|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
An article up above somewhere suggests they had been looking at Kokinis for the past week or more, so I think there was more here than simple team performance issues.
"For the past month, Lerner has independently investigated professional and personal conduct by Kokinis, head coach Eric Mangini and director of football operations Erin O'Brien, who left the organization within the past few days, sources said."
Last edited by DawgMichelle; 11/03/09 09:40 AM.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
That's not really all that far out on a limb.. I've now read two articles that indicate something like there were concerns with him regarding other matters.... I don't know if any of it is true or just some media types speculation..., These days it's hard to tell the difference..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
 Thanks, knew I had read it, but couldn't locate it again and didn't want to sift through page after page. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
I still wonder if Ernie isn't going to be the Prez, and a new GM brought in (with Bernie being mentored to be the next prez)..........that just makes much more since imo.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410 |
Quote:
Quote:
An article up above somewhere suggests they had been looking at Kokinis for the past week or more, so I think there was more here than simple team performance issues.
"For the past month, Lerner has independently investigated professional and personal conduct by Kokinis, head coach Eric Mangini and director of football operations Erin O'Brien, who left the organization within the past few days, sources said."
What the hell? Was there some kind of freaky love triangle going on?? Come on Lerner, fire Mangini already and appoint Ryan the Interim Head Coach and call it a day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Yes it does..we'll see it play out..but going back to something..HOW COULD KOKOPUFFS not know about the Edwards trade????
What else did he not know?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
j/c
I just went thru this entire thread, some interesting tidbits. It is unheard of to think that the GM did not know that his best WR was traded to the jets- it shouldn't matter how much of a duffus GM you are, how do you not get informed of a major trade like that???
Right there says Mangini just hung himself. Its Botch all over again. We went down that road once, didn't work out to well. I don't see how Mangini survives the year- he should just resign.
I've been the eternal optimist, and have been willing to give Mangini the benefit of the doubt. I think alot of the bad press has been overblown- accountability and discipline is a good thing. A fine for a water bottle or parking in the wrong assigned parking space is just common sense- nothing that the rest of us non athletes don't do on a daily basis.
BUT, to trade a WR without your GM knowing about it is over the top. This is a disfunctional franchise- i did not want to believe it until today- we rival the raiders.
How do we fix this mess. I am skeptical of Accorsi- i tend to think that he was on board with the recommendation of hiring Kokonis. IF Kosar takes this GM role it's a joke. He would need to be groomed for the position- and that would take years. Put him in as offensive coordinator- i think he would do well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Lerner told the Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon-Journal on Sunday he would like to bring in a "strong, credible, serious leader" to help run his team.
....
Mangini said he would be open to such a hire.
What choice does he really have? His market value in the NFL right now is somewhere below Derek Andersons.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
I think Mangini lasts the year. Someone will be brought in over the next week or 2 to evaluate the organization top to bottom, and then Mangini will be let go at the conclusion of the season, unless he miraculously pulls out 6+ wins in the last 8 games.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,070
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,070 |
Candy, did I hear you right? 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I think Mangini lasts the year. Someone will be brought in over the next week or 2 to evaluate the organization top to bottom, and then Mangini will be let go at the conclusion of the season, unless he miraculously pulls out 6+ wins in the last 8 games.
I don't think he has to win 6 games, I honestly think that whoever is brought in will evaluate EM as well. I think that person will spend time getting a feel for how the players really feel and respond to him and whether he can be successful in the right structure.
I may be the only person on here that feels this way, but if the players are ok with Mangini (and that's a big IF) and somebody is above him to hold him accountable and jerk the reigns every once in a while and help him with his assistant coaching decisions, I think he might be a pretty good coach.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
I have a feeling that Kok wanted out after the off season was over (and that's backed up by the OBR report). He basically saw that EM was going to run things with NO input from him, and so he quit caring. I honestly feel kind of bad for Kok because Mapoleon never really wanted a GM he wanted a puppet.
The whole BE thing just shows how dysfunctional this organization was/is, and why we need a strong leader to clean house and set things up. Dude, I've never heard of a trade happening without the GM knowing..............NEVER. Botch never even did that to Garcia...lol.
