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My take is simular to Attack's. I think that we do not want to pay a guy 11 million dollars who we aren't convinced is going to be an answer at QB. Quinn had the chance to earn the money if he keeps his job, but he played like crap, and sowed serious doubt in the FOs minds as to his viability. They don't want to pay him 11 million when they can let DA go out there and suck it up with no real cap implications at the end of the year when they cut him.
Exacly...but the question still remains unanswered..what's up with him?
If we don't see him on the field again I will only conclude Mangini has decided BQ is not good enough...
For me I know what DA is..and he's not starter material ..but I see Mangini has once again changed his words..first it was DA gives us the best chance to win right now..now it's DA gives us the best chance to move the ball..
We certainly don't score when we're inside the 5 because DA finds a way to throw a pick/incomplete.
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We certainly don't score when we're inside the 5 because DA finds a way to throw a pick/incomplete.
Yes...that happens sometimes.
But DA has also connected with Heiden on a td inside the 5. He connected with Vickers inside the 5, and he also ran one in from inside the 5.
Right now our offense is struggling to find another consistent receiving threat with Braylon in NY and Heiden fighting injuries. But we realy don't have a legit threat---we have a gadget guy, two rookies, a jet suited for the slot, and Furrey---not too mention two FA TE's.
Our offense is going to continue to struggle and the QB is totally inconsequential. Put in whoever you want, its not going to get a whole lot better.
I think Mangini is right to stick with DA, cuz I feel that with what we got--he is our best option.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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 U just don't quit dispite the obvious ...keep being in denial..when this season is over, things will change..
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You're entitled to your opinion, and BQ didn't really set the world on fire when he was in.
And while DA has lead us to some scores, I think he has really left a lot out there. This past game, we were so close twice. Was it all DA's fault that we didn't get in the endzone? No. But he sure didn't help us.
When he tried to force that one into Furrey, Harrison was so wide open that he could have moonwalked into the endzone. And, he was close enough that DA should have seen him.
But DA locked onto Furrey, threw it where it had to be a ridiculously perfect pass and hope that the defenders who were there didn't get their hands on it.
It was one pass, but I think that just shows DA's body of work.
DA is going to make some amazing throws. He's going to lead us on TD drives (see the opening drive in the second half against Pittsburgh).
But, just as often as that, he's going to miss wide open receivers and make throws that leave you scratching your head at best and pulling out your hair at worst. He's going to mis-throw crossing routes and touch passes, thereby limiting the YACs.
Watching the Eagles/Redskins game last night, as much as Jason Campbell struggled, he threw some short passes that were just plain right on the money. The guy never broke stride and was immediately able to turn his head upfield and get extra yards. And McNabb, we know what he can do.
I'm not saying BQ is the answer. But I just don't think DA is, either. DA has played pretty much the same way since 2007, IMO. BQ just hasn't had the time in there. Throw him in there and see, if for no other reason than it will show us what we have to do in the offseason.
If DA plays out this season and keeps struggling, at the end of the year, we're going to say "well, we know DA isn't the guy...but is Quinn? Maybe?" And then we haven't really solved much.
I'm just puzzled why RAC and now Mangini just don't want Quinn in there.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I'm just puzzled why RAC and now Mangini just don't want Quinn in there.
Its cuz he can't make all the throws.
Its well documented how to stop BQ. I believe RAC and Mangini saw this weakness. He was well scouted in the draft---and was on a freefall until we made the POOR decision to gamble our 1st pick away for this kid.
We get him and he can't make the throws that an NFL baller has to make. He went from pro-ready to needs a few games, to lets throw him out there and see if he can figure it out.
Its not about figuring it out---its about what you can and can't physically do.
Mangini saw this and pulled him before it got any worse.
Right now we need our receivers to grow leaps and bounds if this offense is going to get any better by years end.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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You're entitled to your opinion
Be nice if it was a educated opinion not the "DA rah rah zees boom bah" one he has..
When he tried to force that one into Furrey, Harrison was so wide open that he could have moonwalked into the endzone. And, he was close enough that DA should have seen him.
Same play against the Bengals when he locked onto Heiden..
He's going to lead us on TD drives
We just won't score..how many times including this past Sunday have we been inside the 10 and came away with nothing???
