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j/c
So, do we read into the potential hire of some knowledgeable "president" that Lerner is apparently hot to trot for now, as similar to what is being done to Zorn and may be done to Kokinis first.
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j/c
So, do we read into the potential hire of some knowledgeable "president" that Lerner is apparently hot to trot for now, as similar to what is being done to Zorn and may be done to Kokinis first.
Zorn's situation is unique because Snyder and Vinny Cerrato publicly threw him under the bus. To bring in someone who was pulling bingo balls in Detroit to call the plays speaks wonders of how they felt Zorn was doing.
With Zorn and Washington and the entire Sherm Lewis situation, the results are tangible and will be felt on the field ASAP.
If the Browns fire Daboll and insert Kosar, it would be similar, minus the fact that Kosar hasn't been helping out at a senior home for the past four years. Still, Kosar has never called plays, let alone coach. You'd have to believe that Mangini wouldn't be on board with that, so it would kind of be the same thing.
If Daboll is fired and Carl Smith calls the plays, then its not that big of a story, in regards to comparing with a situation like Washington's. It's the same offense, the same scheme, but a different set of eyes in terms of play calling.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kokinis is fired now, but I don't think that's likely, simply because it's giving Mangini even more power, which Lerner obviously doesn't want at this time. My best guess is that any football related decision that isn't made this week WON'T be made by Lerner, but instead will be made by whomever he inserts into the Team President role.
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One of the more obvious things to me is that the Browns are too much Mangini's team, With 10 or so players from the Jets, the rationale that they know the system is a bit too much for me to stomach. Where is Kokinis to balance the player and roster moves?
The team traded Winslow, but did not replace him, most if not all of the other off season moves can be considered lateral, not improvement in any manner,
On top of this the QB situation is now a disaster.
The playcalling and offense is inept. I don't expect that to change.
I firmly believe that the disaster that has become the Browns needs to be resolved.
Resolving that means finding the GM and then having the GM hire the coach.
I would like to see someone from the west coast tree in here. It would give Quinn a chance to succeed.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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NRTU
If I thought firing yet another coach would improve the team I would be totally on board...
If history is to be our guide firing coaches and benching QB's does NOT work. And has not worked...........
What's missing here is TALENT. We lack it, we lose......
THE END
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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As I told everybody a while back when the Lerner bashing started. Randy does care, and he is paying attention. But did y'all listen to me?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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As I told everybody a while back when the Lerner bashing started. Randy does care, and he is paying attention. But did y'all listen to me?
Your grand daughter kept pulling your finger, we couldn't hear you!
#GMSTRONG
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One observer said head coach Eric Mangini after the game “felt as if the owner was looking over his shoulder.”
He should be idiot....1-7 he should be sticking his shoe up your behind. Hey Manginious, wanna know how to get a NFL owner off your back, 1. Resign, 2 WIN
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Weren't you all aboard the Mangini trade after we traded Braylon?
I was in favor of trading Braylon for over a year,even before Mangini was hired.
I was in favor of trading KW2 long before that.
Look on the bright side for 2010.......
A full war chest and 11 picks.
If some evaluations can be made in the meantime and younger players get experience,then that is all well and good.
This season was a loss from the beginning anyway. Maybe this disaster of a season could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
Taking off the orange glasses now..........
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I gotta say, I'm not surprised he is angry, I'm not even a little suprised he is came out in public, I AM surprised he did the stare down with the players in the tunnel.. Who knew he had a set   Couple of things stood out from the Mary Kay article.,.. Quote:
"I think I should evaluate me," he said, only half-jokingly.
That's what any good manager does. he looks internally first and then goes from there...He might have been half joking,, But I think by the rest of his comments, he's seeing the changes needed.
Like this one:
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But he did strongly indicate that it's time for him to bring in a football authority who can help straighten out this mess.
Enter Bernie Kosar....
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"There's absolutely no question about that," he said. "The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way.
Yes Randy,,, that would go a long way to lending cred to this organization..
Please, nobody else from the Belichick tree.. The leafs are turning colors and falling on the ground.... stop that train man...
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I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."
Bernie Kosar again.. when you think about it, what other football related figure in Cleveland history besides Paul Brown (and that ain't happenin) could command instant respect by the fans and media alike.. I can't think of one that has the chance of success.. I mean there are a few that could be the face,, Brian Sipe could do it, Ozzie Newsome could do it, But no matter what, I feel as if the only one that is out there that would have the best chance of success,,, Bernie Kosar...
