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Seahawks Should Pass on Holmgren
Its seemed clear that Holmgren has been planning on returning to football. I never got the idea it would be to the Seahawks though.
Besides, if their GM position and Lerner's "Czar" position were his only options next year, I'm sure he'd pick the money and power that came w/ the Browns. That on top of the strong, competitive AFC North division.
That said, there will be plenty more options for Holmgren in 2010. Even w/ him supposedly looking to avoid the Redskins like the plague. Here's hoping the Browns still end up being the most tempting . . . 
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The Giants defensive scheme....oh my lord....would love....LOVE to have the Browns run it.
43 one gap. Not reliant on the blitz. Good middle push, great ends. MLB stud.
It's just a root base that kills teams straight up.
I LOVE the Giants/Eagles 4-3. They crank up the blitz as much as some 3-4 teams do.
Acutally the Giants rarely blitz. When they did today they got themselves in trouble.
Their secret is putting a very strong personnel emphasis on their DL. If your FOUR can beat their FIVE, then you're going to destroy the other team. The Giants do it nearly half the time, which is plenty to disrupt the other teams offense.
Ask Kosar. His favorite defenses to play were blitzing defenses. When a base defense can get to the QB it's his worst nightmare.
I would love that to be the case in Cleveland.
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Which is why I don't think we have the ends here. I look at Strahan, Tuck, guys in that mold ... our would be ends seem like pop warner guys compared to those beasts. I think Wimbley and Hall would make nice depth ... but we'd need to reload that position.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Wouldn't it be easier to reload that position than to keep trying to build hybrid LB's?
#GMSTRONG
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Of course. But we could get there and we already have a strong group in the middle. Which is tough to find.
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j/c
Mangini scaring off GM candidates?
Some of the potential candidates (personnel men working in the NFL now) I chatted with who might be interested in placing their names in the hat for the GM position in Cleveland said they viewed Eric "The Secret" Mangini's proclamation that he'll be involved in the hiring process as a deal breaker. How can anyone work side by side with him when he wants to have all the authority?
National Football Post
link
Which is why you hire the President of Football Ops first, so they can hear from him.
Like it or not, Mangini needs to face facts...he's no longer calling the shots in Berea.
you had a good run Hank.
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Spags loved to blitz; I don't know about their new guy. Hence why they had Kiwi at linebacker for a few years.
People can stop talking about Chris Polian. He's been named his dad's successor in Indy and is gonna stay there until the job is his.
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So let's say we get Holmgren as the VP of Football Operations, much like Parcells in Miami. I would be happy with this.
My question is, assuming he hires his own GM and head coach, what are his job responsibilities on a day-to-day basis? I keep hearing that he's going to oversee football operations. Does that mean he just walks around the offices in Berea and checks in on people daily? Does he have a bigger role in assisting the GM with scouting, etc.? Is he in coaching meetings with position coaches and the head coach?
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He can do whatever he wants.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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So let's say we get Holmgren as the VP of Football Operations, much like Parcells in Miami. I would be happy with this.
My question is, assuming he hires his own GM and head coach, what are his job responsibilities on a day-to-day basis? I keep hearing that he's going to oversee football operations. Does that mean he just walks around the offices in Berea and checks in on people daily? Does he have a bigger role in assisting the GM with scouting, etc.? Is he in coaching meetings with position coaches and the head coach?
It means he would become de facto owner of the Browns. He sets the mission statement, he sets the vision for the Browns, he hires accordingly, then makes sure it is all running smoothly.
you had a good run Hank.
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Like it or not, Mangini needs to face facts...he's no longer calling the shots in Berea.
According to who, exactly?
Like him or not, he is currently the highest football decision maker left in Berea. If Lerner decides that he wants to keep Mangini, then that may become a condition of any deal for a Team President. Likewise, a GM may not be in a position "over" the Head Coach, but rather lateral to him.
What will happen is conjecture on everyone's part at this point. Certain people don't like Mangini ... so he's "gone" in their eyes. Is that what Lerner is thinking? Who knows? Lerner is certainly not one to spill his guts to the press.
We'll see when we see. Until then, everyone is just guessing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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According to who, exactly?
Like him or not, he is currently the highest football decision maker left in Berea. If Lerner decides that he wants to keep Mangini, then that may become a condition of any deal for a Team President. Likewise, a GM may not be in a position "over" the Head Coach, but rather lateral to him.
What will happen is conjecture on everyone's part at this point. Certain people don't like Mangini ... so he's "gone" in their eyes. Is that what Lerner is thinking? Who knows? Lerner is certainly not one to spill his guts to the press.
We'll see when we see. Until then, everyone is just guessing.
If you think hiring a Czar means hiring someone lateral to the Head Coach you might want to look up what the term Czar actually means. Lerner will not place a mandate on the person he picks, because he will run the football operation. getting a Czar and then telling him what to do would instantly remove the title of Czar.
