DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland

Nah deep it isn't true......Mangini is still God and running the organization with an iron fist (and into the ground). Go to bed and sleep tight all is well [/sarcasm]

I'm not a big Mangini fan anymore. The more that comes out the more I dislike. I'm not gonna go as far as many others have though. But I'm not a fan of Accorsi (okay if it's short term) and I want no part of Bernie as GM.

Bernie has no experience scouting, and he doesn't have the contacts needed to be successful. He has a great knowledge of the game and he's smart, but I don't see him having what's needed.

I also don't see why he'd want any part of the job. Right now he gets to stay on in the thick of things without any real responsibility or possibility of criticism.

Then there's also the fact that when he'd screw up (and he would, as all GM's do) it would be tough on fans. We all love Bernie, and it would really suck if he didn't do well. He's where he needs to be right now, and that's as an adviser to Lerner.

Just curious as to why you don't like Accorsi?

By all accounts, he is EXACTLY what we need.

For one he recommended Kokinis. I actually think Kok could be successful somewhere, but it sounds like him and Manigni clashed.

He's too old school. He was a GM in the 80's and early 90's. A lot of things have changed since then. I don't see someone from that far back being successful.

Acorsi is the guy I wanted, but didn't think we could lure him out of retirement. The only problem I have with all of this is how long does he stay??? I want AT LEAST 2 years of OJT with Acorsi before I am ready to let Bernie sniff the GM job. Noway is this guy ready to be GM in 2010.

I actually would love to have Acorsi as president, and him hire a GM, and then the GM take out the trash. However, it's hard to find fault in bringing in our 1st decision maker who has had real success in this league (and sorry 9-7 twice doesn't count). I would have done it differently, but considering we finally got someone who has built a championship caliber team on 2 seperate occasions it's hard to criticize the move.

The only negative is if he's just here until 2010, and then Bernie takes over..........that wouldn't be smart. Bernie needs at least 2 years before he's ready........at least.

You know that team in NY (psst.......where you have all your sources) that one the SB a couple of years ago.........Acorsi built that team. He's only been out of the game for about 5 years, and has built championship caliber teams wherever he has went........he's exactly what we've been waiting for.

I agree with you about Bernie though.........he definitly needs AT LEAST 2 years of Acorsi mentoring him.

Mortenson reports via Twitter that Accorsi is being consulted by Lerner, but is NOT the Cleveland Browns interim GM. He is simply a consultant, and will not act in day-to-day role of GM.

I guess I didn't realize how recently he'd been active. That Eli trade wasn't the best move ever though, was it? I'll do some more research before I make a decision, but he's already retired. I prefer to let those guys stay that way.

The guy has never been anywhere where he didn't field championship caliber teams. I would venture to guess that a good bit of those core guys that won the championship in NY was brought in by Acorsi. He also built the 2000 Giant team that went to the SB.

My only concern is how long is he here, and what he does about Mangini.

I knew it was to good to be true...lol. I just have a hard time seeing Ernie coming out of retirement to take over this mess.

I'm not gonna pretend I know enough front office guys to make a real educated plan. But we need to get the right guy in charge. Bernie can't be that guy as much as Browns fans would want him to be, and I've stated my thoughts on Accorsi, though I need to do more research. We just need to find the Bill Polian, the Jerry Reese, or the Ozzie Newsome to be in charge. I'd prefer it be the FO guy in charge, but it can work either way. Parcells is the one guy that I know of whom I'd like to see in Cleveland. I wouldn't mind Cowher, but he wouldn't be willing to work under a President or GM.

We just need to find the right guys. All there is to it.

Bernie better not be the GM.

I want him to have a role in hiring the GM and the coach, but I don't want him to HAVE that role.

Bernie as a GM at this point would be horrible and ridiculous, but I don't think it's actually happening.

Unless we're starting to become like the raiders where no self-respecting person from the outside want's to come in anymore...but i don't think that's the case.

~Lyuokdea

Well this is a step in the right direction but still doesn't solve the biggest problem - Mangini.

I'll remain pessimistic about the future until he's gone.

I have no problem with Ernie Accorsi. He hasn't been out the game that long (he was the Giants GM until 2006) and he has a history of building winning football teams (the Giants from 1998-2006 and the Browns from 1985 to 1992.)

When he was previously GM of the Browns from 1985 to 1992 the teams record was 65-61-1 with five playoff appearances. Not great, but much better than we are used to. I can't really comment on his drafts as Browns GM because I was too young to really remember much from that era. Maybe someone else can take a look those drafts and make a comment.

