|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83
Rookie
|
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 83 |
Interesting. Thank you for the update. I appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Its not about hiring a new guy....its about hiring the right guy.
IMO thats Mike Holmgren.
HACK
This is my opinion as well. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,795
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,795 |
J/C
Lerner is at fault and is what's wrong with this team. We blame Romeo, Robiske, Mangini, Savage and Kokopuffs for what has happened. The common denominator is Lerner. He has been completely inept in hiring. I'm afraid until he is gone things will never be good in Cleveland.
We are the worst ran team not named the Raiders.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I would love Holmgren as only the head coach or only the GM/President type.
Not only is he good himself. But would bring in good people with a track record of success.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
Yeah but Lerner is not going anywhere because his father died running this team. He will honor his fathers legacy. I know that there is another owner in this town that Lerner can turn to ... Dan Gilbert. Give him a call and ask him to run an organization.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
I agree with the only part. I don't want anyone that has all the power. Ideally I would like to see Homgren in the front office and Gruden as the Coach but that's just wishful thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Yeah because Dan Gilbert has hired the best GM who has built a team that will last around LeBron.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
J/C
Lerner is at fault and is what's wrong with this team. We blame Romeo, Robiske, Mangini, Savage and Kokopuffs for what has happened. The common denominator is Lerner. He has been completely inept in hiring. I'm afraid until he is gone things will never be good in Cleveland.
We are the worst ran team not named the Raiders.
Lerner is at fault for everything, however, If the Bidwells can eventually figure it out, then so can Randy Lerner.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I tend to agree with you that Butch was the best coach we have had... pair him with a decent GM and we might have had something there but he wanted full control.. and that was his undoing. Quote:
Maybe it's time Lerner showed a little backbone and didn't cave to fan opinion every few months.
It's just fan opinion that we suck? I think Lerner would do that if... IF... he felt like he really had the right people in the right places...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
I know everyone wants to pile it on Lerner. But really whats the guy to do ? There is no secret formula that he can purchase and make everything better. He consults with other owners, former GMs, former players. I personally have every confidence that he is doing everything in his power to succeed.
As an owner all he can really do is write the checks, and he does, very large ones, repeatedly. Lerner is not the source of our problems. Unfortunately he hasnt been the answer either, but there isnt a single owner around the league who can truly take any responsibility for the success of their franchise. Other than having hired the right person to run it.
He chased Parcells, He chased Cowher. He has gone after the proven guys throughout the years. When there was an opportunity to do so.
I for one am glad we have him, it could be alot worse. We could be this bad and have an owner unwilling to spend any dough.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,579
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,579 |
Quote:
I know everyone wants to pile it on Lerner. But really whats the guy to do ? There is no secret formula that he can purchase and make everything better. He consults with other owners, former GMs, former players. I personally have every confidence that he is doing everything in his power to succeed.
As an owner all he can really do is write the checks, and he does, very large ones, repeatedly. Lerner is not the source of our problems. Unfortunately he hasnt been the answer either, but there isnt a single owner around the league who can truly take any responsibility for the success of their franchise. Other than having hired the right person to run it.
He chased Parcells, He chased Cowher. He has gone after the proven guys throughout the years. When there was an opportunity to do so.
I for one am glad we have him, it could be alot worse. We could be this bad and have an owner unwilling to spend any dough.
I agree. Thanks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Unfortunately he hasnt been the answer either, but there isnt a single owner around the league who can truly take any responsibility for the success of their franchise. Other than having hired the right person to run it.
Well, that's it. He needs to hire the right people... that's all any CEO of a major corporation does, hire the right people, who in turn hire more of the right people.. and eventually you end up with a solid organization... So yes, that is ALL he can do... but that is the most important first step.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,579
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,579 |
When I think about it, the only thing I am really mad at the guy for is he didn't call me to include me in the consultation process. I could have put him on the right course. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437 |
J/C...
Maybe Koke and that O'Brien chick were having an affair or something? They were both canned and they have talked about pulling Koke's phone records...
What else would cause a GM removal this early in the season? It has to be something big..
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
but it's a crap shoot.
