against Bears...right there I knew he was a bust)? or Robo shows ANYTHING?
I doubt it....there is no EVIDENCE or glimpses of that...and your argument is? He has a plan?
Who's the sheep here? Give me some arguments instead of excuses...show me where our 2nd rounders showed promise....tell me why Hall can't see the field despite all the LB injuries...is he really worse than Trusnik? Is Mangini playing favs? no? than why did/does Womack start over Hank? The only 2 games we were halfway competitive Hank was in there bailing out the project-C picked at #21 overall who has his hands full snapping the ball and finishing blocks....are you gonna tell me Womack is playing better than Hank? or Royal is/was better than Heiden? Bowens/Trusnik better than Hall? Poteat over Adams in the first 2-3 games at NB? Again, if I'm wrong give me arguments and plays....I doubt you will be able to because the evidence is smacking everyone with decent football knowledge right in the face.....he plays favs and wants his players to play hard, lol...I said it then and I'll say it now:
This guy is a bigoted clown....he doen't even know it, really...my guess is it's a subconscious thing....and I'm 100% positive the guy has a serious inferiority complex of some sort....like all people who DEMAND respect instead of earning it have....he demnads it because he does not know how to earn it, he's a robot...his "communication problems" are well documented and reported..he can't MANAGE different personalities, that's why he DEMANDS 1 sort of personality....it's really sad from a psychological standpoint and I feel for him....but the Browns should not be his therapy toy
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Don't be surprised in the least if we're looking for a new coach next year
Will I be suprised...no...Will I think it is the wrong move...with the LIMITED information I have at this time that I know is TRUE........probably
Should more substantiated information come out showing that Mangini is really screwing things up behind those doors....(And Grossi, Mary Kay, and company are not by any means substantiated sources...heck 95% of the media is clueless and incorrect on issues with the Browns....)Then yeah I would support the move....
But the problem is that we don't get that straight poop...and we get Grossi, and Mary Kay, who are clueless....And they are shaping the media image of the Browns...which in turn has been shaping YOUR image....Along with play by a team that has not the talent to compete because it was torn down on purpose....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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despite your unwaivering support of failure.
No I think it is you who is supporting failure by continuing the same pattern of ego driven knee jerk reactions and offering your support to dump on this team before it has had a chance to rebuild....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Whos' gonna replace those stop gaps player EM brought in Pete.....EM's draft picks? Younger FA's brought in? Rookies that are taken next spring? As for FA's, Matt Birk, like most is gonna go to a team thats pays him well. Of course us being a total joke, it will cost us more to go and get guys, we have to over pay. But rather than a dime on trash heap jet players we could have went out and gotten a center, that has 3-4 years left, and 2 WR's that are young, and have good size. Therefore freeing up the draft to take the BPA, which would have yielded starters and potential stars. Your right Gaffney is giving the same production, well without the drops, and cost about the same, only we had to spend a second rounder to get MoMass, when that pick should have been Lesean McCoy. We should have used our frist rounder on Clay Mathews Jr or Everett Brown, because both were good natural pass rushers perfect for our 34. I won't even get into taking Robo over Rey, that pick sums up Eric Mangini's personel moves. Again, if there is some plan, and all these vets are "stop gaps" then who is it that going to take over for them...because if they are stop gaps, they won't be here next year. So is it the draft or FA that will yield replacements, because EM has already proven he has no idea how to use either. Lastly, one of the reasons EM was hired is because he thought he could win with this group, with a few adjustments of course. Interesting enough, he turned the roster over quite a bit, and brought "his guys" in. Funny, all his "stop gaps" were Jets. Of course everyone with a brain, knew that was not possible. That we were 2 offseasons from playoff contention. Of course, we are now still 2 offseasons away. Just interesting that EM comes in, claims he can win now, brings in his NY guys, but its stop gap....... right...... 
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Whos' gonna replace those stop gaps player EM brought in Pete.....EM's draft picks? Younger FA's brought in?
Rookies that are taken next spring?
That's EXACTLY what Savage did. EXACTLY.
The plan is sound. The question is execution.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We saw where that landed him, plans are all the same, increase talent through the draft, supplement with FA's.
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We saw where that landed him, plans are all the same, increase talent through the draft, supplement with FA's.
Yes? So?
Robo over Rey was easy sound. Rey can't play the 2 gap 3-4. Like never, never and more never. Rey can't take a hit or he gives out, Rey doesn't have the physical ability to take on blockers. All he does is run around the field and clean up plays the DL didn't get. That is so 4-3. Rey isn't a overly valuable player either, or he doesn't fall to the 2nd round. He has problems even in the 4-3. His game against the Texans, he sucked seriously bad. When is on, he is good. When he is off, he sucks really really bad.
But I still hear the whining. Is shows how stupid fans can be. This fanbase has completely fallen apart and it is pathetic.
Oh yeah 1.8 for Royal not 2.5.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Mac - Time for Browns to Admit
Mistake with Mangini
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