DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The real reason Quinn sits while Anderson stinks it up???

Fans, Quinn lose as Browns stick with Anderson

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports


Another game, another round of snaps keeping Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn(notes) from earning $10.9 million in salary escalators. With every Derek Anderson(notes) start, fans can only hope the franchise is going to use some of the money it saves by refunding season tickets.

For every moment they keep Anderson as their starting quarterback after Sunday’s 31-3 loss to Green Bay, the Browns are stealing money from fans and trading losses for millions. Thanks to salary escalators in Quinn’s deal, he would stand to earn nearly an additional $11 million in salary in 2010 and 2011 if he plays at least 70 percent of the offensive snaps this season. But with each Anderson start, Quinn gets further and further from earning that money. By not earning that money, Cleveland keeps him on the cheap, while simultaneously avoiding hurting his trade value. The less money Quinn makes, the easier he is to deal away. Meanwhile, the tradeoff is sticking with Anderson and losing games in embarrassing fashion, but who’s really paying attention?

Of course, the Browns will scoff at the idea that they are sitting a player to avoid triggering a salary escalator, which is the typical reaction of every offending coach/general manager/owner. That trio historically shrugs and says it has a sound reason to sit a player – that it has nothing to do with money and is actually in the best interest of the team.

But how can the Browns realistically justify that argument at this point? How can they point to Anderson and say he’s the best shot this team has to win? He has been the worst NFL starter not named JaMarcus Russell(notes) this season. Forget theorizing whether Quinn would have helped the Browns win games. Just look at Anderson’s numbers. They are beyond awful. And don’t bother spewing nonsense about Anderson starting the 6-3 win over Buffalo. He went 2 for 17 for 23 yards and an interception in that game. Even mentioning him as part of that victory is a slap in the face of a defense and running game that won in spite of his shortcomings.

I’ll submit that when you break down their numbers this season, neither Anderson nor Quinn has been good. They’ve both turned the ball over too much, and they both struggled against good competition. But at the very least, Quinn’s 60.8 completion percentage has shown an ability to be accurate in the short game. And the last time I checked, that is better than Anderson’s ability to be inaccurate all the time. So forget Browns offensive coordinator Brian Daboll lauding Anderson’s preparation and saying he “has nowhere to go but up.” Just look at Anderson’s last three starts: He has posted passer ratings of 15.1, 51.0 and 36.4, and has completed 23 of 70 passes – a 32.8 completion rate. He also has one touchdown against five turnovers.

The numbers scream for change. The only thing screaming back is the additional $10.9 million Quinn could be due if the starting job were his. But sometimes losses in the checkbook weigh heavier than anything.

Oh brother...

Another stupid writer whose not having to write the 11 million dollar check finds a false premise to meet a deadline. The writer suggests that putting in Quinn will somehow change the inevitable, that we're going to lose games. We lost with Quinn already, he showed no sign of being able to win. All he has shown us was he isn't ready, hence the "deer in the headlights" look about him when he was in the pocket. If he's not going to equate to wins, what moron would want to write that check? Seriously where do they find these writers?

Then this brilliant deadline maker suggests we're not only keeping him on the bench to save the cash but to save his trade value. If Quinn had trade value he would have been gone before the last trading deadline. If anything history teaches us it's Mangini is all about future draft picks, with Anderson and his boy Ratliff and an already dead season, had there been trade value, Quinn would already be gone.

Now I've gone and done it, I've joined in on yet another QB thread. We need this like we need St. Clair on our O line...

What I find senselessly funny is, if the codicile is indeed 70% of the snaps, one could argue that you could wait until Game Ten, put Quinn in, and might STILL have to pay the $11 mil, the way this team does 3 and outs.

I think that when the Browns are really, really comfortable that the math cannot be overcome, then we will see Quinn again, if not Ratliff first.

Anderson made me fwow up yesterday at the stadium. Lerner is the King of Nothing Good at this point. Waiting for us to start the attacks blaming the victims (fanbase) for what ails them. And on the main board, I shut down in disgust, because the question was "Whose jersey is at the top of the gift list for holidays. That is right after not being able to buy a decent Elfis hat in the stadium store. All this retro crap that I have never seen growing up. Lame. Disconnected. Pitiful how much we just don't get it.

