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what is Cowher gonna do that Mangini isn't trying to do now?
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I think you make the decision at the bye. turn it over to anyone to finish up the season.
It gives u a head start in the search over the other teams that are going to be changing coaches at the end of the year. It also will allow your top choice a little extra time in courting his assistants.
How bout Holmgreen as President of football operations. Gruden coach and whoever Mike and Chucky trusts as GM.
I really think that combo could happen and could really get this thing turned around quickly.
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i dont like Gruden..
not only do I not like him.. but can you even imagine the type of QB controversy he will bring to Cleveland?
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Even if you don't fire him mid-season, I hope things are in motion behind the scenes. Then if Holmgreen, or whoever wants the job now, then fire him midseason.
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He said he wasn't going to coach again until his daughter graduated from high school in North Carolina (unless he got blown away by an offer). She graduated this past summer. It wouldn't surprise me if Cowher is much more willing to listen this time around. I remember reading from Peter King at the time that although he said no to coaching in 2010, the Browns job is the one he'd be most interested in.
With so many quality experienced coaches out there though, there should be no excuse for not landing one.
I also think he gets some sort of "retirement" check from the Steelers, since he had money left on his contract. Not sure about that though ... but I think all of that expires after this year.
I don't even want to SEE the name of an OC or a college coach. If you're going to fire Mangini after one year, it better be for a guy with a wealth of winning head-coaching experience. That leaves:
Cowher - Who would probably be my number one choice, but he's never had to deal with rebuilding a program.
Marty - Probably my number two choice, but caries the stigma of never being able to win the big game ... however after 10 years of putrescence, I'm not sure the fans will mind 5 straight years of playoff exits.
Holmgren - My third choice, but this guy is going to want full control of everything. Those of you who insist Randy needs layers and layers of bureaucracy to run this organization won't be pleased with a one-man show.
Shanahan - My fourth choice ... but look at how well Denver is doing without him. Then again, I think this guy would get the run blocking schemes installed to turn us into a team with a run-first mentality ... something that would work in the AFC North.
Fisher - A distant fifth choice ... I think he can do the job, but he's had quite a few down years as well as winning years. I'm not sure he's that much of an upgrade to can Mangini after one year.
Gruden - A distant, distant sixth choice ... I only list him because of his "experience" ... I'm still not sure I'd take him. I'd probably rather stick it out with Mangini for another year.
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what is Cowher gonna do that Mangini isn't trying to do now?
Nothing.
A guy like Cowher will do everything that Mangini is TRYING to do now. The key in what you said is that Mangini is trying... he isn't succeeding. We want a leader, not a tyrant. We want discipline, not suffocating control. We want a coach who commands respect, not a coach who requires it. We want a coach open to suggestion but still with final authority, not a coach who makes himself the only authority.
Like you said, what Mangini wants is exactly what most good coaches want... he just doesn't have a freaking clue how to achieve it. Both he and Belichick were terrible coaches during their first stint. The difference is, Belichick spent time out of the role and learned from his mistakes, corrected those mistakes, and is now a Hall of Fame caliber guy. Mangini is doing the same damn thing he did with the Jets, almost to the letter.
Nothing about Mangini's ego or how he seamlessly transitioned into another job says that he'll ever learn humility or the right way to run a team. That's why we need to cut him loose, not because he isn't trying to do the right things, but because he hasn't learned from his previous mistakes as was hoped and he's too damn stubborn and egotistical to learn the HOW.
Even if you know exactly what the final product should look like, it doesn't mean a damn if you don't know how to get there.
We're... we're good?
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Mangini cannot be allowed back next year not because of his coaching but because of his GM duties.
I want Marty first, because he's never won a big one, and when he builds us into a contender, he isnt gonna up and retire. I fear that someone like Cowher or Holmgren(as a coach, I'd take him as the GM) might retire after a year or two.
Fisher is a pipe dream..
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Mangini isn't the GM. 
Guys, I'm gonna be clear on one thing. Marty has no interest in coaching. I've heard him say it. His only interest is as a front office guy, and that scares me. He has proven he is a good coach, but what makes anyone think he could be a good GM or president?
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I want Marty first, because he's never won a big one, and when he builds us into a contender, he isnt gonna up and retire. I fear that someone like Cowher or Holmgren(as a coach, I'd take him as the GM) might retire after a year or two.