But, just as often as that, he's going to miss wide open receivers and make throws that leave you scratching your head at best and pulling out your hair at worst. He's going to mis-throw crossing routes and touch passes, thereby limiting the YACs.
Do you see I keep saying he has a low IQ?
Bad instincts..It's what keeps him from getting better...
Can anyone dispell that????
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/27/09 10:20 AM.
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But DA has also connected with Heiden on a td inside the 5. He connected with Vickers inside the 5, and he also ran one in from inside the 5.
We are 7 games into the season,,, and you can point to ONLY 3 TDs in support of your argument.. What's that tell you?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Same play against the Vikes(?) when he locked onto Heiden..
DA didn't play against the Vikes......but you do know what you are talking about? right???
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He's going to lead us on TD drives
We just won't score..
As I pointed out above---we have scored Td's---good, relevant td's when DA has been in the game. We didn't against the Pack---but in games previous DA has scored us points.
BQ isn't gonna start another game this year----get used to it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Its cuz he can't make all the throws.
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Its well documented how to stop BQ.
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Its not about figuring it out---its about what you can and can't physically do.
Jamarcus Russell anyone?
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Mangini saw this and pulled him before it got any worse.
Really?
We went from a QB with a rating of 62.9 (Quinn) to 40.6 (Anderson), a clear and present upgrade.
Are you just that crazy or do you have mental disabilities?
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That is laughable..U are so predictable..I cleaned my mistake up..and I do make mistakes.. I listed the wrong team..so what?
I don't make silly mistakes analizing players when the evidence is sitting smack dead in my face.....
I don't hype a player that is below average..or in this case DEAD LAST ...
The only thing U can do is rag on Quinn..because there's nothing better on the roster..but you can keep banging on him for a few more weeks while he sits and your boy continues to play like manure..
..
When DA is replaced..lets see your tune change...oh wait you'll probably still want him no matter who's brought in..
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J/C
can we all just quit bickering over a QB. Tyler, Attack, etc
I at one time was a Da supporter, I still hope he works out BUT
neither one of them should be here next year...ship them both out of here..neither Quinn nor Anderson will have a chance to show anything on this garbage roster.
just get them both out of here at the end of the year so this useless bickering can just stop
this kinda bickering is like a "cancer" it divides the fans base and weakens the team and the fans
this nonsense has just got to stop...NEITHER QB is the answer...the writing is on the wall, they are both out of here at the end of the year.
The season is tanked, why pay Quinn 11 million in a tanked season...
were gonna have new Qb next year...can we please stop this useless bickering...
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Go ahead and stick with Anderson, Idiot!!!. Wait til the Oakland and Jaguars game and they are blacked out. You can't tell me that with Anderson having the WORSE quarterback rating in the NFL, that Quinn is not better?!!! Learner ought to have a meeting with the entire coaching staff and fire the whole freakin bunch. un.freakin.believable 
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The season is tanked, why pay Quinn 11 million in a tanked season...
I agree about the season being punted. When you trade away 2 of the 3 playmakers you have on the team (Cribbs is the lone playmaker left on this team), you KNOW the season is going to be one long tryout for "next year."
I disagree where BQ is concerned, however. I'm so sick and tired of watching DA suck game-after-game that I'm ready to see if BQ will relax and just play some football now that the weight of a new season won't be there. The $11 million shouldn't even be a factor right now. Stick him in there and see what happens. It can't be any worse than we've seen with DA since he took over. If BQ continues to stink it up, you can still pull him before the escalators kick in.
I've seen the "DA Movie" enough for now. Let's put "Dink-and-Dunk" in the DVD player for a few weeks and see if BQ can get hot. At least if the movie still stinks, it will be something different. As has been said, we're not going anywhere this year. However, at least change things up once in a while to see if a spark can be generated SOMEWHERE along the way.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Why not just rotate both QB's into the gameplan? I've never been an advocate of that but at this point how can it hurt. We might as well have both QB's auditioning for next season, BQ's value is already rock bottom,..the season is lost and if anything, it gives us at least 2 options at QB and allows the possibility of a light finally igniting in one of these guys.
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There is no possible way that DA can be our best option right now. When a guy puts up a QB rating that is slightly better than if he just spiked the ball on every play, it's time for him to hit the bench. When Aaron Rodgers throws for more yardage in 3 quarters than your guy has in 3 games, it's time for him to hit the bench.
