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I see everyone is talking about QB. I propose this scenario
At the end of the year, get rid of BOTH Da and Quinn (Even though I like DA, this circus has to end)
Troy Smith is a Restricted Fa for the Ravens. Smith was actually going to be the starter for them until he got some illness or hurt and Flacco took over.
I have always thought of and projected Troy Smith as a "serviceable" QB
he is not a world beater, but he is a decent QB
He has a strong arm, he is mobile, he has decent accuracy (much better then DA) His mobility will help our OL
Also, I believe smith could be had at a decent price. We could offer him a pretty high tender(for a backup QB) either the Ravens match(weakening them as a divisional rival taking cap space from them) or they let us have him, and we give up a 4th rd pick
smith is a better Qb right now then anything we could get in the 3rd or 4th rds...he has some expereince, he wanted to play here anyways, and we could sign him for a few years at a reasonable price.
We can then focus our 1st rd draft pick on the defensive side of the ball....and bring in an OL, a NFL Offensive Coordinator, a veteran WR, and maybe a few other players
bringing in Smith would free up our 1st rder to address our terrible Defense in some way
I think smith could be better than Jason Campbell....the only knock on Smith is he is a bit short, however, I do not believe that will effect him that much since he likes to move around and make his own passing lanes.
The kid played "big" in big games against Michagan back in the day...games where a National Title Bid was on the line...the kid is no stranger to pressure
also I do believe Ted Ginn may be available from the Dolphins
why not reunite Smith and Ginn right here in Cleveland, those guys were prolific in college.
I have just laways liked Smith, even though im not really a big college fan
I feel Smith is a good talent, and he could help us, and free up our draft for our Defense....I would love to reunite Smith and Ginn
thoughts?
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Where's Ammo?......... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Why not?
Smith is better then everything we got right now
I see Smith as a "stop-gap" until we get a team built here
who knows maybe Smith would end up more than that
I am just throwing out ideas here
the LAST thing this need needs to do is use a 1st rd pick on another QB...we got way too many other holes to fill..thats my point..why not Smith? he is young, he may be a good QB, maybe he won't be but
we would weaken a divisional rival by atleast offering him a sheet...
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I'm sorry, but I'm done with stop gaps at QB (Dilfer, Garcia)
I'm done with projects (Frye, Anderson, etc.)
I want a first round QB. Period.
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Legend
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I think Maurice Clarett might be available too. 
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm done with stop gaps at QB (Dilfer, Garcia)
I'm done with projects (Frye, Anderson, etc.)
I want a first round QB. Period.
actually Garcia was the best QB we have had here Since Kosar, In Fact Garcia at that time was a bona fide NFL QB...
Butch DAvis just didn't call plays to suit Garcia's strengths
a 1st rd QB is no gurantee he will be any good TopDawg
actually in playing a game of percentages, Troy Smith has a better chance of working out then a rookie QB
I am just saying, we need to get a good team built with some decent depth
drafting a 1st rd Qb is setting the kid up to fail
With Smith we get a buffer for a few years while we stock in the draft
also, besides, Smith to Ginn may be = to Manning to Harrison for years to come
Smith and Ginn have a "connection" they just have it with each other...Smith doesn't even have to look, those 2 just know each other that well, and face it Ginn is better then any receiver on this team with straight speed and a set of wheels...he is every bit as fast as Andre Davis, but he is a better oute runner with better hands...Smith has the arm to get the kid the ball...good things happen when Ginn has the ball in his hands in space...
a 1st rd QB is not necessarily the answer...see Tom Brady
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We have a first round QB.
I much rather sign a guy we know is good and has played well in the NFL. The draft is a crapshoot.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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lol Clarett was a case wasn't he?
i like Smith better than Campbell though...
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I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm done with stop gaps at QB (Dilfer, Garcia)
I'm done with projects (Frye, Anderson, etc.)
I want a first round QB. Period.
So you're not done with First Round QBs? (Couch, Quinn)
Yeah, how about we don't draft a QB period. Sign a sacrificial lamb and build the rest of the team/ defense.
you had a good run Hank.
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Why spend anything on T Smith when Craig Krenzel is selling cars here in Columbus. And what are Pepe Pearson and Andy Katzenmoyer up to? If we could just put together an all Buckeye team I think some of our diluted Browns fans would be thrilled to watch them get their butts kicked week after week.
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how can we know Smith wouldn't work out? he hardly has played...Flaccoo ius the man there
I don't see the harm in it, give him a year and build the team...if he works out, great, if not, we have a good team and can draft our 1st rd qb..its a win win
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Haven't we already had this discussion?
When will this end?
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Quote:
Why not?