I used to fear hiring the experienced coach because of that retirement threat, but I'm absolutely in the mindset now that we need to get someone in here who knows what the hell he's doing to set things straight so that way, any less experienced successor will actually have something to work with and have a much better learning curve that way. If we'd only get a Cowher or Marty or Holmgren for a few years, then so be it. It's worth it.
Better to have a few years of a good coach who retires than a few years of a bad coach who is fired.
We're... we're good?
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I think you make the decision at the bye. turn it over to anyone to finish up the season.
Yeah we might do so,but I seriously doubt RL would..
How bout Holmgreen as President of football operations. Gruden coach and whoever Mike and Chucky trusts as GM.
First someone would have to be advising RL on this..I know he's not capable of doing this alone..
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what is Cowher gonna do that Mangini isn't trying to do now?
Spit when he talks.
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Marty has no interest in coaching. I've heard him say it. His only interest is as a front office guy, and that scares me. He has proven he is a good coach, but what makes anyone think he could be a good GM or president?
before someone points to Parcells....he had more GM duties than Marty ever did while he was coaching.
Marty had guys like Lombardi here.....Peterson in KC....and Smith in SD....he's never been responsible for personel as far as I know.
honestly, I hate the "name" hires....he's just as inexperienced as a GM (perhaps much more so) than Kokinis....but, he has a "name" so people will tout him.
#gmstrong
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Mangini cannot be allowed back next year not because of his coaching but because of his GM duties.
I agree with this 100%. I know Mangini isn't the GM. But it seems he makes the final call on personnel decisions. I really don't trust the guy with these draft picks we have. We have to have a good draft. I would kill to have someone like Ron Wolf, Bill Parcells, Ozzie Newsome, or Bill Belichick making or picks for us.
I have read good things about George Kokinis, but his positives are negated by the fact that he isn't the guy making the decisions. I think Kokinis could be a good GM if he wasn't hamstrung by Mangini.
If I were making the decisions it would go something like this in the upcoming weeks.
Lose to the Bears. (I wouldn't want this to happen, but we all know it's going to.)
Fire Mangini after losing to the Bears for the following reasons:
Mishandling the QB situation; if Anderson gives the team the better chance to win, why didn't he start for game 1? Mangini obviously screwed up there.
On field performance. Not only is our team losing. Our team is losing while looking horrible. Not just one week. Every week. Even when we win we look horrible.
After firing Mangini I would hire Rob Ryan as the interim head coach. If he doesn't want that position (I think he turned it down last year with the Raiders) then ask Brad Seely if he wants the job. Tell them, if they steer the team to some victories they are the front-runner for the job after the season.
After the season, consider all possibilities for a new head coach. Let Kokinis (if he is kept around) to make the final decision on the head coach. Even though him and Mangini are supposedly buddy-buddy I bet Mangini wouldn't have been Kokinis' first choice if he had hired the coach.
Anyway, this is just a pipe dream. Many of us want Mangini gone. Some for the team's on field performance. Some for Mangini's attitude. Some didn't want him in the first place (I don't think anyone truly wanted him.) Some because he botched the QB situation. Some, like me, don't want him making our draft picks in a deep draft that will determine our future.
The sad part is, we all know that Mangini will most likely return and we will be having this same conversation this time next year.
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what is Cowher gonna do that Mangini isn't trying to do now?
Coach better?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Just read this on the National Football Post: Quote:
Cleveland: I’m going to make this prediction right here and now: This time next year, the Browns will not be any better, and owner Randy Lerner will finally realize what everyone I talk to in the NFL seems to know now — that he’s given control of his team to the wrong man. Take all the time you need to reach this decision, but you will eventually come to the same conclusion.
It seems everyone know Mangini is the wrong guy. Hopefully Lerner figures it out too.
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You're gonna believe it because the national football post says so? "Everyone" also knew that Josh McDaniels was the wrong guy.
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The sad part is, we all know that Mangini will most likely return and we will be having this same conversation this time next year.
Mangini is history and so is his little lapdog too.
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For the record: I don't want EM fired mid-season even if it might be the best (debatable)....I want everyone of his last supporters to SEE how ugly this will get so that there's no discussion left AFTER he will be shown the door...I think it's the best for this org if the mass REALIZES it the hard way, as much as it will hurt to watch them going forward...trust me, we've just seen glimpses of that
#gmstrong
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You're gonna believe it because the national football post says so? "Everyone" also knew that Josh McDaniels was the wrong guy.
Now , now Deep, lets keep this in perspective .. There where folks on this board that were very interested in McDaniels ...
