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Give Mangini the rest of the year and next year.
And the next year
and the next year and the next year
and the next year
and
the
next year.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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That's what I am thinking -- why ? Parcells' next move is more than likely retirement. At some point, your health becomes the overriding factor in life. "This" new job would create stress that Bill does not need.
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He at least has an opt out, and his contract might even be up.
as cfrs showed, his opt-out was for last year in a limited window due to the sale of the team.
his contract still has 2 years on it (through the end of the 2011/12 season)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3162909
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I saw somewhere where he had an opt out. Guess they were wrong, and in the process they made me look bad. 
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Based on everything we have seen and heard this season what makes you think that is the right move?
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as long as we get all the right info out there...no worries how it is done.
that said, you still don't like Holmgren as the leader? can you give a few reasons why not?
and who would be your planA at this point?
#gmstrong
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The opt out clause was if Wayne Huizenga sold the team Parcells could opt out and still get paid the remainder of his salary. Wayne Huizenga has sold the team. But he had to opt out within 30 days of Huizenga selling the team. It's been more than 30 days. (Link)
I see no reason why Parcells would want to leave Miami. Everyone in place there are his guys. From the GM to the Head Coach. Also, when you are 68 years old, why would you leave Miami and go to Cleveland?
+1
Parcells won't come here, period.
Miami's talent > Cleveland's talent
Miami's weather > Cleveland's weather
Org already built by BP > BP would need to start over from scratch here
Hell, I wouldn't even take the President position with this team (ok I would, but you get my point).
Holmgren & Shanahan are our best shots. Two guys that have done it before, are good with young QB's, want total control, big enough names to show the league we're "serious" this time, and are currently unemployed.
Cowher.....don't hold your breath. If he'd have wanted to come here with all the money and power, he would have signed last year when Lerner offered it to him.
With that being said, I doubt the two Mike's would come here. Yes, they would attain ego, money, power, the chance to rebuild "their team", show the league they could do it anywhere, and a chance at another title...........BUT, we're also devoid of talent, a bad season or two and the fans will revolt (as always), the owner seems to have a quick firing trigger finger, and we have a culture of losing.
We'll see....
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I don't want someone who's gonna bolt on us soon (Parcells was an exception) and I'm not sold on Holmgren's abilities to build a team. He has never done it before, and he's had the chance.
I don't know who my plan A is. I need to do more research. I like Heckert with the Eagles, and the guy with the Steelers, Colbert. I don't think there's much of a chance that we get either of them though. So that leaves Gettleman of the Giants (who Accorsi recommended) or more likely someone I don't know about.
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Parcells went to the 1-15 Dolphins after leaving the Cowboys, why wouldn't he come here. you underestimate the egos that these guys have.
With that said, I think he'll see it through in Miami and try to build a championship.
Cowher didn't take the job last year because he wanted to wait until his daughter graduated high school.
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ok, fair enough....
though Holmgren has been at least partially credited for both the Packers rise(with Wolf of course) and Seahawks (as GM/coach at first)
if I have more time later, I'll go back and see how much of the Seahawks rise was due to his GM duties and how much happened after he went back to just being a coach.
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I think that he has shown he isn't afraid to take the hard road, and he eliminated two locker room cancers.
He is committed to bringing in hard-working players to execute his plan.
His team this year has been pretty bad offensively, and I believe that that is a function of trading away our two dynamic weapons.
But I believe that with the draft picks he has got, he will build a solid team.
He took two 2nd round receivers who are gaining experience and come next year, I am banking on improvement.
Mangini knows that our offense is bad right now and needs to be improved.
Defensively, I don't think we are that bad.
We are getting more sacks than we did last year. It seems like we are forcing more fumble, but our int's aren't respectable.
We just need better production out of the offense and this team will be solid.
When we did get production outta the offense--during the Cincy game, it was one of our best showings all year.
We need our receivers to start growing, we need to pick up a legit number 1 and draft a running back, and this team will be much better.
As much as people hated the trusnick pick up and costanzo---both those guys have been productive. Forcing fumbles, getting to the QB, making solid tackles, etc. etc.
As the guy says, its a process.