There's 32 NFL head coaches out there and a handful of guys that get fired every year. The good ones don't get fired, they retire.
It's not like he can goto NFLCoachForHire.com and check resumes. It's a crap shoot, and even the best coach may not succeed with the organization he's hired to based on many factors.
People don't want a college coach, people don't want some other teams reject coach. Hiring a coordinator is a gamble as a HC. There's no business formula that just arrives with the answer. Unlucky for us, it's been a string of poor ones.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Good points, Florida. IMO, there's no guarantee either that a coach who has had success somewhere else will have success at another team. There are a lot of things that factor in.
For example, Cowher had a pretty darn successful run in Pittsburgh, but how much of that was him vs. the front office? If he were brought in as a GM or President, how successful would he be?
Holmgren did a pretty darn good job in Green Bay, but how much of that was him and how much was the FO? He then went to Seattle, where they had some success. That's what makes me think it was him (especially since they've struggled since he left), and which would make me very happy if he came here.
But, past success is no guarantee of future success.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
UPDATE: We're hearing the same information from more and more sources, including one source who witnessed Kokinis collect his things and exit the building.
So the source witnessed this? I wonder if Mangini is going to have all the office workers' cell phones so he can go thru them and check who they were talking to. Kinda like he did with the one head of scouting at the beggining of his tenure and trying to find out who leaked to the media about Kokinis being in town. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Might as well have fired the water boy...
What a useless gesture.
Had he even spoken since the day of his hiring press conference? Maybe post draft I don't know.
This guy was to Mangini what Charlie McCarthy was to Egdar Bergen.
Do you know how many people are going to have to google that reference! 
Not me. Too lazy to google.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not about hiring a new guy....its about hiring the right guy.
IMO thats Mike Holmgren.
HACK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my opinion as well.
Actually, I'm not all that sure why folks are so high on Holmgren, Cowher or Marty as a GM candidate.. none of them have been successful GM's.. all have been very successful HC's.. Holmgren was not at his best when he had both the GM and HC duties..
I mean, I can't think of any off the top of my head, but how many Successful HC's have become Successful VP/GM guys..
I can think of Parcells of course.. One could argue that Belichick has the unofficial role of GM as well as HC. Many folks, me included, think he makes all the decisions for that team anyway..
One could argue that Marv Levy was somewhat successful with Buffalo for a short while as GM a few years back.. But I think he was marginal at best.
Was Paul Brown considered the GM and HC back in the day? Dunno, but if he was, then I'd say he was pretty successful.. Not sure what his status was with the Bengals at first. I thought he was only the owner, but doing some quick research shows he was the first HC as well.. I'm assuming he was GM also.. Can't confirm that..
Maybe going back you can find some guys that were successful as GM and HC. but in the last 20 years or so, how many have there been...
I'm not saying that Holmgren or Cowher or Marty can't be successful as a GM.. not saying that at all, Just wondering why so many are for them when history says it doesn't work all that often..
That's if I have thought of everyone.. and I'm pretty sure I haven't... sure I missed a few..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
What did the Seahawks do before Holmgren? What have they done since? That isn't just Holmgren the coach. He brought in the talent and then he coached them up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 410 |
Quote:
Quote:
But I don't need to hear it to know Kosar and someone else has told RL this is what needs to be done..
Before Kosar is appointed GM, Pres, or Galactic Emperor let's remember the Bernie thought Ken Dorsey was an ultra-talented QB.
I love Bernie and respect him as much as the next guy, but, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
What's he suppose to say about a fellow University of Miami Alum playing for his Browns?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
If I am the Browns...I want Holmgren the coach......If he just wants to be GM...thats ok too....but then I see about maybe a Holmgren/Mooch combo ...
The reason I want Holmgren is not because of his W/L record...its because he has had great success in developing QB's. Montana, Young, Favre, Hasslebeck....none of them were a house hold name till Holmgren got his hands on them......so either Holmgren transformed them...or could simply spot that talent....either way....Cleveland has been looking for a QB since they have come back....