Short live the King Mapoleon...............short live the King.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Send me a link to that story he wanted out at end of season..I'm not drumming through all the stories..
Manpoleon is about to hit the floor..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.
Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.
Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.
Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.
"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."
Reports that Accorsi would be hired to train former quarterback Bernie Kosar for a GM position are off base, too.
Accorsi, who considers himself a friend of the Lerner family, said he would give advice if called upon, but he has not had recent conversations with Lerner and has no agreement in place.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410 |
Wow! If not Accorsi, then who? I like the idea of Shottenheimer teamed with Cowher. Probably a pipe dream though...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I thought the sacrificial lamb was going to be Daboll...wow 
I think this sends a definate message - Randy is PO'd and the Mangini Empire is over...he might stay on as HC but only if he comforms to the liking of our NEW GM whoever that might be.
Dave Gettleman after the seasons end might be the guy as Accorsi recommended him. If they can have a symbiotic realationship...great if not then the GM of choice will make his own hire???
JMHO - hey at least Randy ain't sitting around...as long as he doesn't hire Django Brown I think we'll be alright 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
Quote:
Wow! If not Accorsi, then who? I like the idea of Shottenheimer teamed with Cowher. Probably a pipe dream though...
Probably,, how about Marty as GM and Brian as HC.....LOL THere ya go.. as long as we're speculating.,.,, let's go way out on a limb.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I didn't expect Kokopuffs to be the second to get the ax..but it makes sense now that RL wanted to track him down..like he was MIA...
I'm very curious what this "fired with cause is"..if there was a rift with him and Manpoleon did he do something or speak to someone he shouldn't have?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Ugh, I thought I covered this in another thread. We're going to get...
GM- Bill Polian
HC- Bill Bellicheck
OC- Josh McDaniels
DC- Steve Spagnola
Then we're going to trade for Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
If any of this speculation is true, Mangini needs to go.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,573
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,573 |
Quote:
I didn't expect Kokopuffs to be the second to get the ax..but it makes sense now that RL wanted to track him down..like he was MIA...
I'm very curious what this "fired with cause is"..if there was a rift with him and Manpoleon did he do something or speak to someone he shouldn't have?
Probably. A few too many conversations with his ravens buddies, or possibly a leak source.
At any rate, there are reports out the butt that all seem to conflict. The one thing that seems central is Kok had given up and may have wanted to be terminated as that would release him to seek employment rather than sit it out waiting for the contract to expire and then any possible non compete clauses attached after that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I was going to say did he add to this..or do something that would get himself fired since he wanted out??
This is what I have not nailed down..he was ticked off about his role and basically not having any imput into anything..well why not speak out about it to your head person?
Put the pressure on the person who's made it impossible to do your job?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini will not discuss departure of GM George Kokinis
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 11:00AM
BEREA -- Browns coach Eric Mangini would not go into details about why the club fired his friend, George Kokinis, as general manager.
"Any time a decision like this is made it's difficult, both professionally and personally," Mangini said Tuesday. "George is a friend of mine and I respect him and wish him and his family well. For a variety of reasons, things didn't work out. You never go into a situation like this with the intent of it not working out.
"We felt organizationally this was the best decision in terms of moving forward. We have a strong structure in place on the pro side and the college side and things will continue to operate effeectively on a day to day basis."
Mangini would not address reports that the Browns had "just cause" to dismiss Kokinis and would seek to recoup the money owed in his contract.
"For a variety of reasons, it's all I can say at this point," Mangini said.
As the questions intensified, Mangini deflected each one by saying, "I undertand and appreciate the question. I hope you can also respect I've added all I can add right now."
Mangini would not say when the team would add a general manager.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Like he's going to let the cat outta the bag..give away military secrets on troop movements..or his demise.. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
The term "WE felt" is downright scary. I mean I remember Butch saying the same thing right before he gained total control. It is a bit disturbing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I seriously doubt this is a PLUS move for Mangini to gain more power.
Actually he had it - and now just had a major part of it cut off. Its the end of the Mangini Empire...he might stay on but at the Whim and decision of a soon to be named POWER GUY...