What amazes me is that fans even care about whether the Browns have to pay the escalators in Quinn's contract. It's not coming out of your pockets. We're at least $20 million under the cap now. What exactly are we saving the money for? A shiny new car for Randy?

Not to mention that if they don't sign a new deal (CBA) there will be no cap. Then holding Quinn back really makes no sense.

Anderson sucks. Everybody but a handful of his apologists knows this. We think Quinn might suck. But we're not really sure. Certainly not after 2.5 games. Play the kid. Find out if we need to go QB fishing next year or not. It only makes sense.

No point of paying $11M to watch a guy try to throw the ball 3 yards. Let 'em sit until that escalator isn't possible.

Then throw him to the wolves.

I think we made a mistake not throwing him to the wolves as soon as possible, ala Sanchez and Stafford,...

There is a one problem with sitting him till the escalators are unreachable.

If he does develop, he is not going to be happy and want to play for an organization that made him sit behind a QB that is performing as bad as DA is right now.

The other question is what consequences will this move have in the eyes of potential free agents?

it makes the organization look cheap, and will make every FA question whether we will allow them to reach clauses in their contract.

Good Lord, did we really need another BQ/DA thread or article? Just another worthless writer spouting the same old crap. Nothing new in the responses, either.

Thanks to salary escalators in Quinn’s deal, he would stand to earn nearly an additional $11 million in salary in 2010 and 2011 if he plays at least 70 percent of the offensive snaps this season. But with each Anderson start, Quinn gets further and further from earning that money. By not earning that money, Cleveland keeps him on the cheap, while simultaneously avoiding hurting his trade value. The less money Quinn makes, the easier he is to deal away. Meanwhile, the tradeoff is sticking with Anderson and losing games in embarrassing fashion, but who’s really paying attention?


I pay attention...and I said this very thing a month ago..it's the escalators..if Quinn wasn't due those they'd play him ..sure Toad will say well the offense needed someone to open it up..well whats happened since DA took over?
Hasn't gotten better..I told U guys many times DA has a low IQ and repeats the same mistakes..
Now I feel Quinn will get in sometime yet...but right now everyone gets to see and get DA SHOVED down their throat..

Just look at Anderson’s numbers. They are beyond awful

I need no numbers to tell me what my eyes see.. but there are some in here who still think he's the answer..

The numbers scream for change.

I'm screaming for a new QB next year.

I don't know folks,, But I'm having a hard time believing that 11 million dollars is standing in the way of Quinn playing. What's our owner worth,, something like 4 billion,, 11 million to him is like me dropping 11 bucks on the floor and lighting it with a match.. Meaningless.

I'm going with quinn ticked Mangini or Daboll off somehow.. or they just decided he sucks.. Pick your poison.. But I'm not buying into it being for 11 million bucks....

Yea you can bet that if he thought Quinn would help turn this team/fan pereption around he would be in there in a heartbeat. No way Lerner sacrifices a season for $11 million. He's not in there because he played horrible.

I think the 11 million has a lot to do with it.

Quinn is not Mangini's guy...Mangini wants to bring in his own QB next year

he will not commit 11 million to a guy not in his future plans

Quinn won't even be here next year, neither will Anderson..

$11,000,000 is a drop in the ocean compared to Lerner's billions BUT its not a drop in the ocean when compared to the salary cap.

I think of the expensive free agent additions that were made (Schaffer, Williams, Rogers, Stallworth) add in our almost annual top ten draft pick and I would guess that we are not sitting pretty? Can anyone shed any salary cap light on this?

Why take the chancec on Getting Brady hurt, he has more value (believe it or not) than DA and if he's hurt his trade value for this off season will only get worse, and we are gonna trade him on draft day, after we pick-up up Tebow or Bradford, but thats why we dont play Brady and both DA & Brady wear diffent uniforms next season,

It'a two sided coin Daman..Quinn wasn't playing well so they quickly pulled the trigger..even though Mangini said he could win with BQ..so why yank him?
Disappointed..doesn't feel BQ is a quality QB?