Once this offense starts to come around, we will be much, much better.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Cowher didn't take the job last year because he wanted to wait until his daughter graduated high school.
Well, that's what he said. I don't buy it. I'm convinced he wasn't going to come here because he knows we stink and all his previous ties are with Pittsburgh. I know Bill started here....but he built his legacy in Pittsburgh.
And plus, Bill was only the coach in Pittsburgh. He's never been a GM. If he were to come here, I thought he wanted to be a GM/Head Coach.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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While publicly an honorable excuse, he could have easily still been a good absentee Dad while taking the job. I think there are bigger reasons he didn't come here, mostly the loyalty factor to the Steelers.
I would say he is a leading candidate for the Panthers job.
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I've heard he just wants to bring in his own guy.
I don't wanna give control to the coach. That probably roles out most of these guys.
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I don't wanna give control to the coach. That probably roles out most of these guys.
Yup, I'm against that too. BUT....if we want one of these guys, we'll have to give it up.
More than likely, we're going with a no-name guy from another organization and then letting him make the call on Magini in the offseason. So in reality, Lerner won't fire him, he'll let the next GM do it for him.
As much as everybody is against Mangini, I'm not on the "fire him now" bandwagon. We're at the low point right now, I want to see what happens the rest of the year, that will be the ultimate test of his coaching abilities.
I like Rob Ryan so far. He seems like a keeper. The defense isn't far off. The offense....ugh, it's a TOTAL DISASTER! That would be a plus to bringing in an offensive-minded head coach.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Nothing wrong with a "no name" GM. I'd prefer that over one of the experienced coaches in that role. The Savage/Romeo setup was good, just the wrong people.
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And the current setup is fine too. Just the wrong person. It's worked well for the Pats.
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I think RAC/Savage worked fine. Sure, last year was derailed by injuries---but in the NFL, those things happen.
I think firing them was a mistake.
I think firing Mangini is a mistake.
But here in Cleveland, fans want to start over; again.
And next year, when we clean house and suck again, we will want to start over, cuz its "the wrong people."
Coming from folks who have no involvement whatsoever in the league, and judging folks who actually have nearly 20 year careers in the league---its stupid.
I know a little about the game---but I am not an NFL mind. In fact, I would bet than NO ONE on this board has worked an NFL coaching gig. Yet, all of us seem to be able to determine who is the "wrong guy" for the job. Give me a break.
I will support whoever is coach, and I think they wouldn't be coach if they weren't capable.
I think it makes sense to stick with Mangini.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Cartman might be an above average coach if the players were robots, players are human beings though and a HC absolutely has to be able to MANAGE those first and foremost.....in my book no coach is even average who is not able to earn respect in some way, sorry
that's why I was patient with Romeo....he was respected and that's #1 requirement in the NFL....turned out he was incompetent for the job, so be it...but I was willing to give him some time to get better
Mangini otoh is just an all around FAIL
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Mangini has more experience in the leaue than you do, doesn't he?
He has more Super Bowl rings.
He has a better understanding of the game, and a better grasp of HC in teh NFL.
And yet, you call him a failure----
I don't get it.
I think RL is screwing this all up again by sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. He is once again letting the fan base prod him into making a change that doesn't need to be made.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Cartman might be an above average coach if the players were robots, players are human beings though and a HC absolutely has to be able to MANAGE those first and foremost.....in my book no coach is even average who is not able to earn respect in some way, sorry
that's why I was patient with Romeo....he was respected and that's #1 requirement in the NFL....turned out he was incompetent for the job, so be it...but I was willing to give him some time to get better
Mangini otoh is just an all around FAIL
Agreed.
If you're a coach at any level, and you want to get the BEST results from your team, you need the respect of that team. Mangini doesn't have the respect of at least 25 percent of our players.
Maybe he could comprise a 53-man roster that has players who respect him on it. I think that would be hard to do. What's clear is that even if he did that, the talent level would surely be less superior to other teams not only in our division, but in the league. The bottom line is that the majority of talented players in the NFL are about themselves, and not their coach. Plus, I'd bet major money that it would take him more than four years to get a team comprised of ALL of his guys. And until he has that, we won't win. Period.