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Wow Amigo : You really have hit bottom with the organization !
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It's not just that web site. It's just another example of things that have been said about Mangini since the day he got hired.
Repeatedly we all have read stories about Mangini. How many have been positive? Whether it was the rookie bus trip, the exorbitant fining, the grievances, the happiness of Jets players once he was fired, etc.
The media doesn't like him, the players don't like him, and most of the fans don't like him. Really I don't care if just the players don't like him. The Giants starting dumping Gatorade on Parcells after they won because they disliked him. Teams can win while disliking a coach. But a combination of all three is bad.
Usually where there is smoke there is fire. Contrary to some people's beliefs the media is not out to get Cleveland. If anything they feel sorry for the Browns (and the Indians and the Cavs) and want us to succeed because they know the passion of the fan base.
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Quote:
You're gonna believe it because the national football post says so? "Everyone" also knew that Josh McDaniels was the wrong guy.
Now , now Deep, lets keep this in perspective .. There where folks on this board that were very interested in McDaniels ...
Including Deep himself.
I was one of them interested in McDaniels, just sayin'.
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I'm talking about the time after his hire and before the season started.
And I'm sick of hearing the players don't like Mangini. I've yet to see one confirmation of this, but I could give many examples of players liking him including many Jets following him over here, and Steinbach saying something along the lines of, "If they had been running laps during the offseason they wouldn't have had nine false starts."
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Usually where there is smoke there is fire. Contrary to some people's beliefs the media is not out to get Cleveland. If anything they feel sorry for the Browns (and the Indians and the Cavs) and want us to succeed because they know the passion of the fan base.
the media is in it to get internet clicks and paper purchases, nothing more.
you generally get negative press unless you make splashy moves that they can put in their headlines....you continue to get negative press until you start winning, at which point you get completely positive press extolling your virtues.....until you start losing, at which point you get negative press again.
McDaniels - mostly negative press at his hiring....too young, inexperienced....then the Cutler fiasco....then the Marshall pouting. the first week was just a gift against the lowly bengals and it's gonna be a long season......now they are being touted as a SuperBowl contender and a dominant force (just wait till they lose a couple in a row and get moved back to pretender status)
Haley / Pioli - Pioli gets touted as the 2nd coming since he was technically GM during the Pats rise....then, a split of positive and negative press on his trade for Cassel and subsequent contract......then, a whole slwe of negative press firing the OC in the preseason....and it continues to build up.
Raheem - another too young guy....just got the job because they were afraid of losing him a year later?.....fired OC and gets blasted for it. now he's on his 3rd QB of the season and his DBs (his specialty) are giving up big plays every week.
Rex Ryan - this is my favorite example:
comes in and starts being real brash....signs Scott to a big deal in FA to make headlines didn't hurt.....big tradeup for Sanchez for more headlines....talking smack at NE.....talking smack about how he's gonna blitz constantly and yadda yadda....he's helping sell papers and he's winning......all positive press.....
all of a sudden, teams have figured out where to go against his defense since they blitz so often and they are on a swoon (losing to the same Bills we beat even) and Sanchez looks like the rookie QB with limited college experience he is and they are getting taken to task in the press.
sorry, a lot of rambling there.....so...
moral of the story - pick out the info from the media where you can, but makeup your own minds and be careful to distinguish facts from conjecture (they are making that tougher these days).
#gmstrong
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Mangini isn't the GM.
You actually believe Kok has any say on matters? He is nothing more than an assistant to EM. I know your not dense enough honestly believe Kok has a say in what goes on here.
Again, as a coach, EM has many, many issues....which is why nobody in this league wanted anything to do with him.
But now not only do we have a nut case as our HC, he also has the final say for this franchises personel moves, and has made stupid decision after stupid decision.
Allowing him to come back here, next offseason, and blow more draft picks and sign more worthless has been veterans, would only be on par with every other stupid decision made by current ownership.
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And I'm sick of hearing the players don't like Mangini. However U may be sick of it he isn't well liked..I've been seeing a lot of the same things spoken about him throughout the league..
Now what I thought I'd see was more discipline which I have...but I also sense more tenseness .. but I could give many examples of players liking him including many Jets following him over here, I could play the other side of the fence on this  ..those EX-Jets were not really needed over there..nor highly recruited on the FA front either..
Personally I do not think it was smart to overload this roster with that team..the Jets were not defensive gems...it was overkill..
