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GM should not be the boss of the HC.
They should be on the same level of hierarchy. HC lists what type of players he needs to be successful, GM goes and finds them.
I don't agree with this. I know it happens to be the case on some teams with elite coaches, but traditionally - and on the majority of teams today, I believe - the GM / Director of Football Operations is the coach's "direct report", or boss. The GM / DFO hires and he fires coaches, at the owner's behest. The fact that Mangini thinks he is going to have input in the hiring of the guy who, in my opinion, is being hired to get rid of him reveals that he is either completely delusional, or possibly just disingenuous.
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But if people would like to take a step back and take a few deep breaths and actually use their brains....this definitely bears some thought. Especially since the guy was fired "With Cause" and since the guy isn't making any appearances to even flash part of his side of the story...and we have rumors of the Browns keeping things quiet partly for legal reasons and partly to not "embarass Kokinis' family".......
Was the guy incompetant? Was he giving out too much info to other Teams, so they wanted to limit his information? Was Mangini too much of a control freak?
There is allot more going on with this Kokinis guy than is meeting the eye....
I am glad you said that. I alluded to the same in a few other posts. You just don't fire a GM when the team sucks midseason.
I think he did not care. Maybe he said that to Lerner, OR he gave Mangini a blank check to do whatever he wants and then in essence, became an empty suit.
He did not show any backbone and tell Mangini --no you are not trading Braylon.
If true that he did not know that Braylon was traded till he saw it in the news then WHO signed off on it. Should it not be Kokinis? Again, he blank checked it probably.
As for Mangini and his we thing I second Dave´s comment above.
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The thing that jumps out at me is ....why was Jennie the one at the podium talking to the press on the Kok firing? That is the strangest thing i have ever heard of.
Did i miss a presser where the owner or someone report and answer the question? Did Jennie (like i read and watched on ESPN) make reference that led me to believe he had a voice or a vote in the decision on Kok?
If Lerner let Jennie do that......we should all see the problems in Berea folks.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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But if people would like to take a step back and take a few deep breaths and actually use their brains....this definitely bears some thought. Especially since the guy was fired "With Cause" and since the guy isn't making any appearances to even flash part of his side of the story...and we have rumors of the Browns keeping things quiet partly for legal reasons and partly to not "embarass Kokinis' family".......
Was the guy incompetant? Was he giving out too much info to other Teams, so they wanted to limit his information? Was Mangini too much of a control freak?
There is allot more going on with this Kokinis guy than is meeting the eye....
Pete314, I'm of the opinion there's something about 'personal conduct' underlying all this turmoil. Looking into his records, investigating for the last month, not wanting to embarrass his family, Mangini's comment about Kok's family but not including him, the 'with cause' approach after not reaching a settlement all lead me to conclude it had nothing to do with his job performance.
Given the legal aspects of 'firing for cause', we're not going to hear any specifics for a long time.
On the other note regarding this thread - all I can say is What?! to the Mangini comments that he'll be involved with hiring the new GM. That has to be the least probable scenario imaginable in any competent organization. I guess we'll see if Lerner is really in charge as this plays out.
What alternate universe are the Browns in? 
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I've wondered since the beginning if Kokinis dismissal had anything to do with football at all. They were reviewing his activities for th epast month, checking phone records, and that Erin O'Brien was released just a week or so previous.
I wonder if there is a backstory here that has nothing to do with the issues on the field or his job performance, and it's just all coincidence that it happened now.
Florida, I just replied to Pete about this in the same vein ... I had forgotten about her dismissal. Maybe all the pieces will be there for speculation but they'll probably never be confirmed. As far as coincidence, it almost has to be as Lerner sure wasn't giving off signals a month ago when supposedly the investigation of Kok began.
It also doesn't seem that firing an invisible GM fits the definition of significant change that Lerner stated, as a top football person seems to imply someone over both the GM and coach.
Whatever...
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if I hear Mangini say "process" one more time, I'm gonna f-in scream.
Took the words right out of my mouth
#gmstrong
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What GM would want to come aboard w/ this team if mangini is at the wheel?? 
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I've wondered since the beginning if Kokinis dismissal had anything to do with football at all. They were reviewing his activities for th epast month, checking phone records, and that Erin O'Brien was released just a week or so previous.
I wonder if there is a backstory here that has nothing to do with the issues on the field or his job performance, and it's just all coincidence that it happened now.
Now that is an interesting point, 'specially the part about "not embarassing Kokinis' family". Kinda makes ya wonder if GK and Ms O'Brien had a lil sum-sum goin' on, don't it?
[color:"green"] Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.[/color]
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You guys watch too many soap operas.
#gmstrong
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You guys watch too many soap operas.
Not me...haven't watched one of those since 1988, and it was in Germany. 
[color:"green"] Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.[/color]
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i'sn;tthis how we got in this mess in the first place??? /facepalm
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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#gmstrong
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Eric, you may now select your executioner.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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You guys watch too many soap operas.