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Ideally, Lerner said his person would be someone that's been groomed to do the job and has a vast amount of experience. He said the person may or may not already work for the Browns.
Sounds like he's either keeping his options open or just doesn't want to say who he wants to do the job... I don't think he's been "groomed" as Lerner says but, I'm sticking with Bernie.. that's my best guess.. Geez, didn't that take a ton of brain power  Next thing you know, I'll be doing draft picks... ......... nevermind.. 
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He admitted that the whole quarterback fiasco "doesn't look sensible." As to why the Browns have been so reluctant to play Brady Quinn, he said "I haven't been told about anything."
Much as I suspected, he didn't care about the 11 million bucks.. he wants to win and will pay the player that gets it done.. All the hoopla that it's all about the 11 million is just that,, hoopla.. Media contrived bull...
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Lerner made it clear several times during the short interview that he wanted time to gather his thoughts and that he wasn't really ready to elaborate on his mindset. He said he wanted "a day or two to wrap my mind around it. There's a lot going on right now."
Smart move.... get your hands around this and make decisions based on the best things you know.. not when you are angered...
I really like Randy Lerner,, been saying that for a while., He's like anyone else in that position, you do your homework, get advice from those that SHOULD be in the know and then pull the trigger... Sometimes that works out, other times, you get what we have.
My Prediction:
Mangini lasts the year.. and if no improvement occures, he's gone 15 minutes after the last game.
Daboll is gone no matter what happenes.
Bernie takes over as President of the club officially on January 4th but he'll be in the drivers seat as soon as Randy can work the deal with him.
I'm thinking it might include a company jet to wisk him to florida at moments notice..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All good points but remember the NFL is a copycat league.
My money is on Schottenheimer.
First Bernie while we all love him hasn't done anything in the NFL accept announce preseason games since his playing days. Schotts has all the credentials and a son poised to take over an NFL team at some point.
Lerner can easily see that making Parcells the executive vice president of football operations in Miami has turned their program around and did it quickly. I can see Lerner making that same logic leap to validate Schotts for the position.
#GMSTRONG
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As possible as any other scenario.. Sure, I could see that as a possibility.
But I also see where Lerner has done the copy cat thing already (going after Belichick clones and branches) and may say,, you know, that didn't work out well,,
Dunno which way it will go, but I'm sticking to Mangini will be gone unless a sudden and very positive turnaround happens the rest of this year..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Lerner hires a Prez (outside of Bernie) from another organization that guy is going to want to bring in people he's familiar with. Unless it's the guy from Pitt (who might like the chin) he's going to bring in somebody he's familiar w Hith. That's what all the "mangini isn't going to be fired" folks don't get. Once Lerner started talking about bring in a real Prez the writing was on the wall for this FO. Whoever it is is going to want HIS people, and Mangini doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who you can pull the reigns of power in on him............it won't work, and that's the main reason he will be gone.
Should it not be obvious this is the way it should have been and RL is finally learning this?
Lerner is learning.... 
This way he doesn't have to do the interviewing..etc...the president will take care of everything..and it sounds like someone is already tipping him off what to do.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/02/09 09:40 AM.
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Sorry but getting a guy to come in here and work perfectly with Mangini aint gonna happen! Heck, nobody seems to like the guy and by keeping him only narrows the field of good prospects willing to work above him!
Presumably whoever came in here would have the option, if he couldn't work with Mangini, get rid of him... if the person brought in can't make a coaching change, then what is the use of bringing in somebody else?
yebat' Putin
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All good points but remember the NFL is a copycat league.
Yes it is... now figure this.... The Titans were 0-6 going into their bye week... the owner publicly ripped the organization and demanded changes... after the bye week they changed QBs came out and ripped through the Jaguars with great rushing and efficient passing and good defense... think Lerner saw something to try to copycat? 
That was the Jags so I'm not saying that his little tyrade is going to lead us to ripping through the Steelers on MNF but if it gets some guys riled up, then I'm all for it.
Aside from just looking awful on the field, I think this came about for a variety of reasons..
