DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Official Cavs Opening Day/October Thread

Put me in the crowd of non-panickers.

We just aren't as prepared coming into this season as years' past. Sickness and uncertainty ruled the month. Our team just does not know the offense. Two new starters (well, 3 if you include Andy). I saw Mo and LeBron directing traffic multiple times within an offensive set. Shaq admitted that he did not understand the offense. It took him almost a season to understand it in Phoenix.

We are really going to have to revert back to the KISS principle (not the rock band). Last year, we were a team that remained fairly consistent on the offensive end. This year, I think we'll see times when we look unstoppable, and times we look lethargic. Until we find that comfort level with substitutions, floor spacing and offensive flow, we will struggle. Fortunately, we have the ability to struggle and still win a lot of games.

Cavs started off 0-1 last season too. If any of you were expecting to be 39-2 at home again this season, you might be a bit on the homer/crazy side. Records like that only happen every so often.

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If any of you were expecting to be 39-2 at home again this season,

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You know what bugs me about that record? Nobody ever mentions how LeBron, Mo, Joe Smith, and Z didn't even play in the last game and we still took the 76ers to OT.. I bet if you go back and look, Larry Bird didn't rest the final game the year the Celtics went 40-1....

I know, I said that in my post.

Lets Go Raptors!!!

Cleveland 39, Toronto 57 Half


Not Good!

Our bench is still trash and Mo still can't find his shot back good lord it's like the team never left Orlando.....

Wow......about to be 0-2. We're getting BLASTED!

80 games for these guys to make me like the moves the team made. Haven't liked them from Day 1. Still don't like them now that we're 0-2.

If the Cavs drop to 0-2, this loss is squarely on Brown's shoulders. We tie it at 71 and then Brown takes LeBron out for a 5 minute stretch where we proceed to go back down 13. At no point did he call a TO or even look at the bench. LeBron stood up twice, saying put me back in and Brown never did. Horrible coaching.

j/c..

The most disturbing thing I see when I combine games one and two is the lack of mental toughness..

We looked like a damn deer in headlights in the 2nd quarter..

We get punched in the mouth and we immediately panic and LB goes into 1 on 5 mode.. That is ridiculous and unacceptable for a team that wants to consider themselves contenders..

Mo Williams does not looked prepared out there, and I don't see any leadership out of him. For an "all star" caliber PG in his second season with a "contending" team, that again is unacceptable if we wanna take this thing to the next level..

Didn't win the battle of the bench tonite AGAIN..

Needless to say, I am kinda heated tonite.. I will be at the game on Friday and I don't wanna see us messing around with the T-Wolves...

We get the T-Wolves Friday on the road then we go home for Charlotte on Saturday nite.. No excuses.. Its time to "boss up" and kick the snot outta a couple garbage teams so we can get some confidence and swagger going..

Is it time to FIRE THE COACH...

didn't see the game cause i had school and hockey last night, but cavs gotta get that sense of urgency, can't fall behind too far in the standings. long way to go though, cavs were 1-2 after 3 games last year.

I was expecting a rough start to this year....

1. things went too well last year during the regular season, that rarely happens

2. delonte's troubles

3. adding Shaq, Parker, Moon....they need to fit into the system (tough defensive system to learn with all the movement Mike Brown has)

4. Losing Kuester to Detroit and not bringing in another OC



And Toronto should be a playoff team this year......still, I hope we play with a much bigger sense of urgency on our upcoming schedule.....I want teams to see us coming to town and subconsciously chalk it up as a loss.

As was I, like I mentioned earlier in the thread...

I can understand the pain points you mentioned, but I cannot accept the ridiculous swings and runs our games have taken the first two nites..

It points right to mental toughness.. We are not exemplifying a "been there, done that" type of attitude like we need to be.. On the floor guys look surprised and timid during the runs.. In this league, you gotta have the moxy, and right now, we don't..

Now with that said, it is plenty early and it sometimes only takes 2 or 3 games to get that going.. I know this group has talent, I just wanna see the mental edge that combines with the talent..

On a positive note, I like what I see outta Moon.. Guy can FINISH.. I wanna see him cutting everytime LB has the rock.. Kid is an exceptional athlete and I think it is nice for LB to know that he can get the ball to someone cutting in the lane who will actually dunk the damn thing if possible..

Cavs steps to become a championship caliber team (b/c they are NOT right now).

1. Sign FA PG Antonio Daniels

He's old and no world burner, but we have NO backup PG. As much as we keep trying him, Boobie Gibson just is not a PG. If Delonte comes back healthy and strong at some point this year, we might be able to cut Daniels and let DWest be our backup PG..but until then we need SOMEBODY. Having Mo and LeBron as our only ballhandlers is killing us.