I only watch Mexican soap operas. It is like listening to Randy.
You don't understand what he is saying.
Also have the egomaniac running around, (Mangiana)
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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Guys, I think we can take this article with a grain of salt.
Mangini will have NO say in the new GM.
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Yep. Koki was givin' it to Ms. O'B.
Oh, and Linguini will have NOTHING to do with the GM selection. This idiot has been totally stripped of his power, the kid is now demanding to know what the hell is going on (for the first time this season) and there is no way anyone worth a damn would come into a situation where Linguini would have a say in his job status.
We HAVE to bring in someone with a strong background and voice. The entire world is watching this one. And anyone who fits that description, will show that idiot the door about 3 minutes after the closing whistle of this ridiculous season.
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Yep. Koki was givin' it to Ms. O'B.
I don't know if that was true or not...but I hope it was...I would hate to think the fans are the only ones getting screwed. 
HACK
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Legend
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Yep. Koki was givin' it to Ms. O'B.
Oh, and Linguini will have NOTHING to do with the GM selection. This idiot has been totally stripped of his power,
I tent to agree, but you say it as if it's fact.. do you know something that you care to share with the rest of us?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Yep. Koki was givin' it to Ms. O'B.
Oh, and Linguini will have NOTHING to do with the GM selection. This idiot has been totally stripped of his power,
I tent to agree, but you say it as if it's fact.. do you know something that you care to share with the rest of us?
Sorry. I just think it's really obvious. Maybe I need to be more clear that it's only my opinion - like 99.99% of the stuff that is written here.
I'll try to be more forthcoming with my disclaimers.
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Eric, you may now select your executioner.
 Maybe its like asking Mangini, do you want to be hanged, shooting squad, or injected.
I do see that Mangini has a foundation in place. Now he needs to add playmakers or differance makers because now this team has none. At least 2 are needed on each side of the ball at the skill positions. There are a few decent players in the trenches but thats all they have besides Cribbs on specail teams.
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I'll try to be more forthcoming with my disclaimers.
LOL., No problem,, it's just that you seemed so sure, I thought maybe you knew something or saw something on here or somewhere that confirmed that.. it's not an issue.. Mostly, I wanted to make sure I didn't' just miss something. Thanks
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I tent to agree,
That's some serious agreement... I usually only tent first thing in the morning.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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That's some serious agreement... I usually only tent first thing in the morning.
Kind of eliminates any chance for a Nooner then doesn't it
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I do see that Mangini has a foundation in place. Now he needs to add playmakers or differance makers because now this team has none. At least 2 are needed on each side of the ball at the skill positions. There are a few decent players in the trenches but thats all they have besides Cribbs on specail teams.
Totally agree, I like how we are set-up for next year. We need to have a solid draft in April and aquire an impact wr in free-agency.
If we do this, then I think we will be competitive next year.
I don't think Mangini had foreseen the Braylon trade. Not too sure that he even wanted to trade him; but after the nightclub incident I think that he had had enough and shipped the guy---and got what he could.
I think that that means that we will look to aquire a legit number 1 receiver in the offseason. It would be nice if we could get Anquan Bolden, not sure if he is still looking to get outta Zona, but I think he would be a great fit here in Cleveland.
Pair him with Mass and Stuckey in the slot and we have a pretty respectable wr corps.
We will look to address the rb and rt/rg situation in the draft----and I could see us targeting linebackers, defensive backs, and possibly a tight end with our 11 picks.
I think that where we are today is a funtion of unloading our only remaining weapon from the days of RAC---with the Braylon trade, and I believe that that trade wasn't planned. We could have shipped him before the season if we really wanted too----but we didn't really want too. I think that Mangini felt he could get him to play-ball. But once the nightclub incident happened, I believe that Mangini felt as though he had no choice but to ship him out.
IMO, Lerner needs to stick with Mangini, and he needs to find a GM who can work with Mangini, hence, the news about Mangini having some input on GM's.
We need a GM who can work with the HC to target and aquire personnel that fit Mangini's plan.
When Mangini describes things as "a process," he is telling everyone that we aren't there yet.
I guarantee that we pick up a veteran receiver this off-season.
If we can get a guy to fill the Braylon void and some young fresh legs for the backfield, then weapon-wise, I feel comfortable going into next year.
This team isn't as far away as it appears.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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That's some serious agreement... I usually only tent first thing in the morning.
Kind of eliminates any chance for a Nooner then doesn't it
Only at your age, D.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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I do see that Mangini has a foundation in place. Now he needs to add playmakers or differance makers because now this team has none. At least 2 are needed on each side of the ball at the skill positions.
Here's the thing.. if he's going to insist that every draft pick or FA be some robotic choir boy, then he's going to have trouble finding what we need. I don't know exactly why, but the guys with the wild talent also tend to be the ones with the wild egos and the free spirits... and if he's not going to be willing to try to manage a player like that, then we are going to be stuck with a bunch of stick in the mud really smart nice guys with mediocre skills.
yebat' Putin
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U really think Manpoleon is going to be able to draw up the menu ,order it and serve it?