Sure I get he was totally ticked about the offense not clicking and made a hasty retreat in hopes of getting the offense going ..but something in my mind tells me he may think Quinn is not starter material and wanted to see it against the better defenses..

Dude says DA gives him the best chance to win..rrrrreally?
Have they gotten better?
Have they won?
They've looked pitiful..sure there are other factors at work..but looking solely at the QB's..is DA really good???

Seems there was a different standard to use on both..answer me why he said one thing and made a different decision
Why won't you put the guy in to see if he can come out of his funk??

Now look at it this way..since the guy was going to get 11mill..and played poorly why continue to let him collect money and look bad?

What better way to show he's in control and going with the cheaper produce until time passes and those escalators are not a factor?
Tell me why they couldn't ride him out and try to get the kid to go downfield and improve ?
Wouldn't U want to see Quinn under all conditions to see what he is??

QUESTION:

IF the reason and the only reason Quinn is sitting is the escalator clause then why did he start the season to begin with, AND, why is it outside the realm of possibility that the team couldn't sit down with Brady and hammer out a new deal BEFORE the escalators hit?

I can see the return on investment argument to a point, but like Daman said above, there is alot more here, and it ain't "he sucks" when you see how the starter is performing now.

Granted, Quinn was 3 yards dink and dunk but at least he completed them. Our guy now can't even complete passes.

IF the reason and the only reason Quinn is sitting is the escalator clause then why did he start the season to begin with, AND, why is it outside the realm of possibility that the team couldn't sit down with Brady and hammer out a new deal BEFORE the escalators hit?


He started because he won the job..and here's where I start to brainstorm...perhaps Gini doesn't /didn't feel he was a quality starter..since DA didn't light it up he had no choice but to go with Quinn..well trot him out against the better teams , watch him fail and yank him.
Instead of keeping him out there and fully being able to evaluate him .. isn't that whats usually done?

Since DA keeps going out there and struggling with no evidence things are going to change, I can only conclude that Mangini doesn't see any point in spending money on a failed QB just because DA sucks..

1. I laugh at the numbnuts who are under the bizarre impression that merely sitting DA and putting in BQ will result in wins or even better play. Maybe it *could*... AFTER some folks on the O-line, receiving corps, and secondary are replaced with actual, quality players. But then again, Anderson would look a whole lot better at that point, too.

2. Considering Quinns apparent (lack of) talent level, why the hell *would* the Browns want to throw away $11,000,000?

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I think the 11 million has a lot to do with it.

Quinn is not Mangini's guy...Mangini wants to bring in his own QB next year

he will not commit 11 million to a guy not in his future plans

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What I've come to realize is that we don't and probably won't ever know any real reasons for any decision made by the Browns. So many factors play into each decision from talent, future value, contract terms and dollars commmitted and let's not forget performance. (and probably a few more I haven't thought of as well)

But I'll say this, if Quinn wasn't a Mangini guy, why did he ever bother starting him? I mean, Mangini doesn't strike me as a coach that cares what the fans think, so I'm pretty sure he could care less about the PR Factor.. JMO however.

Now what I can see is that once it became clear to Mangini that Quinn wasn't the answer, he may have thought,, ok, let's pull him before he earns the escalators.. That I can see. I mean, if you decide he's not the guy, then yeah..

But I"m not entirely buying that either because it's not like money saved on the CAP this year is money in the bank that you can spend next season.. it's one of those, use it or loose it kinda things..

The only benefit to not spending that money is that it stays in the team coffers.... and as noted, I doubt that Lerner is exactly pinching pennies and losing sleep over the prospect of losing 11 million. Especially if there's a chance that the team wins with Quinn and the heat is removed from his shoulders so to speak.

As for Quinn and Anderson not being here next year, I'm betting you are right about that.

