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http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/10/30/sports/nh1631397.txtBy Jeff Schudel JSchudel@News-Herald.comIn the moments after his team lost 38-0 to the Jets last Sunday, Raiders defensive tackle Richard Seymour announced: "I don't think we could've beaten an Oakland high school team today." On Monday night, Redskins defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth blasted his teammates after losing to the Eagles, 27-17, by saying: "Urgency, heart, want-to, whatever. I don't know. We're lacking a lot of stuff right now." There is only one player in the Browns' locker room who carries enough weight to draw attention saying something like that — Jamal Lewis — and he won't go there. He tried it last year, and was chastised by management for it. But this much is very clear; Lewis is fed up with losing and he is not happy with the way business is being conducted at 76 Lou Groza Boulevard in Berea. "I wish I had ownership in this team," Lewis told The News-Herald in a one-on-one interview Thursday. "I wish Randy Lerner would entertain the thought. I'd do a whole lot organizationally. It's a bad time, right? Business is struggling, and this is a business." So, Lewis was asked, if he instead of Lerner owned the Browns, what is the first change he would make? "I'm not going to give you that," Lewis said. "I wish I could. It's all about accountability. That's what I would instill — accountability among everybody. That's how I run my businesses, and they're pretty good businesses. "Everybody is accountable for something. I don't just put it on my employees. I put it on management. I put it on my executives I'm paying the big bucks to. I put it on my executives and management and then everything trickles down to the employees. "I'm not saying that's lacking here, but at the same time, if you were to buy a business that isn't doing well, the first thing you need to look at is who is accountable for areas not doing well and handle it from there." Lewis played seven seasons with the Baltimore Ravens before signing with the Browns as a free agent in 2007. The Ravens won the Super Bowl his rookie year and then went 10-6, 7-9, 10-6 (AFC North champions), 9-7, 6-10 and 13-3 in 2006 (AFC North champions). They did not win a playoff game after winning the Super Bowl in the six seasons Lewis was in Baltimore following the championship year, but each time they finished under .500 they bounced back to have a winning season. After the Browns were 10-6 in 2007, Lewis' first year in Cleveland, they were 4-12 last year and at 1-6 are going nowhere fast this year. "This isn't the football I'm used to," Lewis said. Lewis harkened back to his early days with the Ravens when Art Modell owned the team. Steve Bisciotti has owned the Ravens since 2004 while Modell, 84, retains a minority ownership in the team he moved from Cleveland in 1996. Browns fans won't want to hear it and Lerner probably won't either, but Lewis said Modell is the reason the Ravens were and continue to be successful by setting up an organization and holding everyone in it accountable. "An organization has to be organized in order for it to be an organization," Lewis said. "Art's a great guy. Do you know Art came to every single practice in Baltimore? It didn't matter if it was rain, sleet or snow. He would get off his cart and, slow as he walked, he'd walk by and shake every players hand and say " 'I'm glad to have you as part of our team.' Do you know what that does for a young player? It means a lot. "Art's a reason I'd like to have ownership in a team. I would instill that in the team I'm running because it goes a long way." Modell was very visible as owner of the Browns and continued that practice in Baltimore. He is in a wheelchair now but still attends practice two days a week. Lerner prefers being in the background, as he has since taking over the Browns from his late father in 2002. It doesn't mean he is less passionate, but some fans interpret his silence as not caring about what happens to the Browns. As bleak as things are right now, Lewis has not given up hope better days could be ahead. "We have a new coaching staff and new things going in," Lewis said. "That's not an excuse, but it does have to be taken into consideration. We have young players and young coaches new in their areas and certain things need to be handled in a different kind of way when it's like that."
Eat it Phil...
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Sounds like everyone is starting to pile on Mangini and management... this one isn't going to be pretty folks. On a side note, I wonder if Lewis would have enough accountability to bench himself. 
We're... we're good?
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Jamal's ready for the glue factory...but I think his quotes speak VOLUMES.
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Looks like we're finally going to see Harrison play as our #1 back.
Whatever BQ did to Napoleangini was at least within the confines of the organization. I guarantee this public turd he just dropped is not going to go unpunished.
Makes me really question Lewis' intelligence. I've always thought he was a little light in the smarts department but this is just plain dim witted.
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Quote:
Sounds like everyone is starting to pile on Mangini and management... this one isn't going to be pretty folks.
On a side note, I wonder if Lewis would have enough accountability to bench himself.
All I have to say is this:
It was nice knowing ya, Jamal.