With the Giants he went 73-71 with four playoff appearances and one Super Bowl appearance. He drafted Joe Jurevicius, Luke Petitgout, Dhani Jones, Will Allen, Jeremy Shockey, David Diehl, Visanthe Shiancoe, Osi Umenyiora, Gibril Wilson, Chris Snee, Phillip Rivers (then traded for Eli Manning), Brandon Jacobs, Justin Tuck, Corey Webster, Barry Cofield, and Mathias Kiwanuka. That's a pretty impressive list.

We'll see what happens, if anything at least he will get everything in order. In New York, Jim Fassel was in place as head coach when Accorsi was hired, then fired Fassel and hired Tom Coughlin. In Cleveland he kept Schottenheimer after he was the interim coach in 1984. He then replaced Schottenheimer with Bud Carson and later replaced him with Bill Belichick.

I think having Accorsi around in any capacity is a positive.

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He's too old school. He was a GM in the 80's and early 90's. A lot of things have changed since then.

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Ya alot of things have changed... The Browns from back then would own the AFC North today.

Has Accorsi's role been determined yet? Everything I read is that Lerner was trying to get him last year but couldn't edge him out of retirement for a full time gig, theres no way the current setting was enough to "lure" him away from retirement right?

Browns GM Kokinis ousted

By Chris Mortensen and Adam Schefter
ESPN

George Kokinis is out as general manager of the Cleveland Browns after less than one year on the job. The manner in which he will make his official exit was in dispute Monday, according to team and league sources.

Kokinis refused to resign when pressed by owner Randy Lerner, who then persisted in seeking a dismissal "for cause," citing Kokinis for failing to meet the specific standards as dictated by his contract, the sources said. The team's security and legal department were reviewing phone records to build its case against Kokinis, a team source said.

There also were discussions of whether the two sides could reach a financial settlement, sources said.

Multiple media reports initially reported Kokinis had been fired.

Television station WKYC and the Cleveland Plain Dealer first reported Monday night that Kokinis was ushered out of the Berea facility by security around lunchtime Monday.

In a statement, the Browns said: "Cleveland Browns general manager George Kokinis is no longer actively involved with the organization. In response to rumors and reports that Kokinis was escorted out of the building today, the Browns deny those reports. In the interest of protecting the parties involved we will withhold further comment."

Dialogue between the two sides actually occurred for the past week before Sunday's 30-6 loss to the Bears sent the Browns reeling into the bye week with a 1-7 record. For the past month, Lerner has independently investigated professional and personal conduct by Kokinis, head coach Eric Mangini and director of football operations Erin O'Brien, who left the organization within the past few days, sources said. Mangini said Monday he had spoken with Lerner and was told his job was safe for now.

Lerner told the media after Sunday's defeat that changes were coming.

Ernie Accorsi, former general manager of the New York Giants, Baltimore Colts and Browns, is being sought by Lerner as a consultant, a league source said. Accorsi could not be reached for comment. Accorsi has served in a consulting capacity on numerous occasions for teams and has an alliance with former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar, who was hired by Lerner as a consultant on Oct. 17.

Kokinis was brought in to lead the team after the Browns had hired Mangini, who coached last year with the New York Jets. It's the first major change for a Browns team that has struggled in all aspects of the game. Lerner said Sunday night he is "sick" about the state of his NFL team but he will not make a coaching change.

Lerner told the Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon-Journal on Sunday he would like to bring in a "strong, credible, serious leader" to help run his team.

Lerner did not expand on who that person might be or if that person currently worked for the Browns.

"The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way," Lerner said Sunday, according to the Plain Dealer. "I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."

Mangini said he would be open to such a hire.

"If you can add quality people that can help you get better, then you do that," Mangini said. "You're always searching for those opportunities."

Kokinis was supposed to be that person. Mangini handpicked him to be the team's GM -- both began their careers in Cleveland in the early 1990s when Bill Belichick was coaching the Browns.

Link

NRTU

We never should have fired RAC, period.

I knew it when it happened, and now I know it for a fact. Yes we should have fired PS he was a slug, but RAC no way. Now if we were going to fire someone, which by all appearances Randy was hell bent to do why fire GK? The product we see on the field is 100% Mangini, and we fire the GM?

By no stretch am I saying GK didn’t deserve to be fired but how can you fire GK and not Mangini? I just don’t get it, and I guess I never will…. Put me down as very puzzled by this move…

The one good thing I guess that will come out of this is that we won’t likely be taking on anymore Jet castoffs….

