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This is the absoulute very worst offense in the NFL. And to me it all starts with Brian Daboll.
Can anyone explain to me how Man-Genius rationalized that this goof was the best man for the OC job?
Prior to coming to the Erie Shores,he no experiance as a OC.
He's been a positions coach at best.
Every game he has been out coached,out schemed,out thought,etc.
I can't believe he hasn't been held more accountable on this board.
If anything,it looks like Daboll has been given a free ride.
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i hope he if fired myself.
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Tell you what I'm happy about. I'm happy that Kosar has a role with the team. If he sees it as you do (and I think it's a real possibility), I'm confident he'll speak up. That will either spell the end of Daboll, or whatever problem he's having..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Who takes over for him?
I say we hire Sherm Lewis as an offensive consultant.
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I see Kosar as having a more vocal role in the on-field stuff than Jim Brown seems to take on.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Quote:
I see Kosar as having a more vocal role in the on-field stuff than Jim Brown seems to take on.
Same, hell I see Bernie hiring the next coach, if it has to come to that.
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Can't keep switching OC's.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Because he has so much to work with and has screwed up our All Pro talent .......?
Because it must be a piece of cake calling plays on a team with no receivers .... and a paper mache defense?
Marty Schottemheimer once said "Play calling is overrated" .... and he was right. Romeo Crennel was asked is a play call was a good one, and he answered soimething like "It worked, so it was good".
Successful plays make the play caller look a whole lot better. Good players help make plays successful. Face it ... no one in the NFL is reinventing the wheel at this point. Even the new flavor of the day (Wildcat) is basically an option style offense.
Players are more important than lay calls. Now, if we had a guy who was being limited by the play calling ... or somehow the offense wasn't being yailored to a franchise player's strengths .. then there might be an argument. However ... the OC doesn't make receivers get off the line, nor does he make them get open. He doesn't make TEs get healthy and suddenly start catching the ball. He doesn't make the OL capable of effective pass blocking without routinely keeping in an extra blocker.
Players matter more than the play called in almost every case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Because he has so much to work with and has screwed up our All Pro talent .......?
Because it must be a piece of cake calling plays on a team with no receivers .... and a paper mache defense?
Marty Schottemheimer once said "Play calling is overrated" .... and he was right. Romeo Crennel was asked is a play call was a good one, and he answered soimething like "It worked, so it was good".
Successful plays make the play caller look a whole lot better. Good players help make plays successful. Face it ... no one in the NFL is reinventing the wheel at this point. Even the new flavor of the day (Wildcat) is basically an option style offense.
Players are more important than lay calls. Now, if we had a guy who was being limited by the play calling ... or somehow the offense wasn't being yailored to a franchise player's strengths .. then there might be an argument. However ... the OC doesn't make receivers get off the line, nor does he make them get open. He doesn't make TEs get healthy and suddenly start catching the ball. He doesn't make the OL capable of effective pass blocking without routinely keeping in an extra blocker.
Players matter more than the play called in almost every case.
I agree with you that playcalling isnt that important but when you are calling the same plays that don't work over and over again, it's bad.. it's like saying.. it will work 1 out of 100 times... and we are waiting for that 1 time for it to work..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Quote:
Because he has so much to work with and has screwed up our All Pro talent .......?
Because it must be a piece of cake calling plays on a team with no receivers .... and a paper mache defense?
Marty Schottemheimer once said "Play calling is overrated" .... and he was right. Romeo Crennel was asked is a play call was a good one, and he answered soimething like "It worked, so it was good".
Successful plays make the play caller look a whole lot better. Good players help make plays successful. Face it ... no one in the NFL is reinventing the wheel at this point. Even the new flavor of the day (Wildcat) is basically an option style offense.
Players are more important than lay calls. Now, if we had a guy who was being limited by the play calling ... or somehow the offense wasn't being yailored to a franchise player's strengths .. then there might be an argument. However ... the OC doesn't make receivers get off the line, nor does he make them get open. He doesn't make TEs get healthy and suddenly start catching the ball. He doesn't make the OL capable of effective pass blocking without routinely keeping in an extra blocker.
Players matter more than the play called in almost every case.