1. Lewis speaking out publicly about accountability.
2. Threat of an embarrasing event on MNF.
3. The jokes on sportscenter like, "We only show Browns highlights because we have to." and other comments like in the postgame when Shannon Sharpe asked Esiason, "If you were in charge of the Browns, what would you do?" and he said quickly, "Fire the coach." ... those comments are all over the media and they are getting back to Lerner
In short, he needs to be seen as an "in touch" owner that is willing to do something. He needs that for himself and he needs that for the few decent players we do have that he hopes to keep. And he needs that for any FA's that we hope to attract and future draft picks we hope to sign...
He needs to pull Mangini into his office today and ask him two questions. You said we could win with the talent we had, not only aren't we winning, we look awful, what happened? and How are you going to fix it?
yebat' Putin
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if the person brought in can't make a coaching change, then what is the use of bringing in somebody else?
There would be no point.
There are some serious meetings going on this morning in Berea, I imagine: ass-covering and authority issues galore. Coaches with coaches, coaches with GM, GM with owner.... owner with coaches.
If Lerner hires a czar... one or both of Kokinis/Mangini will be out the door. Guaranteed.
Last edited by lampdogg; 11/02/09 09:54 AM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Go get the czar Randy. Don't make the mistakes you've made before.... you don't have alot of competition right now...call Marty, Holmgren, Colbert....while your the only one looking. Don't wait until the offeseason to start the presidental search, so they don't get behind in getting us a GM, and coach. Please Randy get it right this time. 
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He needs to pull Mangini into his office today and ask him two questions. You said we could win with the talent we had, not only aren't we winning, we look awful, what happened? and How are you going to fix it?
The reality is Gini can't do much..he and Kokopuffs(Mourg that was great!) bought the draft picks..Gini brought the FA's in...the only change on offense you can make is Quinn..there are no other recievers..save Robo..did he play yesterday????
No other RB's to use..no other linemen to use...
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Please Randy get it right this time.
I don't think there ever was a time where I questioned his desire to get it right.. not once.. But the results have not matched the desire so far.. hopefully, this time will be THE time....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
Coach Sam was fired after a 1-7 start.
Marty went 4-4 down the stretch.
Just sayin'.
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I'm pretty sure I saw Robo almost get hit in the ankle by a DA pass yesterday at some point.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
if the person brought in can't make a coaching change, then what is the use of bringing in somebody else?
There would be no point.
There are some serious meetings going on this morning in Berea, I imagine: ass-covering and authority issues galore. Coaches with coaches, coaches with GM, GM with owner.... owner with coaches.
If Lerner hires a czar... one or both of Kokinis/Mangini will be out the door. Guaranteed.
I see the need for Lerner to hire what is known in political circles as a "Corporate Killer" with nothing to do but sit around and watch football operations. It shouldn't necessarily be someone hired just to take out Mangini but it should be someone who knows what a winner really looks like.
Then they call in Mangini to meet the New Guy... the scene is in Lerner's office. Lerner seated at a desk, there is plastic sheeting on the floor in front of the desk.
Lerner: "Eric, come in! Don't mind the plastic on the floor. We're doing some work in the office and don't want to mess up the rugs."
Mangini: "Sure, uhh, Mr. Lerner, about the team..."
Lerner:"Don't worry about it. I've got it all under control. I have someone you need to meet. It's my new "President" (laughing) of Football Operations."
[A very serious looking fellow steps up behind Mangini, who is standing on the plastic.]
Mangini: (Sweating profusely)
President of Football: "Pleased to meet you, Eric. I'm sure we'll be spending some time together real soon."
(Mangini leaves the room)
Lerner: "What's up with him? He nearly passed out. Say, where are those darned painters? They were supposed to be done over the weekend."
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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The reality is Gini can't do much..he and Kokopuffs(Mourg that was great!) bought the draft picks..Gini brought the FA's in...the only change on offense you can make is Quinn..there are no other recievers..save Robo..did he play yesterday????
No other RB's to use..no other linemen to use...
I know that. If Mangini has a plan to make us better in the next few weeks, I'd probably laugh if I heard it.
I would like an answer to the first question.. did you expect us to be this BAD before we got better? How did we get HERE?... and the How are you going to fix it question.. that would definitely involve current personnel that he thinks he can work with, what his draft strategy is, what his FA strategy is, etc... The plan should go through the draft and next year as well..
yebat' Putin
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I know you knmow what I think you know.. 
I'm just thinking out loud,..but..but one could can Daboll..but then who's calling the plays??