Quinn 60.8% 5.4YPA 0.4 TD/game 1.2 INT/game 4 sacks/game 0.8 Fumbles (0.8 lost)

Anderson 43.8% 4.4YPA 0.4 TD/game 1.6 INT/game 1.7 sacks/game 0.89 Fumbles (0.4 lost)

Ok, so here is what we know (so far from this season)

Quinn completes a higher percentage of passes for a higher YPA
Anderson gets sacked less often

They BOTH get around the same TDs and INTs per game (INTs are a bit higher from DA, but it's attributed to 2nd half of BALT game due to sample size).

They BOTH fumble the ball at the same rate (we have recovered more of Andersons though).

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I don't see how anyone (fans or media) can just attribute one thing to the reasoning behind who is playing QB. They have both been equally awful, so whoever they decide to trot out there should not matter.

Now, I would like to see Quinn against some of the weaker defenses we face later in the year, but that might just be to prop up his trade value this offseason.

J/C

Is it possible that Quinn is injured?

The reason i'm asking, and some of you Northeast Ohio dawgs would probably know, is that a guy i work with told me that a friend of his read in the Akron Beacon Journal that Quinn had a problem with his shoulder that was causing him not to be able to get zip on his passes and that the Browns and Quinn have not been able to figure out what the problem is. Hopefully one you dawgs can verify as to if that is true or not.

unless he read it in a comments section, it was never in any of the articles.

maybe ... just maybe .... The Browns brain trust realizes that the team sucks ..... and that the QB under Center will be reviled, hated, and abused ....... that he has no receivers to throw to .... and that it's a no win situation .....

So they feel that Anderson is better suited to handle that kind of situation given the fan reaction to him already.

I mean ... what is Quinn going to do better than Anderson at this pointm with this team? Would it make a difference in wins and losses .... or even in "style" points? Probably not. Maybe Mangini doesn;t want to destroy Quinn this year ..... and thinks that Anderson can withstand the damage that playing QB for this team is sure to bring. They also might feel that they are going to get rid of Anderson next season anyway ... so let him take the beating this year ... and give Quinn a clean start next year when some of the massive fissures (they aren't just holes anymore) are filled.

Just another possibility, because I don't see the Browns paying Anderson the $7 million salary plus $2 million roster bonus next year.

Thanks, Wasn't sure if it was true or not especially given Mangini's policy of keeping injuries secret.

I'll try.

At this point, the Browns have six big contracts: DA, Jamal, JT, Steinbach, Williams and Rogers.

DA could be cut and it would help us cap wise. Same with Jamal. We'd suffer a significant hit with the others and it wouldn't be worth it. Braylon's cap hit shouldn't be too big as he was entering his final year, and Winslow's should have been zero. It's hard to say without actually seeing the contracts, but we should be sitting pretty well, IF there is a cap next year.

Just clicking

This is a dumb article. The owner knows when you don't win, you won't keep great players here. He is prepping to lose JT when he comes up..... I mean, why would an owner sit a QB who could win games because of $$$? Win games, get better players, keep good players..... kinda simple. I feel bad for the fans because no one will want to stay here in this organization and have this outcome. Hank is thankful he was in Philly for 6 years and have the experience to play for a great franchise and win games, go to play offs and play in the super bowl. I know he feels bad for the young guys that know nothing else........

Edwards won't matter one way or the other cap wise. His deal comes off the books entirely this year.

I am unsure about Winslow ... but I believe he had a couple of years left. His remaining unallocated sigbing bonus would split between this year and next based on the date he was traded. (IIRC)

Anderson should save about $9 million as he is entering the final year of his deal .... assuming he is cut or dealt prior to the date his bonus is payable.

If you are JT would you stay here? Heck no, I would RUN away at the end of his contract. I would take less $$ and go to a winning team. I don't think he will have to take less $$ but seriously....... I feel bad for him!

Well I'm biased, but I would stay here. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't though. I pray that the Browns turn around before then so we don't lose the one thing we have going for us.

i was thinking yesterday that green bay could be a destination for him...

i really hope we show good signs and are able to keep him.

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Is it possible that Quinn is injured?

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Haven't seen or read or heard anything like that. I suspect he's physically just fine.

I can't remember a franchise left tackle like thomas ever hitting the market. Pace, never did, nor walter jones, or even ogden. The chances of us losing thomas would be slim to none. we would franchise him like the rams did to pace.