This was the beginning of the end of our franchise. Modell interferred, disagreeing with Marty, and the Schott got fired. In comes Bud Carson,..and the rest is history.
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Which plays?
People say stuff like that .... but I haven;t seen too much actually work this year.
I can fault Daboll for running the Wildcat down on the goalline. I thought that was not an appropriate time for thet.
Other than that .... sometimes it's hard to kow what was called because receivers are jammed up at the line ... or we have had to keep the extra TE (or G) in to block .....
The strength of this offense is the C LG LT. That's where I'd run if I were running the ball. The TEs we have now are absolute non factors. Our WRs can't beat press coverage. What plays work in that case? Once Edwards was traded, we lost the only guy capable of drawing double coverage ..... and the only guy big, strong, and fast enough to consistently beat press coverage.
This team has no difference makers, It has no one that other teams have to worry about .. or try to take away. What do you call when you have no one you can rely on as a bread and butter type guy? You have 2 rookies at WR .. along with a guy who was traded here a couple of weeks ago. At TE ... well ... I'm not even sure what the hell we have there. How much is the offense scaled back as a result? What can, or can you not do in a position like that?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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edit for link: nfl.com gamebook pdfQuote:
2-17-CLV 33 (14:13) J.Lewis right guard to CLV 33 for no gain (C.Jenkins).
c'mon, man.
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2-1-CLV 40 (5:46) D.Anderson up the middle to CLV 43 for 3 yards (A.Hawk).
sneak. 
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3-15-CLV 32 (9:49) (Shotgun) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 36 for 4 yards (J.Jolly, B.Chillar).
i would rather see a deep interception here than this play, unless we were playing against our own defense.
after the half, GB now 24-3. and we see....
Quote:
1-10-CLV 45 (10:23) J.Lewis right guard to CLV 49 for 4 yards (N.Barnett).
2-6-CLV 49 (9:53) J.Lewis left guard to GB 47 for 4 yards (J.Jolly).
3-2-GB 47 (9:06) D.Anderson pass short right to J.Cribbs to GB 44 for 3 yards (C.Woodson). FUMBLES
(C.Woodson), RECOVERED by GB-B.Chillar at GB 48. B.Chillar to GB 48 for no gain (A.Mack).
Cleveland challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 08:56.)
this would be a good series getting started, except we are burning up a ton of time. there is zero urgency here. i did like the cribbs drag route, but DA was staring downfield, left, i think till it was too late, and of course he made a bad throw anyways. daboll should have had his play options ready and the team should have been ready to snap the ball earlier.
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3-3-GB 3 (15:00) (Shotgun) J.Lewis right guard to GB 1 for 2 yards (A.Bigby).
ugh. at least try to score.
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2-10-CLV 40 (9:38) J.Lewis left tackle to CLV 45 for 5 yards (N.Barnett, A.Bigby).
daboll: I GIVE UP!!
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2-10-GB 45 (7:09) J.Lewis left guard to GB 44 for 1 yard (N.Barnett, N.Collins).
daboll: SERIOUSLY I GIVE!!
i do see a little improvement from the herky-jerky incoherent calls in the first several games, but the guy isn't putting the players in a position to win the game. IMO that is the purpose of the coordinator.
Last edited by hooter; 10/26/09 05:39 PM.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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What is a good play on 2nd and 17?
The 2nd play you mention resulted in a 1st down.
3rd and 15 .... with receivers not getting release off the line ..... what do you call? Really? The odds of converting 3rd and 15 against any defense other than ours has to be pretty long adds. I would guess that it's less than 20% that get converted .... and I would almost bet that more end in a loss of yardage or a turnover. There really is no "good" 3rd and 15 play.
Now ... after the half when you've done nothing ..... you probably try and establish something. Anything. I mean .. when your team is not performing at all ..... whatever works to gain positive plays might be considered a good call.
This is the major difference .....
3-1-CLE45 (12:22) A.Rodgers pass short right to S.Havner for 45 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-GB29 (7:12) A.Rodgers pass short left to D.Driver for 71 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Green Bay had numerous such plays .... that were just blown coverages by our defense. Look at how many plays were "thrown short" .....
Let's say the Browns tackle on those plays instead of allowing 15 ... 18 .. 19 ... 45 ... 71 yards ....... and the Packers lose the game. Would their OC then have called a bad game?