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Mangini has more experience in the leaue than you do, doesn't he?
He has more Super Bowl rings.
He has a better understanding of the game, and a better grasp of HC in teh NFL.
And yet, you call him a failure----
I don't get it.
I think RL is screwing this all up again by sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. He is once again letting the fan base prod him into making a change that doesn't need to be made.
He's a failure based on what he's done with this team since he came here in January. If you're happy with the "process" that we're in right now, that's certainly your right, but I'm not happy with the way I've seen him manage our organization thus far, and I'm not confident of how he will in the future.
His Super Bowl rings are as a non tyrannical Defensive Coordinator and Position Coach, where his overwhelming ego and power-struggles didn't cloud the entire team.
The "success" as a head coach that you speak of is one playoff season in three years in New York, with the majority of his players admitting they didn't like him after he left.
If you're on board with that, then fine. But I - along with the OVERWHELMING majority of knowledgeable Browns fans - am not.
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My wildcard pick is Shanahan.
Why's that a wildcard pick? I'm not talking Mike Shanahan.
I'm talking Kyle Shanahan.
This guy seems to have Josh McDaniels II written all over him.
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Mangini has more experience in the leaue than you do, doesn't he?
He has more experience than everyone on this message board. It means nothing, though.
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He has more Super Bowl rings.
As a coordinator on one of the most impressive teams in the last decade. On a side note, did he ever win one as a DC?
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He has a better understanding of the game, and a better grasp of HC in teh NFL.
Compared to us? Yes he does...not saying much.
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And yet, you call him a failure----
Well, he was fired by the Jets much for the same reason he is being run out of town here...the guy may be smart as hell, but sometimes being a people person is more important. Romeo was too soft, Mangini is too egotistical/controlling.
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I don't get it.
I think RL is screwing this all up again by sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. He is once again letting the fan base prod him into making a change that doesn't need to be made.
First of all, if you really think it's the fan base that is causing change, then you're quite naive. RL is pissed because his GM was reduced to nothing by his control drunk coach, who is also never going to get another HC job in the NFL again.
Mangini is probably not as bad of a coach as he has show in Cleveland but he has run everything the wrong way, has made his team and himself a joke around the NFL, and for better or worse, has blackballed himself in the NFL.
RL tried to catch lightning in a bottle but instead found a glow stick.
you had a good run Hank.
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Zero point in doing it now. Wait till the end of the season.
The hell there isn't. If the team plays any harder for someone else and is in better spirits then there is a point in doing it, rather than driving morale down further.
That is the only logical reason to change... if this team has quit on Mangini... or if they have just quit...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
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Zero point in doing it now. Wait till the end of the season.
The hell there isn't. If the team plays any harder for someone else and is in better spirits then there is a point in doing it, rather than driving morale down further.
That is the only logical reason to change... if this team has quit on Mangini... or if they have just quit...
All you need to do is read Danielle's posts and listen to what she says in chat. That'll tell you all you need to know.
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I am beginning to think Tyler just loves to defend people that are horrible at their jobs. First it was DA, who obviously is not an NFL QB and now it's Mangini. I bet over on the yahoo finance boards he was defending Skilling from Enron and Bear Stearns right up until their demise too.
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Mangini actually has the ego to say publicly that he will be involved in the hiring of our next general manager: Mangini will help select next general manager
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Mangini actually has the ego to say publicly that he will be involved in the hiring of our next general manager:
Mangini will help select next general manager
Funniest thing I've read all day.
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All you need to do is read Danielle's posts and listen to what she says in chat. That'll tell you all you need to know.
that Hank is frustrated he isn't starting? what starter from one year that isn't starting the next year isn't frustrated?....especially on a losing team.
I love that Danielle is on here posting (assuming no coachB situation), and I respect everything that Hank has done for the team the past few years. However, you have to remember her biases when reading her posts (pro Hank as she should be) just like you haev to remember the biases of some other posters.
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Quote:
All you need to do is read Danielle's posts and listen to what she says in chat. That'll tell you all you need to know.
that Hank is frustrated he isn't starting? what starter from one year that isn't starting the next year isn't frustrated?....especially on a losing team.