The Browns have had some skill people..and they finally put some Oline together..but the QB spot needs work...so go get a QB specialist to run the show
HACK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
My first choice would indeed be to have Holmgren be the coach but I'm under the impression he no longer wants to do that. If that's the case then Holmgren the GM would still be a huge upgrade.
He also has a great relationship with many good coaches in the league. I would love a combo of him as the GM and Mooch or Gruden as the coach.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
Quote:
My first choice would indeed be to have Holmgren be the coach but I'm under the impression he no longer wants to do that. If that's the case then Holmgren the GM would still be a huge upgrade.
He also has a great relationship with many good coaches in the league. I would love a combo of him as the GM and Mooch or Gruden as the coach.
I could be wrong...but I thought he publicly said he wants to coach again.
HACK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
but I'm under the impression he no longer wants to do that.
A few weeks ago, on Mike and Mike in the Morning, Holmgren said he wanted to coach next year, but does not want a GM role.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
I guess from this article either one of us could be right.
Mike Holmgren: I'll Be Back in 2010
Posted May 13, 2009 10:57AM By Michael David Smith (RSS feed)
Filed Under: Packers, Seahawks, NFL Coaching
Email Print ShareText SizeAAA
Just five months after walking away from the Seattle Seahawks, Mike Holmgren says he already has the itch to get back to football, and he expects to be in the league in some capacity in 2010.
Holmgren told KJR in Seattle (via Sports Radio Interviews) that he was so excited during NFL draft weekend that he had to remind himself that he's no longer part of any NFL team.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow NFL FanHouse on Twitter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I really had to check myself and say, 'Listen, I'm don't have to get all worked up like this anymore for this right now,'" Holmgren said. "One of my purposes of taking a year off was one, how I would react to that and then kind of decide after that and react to that and see what the future held. You do something for so long and enjoy it so much, I think that's human nature that you're going to miss it."
It's interesting that Holmgren makes a point of referring to what he's doing now as "taking a year off." This is the first year of Holmgren's life that he hasn't been involved in football in some capacity, and it sounds like one year is going to be enough for him.
But what capacity will Holmgren return in? Although he's a Super Bowl-winning coach and could find a head-coaching gig if he wants one, he says he's open to working in a front office rather than on the sidelines.
"I plan to go back to work," Holmgren said. "Now, where and what capacity that is really pretty vague. I'm going to be open. I'm looking at the hires recently and they're hiring young coaches for one thing, and I'm a little bit of a dinosaur. I am going to be open to about any possibility."
Although Holmgren's final season in Seattle was a disappointing one, I don't think he's a dinosaur at all. He's a sharp football mind, and whatever team hires him in 2010 will be glad it did.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But I don't need to hear it to know Kosar and someone else has told RL this is what needs to be done..
Before Kosar is appointed GM, Pres, or Galactic Emperor let's remember the Bernie thought Ken Dorsey was an ultra-talented QB.
I love Bernie and respect him as much as the next guy, but, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
What's he suppose to say about a fellow University of Miami Alum playing for his Browns?
You forgot to add....."and half crocked"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I don't know how many years I've pleaded and begged for a coach to bring the WCO to this team, but to no avail.
For that reason and that reason only, I'd be totally for Holmgren.
But there's cause for concern with him.
He's consulted with his family a bunch when trying to decide whether or not he should continue with his career. That makes it dicey that he'd continue his work with an organization if things didn't go smoothly right out of the gate.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Well, we certainly don't want a coach that consults with his family!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
I'm not sure you have that right Tim
When Holmgren was hired, he was indeed the GM and HC.. At one point, it was getting bad, then the owner,, I think his name is Paul Allen (co founder of Microsoft) decided that it wasn't in the best interest of the team to have Holmgren be both, so he split up the duties, it was after that they got to the Superbowl... was that a coincedence or was that as a result of the changes.. dunno.
All I know is that very very few HC's have gone on to be successful GM's..
Again, and please please understand this, I'm NOT saying that Holmgren can't be successful as a GM,, he very well could be. I'm only saying that it appears that the most successful GM's come from the personal side of the business.. just saying..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,874 |
Toad, as a HC, I'd have NO PROBLEM whatsoever with Holmgren.. NONE
As a GM, I dunno.., I suppose worse things could happen. If we hit good with him like Miami did with Parcells,,, terrific.. I'd love it.