Sometimes you just have to play the cards you're dealt .... and hope for the best. With 2 rookie WR, I'm sure that the entire offensive package isn't available. Hell ... they can't get the basics right yet.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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D-shot, I agree! I used to be an offense oriented coach. Kosar is creepy smart seeing what is there. I want him to replace the OC at least in part; if it improves, expand his duties. Not sure if he is willing to be hip deep in it. Getting tough to stay interested in the loonatic asylum.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I just also wanted to add ......
Chud called plays in 2007 and was a genius. Fans were even touting him as the next head coach when Romeo retired or was moved out.
2008 was a debacle, and he was let go along with the rest of Crennel's staff.
Did he call plays differently, or was he lacking an efefctive slot receiver? Did he have Dante Stallworth available for a couple of games .... only to watch him be almost comoletely ineffective? What was the major difference? Playmakers at WR. Cedric Freakin Steptoe was starting opposite Edwards. That shows how far down the receiver black hole we had dropped. Could that have made a difference?
Nope .... must have been the play calls.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What was worse?
The Arians play call of the Northcutt reverse at the goal line vs the Steelers.
The Daboll play call of the Anderson QB sneak on 2nd and 1 at midfield.
....
And has anyone seen Kosar today? I figured when that happened his head would have exploded. Just making sure he's in the land of the living today.
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It must be easy running a first year offense when the right side of your O-line is abysmal, your starting tight end is a backup AT BEST, your best wide receiver is a rookie 2nd rounder who has a case of the dropsies, you have the worst quarterback play in the league and your starting tailback is over the hill and into the ditch.
Add to that we've played the Vikings, Broncos, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, and Packers in 6 of our first 7 games, that's nuts.
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comparing Brain Daboll and Rob Chudzinski is not fair, infact that is an "insult" to Chud. Chud was one of only two good OC to be here since 94..the other being Bruce Arians.... Chud was actually "creative"...for exmaple we haven't used the "unbalanced" line since Chud left here...its very hard to stop the run as a defense against an unbalanced line, furthermore, Chud also "threw" out of the unbalanced line. the only other team to run the unbalanced line now is The Ravens with Cam Cameron (Chud learned this from Cameron in their days together in San Diego under Marty) our offense is way to predictable...Chud often threw out of running formations and ran out of passing formations, along with with the run in run formation and pass in pass formation Chud mixed it up, i can honestly say when Chud was OC I was NEVER 100% sure it was going to be a run or a pass unless it was like 3 and 8+ as for 2008, Chud suffered from a banged up OL, an injured Jamal Lewis, an injured Braylon Edwards, and injured Stallworth, and a QB coming off a concussion the ONE GAME we had all our starters healthy, Chud offense picked right up where it left off in 2007 torching the Giants on Prime Time Chud should have been kept on here....Chud was a bonafide OC I can almost always predict waht Daboll is going to do..if I can, so can the Defense Chud mixed in passing out of running formations and running out of passing formations, and mixed in a very nice unbalanced line rushing attack....Daboll is a joke Mangini's leash with me is short, im neutral right now, but if I see one more game like last week, i may be calling for his head too....I don't want to get to that point, but when you allow your OC to call a QB sneak on 1st and 10 in the 2nd quarter....something is seriously wrong with that picture..... to that alone, to compare Daboll to Chud is an insult to Rob Chudzinski....be nice to Chud
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And since Daboll has been here he's had 2 QBs ...... a banged up and/or ineffective right side of the OL ..... no real receiving threat at TE ...... and 1 legitimate WR. (who now plays in New York)
So what's the difference? A lack of talent is not disguised for very long even if the play calling is extremely creative.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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we have had a new OC every year since we've been to the league. bad players make OC's look bad. look how Ariens looks at PGH. Can't keep switching OC's. Have to stick with Daboll for 3 years at least. What's the one thing we have not had since we have came back into the league? NO CHANGE FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR. Every year we change something and every year we suck. Lets go into next year with the same coaching staff and players, only with the addition of draft picks. I bet they play better having that year of togetherness under their belts
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Quote:
Who takes over for him?
I say we hire Sherm Lewis as an offensive consultant.
because that is working for the Redskins so well, right?