I've seen this too many times before..and Steiny's remark doesn't in one way reflect that he likes him..just that guys had to be accountable...
If he somehow makes it to next year we will indeed see who wants to come here and who doesn't.
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Gruden. Cowher, yeah, but pigs will probably fly first. Hey, if we need to put a face on the team, Grudy-mon is it. Chucky does Cleveland!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Not only that, but most of those former Jets came over here via trade...........aka they had no choice......we don't know if they like him or not. Off the top of my head the only FA that came over the Jets is Barton..........maybe Bowens?? The rest were brought over in the Sanchez and BE trades.
I do know throughout the league according to reputable sources he has a reputation as being an jerk.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I listed a boatload of guys who came over through FA in another thread. Belichick also has the reputation for being a jerk, so I don't see the point there.
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j/c I'm not at all for firing Mangini, but if he does go the situation here might look a lot more promising for one of the big name coaches......given the cap room and draft picks we've got coming. Mangini will have done the dirty work and the new coach will have nowhere to go but up with a clean slate and lots capital. It's not the crap situation that was here last year. The problem children are also gone.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I agree.
The prospects of having 11+ draft picks could be a tremendous draw to a potential candidate.
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j/c I'm not at all for firing Mangini, but if he does go the situation here might look a lot more promising for one of the big name coaches......given the cap room and draft picks we've got coming. Mangini will have done the dirty work and the new coach will have nowhere to go but up with a clean slate and lots capital. It's not the crap situation that was here last year. The problem children are also gone.
If Fisher became available, I'd fly up there and drag Mangini out into the street with Kokonis under my free arm.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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j/c I'm not at all for firing Mangini, but if he does go the situation here might look a lot more promising for one of the big name coaches......given the cap room and draft picks we've got coming. Mangini will have done the dirty work and the new coach will have nowhere to go but up with a clean slate and lots capital. It's not the crap situation that was here last year. The problem children are also gone.
If Fisher became available, I'd fly up there and drag Mangini out into the street with Kokonis under my free arm.
Toad, that is way too much fun for you to have. If anything, Mangini needs a real whoopin'. Let me take care of him. (This is not a threat. I am simply joking. I in no way want to fight Eric Mangini. He is just awful).
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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If Fisher became available, I'd fly up there and drag Mangini out into the street with Kokonis under my free arm.
I'd vote for a Jeff Fisher tax to help pay Mangini's contract sum.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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If Fisher became available, I'd fly up there and drag Mangini out into the street with Kokonis under my free arm.
I'd be holding the doors for ya & buy ya a beer afterwards. 
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If Randy hires a president of football operations, which is looking like the route this thing is headed, I think there are going to be a ton of people wanting this job. This is the ideal position for those ego driven coaches that want to run everything.
top choices just off the top of my head would be Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgreen, Dungy from the coaching ranks
from the Personnel guys, Rich McKay, Pioli, Kevin Colbert, Rod Graves (Cards GM)
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OK Scratch Dungy from my list after this one lol
Tony Dungy: Tim Tebow will be a great NFL quarterback
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 30, 2009 9:54 AM ET
The biggest question mark in the 2010 NFL Draft is Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, who's viewed by some as a future franchise quarterback and by others as a guy who will need to move to another position if he'll ever make it as a pro.
Count Tony Dungy as emphatically believing that Tebow will be an NFL superstar.
Appearing Friday morning on The Dan Patrick Show, Dungy said he believes the combination of leadership and athletic ability that Tebow has will make him an elite NFL quarterback -- and more than make up for any questions about his throwing motion.
"As a coach, I always like winners," Dungy said. "Tim Tebow doesn't have the classic throwing motion, he doesn't have the accuracy, maybe, right now that some people are looking for, but I think when he gets into a pro system that really stresses throwing the ball accurately, the big thing is he makes the people around him better. And he's won. ... I think he's going to be a great player in the NFL."
Dungy said that if he were running a team with a Top 10 pick, he'd take Tebow. Patrick then asked Dungy who he'd pick for his team if he could have any of the top college quarterbacks, including Washington's Jake Locker, Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Texas's Colt McCoy. Dungy didn't hesitate and said, "I'm taking Tebow."
One of the knocks on Tebow is that during his stellar career in Florida's spread offense, he's never been asked to make the kinds of throws that quarterbacks in prototypical NFL offenses have to make. But Dungy said a good coach can take advantage of Tebow's strengths.