In 2007 Lewis could break tackles. Now he's just a guy that is taken down by single tacklers virtually every time. He's finished as a feature back.
Regarding the tone and/or underlying message in the article, this is the same rhetoric that every team gets when they are in this position.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The only real message was a shot at Randy lerner and Browns fans. Look he knows how Modell is viewed here and it wasnt by accident he brought it up. He wants to be released and believes he can find a spot with the Eagles or Jets for a playoff run.
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If he thinks there's a snowballs chance in Hell that'll happen, he's even dumber than I thought, and I've never viewed Lewis as a rocket-scientist 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
He tried it last year, and was chastised by management for it.
My memory isn't perfect, but I don't remember him coming out and I don't remember him being chastised by anyone.. at least not publicly.
Besides, there is different managment in place... I'd think Mangini would want a strong locker room guy.. maybe I'm wrong..
Quote:
"I'm not saying that's lacking here, but at the same time, if you were to buy a business that isn't doing well, the first thing you need to look at is who is accountable for areas not doing well and handle it from there."
I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that was directed towards Daboll...
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Browns fans won't want to hear it and Lerner probably won't either, but Lewis said Modell is the reason the Ravens were and continue to be successful by setting up an organization and holding everyone in it accountable.
Bull, Modell got successful when he turned it over to Ozzie.. Ozzie put that front office together.
I think Mour may be right,, he wants out and he thinks this is the way to do it.. I wouldn't let him go,, I'd just bench him..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He might have taken a shot at Lerner but he did NOT take a shot at the fans! Grow up! He has played for 2 organizations and gave an example of how different they were. Yes, the Ravens have a better organizational structure than the Browns! So do the Steelers and about 25 other teams. And what he said is no different than what I and others have stated about Lerner for the last couple of years. Also, why is it when a player states the obvious, it should be discounted. When players spoke about Savage after the season, well that was thought to be just the players not knowing what they were talking about... Until everyone found out it was true! Please!! 
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So far Mangini has showed that if you want out, speak up, become a distraction and he will ship you off... K2, Edwards. If Jamal wants out, then this is brilliant. Next up: Cribbs 
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Two things stuck out to me.
"We have a new coaching staff and new things going in," Lewis said. "That's not an excuse, but it does have to be taken into consideration. We have young players and young coaches new in their areas and certain things need to be handled in a different kind of way when it's like that."
He finished it with this which I believe his Frustrations are real with the 1-6 but his dissatisfaction doesn't seem to be coming from the present staff.
2nd thing was this:
"and he won't go there. He tried it last year, and was chastised by management for it."
I think his bitterness or dissatisfaction comes from LAST YEAR.
As for the Randy Modell thing. If the difference is Randy coming to practice every day I'm sorry I don't see it. Its not like he gives the impression to the players that he doesn't care. Usually when there is somebody in trouble he's there to help. I know he did with William Green. KW2 also.
Sure in his Old age he tried to UNDO the deal he made with the Devil - but he won't make up enough for what he did - when he was younger he was the SNYDER of his day and meddled and guess what didn't bring a winner just took Paul Browns team in 64 and got his sole Championship....Of course he ran Paul Brown out of town. Came close with Marty playing two AFC Championship games to get into the SB...Of course he ran Marty out of Town too.
So Lewis was impressed with the OLD Modell looking for redemption. Sorry. As long as Randy cares...do the players really need to see his face everyday to make a difference?
Lewis sounds frustrated as would be expected. He's not bad in his last years now...but he's not a difference maker anymore.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
So far Mangini has showed that if you want out, speak up, become a distraction and he will ship you off... K2, Edwards.
If Jamal wants out, then this is brilliant.
Next up: Cribbs
Those two were gone anyway. Lewis is gone anyway because A) His contract is up, and B) He's finished as a full-time back, and since he can't catch, he's not even a good 3rd down back.
Cribbs is getting his new contract. That's in the works. He ain't going anywhere, which kinda defeats some of the innuendo.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Makes me really question Lewis' intelligence. I've always thought he was a little light in the smarts department but this is just plain dim witted.
why? He's a rich man and he's near the end of his career, he spent much of his last remaining years in the NFL on sucky teams with revolving leadership... He's frustrated, nobody that has ever played sports WANTS to be a part of something like this... especially when you have really successful years in your memory..
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I put it on management. I put it on my executives I'm paying the big bucks to. I put it on my executives and management and then everything trickles down to the employees.
Bingo!