JMHO

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Mangini HIRED Kokinis.


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Nope. Lerner did through Ernie's advice. But the problem was, Koko didn't like playing Pioli to Mangini's Belicheck and quit doing his job.

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I'm trying to figure out why you think you can just make stuff up and nobody on here will catch you...

Thank you for posting that stuff Bat.. I don't know who this spoonfed guy is,, nor to I really care, but with under a hundred posts, and to come on that strong, smells a lot like,,, well, I think he smells like... TROLL

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Now if we were going to fire someone, which by all appearances Randy was hell bent to do why fire GK? The product we see on the field is 100% Mangini, and we fire the GM?

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At first it kinda struck me as odd also. I mean, the HC is responsible for what happens on the field right? So why fire the GM?

I think that if any part of what is coming out now is true, Kokinis was not really involved. He was a name on the door with a title and a paycheck (probably a good one)

SO if that's the case, maybe what happened (and I'm just guessing here) is that Randy called George in and said,, hey, what the hell is going on and when he dug into it, he found that Kokinis was an empty suit.. and then he fired him on the spot.

I'm just guessing here.. I have no particular or intimate knowledge.. Just a guess.

While Kokinis has his skeptics, former Browns GM Accorsi is a big booster
SOURCE: Cleveland Plain Dealer
By Jamie Turner
January 07, 2009, 7:01PM

CLEVELAND --- If the Browns indeed pair up new coach Eric Mangini with GM candidate George Kokinis, they will be seeking to duplicate the success enjoyed by the Atlanta Falcons this year.
Atlanta turned around its fortunes in one year with a young, rookie general manager at the helm. Thomas Dimitroff, 43, was an out-of-left field candidate to reshape the Falcons and now he is taking bows for transforming them from 4-12 to 11-5 in one year.

Kokinis, 41, the Baltimore Ravens pro personnel director, is the hand-picked choice of Mangini to be the next Browns general manager.

The Browns have interviewed Patriots vice president of personnel Scott Pioli and have received permission to interview Eagles General Manager Tom Heckert. But many consider a Mangini-Kokinis pairing to be a fait accompli because of the strong relationship they've had over the years.

They were among the hungry and driven entry-level staffers who worked essentially as gofers for Bill Belichick in his five seasons as Browns coach in the early 1990s.


Pioli was part of the group. So was Mike Tannenbaum, who eventually became Jets GM. So was Phil Savage, the recently fired Browns GM.

When Belichick was fired by Art Modell after the 1995 season, most of his staff moved to Baltimore. Kokinis is the only one from that pack still with the Ravens.

Mangini tried to hire him with the Jets on at least two occasions. But because Tannenbaum held the top football authority with the Jets, the Ravens had the right to block a lateral move for Kokinis.

Kokinis could only join the Browns as GM or similar position, contractually assured the final say on all football decisions.

Is he ready for that?


One veteran NFL executive said, "Hiring a GM is like drafting a quarterback. You bring in a rookie and, unfortunately, there's a learning curve in the NFL. I think it just depends on how much a learning curve you want to go through."
Another veteran NFL executive said, "He's really less prepared [than Savage] because he's only doing pro personnel."

Savage held the title of director of player personnel with Baltimore, which meant he directly supervised the Ravens' college scouting and pro scouting departments. When Savage left in 2005 for the Browns' job, the Ravens did not fill his job. Kokinis (pro personnel) and Eric DeCosta (director of college scouting) merely reported directly to General Manager Ozzie Newsome.

"You look at the Ravens and they're built through the draft, not through free agency," observed one source.

Also, Dimitroff, the model in Atlanta, served five years as Belichick's director of college scouting with New England before making the jump to GM. Kokinis has been in the Ravens' pro personnel department for nine years -- six as director -- after working as a college scout for four years.

Ernie Accorsi offers a different opinion.

The former Browns executive -- now retired after building the New York Giants championship team -- served as a consultant for the Falcons last year when owner Arthur Blank went looking to rebuild his football operation.

"My three recommendations were Dimitroff, Tom Heckert and Kokinis," Accorsi said. "Blank really loved Dimitroff and hired him before interviewing Kokinis."

It turns out that Accorsi -- and not Belichick -- was the man responsible for bringing Kokinis to Cleveland in 1991. Kokinis had been a baseball graduate assistant at University of Richmond when Accorsi's godson played for the team. Accorsi gave Kokinis an entry level job in the Browns' operations department. After Accorsi left the following year, Belichick took Kokinis under his large wing.