Ryan...I don't have a problem with him yet.. did you expect us to be this BAD before we got better? How did we get HERE?... and the How are you going to fix it question.. that would definitely involve current personnel that he thinks he can work with, what his draft strategy is, what his FA strategy is, etc... The plan should go through the draft and next year as well.. Yes I agree with the questions, I was just responding there isn't much to be done now..
Well lets put it in perspective DC...as much as some want to say Gini was open with him he wasn't ...soooo if Lerner feels he was lied to or worse that the plan blew up in dudes mug..can he feel that Genuis can really fix it?
Lets see..no one until now has held him accountable..the GM is a puppet head so we really don't know if he's got any skills...so lets say Lerner rolls with him another year,(at this point I doubt it)..someone is going to be in position to make Genuis account for what he does next and that includes FA and draft.
I don't trust him to make the correct choices..I really don't..
They can't squander all those picks..man if they do this team is really finished..
He gave Gini too much power to start with..he's got to strip him of something if he remains.
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My Prediction:
Mangini lasts the year.. and if no improvement occures, he's gone 15 minutes after the last game.
Daboll is gone no matter what happenes.
Bernie takes over as President of the club officially on January 4th but he'll be in the drivers seat as soon as Randy can work the deal with him.
I'm thinking it might include a company jet to wisk him to florida at moments notice..
I agree with most of this, except I think that if Lerner and Kosar reach a deal about becoming Team President this week, then he'll be Team President this week. I don't think Lerner waits until the end of the year to announce it, especially with the way he reacted publicly after the game. The majority of people now expect something to be done this week, and would be rather disappointed if the week passed and nothing occurred.
Like I said earlier, I think if nothing happens on that front this week, then Daboll is gone and Carl Smith takes over. That's the least we can expect.
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Lerner speaks!!......I love it.  I guess it's safe to say that we'll see some changes real soon,..I can see Daboll getting the boot real quick just to make the club look pro-active. A team president may take a little more time and I don't think that Bernie has anywhere near the qualifications to take on that responsibility,...I do like him being close to the team though. I think it was Clemdawg who said it best,...that getting a team President in here to evaluate the second half of the season would be the best approach,....I agree. The one guy I like and who's also been mentioned is Marty, he's already stated that he's not interested in coaching but a FO position may be possible for him. The big knock against Marty is he doesn't always play well with others. If he answers to Lerner only I see no problems with him coming back to Cleveland. I know Marty has no experience other than coaching, but if there's a guy out there ready to take on a bigger role,..it's gotta be him. The one positive you get with Marty immediately is RESPECT.
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j/c
Coach Sam was fired after a 1-7 start.
Marty went 4-4 down the stretch.
Just sayin'.
so we bring in Marty and we go 4 and 4 down the stretch beating the Raders,KC and the Sunshine Band, Jacksonville and Detroit.
Do we annoint Marty as saviour?
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I keep seeing mention of Bernie running the team. I hate that plan. I love everything he did as a player but he has no experience running an NFL franchise. If your going to do it then do it right. To me hiring Bernie to do a job he isn't qualified to do is just repeating the same mistake over and over again.
Find a guy who knows how to run a team and knows how to pick talent. Then let him work with Mangini the rest of the season. Take the year to evaluate the coaching staff and players. Then let him sit down and make the smart football decisions at the end of the season.
That guy is not and should not be Bernie!!!
Lerner keeps repeating the Patriot way. I think he should repeat the Dolphin way of doing things. Find a guy like Parcells and let him run the day to day operations. Let him make a decision on a GM and HC. Then let the 3 of them get together and work on fixing the team.
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jc...
To me the Lerner display was him showing Lewis he's there and he isn't happy. And to shut up... I don't think any owner likes getting called out from a poor performing player that he pays millions to. The "death stare" was meant for Lewis and any other players/coaches that feel the same way as him.
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You know, as much as I love Bernie, I'm not sure I'd want him calling the shots. Could he end up being great? Sure. But it would make me feel a lot more comfortable to bring in someone who has experience with these things.
Maybe give Bernie a position where he can learn and maybe take over some day.
For some reason, I keep thinking Holmgren.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Mangini sounds like such a ... to work with, I'm not so sure there is a big name experienced person out there willing to work with Mangini. If they brought in Holmgrem, I could see him firing Mangini from the get go.
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so lets say Lerner rolls with him another year,(at this point I doubt it)..someone is going to be in position to make Genuis account for what he does next and that includes FA and draft.
I don't trust him to make the correct choices..I really don't..
