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Oh yeah 1.8 for Royal not 2.5.
Contract Information for Robert Royal
3/4/2009: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal includes $3 million guaranteed. 2009-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent
I don't know the exact structure...usually the base salary grows...and I don't think EM will cut him after 1 year and 3mil guaranteed...avg is 2.5, maybe 2mil over his 1st 2 years, which would still be too much for a 30yo backup TE
Oh and it's telling you didn't touch any other point I made....I know..he has a plan and I'm just not patient enough or don't see the light....or whatever 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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We saw where that landed him, plans are all the same, increase talent through the draft, supplement with FA's.
Hello..................did you not read where I said the plan was sound? 
Savage had the right plan. Lemme 'splain it to ya:
1) Tear out the people that didn't fit (brought in by the previous regime or were overpriced) and supplement with short-term, CHEAP fixes.
2) Rebuild with many draft picks and bring in some solid free-agents during the next phase.
3) By the third phase, invest heavily in free agents and blow your draft picks to acquire the rest of the parts you need.
2005, Savage tore this thing down. We sucked.
2007 we went 10-6 because with the money we saved against the cap, we spent big on free agents. That's how we got great play from the offensive line.
BUT, that's also where Savage blew it. His PLAN was good. His EXECUTION was flawed. He wasted a 2nd round pick on a 4-3 DT to play in the 3-4. He spent an extra 2nd round pick on get Quinn. He failed to crack the whip on Edwards, creating a guy that was too big to be handled by milkdud and Savage, and then any coach we hired.
So........again..........the plan was sound. The execution was what failed.
So here we are..........again..........in a tear-down. That brings us back to execution.
Will Mangini bring in the right players? I dunno. Savage brought in Edwards with his 1st pick. 'Gini brought in Mack. Will 'Gini bring in a great next 1st rounder, or will he bring us another Wimbley?
We don't know the answers to those questions. Only time will answer that.
The plan works. Execution is the question........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Whos' gonna replace those stop gaps player EM brought in Pete.....EM's draft picks? Younger FA's brought in?
Why don't you wait and find out and THEN make judgement...
As for the rest of your post ...I don't even know where to begin to tell you how short sighted and wrong you are...
But I'll try....
Gaffney will not improve...Momass will..enough said...we win with how we did things...
Matthews or Brown would have been OK ......But our OLine was weak in the middle and on the right side....I will always support investing in the trenches first....
You didn't get into Rey Rey...but I will....Rey Rey was not going to fit in on this defense. He is too undiciplined a player. He is a free lancer...We would be bashing our heads into walls moaning about how he was out of position play after play after play....we needed WR's.....BADLY think about it...Braylon was gone bud....his time was ticking so Syndric Steptoe was going to be our next #1.....Syndric STEPTOE!!!!!! and Robo was touted as the most NFL ready....Outside of a couple OLineman playing on bad teams...an Olineman playing on a good team (although even we manhandled him )...and 2 Linebackers that combined have about 10 tackles on the YEAR....there is no one in the 2nd round giving solid minutes to their teams(I'll even give you McCoy).......so all in all the Browns did not do as bad as you are implying.
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Just interesting that EM comes in, claims he can win now
What are you????Stupid???? What the heck is he suppossed to say????....If he says to the public that he is going to tear the team to nothing in the first year and that we are going to suck...then the ther media will be all over him...the fans will be all over him..........and he loses the team before he even starts.....NO COACH EVER SAYS THAT HIS TEAM "CAN'T" WIN.....They may say something along the lines of "if we don't improve...." or "If things stay the way they are...", etc. but they never say straight out that the team can't win....AND YOU KNOW THAT....
This isn't instant coffee that we are making here...and we had to strip it down to its basest level to start...THIS IS GOING TO TAKE TIME
Now here we are..and the way I see it...We can't trust the media...because 95% of what they are saying is wrong and biased to start with(part of that is because Mangini keep things close to the chest and the media both good and bad have to make suppositions to make their stories....but we saw how bad things were when it was an open house.....I prefer the closed)....We can't trust our eyes, because the team in front of us simply isn't telented enough to compete and show us anything right now....I am not even saying that Mangini is doing a good job...What I am saying is what is going on is not the same thing as the story that is being presented to us by the media and the product on the field....And we have to STOP ADDING TO THE IDIOCY AND NEGATIVITY surrounding this team.