The bottom line is that Mangini saw enough in Quinn to start him to enter the season. Even if he didn't like what he saw from Brady enough to bench him, there's no way in hell that he's seen enough from DA to justify playing him any more. Either Mangini is a moron for starting someone who has no business in the NFL after a "battle" for the job, or he's a moron for keeping a guy who does have business in the NFL on the bench while a guy with an unfathomably bad QB rating keeps playing. No matter how you slice it, he's an idiot.
I don't care how bad he thinks the other QBs on our roster are, DA is being historically bad right now. They CANNOT do any worse.
We're... we're good?
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Same play against the Vikes(?) when he locked onto Heiden..
DA didn't play against the Vikes......but you do know what you are talking about? right???
But he did against the Bengals where Heiden got his TD, but you probably knew that, but bashing is more fun than correcting. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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All Pro
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There is no possible way that DA can be our best option right now. When a guy puts up a QB rating that is slightly better than if he just spiked the ball on every play, it's time for him to hit the bench. When Aaron Rodgers throws for more yardage in 3 quarters than your guy has in 3 games, it's time for him to hit the bench.
The bottom line is that Mangini saw enough in Quinn to start him to enter the season. Even if he didn't like what he saw from Brady enough to bench him, there's no way in hell that he's seen enough from DA to justify playing him any more. Either Mangini is a moron for starting someone who has no business in the NFL after a "battle" for the job, or he's a moron for keeping a guy who does have business in the NFL on the bench while a guy with an unfathomably bad QB rating keeps playing. No matter how you slice it, he's an idiot.
I don't care how bad he thinks the other QBs on our roster are, DA is being historically bad right now. They CANNOT do any worse.
They can do MUCH worse. He hasn't lost the team, yet. Even if some of the vets are probably becoming discouraged he hasn't lost it yet. If DA is our best option then it shows just how bad our QB situation was from the beginning. I don't expect BQ or DA to be on the team next year.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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This is the 2nd head coach reluctant to play Quinn.
No matter any faults in Romeo or Eric, I do think they can identify a player what they see one.
Not that I want to appear to be sticking up for Quinn because I'm not but you do realize this is the same Eric that brought us Pork Chump, St. Clair and Royal. I'm just not at all sure I trust his evaluation of talent at this point.
That is a fair comment. At that point, there wasn't much else to bring in.
It isn't like Mangini had first hand knowledge of who we had on the roster and who could and couldn't play.
This year is a different deal. Mangini knows at this point...we will see if it gets better or stays the same.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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i think, what's frustrating about the responses to the article i posted is what people choose to respond to.
the positive i was hoping others would see is 1) DA really cares about succeeding for cleveland and 2) the fact he is a true leader is showing up. this article is not the first time to reference that.
i think it really goes to show that there are times when people will hate the individual so personally for no real reason. if DA were like normal DA and jjoked around, people would hone in on that and say he doesn't care, that he's too much of a goof, and would not make a terrible leader.
instead, we read that our coaching staff considers him a great leader, he works hard, stays late preparing, talks to his receivers, takes the blame for all the wrongs (even with the wr's saying it's not fair and that the blame needs to be spread out)...and everyone still hates the guy. honestly, i just don't get it. i understand there's a letdown with a poor performance and a loss but man it's just a game. mangini clearly believes he's the best available on this team and from past performances, i wouldn't even question that.
this isn't a post FOR DA or AGAINST quinn, just a general observation on how our fanbase reads what they want to read and hates who they want to hate. logically or not.
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this isn't a post FOR DA or AGAINST quinn
Yes it was. Please stop pretending you are somehow unbiased regarding this subject. It's laughable. Nobody is buying your bull. The guy you like is playing like poo, quit acting like posting some touchy-feely stories about him is going to change that and we are all going to fawn over him.
I no longer care who the QB is on this team. This team is a wreck from top to bottom and I have yet to see any significant improvement. Who the QB is at this point is barely relevant.
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But Jules..DA is a leader..a leader...a leader...keep saying it about 10,000times..it might penetrate your mind as U sleep.. 
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this isn't a post FOR DA or AGAINST quinn
Yes it was. Please stop pretending you are somehow unbiased regarding this subject. It's laughable. Nobody is buying your bull. The guy you like is playing like poo, quit acting like posting some touchy-feely stories about him is going to change that and we are all going to fawn over him.
why is it that you only show up to talk about the person who posts, not about the subject at hand?