2. Cavs trade : JJ Hickson, Boobie Gibson, Jawad Williams
Warriors trade : Stephen Jackson

Without DWest we have no starting SG. When DWest comes back I'd prefer him to come off the bench to be our backup PG. That means we desperately need a starting caliber SG. Jackson is a perfect fit. He's long (6'8) and athletic enough to match up with the Ray Allen's and Vince Carter's. Not to mention, we'd FINALLY have someone who can create their own shot outside of LeBorn. With Shaq clogging up the middle we HAVE to get better spacing and movement on offense. Guys who can't create on their own end up standing around waiting for LeBron to do something and then reacting. Result = LeBron 1 on 5.....again.

Jackson obviously wants out of Golden State and I think they might enjoy 3 young bodies to put in their run-n-gun system. Yeah Jackson can be a head case but so can Shaq. We're already down that road, might as well go all in. I think/hope LeBron and Mike Brown could keep him in check.

Lastly, he allows us to move Anthony Parker back to his role of coming off the bench with the 2nd unit. More on that later.

3. Cavs re-sign Rob Kurz

Only b/c he was the last guy cut and we'd need one more guy to round out the back of the roster. Kid showed glimpses in pre-season. I don't mind him as guy #15.

4. NEVER EVER EVER EVVVVVVER play Shaq at the same time with either Varejao or Z.

It just can't happen. Andy isn't a good enough shooter to play on the outside thus he camps at the block...at the same time Shaq is doing the same thing. Even if he does go out for a pick and roll...the defense isn't going to respect it. I know Andy is a great rebounder and defender, but our offense will never have any flow to it with him on the floor same time as Shaq.

Now Z? I like the offense with him and Shaq together. Z gets to do his pick and pop, and we actually have "decent" spacing. The problem here is obviously on D. No way in the world are we athletic enough with those 2 guys on the floor together. We saw it two games in a row now. As soon as we go to this lineup...the other team pushes the ball and runs us off the floor. Just CAN NOT happen.

5. Due to #4, time to find a new starting PF (temporarily).

So if Shaq is our starting C, and we can't start Andy or Z, and we traded JJ, and Powe is still injured...who in the WORLD is our starting PF? (How many times did I ask myself this all off-season?)

Short term answer. LeBron James. He's big enough, strong enough, athletic enough. He may not be AS GOOD a defender at PF than SF, but right now he's the best we've got. Mike Brown is going to HAVE to learn to play this small lineup for awhile. Will it work against the elite teams in the NBA? Probably not. But it's our best option in the short term.

Long term answer. Leon Powe. Getting him back and healthy after the new year is going to be key to our playoff success. If he can slide into our starting PF spot, we could be really REALLY good. He brings the athleticism, defense and toughness we need at that spot.

6. If LeBron is starting at PF, who the heck is our starting SF?

Answer. Jamario Moon. Long, athletic, defender. Can run and space the floor and finish. Noticing a trend yet? If we acquired Jackson you could argue to start Jackson at SF and keep starting Parker at SG, but I really think we need SOME offensive weapons on our 2nd unit. I'm much more comfortable bringing Anthony off the bench and letting him operate with that 2nd group. That's what he was signed for...let's let him excel at his role.

7. Have some patience.

Lots and lots of new people and parts. Half our success last year was our amazing chemistry we had from day 1. We don't have that yet this year. It's painfully obvious. I think we CAN get there, but it's going to take some time for guys to find their roles AND for coaches to figure out rotations. The quicker the coaches figure it out, the quicker the players can adjust and get comfy. Right now neither has happened. Let's hope it happens sooner rather than later. We have the talent, and (assuming we take the steps I outlined above) we have the pieces to make this work. Let's give em some time to figure it out, b/c I think they will.

8. So after all this jargon, what are our rotations now you ask?

Short term:

Starters
PG: Williams
SG: Jackson
SF: Moon
PF: James
C: O'Neal

Second Team
PG: Daniels (a true backup PG)
SG: Parker (his expected role)
SF: Green (give the rook some PT)
PF: Varejao
C: Ilgauskas (our starting PF/C combo from last year...work really well together, might be the BEST PF/C 2nd unit combo in the NBA)

Long Term:

Starters
PG: Williams
SG: Jackson
SF: James
PF: Powe
C: O'Neal

Second Team:
PG: West
SG: Parker
SF: Moon
PF: Varejao
C: Ilgauskas

I really think THAT is a championship caliber lineup.

chris broussard reported that the cavs definitely have interest in jackson but they are wanting z back in return

I love Z, I really do but if that's all it's going to take to get a guy who scored 20 and 6 last season, then you pull the trigger. Especially when the player has expressed a desire to play in Cleveland. If Golden State is trying to save money, there's probably a chance to swap draft picks as well (which would be a steal in my opinion). Arrange a buyout and Z comes back 30 days later. Win, win really.

Jackson would significantly improve our weakest link right now (SG / scoring SF when LeBron is getting his rest) and also bring a little attitude to this club. Not really sure what's holding Ferry up on this one if the deal is as simple as Z for Jackson. Gilbert has always given him a blank check to work with. When you consider that this is the most important season in franchise history, you might as well go down swinging. If it costs you some money down the road so be it. You're only married to him for this season and next. If he becomes a problem, he's just another big trade chip down the line in the 3rd year of his extension.