Does that mean we have to be happy with what we have seen so far...Heck no...I am not happy...in fact I am embarrased by what I have seen on the field....But please tell me what do you hope to accomplish with your little tirades???? to get Mangini fired???? so that another coach...be it Cowher, Shanahan, or whoever can come in here and have to do the same thing......strip down...suck for a year...get the vitrol of the fans and media and then get fired again???? because that is EXACTLY what would happen.
LET THE MAN DO HIS JOB........
GET OUT OF THE WAY.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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What are you????Stupid???? What the heck is he suppossed to say????....If he says to the public that he is going to tear the team to nothing in the first year and that we are going to suck...then the ther media will be all over him...the fans will be all over him..........and he loses the team before he even starts.....NO COACH EVER SAYS THAT HIS TEAM "CAN'T" WIN.....They may say something along the lines of "if we don't improve...." or "If things stay the way they are...", etc. but they never say straight out that the team can't win....AND YOU KNOW THAT....
Then you are implying that Lerner is...stupid...because he bought it..hook line and sinker..
BTW ..to you and Toad..Chris Palmer told Policy/Clark that it was going to take time to get that expansion team respectable..he didn't lie..even if it got him fired..among other things..
Fact is Lerner was too quick to jump on Gini, instead of doing it by the book..like he said he was going to do.
Now he's ticked..just watch how this plays out..
Pioli told him he was going to tear it down..and I know he knows more about talent than EM does..there was no way I thought he could win with this team..no way...
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Oh so you know everything that was said between Mangini and Lerner now do you???
Quit talking about things you know nothing about...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Palmer was truthful....where did it get him????? Oh gee.....nice to meet you Butch!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Did you read lerner's email reply on the OBR? Change be a brewing and I just got that feeling that its coming very soon.
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LOL. Pioli told Lerner he was going to "tear it down'? Guess what, so did Mangini. Lerner had no envisions of a repeat of the last 10 years, thus no matter who came in, it was going to be torn down. The firings that began even before the new coach/gm were announced were just the beginning.
The fact is, Lerner saw this function being more important to having a coach lead this vision on the field with personal decisions shared in the front office rather than a suit like Pioli having all the power. Mankok both go to him equally and are accountable together, hence the name man.
This has been said several times and stupid Browns fans still can't get it. The fanbase is dumb and getting dumber.
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Whats the matter, don't like to be questioned on your remarks?
Bruised ego????
Get over yourself..quit being foolish..we all know what EM spun on Lerner..and then what he did..and now RL is ticked ..lets see whats going to shake down now..
Palmer was truthful....where did it get him?????
Why you being redundant??
I said that..
Mourg.. I read it..and one comment reveiled how ticked RL is right now..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/09 08:56 AM.
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Did you read lerner's email reply on the OBR? Change be a brewing and I just got that feeling that its coming very soon.
I have no idea what you are talking about...can you point me to that email...or PM please.
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http://cle.scout.com/its free stuff on their front page
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Whats the matter, don't like to be questioned on your remarks?
Bruised ego????
Get over yourself..quit being foolish..we all know what EM spun on Lerner..and then what he did..and now RL is ticked ..lets see whats going to shake down now..
We all know what EM sold to Lerner? Yup, major rebuilding which is what Lerner wanted. Believe what you want Attack, that kind of weak minded thinking has sent the Browns down to nothing, continue on.
Oh yeah, I read Lerner's email. Big change is coming? Nope. The big change has already happened.
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LOL. Pioli told Lerner he was going to "tear it down'? Yes ..he did.. Guess what, so did Mangini. Uh...no he didn't...  The fact is, Lerner saw this function being more important to having a coach lead this vision on the field with personal decisions shared in the front office rather than a suit like Pioli having all the power. Mankok both go to him equally and are accountable together, hence the name man.