But as I said, I don't see a long line of Successful HC's that have moved up to be Successful GM's.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Not a long line of TE's that end up successful GM's either, but it happens occasionally. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870 |
Quote:
Did anyone catch WKNR this morning? Apparently, the Dawgpound Mike guy gave a recap of his meeting with Lerner this morning. I missed it, and can't find any story on how it went.
Just curious as to what the guy had to say about the meeting. Probably nothing substantial, but it would be nice to get his thoughts on what the heck is going on, since he just met with the only person that knows.
Video from DP Mike about Meeting w/ Lerner
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137 |
He's going to be on Bruce Drennan's show this afternoon discussing the meeting.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Toad, as a HC, I'd have NO PROBLEM whatsoever with Holmgren.. NONE
As a GM, I dunno.., I suppose worse things could happen. If we hit good with him like Miami did with Parcells,,, terrific.. I'd love it.
But as I said, I don't see a long line of Successful HC's that have moved up to be Successful GM's.
What makes a successful GM? Whats more impressive on a resume, than a TE...a scout...whatever Garcia did in Miami U?
I think right now, hiring Holmgreen to do anything, would bring respectabilty to this franchise. He could be hired as a GM, look over the roster, and possibley name himself as head coach. Possibley hire someone after that to help with the roster.
We have our fans saying "this team is almost as dysfunctional then Oakland."
And Oakland fans saying vice versa. Holmgreen would bring immediate respectability to this team. From the media to the fans and possibley to the players and agents. Yeah, we might not care how the agents think of our team, but it might mean the differance of a player coming here or not. Some agents have a thing or 2 to do with where the players go in the draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
jc I want no part of Holmgren or Cowher as Presidents or GMs..HC? Great, but please NO MORE 1st TIME GM or Footbal President as the HEAD of this org That said, here's EM's PC transcript and my fav part: http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2009/11/cleveland_browns_head_coach_er.htmlOn how many of the players he brought in this season he thinks have the potential to be franchise impact players:"I think that everybody who's here right now is contributing to the things that were doing now and hopefully the things that we're building towards in the future. Everybody contributes to that process. I feel comfortable with the guys that we've brought in and their contributions, their approach, their work ethic, things like that. It's all part of what you continue to grow." Things like that, huh? Who cares about talent and actual production, right? What a clown
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.
Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.
Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.
Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.
"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."
Reports that Accorsi would be hired to train former quarterback Bernie Kosar for a GM position are off base, too.
Accorsi, who considers himself a friend of the Lerner family, said he would give advice if called upon, but he has not had recent conversations with Lerner and has no agreement in place.
Did Grossi do a good job of finding false reports or did Grossi read fans ideas or have his own ideas and ask Accorsi questions just to have a story? Were there actual reports of Accorsi or Kosar even being considered? I wonder if Erin or Kokinis is now leaking stories or have their own speculations.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
What does this Dawgpound Mike guy do for a living? I'm glad he's "getting our voices heard". But geeze... meetings with the owner, traveling everywhere with the team, expensive Fry suits, on talk shows, etc...
Oh well, I feel bad for mobile dawg though. He kind of just sits there and nods once an awhile.
Dawgpound Mike = Mangini, Mobile Dawg = Kokinis.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,552
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,552 |
I have no problem with Holmgreen as Pres. I think he would do a good job of finding the right HC and GM combo. All with the same philosophy in mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
What does this Dawgpound Mike guy do for a living? I'm glad he's "getting our voices heard". But geeze... meetings with the owner, traveling everywhere with the team, expensive Fry suits, on talk shows, etc...
Oh well, I feel bad for mobile dawg though. He kind of just sits there and nods once an awhile.
Dawgpound Mike = Mangini, Mobile Dawg = Kokinis.
I was wondering what Mobile Dawg was doing...he just kinda stood there and spit a little.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kokinis escorted out of building
in Cleveland
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/SteelHack/hackfun.jpg)