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Actually he had no choice.if he comes straight out and says"They felt"..bam!
Everyone knows who pulled the trigger..and it wasn't him.
But I don't need to hear it to know Kosar and someone else has told RL this is what needs to be done..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
... and things will continue to operate effectively on a day to day basis.
Contine to? When did they?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
No,Spags runs a 4-3. I'm thinking Rex Ryan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Spags also turned in the most amazing performance I've ever seen by a defensive coordinator in the 07' playoffs.
And, I hate Rex Ryan. I hope the Jets lose every game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
Its Botch all over again.
Funny, "Botch" has been the best HC of this franchise. He achieved more with less and yet everyone keeps going back to the same old chant - "fire this guy and bring someone new in" 
Where exactly has that gotten us? Or the Redskins? Or the Raiders? or the Rams? or the Lions?
The Giants FO and owner had the guts to tell the fans and media "cry all you want, but the coach is staying". Even after Barber ran out dramaticly because of the"mean old coach". Even after Strayhan held out and had a big hissy.
How'd sticking with Coughlin work out for them? SuperBowl and perenial playoff spot.
Maybe it's time Lerner showed a little backbone and didn't cave to fan opinion every few months.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
But I don't need to hear it to know Kosar and someone else has told RL this is what needs to be done..
Before Kosar is appointed GM, Pres, or Galactic Emperor let's remember the Bernie thought Ken Dorsey was an ultra-talented QB.
I love Bernie and respect him as much as the next guy, but, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Here's the latest quote from Mangini: [quote"The decision that was made was difficult personally and professionally," Mangini said. “George is a friend of mine and I respect him. I wish him and his family well. I can tell you that, for a variety of reasons, it didn’t work out...This was the best decision in order to move forward."
What a pile of poo.
Quote:
The decision that was made was difficult personally and professionally
No it wasn't. Okay, maybe it was a difficult personal decision because Mangini and Kokinis have known each other so long. But do we really think Mangini cares about his personal relationships? He threw his mentor under the bus. And it definitely wasn't a difficult professional decision. Mangini's profession is coaching football. He wants to stay in that profession. Therefore someone else had to go to keep his job. He would have thrown anyone under the bus.
Quote:
George is a friend of mine and I respect him.
Imagine what he acts like around guys he doesn't like. He didn't even tell his friend/GM of the team that he traded the team's #1 Wide Receiver. Now that's respect.
Quote:
This was the best decision in order to move forward.
This quote should really be, "This was the best decision in order to move forward....for me." The best decision for the team would be to have you resign.
Now I know Mangini can't really comment on this. But still, don't spew garbage like that when everyone knows what really happened.
Quote from James Walker's AFC North Blog
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83 |
Did anyone catch WKNR this morning? Apparently, the Dawgpound Mike guy gave a recap of his meeting with Lerner this morning. I missed it, and can't find any story on how it went.
Just curious as to what the guy had to say about the meeting. Probably nothing substantial, but it would be nice to get his thoughts on what the heck is going on, since he just met with the only person that knows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Cartman is spineless he'll do whatever saves his bottom....he's bigoted: he wants no "me first" guys, yet he's the biggest one of em all...then he wonders why hiy players don't follow what he preaches...what a clown
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
Aben, i kept trying to post about it and my post kept getting deleted or I'd have someone make fun of me for posting a "Free post". Basically they said Lerner cares and is really mad. He goes to every game and even talked to browns fans in Chicago on sunday for about 15 minutes after the game
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
Its not about hiring a new guy....its about hiring the right guy.
IMO thats Mike Holmgren.
HACK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83 |
Quote:
Aben, i kept trying to post about it and my post kept getting deleted or I'd have someone make fun of me for posting a "Free post". Basically they said Lerner cares and is really mad. He goes to every game and even talked to browns fans in Chicago on sunday for about 15 minutes after the game
Did he offer any insight as to what might happen next, or give any reaction or message that Lerner wanted to convey to fans? I hope they didn't just sit there talking about how mad he was, but then not discussing what in the world will happen next.......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kokinis escorted out of building
in Cleveland
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/SteelHack/hackfun.jpg)