Dude what he did was give all the power to the HC...just like he did Botch..he went opposite of what he did with Phil/Rac..when the GM had the most power..now he gave it to the HC..gave him a GM he could work with..who wasn't going to rub him the wrong way..dude is a figure-head...well coach did what Pioli said he was going to do.. tore it down..
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http://cle.scout.com/
its free stuff on their front page
Which stills says nothing. A "Team President" is just a garbage position unless they have GM power. That is what it is.
Lerner is playing you idiots so you will shutup. Yes, you should shutup.
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LOL. Pioli told Lerner he was going to "tear it down'?
Yes ..he did..
Guess what, so did Mangini.
Uh...no he didn't...
The fact is, Lerner saw this function being more important to having a coach lead this vision on the field with personal decisions shared in the front office rather than a suit like Pioli having all the power. Mankok both go to him equally and are accountable together, hence the name man.
Dude what he did was give all the power to the HC...just like he did Botch..he went opposite of what he did with Phil/Rac..when the GM had the most power..now he gave it to the HC..gave him a GM he could work with..who wasn't going to rub him the wrong way..dude is a figure-head...well coach did what Pioli said he was going to do.. tore it down..
Dude, yes Mangini did. Deal with that reality. Move on Attack, your making a fool of yourself.
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The only question remaining is does Randy lerner cook the turkey before thanksgiving. Mangini is toast and everyone knows it. His product is worse than any team in the history of the Cleveland Browns. Someone's head is gonna roll.
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The only question remaining is does Randy lerner cook the turkey before thanksgiving. Mangini is toast and everyone knows it. His product is worse than any team in the history of the Cleveland Browns. Someone's head is gonna roll.
This post is toast.
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....we all know what EM spun on Lerner..and then what he did..and now RL is ticked ..lets see whats going to shake down now..
I don't know man - do we really know what EM told Lerner?
We can speculate, but we don't know for sure.
In my opinion a new regime deserves time... but there's a lot of things that have looked bad (and I'm not even talking about an iffy draft, or the bus ride, which I didn't really have a problem with but it also seemed unwise, too ). If RL fired Mangini, I wouldn't be all that unhappy about it.
One of the things I wonder is how much do the players like their coach? It's not like guys are stepping up and giving tons of moral support in public.
You don't need to be buddies with the HC, but if 90% of the team can't stand their coach, that ain't good, either.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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When you resort to defending yourself with name calling it really shows how small of a mind one possesses. The fact you seem to thrive on Mangini's daboll sweat is a bit disturbing.
I kinda get the image of a closet full of Mangini pictures and candles with you chanting I wont let them hurt you Eric baby.
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When you resort to defending yourself with name calling it really shows how small of a mind one possesses. The fact you seem to thrive on Mangini's daboll sweat is a bit disturbing.
I kinda get the image of a closet full of Mangini pictures and candles with you chanting I wont let them hurt you Eric baby.
LOL. Talk about namecalling. I don't thrive on anybodies sweat little man. The fact you make presumptions without a bit of fact is pathetic. It shows what you are all about and what you stand for. I already stated where I stand on Mankok. Dig a little and read. So we disagree, I however will react accordingly toward dumb posts and you make several.
Grow up and learn a little class. Stop acting like a angry little kid that doesn't get the candy he wanted. You are a representation of the Browns fanbase and the stupidity it has become.
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I'm not to go back to archived threads but in some articles there were remarks about the new hires..
RL was basing his decisions on having a experienced HC..not giving the power to the GM..he felt the problem was coaching..well Gini fed into that..it was felt that what was killing the Browns was a lack of coaching/discipline..not personnel...
The question was how could a 10-6 team sudden plummet to 4-10???
Bad coaching..actual talent/schedule was not factored in.
RL was fed a plate of baked coaching and Gini saw he was going to have to put the team into the broiler.
Lerner didn't want a repeat of Savage by hiring Pioli and then letting him hire the coach..it was stated who SP was going to consider...and I don't think any were experienced..
He jumped the gun by cannonballing himself into Mangini as soon as he heard dude was fired..he was in a conference and someone told him that Gini was let go..BAM!..