They can't squander all those picks..man if they do this team is really finished..
That's pretty much it in a nutshell... Firing him now or at the end of the season really doesn't matter to me.... but this team has enough draft picks and cap space that it could REALLY take a giant leap forward in one offseason.. (it might not show up immediately as draft picks need some time but we could set ourselves up for the long haul)... if we blow it, we could easily suck for 4 or 5 more years...
So Randy really has to have a comfort level with whoever is making those decisions... is it Mangini? I honestly don't know. At this point I can say that I'd have a hard time trusting him to do it...
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I'm personally in favor of someone like Rich McKay, who understands the nuances of the NFL, can hire a staff that will adjust to those nuances, and then let them go to work while providing valuable supervision.
Bernie is a great asset to our franchise and is obviously the hometown hero. He's an extremely smart individual. I hope he gets into coaching. But the closest thing he's got to saying he could run an NFL team is what he did for a season with those Cleveland Gladiators of the now defunct Arena League. No need to say this out loud, but the NFL is just a tad different.
The Browns currently have Mike Keenan as their "Team President," but he only handles business operations, and defaults all football decisions to (technically) Kokinis, and (reality) Mangini. I honestly believe that Lerner thought Kokinis would be in charge of assembling the team, while Mangini coached when he hired the two. Whoops. That's one of the reasons why Lerner called out Kokinis yesterday, admitting that he has NO IDEA of what he does. That's sad.
So, Keenan would probably get his title changed to "Director of Business Operations," or something of the sort. Whoever is brought in as Team President would be in charge of the ENTIRE football operations. I would assume the structure of those operations would be up to him. Do you hire a GM and a coach? Do you just hire a coach and act as the GM yourself?
Either way, you can be completely assured that if we do hire someone, whether its now with Bernie, or at the end of the year with anyone else, Mangini and Kokinis are gone. That's just the way it will be. The Team President will want his own guys in there, and there aren't too many people around the league that love Mangini - and that was before the 1-7 start.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
Quote:
Coach Sam was fired after a 1-7 start.
Marty went 4-4 down the stretch.
Just sayin'.
Not saying it can't happen, I just don't believe it will and Randy is quoted as saying as much in the Cabot article...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198 |
I would much rather have Newsome over Marty as the Team President. The little tidbit you Marty supporters are forgetting is that Lerner said he would prefer a "young" up and comer. My guess is that eliminates Marty, Parcells, etc. My guess is that he will lean on Ernie Accorsi to help him find his guy.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83 |
Quote:
I would much rather have Newsome over Marty as the Team President. The little tidbit you Marty supporters are forgetting is that Lerner he said he would prefer a "young" up and comer. My guess is that eliminates Marty, Parcells, etc. My guess is that he will lean on Ernie Accorsi to help him find his guy.
Newsome is quoted as saying he's retiring with the Ravens. As nice as it would be to have a current team executive to come over here and run the show, it would be a long, long, loooooong shot for that to happen. Especially thinking that we could take someone out of a powerful position on a great team, and have them come preside over the mess that is our franchise right now.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Quote:
Coach Sam was fired after a 1-7 start.
Marty went 4-4 down the stretch.
Just sayin'.
Not saying it can't happen, I just don't believe it will and Randy is quoted as saying as much in the Cabot article...
I know.
And for the love of God I'm not talking about bringing in Marty midseason. I'm saying that a coaching change midseason HAS been successful before.
What really bugs me is that we're playing like the 2008 Rams...that's a team that quit on their coach.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
I would much rather have Newsome over Marty as the Team President. The little tidbit you Marty supporters are forgetting is that Lerner said he would prefer a "young" up and comer. My guess is that eliminates Marty, Parcells, etc. My guess is that he will lean on Ernie Accorsi to help him find his guy.
Browns fans need to forget about Newsome, he's staying in Baltimore for the rest of his career.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198 |
Newsome should stay in Baltimore..just saying I prefer him over Marty. I prefer Parcells over anyone actually. But I don't see that happening either.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
What I think happens..Lerner hires a president who then tells him what he wants to do about the chain of command ..he'll either say I already know who we should go after, or we'll search ..or we'll give him one year to fix it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
j/k
Lets not get ahead of yourselves, we've gotten Randys attention, let's not start firing people for him or hiring people for him, we always end up wrong & disapointed, (Wow like that hasnt happened before to us Browns Fans).
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lerner Lashes out at Team
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