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I talked about it. You just get ticked because I call you out on your obvious crap. Why is it that you can't tell the truth? 
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But Jules..DA is a leader..a leader...a leader...keep saying it about 10,000times..it might penetrate your mind as U sleep..
Yes, he's a legend in some posters' minds. 
Like I said, there are a multitude of problems here, DA is just one of them, and some people are just SO convinced that it's HATE. Too funny.
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the positive i was hoping others would see is 1) DA really cares about succeeding for cleveland and 2) the fact he is a true leader is showing up. this article is not the first time to reference that.
Every player, in every city, on every NFL team wants to succeed, nobody goes to practice and on gameday not wanting to succeed.
A leader is someone that people follow because they respect or look up to them, or follow them because they are headed in a good direction. Derek isn't anymore a leader than the next guy. He doesnt do anything worth following, he doesnt show be example, and he doesnt back anything up with play.
Your just making stupid stuff up, instead of trying to make things up....why not just state your a big fan of DA and even tho he's horrible, you still support him, Rather than running around pretending to be objective.
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the same article showed how edwards didn't care and couldn't wait to leave.
somehow, the players are folliowing DA and not quinn when all the posters here were convinced, at one point, it would be the other way around.
unlike you, i didn't make anything up. those two points were from the article as well as countless other press releases i read and highlighted on this forum. i support DA because he's a brown and our starting qb. if quinn were in, i'd support him too. if ratliff were in, i'd support him too. somehow, others don't think they need to do the same. fine by me.
i don't need to defend my objectivity. it will speak for itself, in the end. just ebcause i don't share the popular viewpoints doesn't mean i'm not objective.
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Mangini also stressed that not using Brady Quinn has nothing to do with keeping him from getting 70 percent of the plays, which would trigger $10.9 million in contract escalators.
"Nothing,'' said Mangini. "Zero.''
Am I the only person who found this hilarious? I mean come on, you have to call BS on that and I haven't seen anyone point it out. Were we all just assuming? Either way, what a big, fat liar
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Where is your objectivity towards the 40 passer rating? DA could be the greatest team leader in the world, but it doesn't mean he can play QB at the NFL level (hell, he wasn't even good in college). The numbers don't lie, DA simply is the worst starter currently in the NFL and a good game or two a season is not going to change anything.
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They are sticking with DA b/c they feel he is their best option. Has nothing to do with the money.
I think DA is our best option too. He isn't the greatest QB in the NFL---but with a team around him he can play well enough to hold down teh QB position.
I don't get the whole conspiracy theory thing with regard to BQ.
I mean he got the start---he was gonna get those snaps if he could hold down the position.
But after 2.5 weeks Mangini pulled the plug on what he saw as futility. And so he switched to DA.
DA came out in Cincy and played well. His play has since tailed off.
Mangini has stuck with DA though. He hasn't switched back, and that is because he feels DA gives this team the best chance on the field. Exactly what he said.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Did you type this with a straight face? DA has the worst passer rating in the NFL. The worst. As bad as Quinn was, DA is far worse. He cannot complete passes because he is so inaccurate and has not touch. And no, he would not be a decent QB with a team around him. He would be below average just like he was in 2007.
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If you think them not wanting to pay about $19 million for bad QB play either way when they could just pay $8 million may have NOTHING to do with it, or at the very least is somewhere in their minds, then you are crazy.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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j/c
I think that if Mangini is not playing Quinn because of the escalators in his contract that Mangini should be fired immediately.
I will say that I don't think the contract situation enters into Mangini's mind because, hey, it ain't his money if Quinn hits the escalators.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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They can do MUCH worse. He hasn't lost the team, yet. Even if some of the vets are probably becoming discouraged he hasn't lost it yet. If DA is our best option then it shows just how bad our QB situation was from the beginning. I don't expect BQ or DA to be on the team next year.
He hasn't lost the team yet? When your team is averaging a differential of over 15 points per game, that should be a pretty clear indicator that you don't have them. They didn't even show up to play on Sunday. When you have the team, your team competes and fights for you. This squad looks like one that has mailed it in before the bye.
We're... we're good?