Spoonfed. We all know what EM sold to Lerner? Yup, major rebuilding which is what Lerner wanted. Believe what you want Attack, that kind of weak minded thinking has sent the Browns down to nothing, continue on.
Your name fits your mentality..Mangini said changes would be made but not a total wreak of the team. U honestly believe that if RL had a vision that his team would look like it does now he'd woulda bought into it?
Anyway the main reason Pioli isn't here..besides the sense something is wrong with the Browns..he WOULD NOT work with Mangini.
Funny ,the main debate in here for months was Toad vs various board members that the team was rebuilding..and the others were saying it wasn't .
But to come fill circle is how this mess is dealt with..thats the concern now.
..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/09 10:04 AM.
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It was well documented and talked about that Pioli told Randy he would need alittle time, and EM told RL he could win now.
Nobody is prentending to know exactly what was said...but that was the jist, and now EM has done a 180 after his "plan" is taking him into the dumps, his team hates him, he blew the QB situation to hell, his draft was the worst ever, and his Jet players are jokes, blackouts are looming, fans organizing protests, players filing greivances, the team isnt even competitive. It really can't get any worse, I think.
If I were Randy, and I trusted EM, I would feel like I was lied too, hence probably why he went out and hired Bernie officially. The wheels are in motion.
I think Randy is finally seeing the light, I really do. Firing EM, and going out and getting a football person to be president or whatever the title, is not a step back, or a garbage title.
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It was well documented and talked about that Pioli told Randy he would need alittle time, and EM told RL he could win now.
it was well speculated not documented....neither Mangini nor Lerner ever said that publicly....
#gmstrong
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When you resort to defending yourself with name calling it really shows how small of a mind one possesses. The fact you seem to thrive on Mangini's daboll sweat is a bit disturbing.
I kinda get the image of a closet full of Mangini pictures and candles with you chanting I wont let them hurt you Eric baby.
LOL. Talk about namecalling. I don't thrive on anybodies sweat little man. The fact you make presumptions without a bit of fact is pathetic. It shows what you are all about and what you stand for. I already stated where I stand on Mankok. Dig a little and read. So we disagree, I however will react accordingly toward dumb posts and you make several.
Grow up and learn a little class. Stop acting like a angry little kid that doesn't get the candy he wanted. You are a representation of the Browns fanbase and the stupidity it has become.
Regardless of your viewpoints, you need to settle down. You're getting out of line.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Regardless of your viewpoints, you need to settle down. You're getting out of line.
Agreed. It's boardering on troll-like.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Why don't you wait and find out and THEN make judgement...
HELLO!!!! THERE ARE NO PLAYERS TO TAKE THOSE ROLES...NONE. Because instead of properly drafting and using FA, he completely blew it. Signing McFadden, Gaffney, Birk, for alittle over market would have given us much more, 10 times more production that cutting Shaffer, and signing St. Claire, signing Poteat, Bowens, Barton, Noah Herron...what other jets am I missing. Or hey, go out and outbid the Jets for Jim Leonhard, agian that would require EM to know how to properly search the NFL for talent, but he can't so he went out and got security blankets from his former team.
He passed on FA after FA that made sense for this team, in order to sign and trade for Jet players. Heck, Bartel clearly outplayed Ratliff in the preseason, yet who did we keep? and why is that?
Robo and Veikune are not NFL players, period. You can claim they need more and yada yada, i've seen enough of Robo at the college level to know he has no chance as an NFL WR. Veikune was an average DE in a terrible conference, a guy we trying to move everywhere on defense but corner, and its not working at all.
He already shown be telling Lerner he can win now, and by his draft picks that he can't evaluate NFL talent period. His coaching is another topic, but the dude has no clue what to look for in NFL talent, he wants choir boys that are versatile.
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Rey Rey was not going to fit in on this defense. He is too undiciplined a player. He is a free lancer...We would be bashing our heads into walls moaning about how he was out of position play after play after play....we needed WR's.....BADLY think about it...Braylon was gone bud....
So we go out and take 4th round talent in the second round 2 times? What!? Rey wouldnt fit his defense?  Free lancer? Missing his gaps? You mean like all the other LB's that we have....without his playmaking ability.