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Curious we read different things into this. I think he's right at least as far as this organizations draft is concerned. It's our life blood but who is responsible for the guys we pick? Why do we draft stinkers every year? . Has ownership lived up to it's responsibility and forced the football people to analyze the process and install required changes? I doubt it. Well that didn't work, you pick'em this year seems to be our plan. Looks like draft cluster you know what to me If I were the owner I'd want to know WHY our second round went the way it did. Who was involved, everybody involved, down to the scouts.I'd demand an explanation from the football people and either justification or corrective action. If we keep drafting like we have, sub 6 win seasons are the future. 
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This is not good.
And by "this is not good" I mean, this could be alright.
Anything to get Mangini out of here.
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Quote:
"Everybody is accountable for something. I don't just put it on my employees. I put it on management. I put it on my executives I'm paying the big bucks to.
Maybe it's just my interpretation but I think this is the key right here... what it says to me is that Mangini is big on enforcing accountability from his players (the employees).. running laps for penalties, paying fines for water bottles, etc... but nobody is forcing accountability on HIM (and Kokinis, the management and executives) and they are not owning up to their OWN mistakes...
And I've worked in corporate environments before where employees were ridden hard but management did the same things and nobody said anything.. management even blamed their own mistakes on employees.. it's not a good environment to work... and Lewis probably saw this in the pressers with Mangini stating that he sees improvement and that DA is playing ok and all of the other crap he's been saying... If he said, "We suck, we aren't prepared week in and week out like we need to be and it's MY fault." Lewis might be ok with it... or heck, how about this, "We've traded away some of our better talent for future consideration, we knew it was going to be a short term struggle but the long term rewards could be great." Even THAT admission I wouldn't have a problem with...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Maybe it's just my interpretation but I think this is the key right here... what it says to me is that Mangini is big on enforcing accountability from his players (the employees).. running laps for penalties, paying fines for water bottles, etc... but nobody is forcing accountability on HIM (and Kokinis, the management and executives) and they are not owning up to their OWN mistakes...
I agree with this.
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe it's just my interpretation but I think this is the key right here... what it says to me is that Mangini is big on enforcing accountability from his players (the employees).. running laps for penalties, paying fines for water bottles, etc... but nobody is forcing accountability on HIM (and Kokinis, the management and executives) and they are not owning up to their OWN mistakes...
I agree with this.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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why? He's a rich man and he's near the end of his career, he spent much of his last remaining years in the NFL on sucky teams with revolving leadership... He's frustrated, nobody that has ever played sports WANTS to be a part of something like this... especially when you have really successful years in your memory..
Because he spends all of his time talking about how he's still got it in the tank; how he still wants to play and be the guy.
Well if you're on a team that's run by a dictator and you call him out - in front of everyone - then you guarantee that you won't play. He says he wants to play and then he does this. Not smart. Now if he really doesn't want to play and he's thinking "I'm rich, I'm at the end of my career and frustrated and I don't really care what anyone thinks," then fine. But that's not the message he's been putting out there all year.
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The problem with agreeing with the accountability/Mangini is that Mangini has put himself in a position where he can't be held accountable for this wreck. Simply, he can't right now. The only thing we can do structurally is to debate his rebuilding plan which is a the beginning stages. Each year, will add more accountability however, which is the point I have been trying to make on these boards for days now.
When you overhaul a product and basically throw away a year establishing your rule, you will not be good.
The main problem is, nobody wants to accept rebuilding and it shows. The Browns are alot like the 1996 Ravens and they didn't make the playoffs for another 4 years.
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Quote:
He says he wants to play and then he does this. Not smart.
He does want to play, just not here.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Two things stuck out to me.
"We have a new coaching staff and new things going in," Lewis said. "That's not an excuse, but it does have to be taken into consideration. We have young players and young coaches new in their areas and certain things need to be handled in a different kind of way when it's like that."
He finished it with this which I believe his Frustrations are real with the 1-6 but his dissatisfaction doesn't seem to be coming from the present staff.
2nd thing was this:
"and he won't go there. He tried it last year, and was chastised by management for it."
I think his bitterness or dissatisfaction comes from LAST YEAR.
As for the Randy Modell thing. If the difference is Randy coming to practice every day I'm sorry I don't see it. Its not like he gives the impression to the players that he doesn't care. Usually when there is somebody in trouble he's there to help. I know he did with William Green. KW2 also.