I'm typically not a "make this trade now!" type person but Jackson is a quality player that can be had for pretty much nothing. He can guard 3 positions and would give us a huge size upgrade at the 2 (6'8''). The longer we wait on it, the harder it will be to get him in my opinion. December 15th is when teams can start to trade newly signed players. At that point, there will probably be a lot more on the table for him.

i like jackson, good player, a bit of an attitude problem, but not something the cavs couldn't handle. also has experience in both san antonio and indiana with coach brown.

i don't think z is the only piece in that deal i would bet draft picks and maybe hickson/green/gibson one of those 3 involved. i don't really know.

i think we should maybe wait it out a little. maybe they get desperate.

and yeah, we're 0-2 but no reason to panic, nobody is talking about picking up sj if we're 2-0.

Yeah ... I'm not sure now is the time to talk about blowing up the team and mixing things around. Part of the reason we're struggling is the current new additions are having trouble adjusting.

I don't think record is what's pressing people to want to make this trade, at least not 2 games in.

For me it's simply match ups with both Boston and Orlando. Jackson significantly increases our chances of beating both those teams because of his size, length and scoring ability.

In the end, those are the teams we are going to have to go through.

I don't see any way the Cavs and Warriors could make a Jackson for Z trade though. I understand that GS wants Z's expiring contract to come off their books, but they couldn't add that much money in the immediate trade. Both teams are already over the cap (as crazy as it is to believe that GS is over the cap).

Jackson's salary = 7.65 Mill
Z's salary = 11.54 Mill

We would need to accept roughly another 2 Million in salary somehow for that trade to pass league rules. Do you really think they'd give up Jackson PLUS just to get Z's contract? I dunno, the only guy I can even fathom might be backup PG Acie Law (he's making 2.2 Mill with 1 year left).

J/C

there were thoughts over the summer that Rudy Gay and Memphis might part ways at some point this season....then, they go and hire AI.....Mayo, AI, Randolph - not exactly the passers that Gay needs to be successful.

So, it just might be a matter of Ferry waiting it out to see which cash-strapped team gets desperate and tries to make the most of it (for those working the numbers, it'd have to be Gay+Jaric for Z+1st rounder)

Cavs thrashed Minnesota. Finnally had a good 2nd quarter

Mo, Z and Boobie finnally looked good

2 thoughts for cavalier fans today,
pray for delonte, also z should start.

Delonte's back

Anyone interested in two tickets to tomorrows game? Less than face value. PM me if you're interested.

Cleveland Cavaliers guard Delonte West indicted on additional weapons and traffic charges in Maryland
By Brian Windhorst
November 03, 2009, 3:47PM

Delonte West is finally back on the court for the Cleveland Cavaliers, but his legal problems in Maryland are getting more complicated.

Prince George’s County (Md.) State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey announced today that West was indicted by a grand jury on a wide array of weapons counts, more expansive than the two-gun possession charges police applied when he was arrested following a traffic stop Sept. 17 outside of Washington, D.C.

West has been indicted on two counts of carrying a dangerous weapon, two counts of carrying a handgun, two counts of transporting a handgun, and one count of reckless driving and one count of negligent driving. If convicted, West could face up to three years for each of the six gun charges and a $2,500 fine per offense.

Ivey told The Associated Press today that West will likely be arraigned by the end of the week, and the case could go to trial early next year. He is being charged with carrying and transporting a fully-loaded Ruger .357 Magnum and a fully-loaded Beretta 9mm handgun.

One of the guns was in his pocket and another was strapped to his leg, according to the charges. One of the dangerous weapons charges is for carrying a Remington 870 shotgun, which was in a guitar case over his back, which had eight shotgun shells in a side saddle carrier.

Also police found a total of 112 shotgun shells, most of them in a camel-style backpack West was also carrying on his Can-Am Spyder three-wheeled motorcycle. Also, for the first time it was revealed that West was carrying an 8.5-inch Bowie-style knife when officers arrested him.

web page

We are playing like crap right now against the Wizards, I dont remember last time we gave up 31 pts in a qt. We have lost our identity this game, stagnant offense followed by terrible defense. This does not look like the Cavs I remember.

What the hell has happened to Mo Williams?

cavs are clicking.

shaq looks great, boobie is looking really good, mo looks good, lbj is lbj and andy is flying around everywhere, the cavs look like they're back.

Shaq is looking great in the middle, a couple big blocks/fouls that will make people think twice about driving the lane. We have been missing that. Great 3 qts of Basketball to watch.

i think mike brown is doing a great job of managing his minutes too, didn't panic when they started 0-2 and being tempted to try and get more outta him. i like this pace. z looks a little more comfortable after a week of being a 6th man

We killed those punks in the pain by outscoring them 40-22

Somebody taught Shaq how to shoot free throws! 7-10 from the line, Wow! I like the way the are dividing the minutes too. I think Z is shooting the jump shots to much now, We need to get him back on the post for hook shots and post moves. He just seems to be shooting the jumper to often now. Great comeback win tonight though!