"Everybody fell in love with him," Accorsi said of Kokinis, who was 24 at the time. "Hard worker, smart, a great kid. Now, over the years, I'd lost touch with him. But through my scouts [with the Giants], I got to know of him well. I'd ask about him all the time, and everybody liked him. Ozzie was really high on him."

Accorsi debunks the theory that a general manager is best qualified coming through the scouting ranks, since the draft is the lifeblood of the NFL.

"Number one, I think he did plenty of college scouting," Accorsi said. "Number two, [former NFL executive and Hall of Famer] Jim Finks always told me that for the GM job, it's more important to have a pro personnel background.

"His reasoning was you always have time to prepare for the draft. What's more important is to know the league, not only the players but what it takes to play in the league. The NFL game changes, positions change. The coaches know the league and the pro personnel guys know the league. A lot of the college scouts, they don't see the NFL games much.

"Listen, it's the person that matters, but you're better off being a pro guy because you're going to know the league. You can always get ready for the draft. Finks would preach, 'Look at pro tape, look at pro tape.'"

Newsome said he would not even entertain questions about Kokinis while he is going through the Browns' interview process.

Another NFL team executive summed up Kokinis this way: "He's a real good guy and works 24 hours a day. He's one of those guys that sleeps in the office."

Accorsi thinks Kokinis is ready to make the jump.

"The more research I did, the more I was convinced of it," Accorsi said. "He works like hell. He's a great guy. But you never know. These jobs can change people because the pressure and scrutiny is so great


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/while_kokinis_has_his_skeptics.html

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Accorsi thinks Kokinis is ready to make the jump.

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and you know what, maybe that's what Accorsi thought then,, would he feel that way now? that article was written almost a year ago.. things change.

I have little doubt that Accorsi recommended him and maybe a few others like he did with Atlanta, but I have to believe he was a shoe in because of Mangini.

On another note, I was just listening to Channel 3 morning show and the guy on there just said that Accorsi is being brought in... I can find no other confirmation on this.. did anyone else see it anywhere

NEVER MIND,, I found it;

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Accorsi could be brought into bigger role with Browns
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist

POSTED: 10:12 p.m. EST, Nov 02, 2009

Here's another name to keep in mind as the Browns reshape their future.
Ernie Accorsi has been in touch with Browns owner Randy Lerner in the past week or two. Accorsi has been offering advice and help as Lerner tries to right his organization after a brutally bad first half of the season.
It's very possible and likely that Lerner would ask Accorsi — formerly a general manager of the New York Giants and Browns — to become more involved with the team on a full-time basis.
It's not known if Accorsi would take a full-time job, or if he would act as a consultant. But Accorsi and former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar have a relationship dating to Kosar's playing days.
Kosar has already been brought into the team as a consultant.
Accorsi was GM of the Giants from 1998-2007 and with the Browns from 1985 to 1992. He retired after the 2007 season, but was consulted by Lerner when he hired Eric Mangini as coach and George Kokinis as GM in January.
Kokinis' last day as GM of the Browns was Monday, though it's not clear if he was fired or resigned.

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I would sincerely hope that if Acorsi is the new GM or interim GM, he stays for no less than 2 years.

I don't know what went on that would give rise to the "with cause" statement but it really seems that the moves that were made were not done right. In other words, it almost seems as if someone was lowballing the Browns.

I am really interested in hearing how Kokinis can be fired "with cause." This isn't harassment as Ytown speculated, it HAS to be how the organization was being run.

As far as we know, he could have been doing something . . . shady . . .

nrtu

I'm going to step out on a limb here, and suggest that Kokinis firing was not a knee jerk reaction that many here think, and may be totally unrelated to Mangini and/or the teams performance.

An article up above somewhere suggests they had been looking at Kokinis for the past week or more, so I think there was more here than simple team performance issues.

Well well welll....U and I talked about the possible names...and I said Acorsi wouldn't come..nice to be wrong..so he is mentoring Bernie..I seriously doubt Kosar will be actively doing what we think he might do..however he could oversee the scouting and actual selections..
Acorsi could stay with the FO for a while...and we could see him move up to president..or something like that..
Interesting post that KoKopuffs didn't know of the Edwards trade..that dude really wanted out..
I was a bit surprised he was let go this fast but the talk by Lerner centered on him first..why he hasn't been visible..now we know...