Sure in his Old age he tried to UNDO the deal he made with the Devil - but he won't make up enough for what he did - when he was younger he was the SNYDER of his day and meddled and guess what didn't bring a winner just took Paul Browns team in 64 and got his sole Championship....Of course he ran Paul Brown out of town. Came close with Marty playing two AFC Championship games to get into the SB...Of course he ran Marty out of Town too.
So Lewis was impressed with the OLD Modell looking for redemption. Sorry. As long as Randy cares...do the players really need to see his face everyday to make a difference?
Lewis sounds frustrated as would be expected. He's not bad in his last years now...but he's not a difference maker anymore.
JMHO
This I agree with.
I remember when Modell bought the Browns.
He was then and always will be a royal turd.
He meddeled in the team, fired the best coach I have ever seen in Paul Brown, forced the trade of Paul Warfield and other crap that is to numerous to mention.
HE RUINED THE BROWNS ORGANIZATION.
That is why they only won one championship after he arrived.
He knew NOTHING about football, and going out and shaking a few hands at practice will NEVER change my opinion of Modell.
I don't even want to get started on Al Lerner.
Whether people want to admit it or not, HE HELPED MODELL MOVE THE BROWNS.
I know Al is dead, God Rest His Soul, he brought the Browns back, but he is part of the problem that has continued since the Browns returned.
Randy hasn't helped, but this organization has been screwed up since 1999.
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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SPoonfed, Quote:
The problem with agreeing with the accountability/Mangini is that Mangini has put himself in a position where he can't be held accountable for this wreck. Simply, he can't right now. The only thing we can do structurally is to debate his rebuilding plan which is a the beginning stages. Each year, will add more accountability however, which is the point I have been trying to make on these boards for days now.
I disagree with this because if we had a owner that at minimum showed that he wanted the Browns to be successful, he would hold Mangini/Kokonis and everyone else accountable every week. I'm not saying I want our owner to be like J.Jones or D.Snydor but set up a structure where there are checks & balances in that organization. Learn enough about football where you can question the coach intelligently and then you can answer the critics who say your organization is not working correctly.
And if you look at what Lewis said, it starts from the top and trickles down. That is key in any successful organization, regardless of what industry.
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Quote:
Quote:
So far Mangini has showed that if you want out, speak up, become a distraction and he will ship you off... K2, Edwards.
If Jamal wants out, then this is brilliant.
Next up: Cribbs
Those two were gone anyway. Lewis is gone anyway because A) His contract is up, and B) He's finished as a full-time back, and since he can't catch, he's not even a good 3rd down back.
Cribbs is getting his new contract. That's in the works. He ain't going anywhere, which kinda defeats some of the innuendo.
I missed the confirmation that Cribbs' contract was being redone. Please give me the link b/c I missed it. Thanks.
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Mangini has put himself in a position where he can't be held accountable for this wreck.
I see it as the opposite. I think he's put himself in a position where he's the ONLY one accountable for this. These are his decisions and his players. Do I think this is the first stage of a process? Yes, but it's got his name all over it for better or worse.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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if we had a owner that at minimum showed that he wanted the Browns to be successful
What a load of crap. Are you saying that Lerner wants the Browns to be unsuccessful? Blame him for bad hires, but to say he doesn't WANT them to be successful is baseless. He's a businessman and it's in his best interests for his team to be successful. I'm pretty sure he knows that.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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My guess is that Dqwell is the next to go. He hasn't signed his contract extension yet and unless we Franchise him, I think he is good as gone. Not sure why he want to stay around. However if we ever had a player worth franchising, its DQ.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Thx for the article.
The day Mangini was hired,I vowed to myself that for the 2 or 3 years he would be here,I would just sit it out,let the little general do his thing.
Jamal Lewis is one of the very few professionals on this team,when he speaks,people should take note.
He's spot on with his remarks here.He's saying as an organization,the Browns suck.It starts with the absentee soccer dad as an owner,and filters down thru the present coaching staff.
Sadly,he will face some sort of retribution from the ego maniac in charge.I hope for his sake he does get sent to a winner.Out of all these misfits and ex-jets,he alone deserves another shot at a championship.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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He doesn't deserve anything more than anyone else on the team.
He signed a contract worth millions of dollars to play for a team.
Yes, he has played hard. But so have lots of other guys, and they have never won and Super Bowl (Lewis has won one.)
I agree with what Lewis has said. I don't think he is trying to get released or move to a better team this year.
Who's to say another team wants him anyway? He has looked pretty horrible this year, no matter how hard he has tried.