I love that Danielle is on here posting (assuming no coachB situation), and I respect everything that Hank has done for the team the past few years. However, you have to remember her biases when reading her posts (pro Hank as she should be) just like you haev to remember the biases of some other posters.
He's not the only one who's not happy with Mangini among respected veterans. I know this for a fact.
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He's not the only one who's not happy with Mangini among respected veterans. I know this for a fact.
You do not even need to know...like me....use deductive reasoning:
premise 1: by now some vets would stick for Mangini, if they liked him, right? instead...we're reading Lewis, one of the most respected vets on this team, speak out talking about "accountability" and how he would run the org completely different....
premise 2: body language and effort on the field
conclusion: brain meet broad hint
#gmstrong
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The opt out clause was if Wayne Huizenga sold the team Parcells could opt out and still get paid the remainder of his salary. Wayne Huizenga has sold the team. But he had to opt out within 30 days of Huizenga selling the team. It's been more than 30 days. (Link)
I see no reason why Parcells would want to leave Miami. Everyone in place there are his guys. From the GM to the Head Coach. Also, when you are 68 years old, why would you leave Miami and go to Cleveland?
From the same link.....
"Since Parcells' escape clause came to light recently, speculation regarding his future has abounded. It has included reports that he might ask Ross to extend the opt-out clause a year and that Parcells might want to take charge of rebuilding projects with the Cleveland Browns or New York Jets.
Parcells became the Dolphins' executive vice president of football operations after being out of the game for a season. He took the job in part because he appreciated Huizenga's hands-off approach."
So, did he ask Ross to extend the opt-out clause a year?
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If Lerner keeps this guy now it's about his wallet...period!
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WOW.. parcells,, I kinda get the feeling it's unlikely we ever see him working for the Browns.. And at 68 years old,, how much longer can you expect him to be viable if he did come here..
I'd say it's probably not something we should spend a moment more thinkng about....
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/05/09 10:30 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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While I like Parcells..dude doesn't stay anywhere very long..you'd have to have someone to take over when he gets...bored and wants to walk away or go play with another team.
Now for all the talking neck-ties in here several things are going to happen to Manpoleon..and I don't care if you like him or not..
1-There's going to be a GM brought in that Manpoleon will have to answer to regardless of what he wants..He won't be making any trades..bringing in any more EX-Jets..or other scrubs...or making any draft selections..He'll just coach whats given to him.. 
2-New GM might suggest new coach..he will undoubtly get a new OC..one who is experienced.
3-Manpoleon might resign...from new structure.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/05/09 10:39 AM.
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I agree with everything you just said... That's gotta be a first no? 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think your right Attack. I really don't think Mangini will be fired. Not by the owner anyway. The first thing to do is bring in a GM that has all the power. Let him make the decisions. If he thinks he can work with Mangini then fine. He will stay. The only problem with that is I don't know that Mangini will agree to not having all the power. Which means he might leave on his own.
The fact is this is how the whole thing should have been done in the offseason. Find a strong personell guy to run the team and over see the front office. Then let him find a coach. That is essentially what will happen now. The one thing is if the GM can work with Mangini than he isn't going anywhere in the offseason.
I also think he can be a decent HC if he has someone to answer to and keep him in check. He is not a guy that can nor should run the whole thing.
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While I like Parcells..dude doesn't stay anywhere very long..you'd have to have someone to take over when he gets...bored and wants to walk away or go play with another team.
This is true, but he leaves every situation in significantly better shape than he found it...
Look at Gibbs in Washington... arguably the ONLY smart thing Snyder has done was bring Gibbs back to stabilize the franchise. He did that, he upgraded talent without busting the cap, had them in the playoffs twice in 4 years and brought some respect back to the organization... then when he leaves Snyder hires Jim Freakin' Zorn to coach the team and sets them right back to where they started....
A guy like Parcells (if there is another guy like Parcells) would do wonders with this franchise but the key would be the next step... do we grow on his improvements by bringing in the next guy with a solid record or do we go pick up a high school coach after he leaves?
yebat' Putin
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