Drafting for needs is another sure sign of stupidity....always take the BPA....ALWAYS when your at the point we are..always.
Of course, after seeing EM's talent evaluation skills, maybe he thought they were the BPA.
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NRTU So the team got torn down. Now we have a younger team, a more cap friendly team and 11 draft picks that will prolly be relatively high in each round. The question is: Do we trust Man/Kok to make the right decisions during free agency and the draft?
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I've no idea where this should go, but I just ran across it and had to drop the books for a sec and post it for all to see and understand.
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Still, the notoriously quiet Browns owner Randy Lerner is taking the threat seriously and responded in an email to the Akron Beacon-Journal.
''On the grounds of frustration and irritation with performance, then that's the medicine I [we] are going to take, and I accept that. The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising," Lerner wrote.
(Hmm . . . no direction, and a 4-12 season not surprising. Could that be a response to former G.M. Phil Savage's comments this week?)
''It's been way too long since the Browns have had anything to feel good about or invest in, and it's clear that the doubt and negativity are taking on a life of their own," Lerner continued.
''What I can say is that we, and I, have remained open to new and fresh ideas and thinking and people with passion for the Browns and football experience getting involved and with hope and luck and support, making a difference. We won't become entrenched or stubborn and despite my allergy to be more conspicuous, I do remain eager to seek help and guidance from any and all corners.''
This was clipped from PFT.
Take note of this comment: "The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. "
This tells everyone that Lerner KNEW we were in a rebuilding mode. Like it or not, believe it or not, Mangini and Lerner were on the same page in that regard.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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This was clipped from PFT.
Take note of this comment: "The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. "
This tells everyone that Lerner KNEW we were in a rebuilding mode. Like it or not, believe it or not, Mangini and Lerner were on the same page in that regard.
Phil said they were going to rebuild the culture of the Browns didn't he?
And yes he tore it down...but he also said the team had no talent and that needed to improved but the culture he was speaking of was the Woe is me mentality ...right?
Culture doesn't immediately imply extreme personnel change..Lerner knew there would be change but don't tell me he knew this was going to happened.
Now it's possible that Gini/Lerner are on the same page after a lot of talks/meetings...but I will question that for a while...I know he said he was going to change some things, and tinker with some things..but I seriously doubt RL wa envisioning this mess.
if it was chrystal clear that Gini had announced that to Lerner, and we saw it..why did U have to argue with a ton of people that it was a rebuild and they were saying it wasn't?
It's because he never came out and said total rebuild..
And I see that Bernie's investment in the organization wasn't just a casual thing..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/09 01:35 PM.
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I've no idea where this should go, but I just ran across it and had to drop the books for a sec and post it for all to see and understand.
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Still, the notoriously quiet Browns owner Randy Lerner is taking the threat seriously and responded in an email to the Akron Beacon-Journal.
''On the grounds of frustration and irritation with performance, then that's the medicine I [we] are going to take, and I accept that. The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising," Lerner wrote.
(Hmm . . . no direction, and a 4-12 season not surprising. Could that be a response to former G.M. Phil Savage's comments this week?)
''It's been way too long since the Browns have had anything to feel good about or invest in, and it's clear that the doubt and negativity are taking on a life of their own," Lerner continued.
''What I can say is that we, and I, have remained open to new and fresh ideas and thinking and people with passion for the Browns and football experience getting involved and with hope and luck and support, making a difference. We won't become entrenched or stubborn and despite my allergy to be more conspicuous, I do remain eager to seek help and guidance from any and all corners.''
This was clipped from PFT.
Take note of this comment: "The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. "
This tells everyone that Lerner KNEW we were in a rebuilding mode. Like it or not, believe it or not, Mangini and Lerner were on the same page in that regard.
Possibly, more likely it meant rebuilding the philosophy of the Browns, from the country club the locker room was last year to a discipline based organization. Not necessarily gutting the team like a shot deer.
#GMSTRONG
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Practice Squad
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Quote:
This was clipped from PFT.
Take note of this comment: "The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. "
This tells everyone that Lerner KNEW we were in a rebuilding mode. Like it or not, believe it or not, Mangini and Lerner were on the same page in that regard.