Here I did the research for you
czar
  /zɑr, tsɑr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [zahr, tsahr] Show IPA
–noun
1. an emperor or king.
2. (often initial capital letter) the former emperor of Russia.
3. an autocratic ruler or leader.
4. any person exercising great authority or power in a particular field: a czar of industry.
Does that sound like someone who is lateral to anyone?
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Like it or not, Mangini needs to face facts...he's no longer calling the shots in Berea.
According to who, exactly?
Like him or not, he is currently the highest football decision maker left in Berea. If Lerner decides that he wants to keep Mangini, then that may become a condition of any deal for a Team President. Likewise, a GM may not be in a position "over" the Head Coach, but rather lateral to him.
What will happen is conjecture on everyone's part at this point. Certain people don't like Mangini ... so he's "gone" in their eyes. Is that what Lerner is thinking? Who knows? Lerner is certainly not one to spill his guts to the press.
We'll see when we see. Until then, everyone is just guessing.
Why would Lerner handicap a president who he wants to give, for all intents and purposes, full control over his franchise?
I'm more inclined to believe that Mangini will be given his chance to stay, but the days of him manipulating people and running the Browns are over. That's why we are hiring a President in the first place.
you had a good run Hank.
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Anyone think Mangini could be fired "with cause" for not letting the GM do his job?
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Anyone think Mangini could be fired "with cause" for not letting the GM do his job?
I was thinking he could be fired for cause with the product he puts on the field.
If I perform poorly at my job, I could be fired.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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As much as everyone hates it; I think we should give Mangini another year.
He has gotten rid of the me-first primadonnas, he has helped cut down on penalties, he has our defense getting more pressure on the QB, and he has set us up very well for a productive offseason.
Everyone on the board has always talked about the importance of building through the draft. Mangini has stockpiled a bunch of picks for this years draft. There is a possibility he will make a move for more come draft day.
He also has conserved money to possibly make a splash in Free Agency.
With a year to evaluate every position on the team and money and draft picks to address these issues; I believe that he should get another year.
If he doesn't show any improvement through next year---then fine, fire him.
But I don't think it would be a wise move to fire him this year.
He just started bringing the guys to get his system in place---he has stated many times that its a process, and its a plan, and so people needed to respect that and give him another year before they jump to any conclusions.
We weren't gonna win this year. People were auditioning to keep their jobs. Mangini was getting players used to his expectations and players were getting used to how things are going to run.
Blowing it up now is a bad move.
We just blew it up after last year.
We bring in a new guy and he starts the process of stripping down the roster and rebuilding this team and people want him fired 8 games in?!?!?!?
We haven't been competitive except for a couple games this year, maybe three, but we owe it to Mangini to let him correct this ship. He traded away the guys for the draft picks, he is the one looking to save money for the future, and so he should be the one to fulfill the plan this coming year.
There is so much hate going on right now, all directed at EM, and I don't buy it. The guy should get another year.
Daboll too.
The whole staff.
I think you keep em all.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Everyone on the board has always talked about the importance of building through the draft. Mangini has stockpiled a bunch of picks for this years draft. There is a possibility he will make a move for more come draft day.
I don't think anyone has any confidence in Mangini getting the picks right.
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He also has conserved money to possibly make a splash in Free Agency.
It has been said that no one will want to go to Cleveland if Mangini is still in town.
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With a year to evaluate every position on the team and money and draft picks to address these issues; I believe that he should get another year.
Again, from what he has done this year, what has he done to make you think the evaluations he will make are the correct ones?
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Blowing it up now is a bad move.
It has been blown. Mangini blew it up. Might as well bring in a credible person to unblow it.
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We just blew it up after last year.
Which is probably something we didn't need to do. We needed a few pieces here and there. Not a rebuild. Who made the decision to blow it up? That's right Mangenius.
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We bring in a new guy and he starts the process of stripping down the roster and rebuilding this team and people want him fired 8 games in?!?!?!?
Yeah. That sounds about right. Once again, he stripped down a roster that didn't need to be stripped down!
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We haven't been competitive except for a couple games this year, maybe three,
One game. We were competitive one game...against the Bengals. Don't even try and tell me that we were competitive in our 6-3 win over the Bills. If that's competing I want no part.
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but we owe it to Mangini to let him correct this ship.
We don't owe Mangini jack.
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He traded away the guys for the draft picks, he is the one looking to save money for the future, and so he should be the one to fulfill the plan this coming year.
He traded away our two best offensive weapons. Who also happened to be two guys who would call out his BS publicly. Coincidence. No.
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There is so much hate going on right now, all directed at EM, and I don't buy it. The guy should get another year.
I think we can all see the writing on the wall. Lerner is going to hire someone and give that person complete control. Mangini wants complete control; as seen by his relationship (or non-relationship) with Kokinis.
This "Czar" will be hired and will determine who the GM will be. Then the "Czar" and GM will decide whether or not Mangini is the right guy to be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns.