"Is it ever going to be Peyton Manning-ish? Maybe not," Dungy said of Tebow's throwing motion. "But I just think what you can do with him, the problems he creates for a defense, the combination of leadership and what he's shown, if I have him, defenses have to prepare for a totally different offense. ... He's going to give teams the most headaches getting ready for him."
Dungy also said he thinks the Titans are making the right move by starting Vince Young over Kerry Collins, and that if he were the coach of the Chiefs he'd get rid of Larry Johnson.
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"I could play the other side of the fence on this ..those EX-Jets were not really needed over there..nor highly recruited on the FA front either.."
So what is your explanation of Jenkins and Washington regarding their praises of Mangini?
You guys are funny. Django in all his glory...lol 
It would be a mistake to cave into the media who has hated Mangini from the beginning. This is getting rediculous. First the President of the USA now our Browns. Thats the last straw...lol not my Browns.
I don't know Good or BAD what to make of Mangini at this time. I don't see the product of his TEAM. I see a pretty intelligent football mind that is obvious. Can he LEAD??? Well according to the Media NO according to the "FEW" who don't like discipline NO - but for the majority of the players It is a common character noted about Mangini....he is a good leader.
I find it funny that the MEDIA who darned the name ManGenius on him when he was the most blatant TYRANT nothing close what you see here today...but that was alright....After he blew the whistle on Belicheck....he was DIRT.
Sorry I won't follow the media and their BOZO mentality.
Sorry, after a handful of games I'm not going to pull the plug. Once it is done you tell me What Coach would want to be hired here??? You'll see how the media will then spin it to be a black eye on the Browns organization.
Me...I'm going to ride this baby out. See what kind of team Mangini has here in 2011 and judge him on that...Cause that will be his TEAM!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
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Quote:
"I could play the other side of the fence on this ..those EX-Jets were not really needed over there..nor highly recruited on the FA front either.."
So what is your explanation of Jenkins and Washington regarding their praises of Mangini?
You guys are funny. Django in all his glory...lol
It would be a mistake to cave into the media who has hated Mangini from the beginning. This is getting rediculous. First the President of the USA now our Browns. Thats the last straw...lol not my Browns.
I don't know Good or BAD what to make of Mangini at this time. I don't see the product of his TEAM. I see a pretty intelligent football mind that is obvious. Can he LEAD??? Well according to the Media NO according to the "FEW" who don't like discipline NO - but for the majority of the players It is a common character noted about Mangini....he is a good leader.
I find it funny that the MEDIA who darned the name ManGenius on him when he was the most blatant TYRANT nothing close what you see here today...but that was alright....After he blew the whistle on Belicheck....he was DIRT.
Sorry I won't follow the media and their BOZO mentality.
Sorry, after a handful of games I'm not going to pull the plug. Once it is done you tell me What Coach would want to be hired here??? You'll see how the media will then spin it to be a black eye on the Browns organization.
Me...I'm going to ride this baby out. See what kind of team Mangini has here in 2011 and judge him on that...Cause that will be his TEAM!
JMHO
Dude, the media has been 100% right about this organization. They're not dummies. I'm starting to get upset with people blaming the media when the media has been 100% correct on this.
I said it in another thread: The Browns have the worst organization structure in the city of Cleveland. Having to deal with them over summer was an absolute headache. Where the Indians and Cavs are fan friendly and try to accommodate fans and and media, the Browns do everything humanly possible to be cold, sterile and corporate.
That doesn't even factor in the football operations, which is bad.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
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My explanation?
There are players who liked any coach no matter who it is...the ones who liked him on that Jet team do..I read some felt he was not the problem..and others were relieved to see him go....mixed bag..
We've had this discussion about coaches before...
I said I wanted to give the guy a chance..however from what I see, it's getting worse and worse..it's not getting better..and the stuff behind the scenes isn't making it look positive.
I don't know Good or BAD what to make of Mangini at this time. I don't see the product of his TEAM.
U don't?
Now thats funny..it's clear to see..the product is extremely bad.... and just a second there..you were popping EM for his steadfast backing of DA..and it's becoming clear that there is a rift between EM and Quinn, but that in itself should not keep them from looking at him even if he feels dude needs to go..
No secret that he is labeled a control-freak..and its showing.
Fact is if it were going rosey..RL wouldn't be ticked off right now..
If that locker room is becoming divided and torn apart it's not going to go another year..there's a lot of smoke in Berea..and you know smoke doesn't start by itself..
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