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What a load of crap. Are you saying that Lerner wants the Browns to be unsuccessful? Blame him for bad hires, but to say he doesn't WANT them to be successful is baseless. He's a businessman and it's in his best interests for his team to be successful. I'm pretty sure he knows that.
Well then he is not really concerned about how bad THIS PART of his business is doing. Look at it, he has had control of this team for how long, and how good has the team been during that time. He has hired 2 head coaches that basically wanted total control of the football operations so he did not have to worry about it. And how did that work out?? Lerner has hired football people who did not know what they were doing( Savage and the President who was fighting with Savage.. John ????). SO what are we left to think? That either Lerner does not know football and hires people that just sound good or Lerner does not really care or have a plan for this part of his operations!. Either way, it spells losses for the Browns.
How about setting up a structure with a team President who looks for a qualified GM. Then the GM gets a head coach. The head coach goes and get HIS assistants..etc. When that happens for the Browns under Lerner, let me know!
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You missed the part where I said he ia true professional.That is the essence of my post.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
I won't get into whether or not he cares, I just make the assumption that he does..... lots of people start and run businesses and care about them deeply and they fail anyway. The question with this business is, is it failing because the team is awful or is it failing because it's not profitable?... In business, success or failure is primarily about profit, not about product.
The simple fact is that Lerner has not hired the right people, in the right order, to run his business. I may be alone in this but I think he HAS hired some decent football people, just not in the right order and not with the right level of responsibility.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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If I read that right, then it's a case of structure. I don't know the best way to go about it, but I agree that you have to have the right people in the right places at the right time. Do you hire a president, who hires a GM, who then hires a coach? I think you definitely have to have people with similar philosophies on running the organization and building the team. It would seem that the business side of it should be separate from the football side, but they still have to work together to make it so the best players fit the economics of the cap. I really do think that one bad hire in any of these capacities can spell disaster. We talk about Lerner and head coaches on this board, but maybe not enough about the people in between. It looks so easy on the surface to try to mimic an organization like Pittsburgh or New England, but they've been able to hit the nail on the head with their hires. How many times do we hear that Paul Brown or Vince Lombardi couldn't win with this talent. We hear that Johhn Unitas or Joe Montana couldn't win with our offensive talent. There's enough blame to go around. I don't have a problem with Lerner not wanting to interfere, but that puts more pressure on him to get the right guys in place to build this organization. And the talent has been minimal for a long time. Does he have that in Kokinis and Mangini? On one hand they've gutted this roster to expansion quality. On the other hand, they've set things up to add so many quality players through FA and the draft in just one off season - if the FA money and draft picks are used wisely. This is the perfect situation for the right people to turn this team around and improve greatly by next season. My fear (and that of a lot of people) is whether or not Kokinis and Mangini can do it. If they do, then we'll look back and say, "Gee, they did have a good plan and executed perfectly." If not, we'll be saying, "How couldn't Lerner have seen that this was going to fail?" I think what makes it worse, is knowing the talent of coaches available in the upcoming off season. It's very tempting to act not so much because of what our current coach/gm are doing/not doing, but because of the potential of what those other guys COULD do. Do we stay the course and miss out on one of them, or do we act and make sure we get one? Unfortunately, only time will tell whether the decision we make is the right one. I need to end now as my fingers are getting sore from typing! 
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
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I don't really have a problem with anything Jamal said, I'd just put more stock into it if it came from someone who gets more than 50-60 yards per game as a feature back.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Dawg Talker
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Jamal is right...pretty ironic that EM is so harsh on any player that does any little thing wrong...yet he has made massive blunder after blunder since he's been here...but none of its his fault bnecause he inherited a bad team.  Thats what I believe lewis is ticked over, and he's smart enough not to say anything against EM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
I don't really have a problem with anything Jamal said, I'd just put more stock into it if it came from someone who gets more than 50-60 yards per game as a feature back.
If you need somebody with a good stat line to say something, then it better be the punter or Cribbs, because nobody else qualifies.. so you go with the next best thing, somebody who used to put up good numbers and knows what a winning organization looks like.. and that leaves Jamal.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Thanks Jamal...that needed to be said....
you think anybody on the team cares anymore? This team is dead and Mangini is already a lame duck....congrats
That's what I was asking for....ACCOUNTABILITY.
Just read my sig...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
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DJ - He took over a bad team, he gets pass on everything, for 2 years, you can't evaluate anything he's done because it was bad team, nothing is his fault. If it wasn't for us being a bad team he would have had a better draft, FA period, and hired better assistants. How dense are you....accountability is for winning teams only.
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