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Quote:
Quote:
Who takes over for him?
I say we hire Sherm Lewis as an offensive consultant.
because that is working for the Redskins so well, right?
but, the Bills, Bucs, Chiefs and now Redskins offenses are doing so well now that they have fired their first co-ordinator and moved onto a second one.
they (along with us and Detroit when Calivin and Stafford are out like right now) are the worst offenses in the NFL......switching OC's at this point isn't gonig to make that any better
(and I was worried about Daboll from the start just like everyone else....mangini's fault for putting him in that position as a 1st time OC).
Edit: wanted to make it clear that "after" the year is a completely different topic.....at that point, Daboll is likely the fall-guy for this year.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 10/27/09 09:07 AM.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
This was the beginning of the end of our franchise. Modell interferred, disagreeing with Marty, and the Schott got fired. In comes Bud Carson,..and the rest is history.
It goes back a bit further than that, my friend.
What fool in his right mind fires Paul Brown- the most innovative, intellectually advanced coach in the history of professional football?
If ever there was a "Browns curse," it would be Art Modell. The curse on this team (if there ever was one) won't be lifted until that.... person is a-moulderin' 6 feet below the rest of us.
"I believe, as my friends all know well-
There exists both a Heaven and Hell.
And I'm sure there's a spot
In 'that place that is hot'
That's reserved for that ***hole Modell."
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Quote:
Players matter more than the play called in almost every case.
As coach Sam says, "You've never seen the jockey carry the horse over the finish line".
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I can't believe he hasn't been held more accountable on this board.
If anything,it looks like Daboll has been given a free ride.
Excuse me but i have been saying since the first game he has no idea what he was doing.
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Quote:
Quote:
I can't believe he hasn't been held more accountable on this board.
If anything,it looks like Daboll has been given a free ride.
Excuse me but i have been saying since the first game he has no idea what he was doing.
not to mention that from day1 even the most positive posters have questioned having an OC with no prior OC experience.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I just also wanted to add ......
Chud called plays in 2007 and was a genius. Fans were even touting him as the next head coach when Romeo retired or was moved out.
2008 was a debacle, and he was let go along with the rest of Crennel's staff.
Did he call plays differently, or was he lacking an efefctive slot receiver? Did he have Dante Stallworth available for a couple of games .... only to watch him be almost comoletely ineffective? What was the major difference? Playmakers at WR. Cedric Freakin Steptoe was starting opposite Edwards. That shows how far down the receiver black hole we had dropped. Could that have made a difference?
Nope .... must have been the play calls.
i hear you, but Chud's play calling changed too-become so much more predictable. Up the middle on 1st down up the middle on second down....And that was the end of him.
i know some will say (partially rightfully) it was b/c Chud was new and no one knew what he would call so he could have initial success-but shouldn't that hold true for Daboll too? Nobody even knew his name!
Face it - Daboll is an abysmal failure. Cut him loose now.
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
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i heard this earlier today and I'm gonna steal it.  Players make plays ......... Plays don't make players.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My cousin told me this one: It's not always the Xs and the Os, but the Jimmy's and the Joe's. 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I would rather have Chud back.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Either Bruce Arians, Terry Robiskie, Maurice Carthon, Jeff Davidson, Rob Chudzinski, and Brian Daboll all didn't have a clue, or we've just had generally bad players for a long time.
That and no reputable offensive coach is going to want to come here. That would be tantamount to career suicide. For example, take Cam Cameron. Yeah, he flopped in Miami as a head coach but he was awesome in San Diego and is doing well in Baltimore now with Flacco. A guy like that would never come here... similar to head coaches. So we're going to be stuck with first time coordinators or guys that just generally suck.
Let him build some continuity, and if the offense doesn't improve in year 2 or year 3 of his system, with better players, THEN make a change. The guy took over the worst offense in the league, and that was before K2 and Braylon were dealt.
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Quote:
Either Bruce Arians, Terry Robiskie, Maurice Carthon, Jeff Davidson, Rob Chudzinski, and Brian Daboll all didn't have a clue, or we've just had generally bad players for a long time.
I agree with what you are saying, expect Maurice Carthon was plan old bad.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lets hope Daboll is fired after
this year.
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