Not a chance..he ain't gonna get the chance to insist on anything...
My feeling is unless they totally Botch the new hire..that guy's going to handle the ordering..as it should be..Manpoleon will be able to inform him he'd like this or that but a smart GM will look at this roster and already know whats needed and go get it..
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.. " My feeling is unless they totally Botch the new hire.. "
Got to ask Dawg ; What has this organization accomplished in the last ten years that gives you any indication that they will NOT BOTCH it up AGAIN ?
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He has managed Shaun Rogers so far. And he is notorious for being a problem.
He initially gave Braylon a chance. He gave S. Smith a chance to make the team.
With Braylon, Mangini had just finally seen enough.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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don't know exactly why, but the guys with the wild talent also tend to be the ones with the wild egos and the free spirits...
I don't know if that's so true.. I admit it feels like that because those Wild Egos and Free spirits are the ones you hear about most,,
Let me name a few guys you don't hear about except in connection to thier on field exploits. These are in no order, and they are both current and past players:
Shaun Rogers
Willie McGinist
Tom Brady
Jerry Rice
Joe Montana
Brian Sipe
Bernie Kosar (except recently with his divorce and financial issues)
Jim Kelly
Donovan McNabb
Hines Ward
Jerome Bettis
Carson Palmer
Payton Manning
Eli Manning
Archie Manning
Clay Matthews
Doug Dieken
Joe Thomas
Dan Marino
I could go on,, but you get my drift..
I'd take any of those guys as rookies and put them on this team... wouldn't you?
The trick is finding the guys of good character AND extroidnary Talent and Skill....
But I do get your point, it would almost be impossible to get JUST good character guys with Great Talent.. sometimes, you gotta take a chance on marginal character if the talent is there..
but please,, no pacmans.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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With Braylon, Mangini had just finally seen enough.
This is true....it would have just been nice had he made a phone call to his GM and told him he had seen enough of Braylon....vs someone else calling the GM and saying..Hey..turn on ESPN..
HACK
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No I don't know that RL will not mess up again..everyone he's hired became power hungry..too many BS'd him including Manpoleon..
Sooo he said he needs a credible strong voice to mann the football side of the organization( and be aware Bernie's also will have RL's ear) and be the voice..well he's better get it right..or else you'll have two field generals who'll try to assasinate each other and blow up the Browns instead.
Lerner just needs to hire someone with a record of success, and let that person hire everyone below him.
Randy should make that hire a good one, and then become scarce. Which is what he'd like to do anyway.
Randy should not even be in the room when coaches are interviewed. Maybe not even in the building.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/05/09 04:56 PM.
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It has to be a guy who isn't intimidated by Manpoleon and who'll tell him this is how it's gonna be..either go with it or leave.
Wouldn't it be better to have a GM that can work with the HC to bring in the personnel that we need?
We don't need another Savage bringing in players and telling coach---Make it work.
We need to bring in a guy who will work with Mangini to build the team. We don't need a guy who is going to create another power struggle. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Do U not get it?
Guess not..I bet you still think DA is a viable QB...
Manpoleon brought in someone he could push around..
He knew Kokopuffs mentality..he wasn't going to recommend a strong personality that would challenge him..
There already was a power play and Manpoleon pulled it quick..so RL can't have some timid GM who'll be forced out of the way by EM..I don't care what kind of plan Manpoleon has...the GM needs to have a ultimate plan..
So while it might be nice and pertty to have both work hand n hand  ..it ain't gonna happen..EM will try another power trip..
He's the one that needs the power diminished..
If the right person (s) is brought in and it needs to be more than 1..it'll handcuff and power plays.
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He gets it. He is really just a troll who likes to take the opposite view of the rest of the board just to see how everyone reacts. He'll do it from everything from the QB to the coach to drunk driving and drugs.
It's really getting old
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Manpoleon brought in someone he could push around..
He knew Kokopuffs mentality..he wasn't going to recommend a strong personality that would challenge him..
speculative at best!!!!
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the GM needs to have a ultimate plan
So you wanna start over?
AGAIN??!?!? 
The answer here is to bring in a guy who can work with Mangini. No one knows what happened between Man/Kok and no one knows why Kokinas was fired.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Ok.. half the guys on your list are QBs, among the other half, many are lineman and the rest played 20 years ago when there weren't nearly as many headcases as there are today.
I know what you are saying though, there are guys out there that are both... and the funny thing is, sometimes you just don't know. A couple years ago Marvin Harrison would have probably fit nicely on that list... now?
I'm not saying we should draft or sign any old thug that has some skills.. I'm just saying that the other extreme is almost just as bad if you are trying to win... because I could generate an equally long list of guys who came out of college with the "questionable character" tag and were never ever a problem to their pro team.....
yebat' Putin
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