Top is an OSU hater to the extreme 
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm done with stop gaps at QB (Dilfer, Garcia)
I'm done with projects (Frye, Anderson, etc.)
I want a first round QB. Period.
Because there's no safer bet than a first round QB 
1 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 3 Akili Smith QB Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown QB UCLA Chicago Bears
1 1 Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons
1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans
1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon Detroit Lions
1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane Washington Redskins
1 7 Byron Leftwich QB Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars
1 19 Kyle Boller QB California Baltimore Ravens
1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills
1 1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins
1 3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart QB USC Arizona Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt Denver Broncos
1 1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
1 22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
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I think the only stopgap QB we should be looking at is Marc Bulger, if he hits the market.
Bulger has been dominant in the past and is stuck on a horrific Rams team right now. Give him some targets and he can do damage.
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Legend
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I completely agree with your list Gift but is it really fair to label Daunte Culpeper as a "bust?"
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm done with stop gaps at QB (Dilfer, Garcia)
I'm done with projects (Frye, Anderson, etc.)
I want a first round QB. Period.
i agree.
i believe in development and giving guys time but i am so tired of watching our guys do nothing for seasons at a time, while guys like ryan, flacco, sanchez have early success.
joe flacco had a mediocre at best offense when he came to baltimore and he was able to make them a very good unit.
i really think we need to get rid of every quarterback on this team, draft a rookie qb, first round, and maybe pick up a veteran to hold the fort down.
it is clear that neither of these guys (DA, quinn) are going to be successful in cleveland.
i think daboll might need to be shown the door as well. i didn't like the sign, and i want an experienced guy. i don't know why we always have to bring on first time guys with offense. is lerner cheap with assistant coaches or something?
i think assistants are just as important as the head guy (see pittsburgh steelers)
Last edited by LeBron James; 10/26/09 09:33 PM.
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i wouldn't call cutler a bust. he's an above average qb on a horrible offensive team. their line makes ours look like an all pro group. their receivers are horrible. and forte can't do a thing.
i think a lot of it is ron turner's playcalling too, i watch quite a bit of the bears.
cutler isn't in the class of brady, brees, or manning, but he's a solid qb.
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Quote:
I completely agree with your list Gift but is it really fair to label Daunte Culpeper as a "bust?"
I'll add in Cutler....as he's not a bust (not a franchise-saver, but not a bust)....also, the door is slightly ajar on Alex Smith (he played amazing on Sunday, but it might have been just another flash).
in addition....there is no round safer than the 1st round to draft a QB....as sad as a list of 1st round QB boom to bust may be....it's still far better than any other round (we had a list last week or the week before and 1st round was far and away where starting QBs were from).
#gmstrong
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Yep it's pretty much proven on here time and time again if your going to draft one you better do it in the 1st round............if not then don't waste another mid round pick on one, because the success rate there is next to nil. I want either stick with one of the 2 ugly ducklings, sign a FA, or if there is one we feel is the top notch then draft one in the 1st. I do not want to waste a mid round pick for a QB that has a 90% chance of failing.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Just becuase there's 2 sides of a story:
1.Peyton Manning
2.Eli Manning
3.Phil Rivers
4.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Jay Cutler
6.Matt Ryan
7.Joe Flacco
8.Donovan Mcnabb
9.Carson Palmer
10.Chad Pennington
11.AAron Rodgers.
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Like I said.
Crapshoot.
Give me a proven NFLer over a draft pick. Especially bringing in a bad QB to bad teams. Look at that other list and see how many of those guys went to bad teams- a lot. Not to say they'd strive in a better environment, but I'm sure it would give them a lot better opportunity.
And I would remove Culpepper from that list, btw.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Just becuase there's 2 sides of a story:
1.Peyton Manning
2.Eli Manning
3.Phil Rivers
4.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Jay Cutler
6.Matt Ryan
7.Joe Flacco
8.Donovan Mcnabb
9.Carson Palmer
10.Chad Pennington
11.AAron Rodgers.
Two guys on your list aren't even on the team that drafted them. Rodgers sat on the bench for 3 (?) years before starting. Let's not annoint Flacco and Ryan just yet - though they certainly show promise.
That leaves you six 1st round QB's tearing it up for the team that drafted them (and I'm pretending that Eli and Rivers weren't really traded in the context of this evaluation).
We can't afford to draft a QB in the top of the first - it's a disproportionate risk.
MOST importantly of all is that when you take a "bust" like Leftwich and put him in the Steelers offense (for an injured Rothlisberger) he looked a a Pro Bowler. He has plenty of talent but he needs the surrounding cast.
I'd take a dozen other veteran QB's over drafting a 1st round QB and mortgaging the future.