Phil said they were going to rebuild the culture of the Browns didn't he?
And yes he tore it down...but he also said the team had no talent and that needed to improved but the culture he was speaking of was the Woe is me mentality ...right?
Culture doesn't immediately imply extreme personnel change..
Now it's possible that Gini/Lerner were on the same page..but I will question that for a while...I know he said he was going to change some things, and tinker with some things..but I seriously doubt RL wa envisioning this mess.
And I see that Bernie's investment in the organization wasn't just a casual thing..
I seriously doubt RL envisioned much better either. More competitive? Probably. But everybody was waiting for St.Quinn, which never came. The unsettled QB play when neither guy is Mankok's guy is probably the crux of Lerner's questions, considering he pulled the strings for the Quinn deal
My take is that Mankok said it would "win with Quinn" then turns around and says it can't win with Quinn after they see footage of him. Lerner blows up but relaxes by March and tries to convince Mankok Quinn can be good, BUT if they can get a 1st rounder he will back the decision. Mankok tries and tries......and tries some more. But to no avail. The league won't bite. If Mankok would of had their way, Quinn is gone for whatever the going price is. The other risk they took was that somebody would trade something of value for Derek Anderson after they picked up his bonus......to no avail again, the league won't bite. At this point, Mankok is SURE something is wrong with both guys, especially Quinn(Anderson's problems were already known). But Lerner still insists through the summer, Quinn is the man for the job.
We get to camp, Mankok isn't happy, the QB situation is in turmoil. Neither guy looks like crap and they know it. Quinn sorta "gets better" as camp goes on, but his decision making is far to slow besides have mechanical issues throwing down field,it would show in the regular season. Anderson seems to decline as camp goes along. Lerner again presses Mankok about Quinn. Mankok says ok, he gets the start, both suck, but he sucked the least and we said a fair camp.
He starts........he sucks. Lerner cringes. He cringes when he watches Quinn throw down the field, he cringes when Quinn botches a pass against the Vikes he cringes at the slowness of Quinn's decisions. After the Bronco game, Mankok tells Lerner they want him benched, they don't want to pay him the 11 million for a QB that has major issues on offense which is being rebuilt from middle out. Lerner capitulates. He gives up. He says, fine, pull him whenever you wants. So Quinn is pulled. In comes Anderson. Anderson's first full game goes well, to the end when he struggles. Anderson hasn't played that well since. He is caught in the middle and unwanted, but he doesn't have 11 million dollars hanging over his head. He played like he wanted benched vs. the Packers and it showed. Yet, he is still forced out where he doesn't want to be. Used as a strawman.
We reach the present where Lerner is at. He sits firmly behind Mankok but he wants a saftey valve incase they don't progress next year and we are replaying this story again. When we talk about "Team Presidents" and such, this is what we mean. There are a lot of guys that can stand back at first and moniter Mankok's progression without getting in the way........if everything goes well. I have a good idea who that may be. It would be very very popular(no it isn't Bernie). I also suspect it has been thought of for awhile.
I suspect Lerner will have a list of stuff he wants to see Mankok to accomplish and Mankok will probably give a revised list of what they hope to accomplish. The QB situation is probably numero uno on Lerner's list. Find me some stability. Even if it is for a veteren to we find a longer term replacement, get me some QB stability.
Mangini and Kokinis are not getting fired people, though you may have fantasies of that. It would be a ugly message and even with the league's bashing of Mangini, it would not be well taken inside the coaches circle. It would also destroy Lerner in such a way, that even his ego couldn't take.
Instead, we must see a progression of improvement and some calming of the seas at QB. If not, then "Team President" takes over and off we go.
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Quote:
"The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. "
Which is exactly what I have been saying.
While Mangini certainly has his enemies in the press and acrossed the league---that won't mean squat if he puts together a winning team here in Cleveland.
He seemed to do pretty well in NY, and so far, though we haven't seen results on the field.
I still like the guys he has brought in and the type of players he wants.