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SO you are saying that you believe that Lerner, Mangini and the rest of his staff would rather lose games than pay BQ? Cuz they are GOING to PLAY the BEST option. That is what you do in the NFL. But b/c we would have to pay him---we are just gonna go with this other guy until we don't have to pay as much for our #1's pay. That is ridiculous. It is ridiculous to believe that this organization is tanking games in an effort to avoid playing Quinn. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I gave DA a slight pass the previous 2 games because of the drops and weather at Buffalo. However, last game he was simply awful, those passes were uncatchable. On STO Grossi and Sam Rutigliano went into how bad Mangini is and why Quinn isn't playing, but I am afraid to post it as I dont want to get banned for posting something without a link. Check out The Red Zone on STO if you see it on for the scoop. Grossi HERE says that he thinks Mangini will have to be competitive in his prime time divisional games and win the last 3 games to save his job. Otherwise his future with the Browns will very much be in doubt.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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That is ridiculous. It is ridiculous to believe that this organization is tanking games in an effort to avoid playing Quinn.
So when you play a guy with a 40.6 QB rating with confidence, without considering alternatives and without hesitation, that's NOT tanking games?
Every other team that has serious QB issues is considering making a switch... the Panthers are looking at Matt Moore, the Raiders are considering sitting Russell for Bruce Gradkowski (whose talents we're all familiar with), the Titans are looking at Vince Young, the Niners have already turned to Alex Smith, the Redskins are debating sitting Campbell, Tampa has benched both Leftwich and Josh Johnson, Stafford is hurt, even Rex Ryan considered sitting Sanchez. That covers every qualifying QB in the league with a rating below 70 as well as some above.
Yet, here we have DA with a rating of 40.6, one point higher than he'd get if he'd thrown every one of his passes into the ground, and you hear nothing, despite the fact that we have a 1st round pick on the bench who has seen a whopping 2.5 games this year, who Mangini thought highly enough of to name as STARTER entering the season.
Are all those other teams tanking games because they're benching their starter (in many cases for players worse than Quinn), or is it the one team out of the entire league who has a travesty at QB and yet refuses to do ANYTHING?
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
j/c
I think that if Mangini is not playing Quinn because of the escalators in his contract that Mangini should be fired immediately.
I will say that I don't think the contract situation enters into Mangini's mind because, hey, it ain't his money if Quinn hits the escalators.
What if Lerner has "requested" that Quinn not play because of those escalators
What if I told you I COMPLETELY agree with Lerner, IF he made that determination?
General reply.........It's easy for fans to write checks that don't come out of their own bank accounts.
So, why do I REALLY think Mangini is sticking with Anderson? Because based on what I've seen, the receivers aren't doing a very good job of getting open, and the line isn't doing a very good job of blocking. We've already seen that neither QB is going to take this team on his shoulders and win a game, and since we're already out of the running this year, the only REAL goals left are to make the existing players who are vital to the development of the team as a whole better. To that end, it's my opinion that Anderson can do more at this point in the season to help facilitate the development of the receivers.
None of that has anything to do with winning a ball game.
Counter-productive to the ultimate goal? Yes. Vital to accomplishing the goal over the next couple of years? Yes.
It's my belief that we don't stand much of a chance of winning any more games going forward, so the primary objective is to develop these rookie receivers to see what's worth keeping. While developing Quinn would seem to be more important, I don't see how he could develop without receivers that get open, which brings us back to which guy does the most to help the team as a whole develop.
Keep in mind why Anderson's numbers are so poor, and we'll see that one of the factors revolves around how many throws the coaches are calling to the receivers. This is designed specifically to get them work. With that singular objective in mind, Anderson is still the most qualified.
Quinn will get another chance this year because they'll need to see what he's got, but sticking with Anderson is more about developing the receivers than it is about anything else.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
You know, I hadn't thought of the "developing the WRs" aspect of it. I'm not sure I totally buy it, but it makes just as much sense as everything else.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183 |
What are they trying to develop, receivers who can contort themselves like circus freaks to make catches on poorly thrown balls? I don't see how DA helps develop receivers better when he cannot hit the broadside of a barn from 10 feet.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 8,015 |
The fanbase as a whole should have understood what it meant when we took 2 WR's in the second round. We weren't making investments for the present, but for the future, and the only way to encourage the development of that investment is to throw them the ball, something that Quinn was unable/unwilling to do.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini sticking with DA
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