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Legend
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look at what Cutler got the Broncos in return.....if you get 2 1st rounders and a starting QB back for your starting QB, you cannot call him a bust by any stretch.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I completely agree with your list Gift but is it really fair to label Daunte Culpeper as a "bust?"
Culp isn't on the list because I'm defining him as a bust ( I actually kinda like the guy) but because he was cut from the team that drafted him -shipped out - shown the door. That means he "didn't work out" to some large degree.
If you can get a known product like Cutler for a 1st -then why would you give a 1st for an unknown?? I
Guys like Leftwitch and Culp could be had affordably. Pennington was a FA. Brees a FA, Warner, etc. Jason Campbell is about to become an FA.
I'll take any of those guys over a $100 Million dollar rookie.
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Culpepper had several good years in Minny. He may not be good now, but he definitely helped the team put up huge numbers back in the day.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
look at what Cutler got the Broncos in return.....if you get 2 1st rounders and a starting QB back for your starting QB, you cannot call him a bust by any stretch.
Not arguing that.
I'm pointing out that the Bears didn't have to gamble $100 Mil on a rookie that has never played. They inherited a decent contract, proven talent, and totally by passed the entire "rookie holdout" and growth curve issues.
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I think Smith wouldn't be a bad filler on a short contract to avoid using a draft pick next year on another QB that won't mount to much here because of the lack of surrounding talent. He has no wear on his tread which is a plus. I'd sign him and get rid of Quinn and DA in a heartbeat.  Oh, and just say no to Timmy Tebow! He is not a pro level QB!
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Quote:
Sign a sacrificial lamb and build the rest of the team/ defense.
Why should we sign anyone? We have 2 good sacrificial lamb prospects in Quinn and DA. Save the money. Spend it on someone else. Get rid of 1 of the QB's, use the draft to build up the rest of the team.
There is no need to sign a QB just to throw him out there. If your going to sign a QB, then make it worth your while. Get someone that can truly improve the position. Other wise it's making a move just for the sake of doing it.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
look at what Cutler got the Broncos in return.....if you get 2 1st rounders and a starting QB back for your starting QB, you cannot call him a bust by any stretch.
Not arguing that.
I'm pointing out that the Bears didn't have to gamble $100 Mil on a rookie that has never played. They inherited a decent contract, proven talent, and totally by passed the entire "rookie holdout" and growth curve issues.
but to bypass that you need to trade away 2 1st round picks and a QB that the returning team considers starting material (they said no to the Redskins for Campbell)
brees is a once in a generation mistake (like Steve Young last generation)
guys like penny and warner are stop-gaps and good enough to get you by....but not franchise QBs either (guys that will keep you competitive every single year)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
^^^^ This
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
^^^^ This
 And where would we play Tebow? Tight end?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
^^^^ This
And where would we play Tebow? Tight end?
Everyone is underestimating what this guy is going to do. He would be 8x any QB we have on our roster right now.
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troy smith, tim tebow, and josh cribbs in the backfield. it's an odd number so we could run a quintupple reverse followed by a heave downfield...or at least pickle in the middle
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
^^^^ This
And where would we play Tebow? Tight end?
Everyone is underestimating what this guy is going to do. He would be 8x any QB we have on our roster right now.
Couldn't agree more. I don't care what scouts say about him. The man can throw the ball just as good as any of the bums we have on this team and has a heart a hundred times bigger than anyone else in the whole league, the man just refuses to lose. That's who I want leading my football team, not some guy who can throw the ball 70 yards for no reason.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not against Troy Smith.
But we gotta get Timmy Tebow too.
^^^^ This
And where would we play Tebow? Tight end?
Every time Timmy Tebow completes a pass, an angel gets its wings.
I'll never count out a guy who has displayed such incredible leadership and heart.
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I'm sure the Ravens will just let a player under their control leave to go start at QB for a division rival.
I know what everyone is thinking, "We got Derek Anderson from them."
You're right. We did. But he was released and we claimed him.
Baltimore is not going to release Troy Smith. And they will probably tender him so if someone signs him they have to give up draft picks as compensation.
Troy Smith is not an option.
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Here's what I'll say about Tebow:
I think he can be a good quarterback if he is given plenty of time to develop behind a good quarterback and coaching staff. His work ethic is the only thing he has going for him there, but that is no small thing. If the Colts would pick him up, I think he could be successful, but for most teams, he doesn't have much of a chance.
I also don't think he can play the tight end/fullback. He would either need to get much stronger or much faster. And what makes people think he could block or catch? If he can't make it as a QB, he'll have to be a wildcat guy, and I don't think he would be that great there. If I'm the Colts, I draft him in the 3rd.
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