I would really like to see the Veikune pick come to life next year. So many people are hammering him for this pick---but the if it works out--then Mangini will look real smart. The guys is cerebral, strong as hell, and has adequate speed for the position. Hopefully he starts to get it towards the end of the year.
Placing high-value on character through our first couple drafts will do us really well in the long run, and when the time comes--we will be able to pick up the frustrated ego-driven player and transition him seemlessly into our system.
I like what Mangini and co. have said about their plan. And I like the direction they are taking us personnel-wise.
Hopefully by years end we will start to see some results on the field. If not--thats fine with me too cuz we are SET-UP for a HUGE OFFSEASON!!!!
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Culture doesn't immediately imply extreme personnel change..Lerner knew there would be change but don't tell me he knew this was going to happened.
Maybe not, but who have we really sent away? Winslow and Edwards. How could you keep them AND change the culture?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Culture doesn't immediately imply extreme personnel change..Lerner knew there would be change but don't tell me he knew this was going to happened.
Maybe not, but who have we really sent away? Winslow and Edwards. How could you keep them AND change the culture?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
NRTU
So the team got torn down.
Now we have a younger team, a more cap friendly team and 11 draft picks that will prolly be relatively high in each round.
The question is: Do we trust Man/Kok to make the right decisions during free agency and the draft?
We are the 12th oldest team in the league.
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Dawg Talker
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Winning culture? The culture of this team right now is about not caring, frustration with a nazi coach, a team that consistenly quits during games, and team that has no trust in each other or thier coach, a culture where nobody is going to want to come play for this clown unless overpaid imensley. Everyone on the team, in the media, and in the stands knows that this team has absolutley no chance to win football games. And even during RAC's tenure, and Butchs tenure, there was never a stretch like this where a healthy football team was just torn apart every game, and wasn't competitive. So if part of the plan was to change the "culture" in year one, that failed, bigtime. This team has less heart and want to than any team since we've been back, there is no cohension whatsoever, and definently no fight in this team at all. The simple fact is we went from a bad team, to an awful team. Now people are spinning, Randy knows it, if this is what he expected, he wouldn't have hired Berine and he wouldn't be making public comments about brining in higher managment. There are lots of words that describe this teams current culture....and none of them are even remotely positive. I keep reading and hearing about discipline that EM is going to instill...I still see tons of dumb penalties, players out of position, players quiting all over, lack of effort, the funniest thing is that alot of his Jet players are doing all of the above....the guys brought in to "change the culture" and to "mentor". Of course, if you talk to EM, he thinks fining guys for a water bottle is discipline....great...how the hell does that translate to the field. I still see a team that is more undisciplined on the field than ever, and a culture that can't get any uglier.
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Winning culture---thats the end goal. Right now its about a disciplined, hard-working, do-your-job, team-first culture. As that culture emerges, it has shown that a winning culture will come with it. Quote:
I still see tons of dumb penalties
Dumb penalties have definitely gone down this year. The false-starts, not lined up on the LOS, and personal foul penalties have definitely improved.
You continue to naysay, when you should be getting your resume ready for Mr. Lerner.
According to many folks on the board---Mangini is not going to last----so now is your chance.
Sell him your plan.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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Legend
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FWIW --
2008: 100 penalties for 669 yards (6.69 yards per penalty, 18th in penalties, 14th in penalty yards)
2009 (through 7 games): 34 penalties for 313 yards (9.2 yards per penalty, 26th in penalties, 20th in penalty yards)
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Legend
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Legend
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Outside of a couple OLineman playing on bad teams...an Olineman playing on a good team (although even we manhandled him )...and 2 Linebackers that combined have about 10 tackles on the YEAR....there is no one in the 2nd round giving solid minutes to their teams(I'll even give you McCoy)
Louis Delmas: 31 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR, 1 TD
Patrick Chung: 17 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack
James Laurinaitis: 40 tackles, 2 INTs
Rey Maualuga: 30 tackles, 2 FF, 1 sack
Darius Butler: 5 tackles, 2 INTs
Jairus Byrd: 20 tackles, 5 INTs
Everette Brown: 5 tackles, 1 sack, 2 FF
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Mac - Time for Browns to Admit
Mistake with Mangini
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