After reviewing Mangini's credentials (of which there aren't many) the new GM will probably fire Mangini. It's hard to run a team when the guy who previously had full control is still around. Especially when that person reluctantly gave up that control.
Mangini's toast.
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I don't think anyone has any confidence in Mangini getting the picks right.
And he wont, he probably had the biggest misses of all time in the 2nd round this past draft. But it doesn't matter, he wont be here next year.
If we don't get someone else in here who knows how to use those 11 picks it will be more of the same.
I really hope we do get the right guy in here this time, or I might consider taking up China White as a hobby.
Last edited by Psydeffect; 11/09/09 02:16 AM.
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I don't think anyone has any confidence in Mangini getting the picks right.
He did pretty well in NY. Just like in NY, we have a scouting department too. Tannenbaum wasn't teh only guy pulling the strings in NY, and after Mangini was let go the team stated that they were grateful with the FOUNDATION that Mangini BUILT.
"He did a great job for us for three years and he helped lay a great foundation," general manager Mike Tannenbaum said.
-- Link
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It has been said that no one will want to go to Cleveland if Mangini is still in town.
Just like Mangini had so much trouble landing big name players with the Jets. 
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what has he done to make you think the evaluations he will make are the correct ones?
He got rid of two primadonnas who NEEDED TO GO!!!! He drafted a center who is starting every game this year, and by all accounts will be a solid piece of this line for years to come. He picked two developmental wr's--seeing as our wr corps outside of BE was horrible, we needed to pick up some talent here. He settled for lower picks here instead of going for a first rounder, but these guys certainly are better suited for the league than Syndric Steptoe. Momass is looking like a strong candidate as a number two.
People were all really high on James Davis too. Kaluka and Veikune are both picks that address depth issues at LB. Too early to judge. Calling a draft 7 weeks into season 1 is assinine.
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Mangini blew it up. Might as well bring in a credible person to unblow it.
Mangini has over a decade of experience in the league. He worked under Parcells and Belicheck. He has prior experience as a positions coach, a coordinator, and a HC.
He is a credible person. We are in the process of rebuilding and people wanna start over 7 weeks into season 1. 
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Which is probably something we didn't need to do.
I was happy with RAC/Savage, thought they deserved another year too. But seeing as though Jr. decided to go another direction, I think we should at least see what that direction is all about. We aren't there quite yet. This year was more about getting rid of the guys that didn't fit and finding some cheap replacements until real work can be done-----which is coming this offseason!!!!!
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We needed a few pieces here and there.
Once RAC/Savage were gone, it was obvious that things were gonna change. BE wanted out. K2 needed to be shipped. Whoever came in this year---both these guys would be gone. BE is a punk and K2 was damaged goods. Great moves getting rid of them---now we need to do some work in April.
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he stripped down a roster that didn't need to be stripped down!
This roster DID NEED stripped down!!!!! No one liked A. Davis here, K2 needed to be shipped and Braylon was ready to walk anyways. Who else did we ship? Shaffer-----dude was garbage anyways. We got a cheap stop-gap for a position that will definitely be addressed in the draft next year.
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We don't owe Mangini jack
He was the one who planned to aquire the draft picks with the idea of building his team with those said draft picks---so he should get to do this. If we fire him we are still going to end up paying him. We mind as well see what he is trying to do with the moves he has made thus far.
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He traded away our two best offensive weapons. Who also happened to be two guys who would call out his BS publicly.
SO you are more for having BE and K2 run this team instead of the HC. I haven't seen those guys say much about Mangini anyways. Hell, K2 never even played for the guy.
What kind of player calls out his coach in the media anyways.
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Mangini wants complete control; as seen by his relationship (or non-relationship) with Kokinis.
You don't know this. No one knows exacly what happened. It was said that Kok wasn't doing his job. That isn't Mangini's fault. Mangini wasn't teh one who got fired. No one knows what the heck happened to result in the firing. But those with agendas certainly like to pin it all on Mangini.
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After reviewing Mangini's credentials (of which there aren't many) the new GM will probably fire Mangini.
He certainly had the cred to climb the coaching tree pretty quickly. As a coordinator in NE he was one of the most sought after guys for a head coaching gig before he left for the NYJ.
It wasn't until the whole spygate thing that the media turned on him.
Now all that hate is infecting Browns fans minds.
Mangini should get another year to improve this team. If we show improvement next year and we win 6-8 games----then he should get his whole contract. At least.
Firing a guy 7 weeks into the first season of a rebuild is ludicrous. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I might consider taking up China White as a hobby.
Its soooooooo worth it!!!!!!!!
I used to love her.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Name: Tom Heckert
Current team: Philadelphia Eagles
Current position: General Manager
Age: 42
Philadelphia has been the NFC’s best team this decade, making seven playoff appearances, and having just one losing season (2005) and one of the main reasons for their success can be attributed to their personnel department, which Heckert joined in 2001 after 10 years in the Miami Dolphins’ front office.
I know the masses like Holmgrem..me..I like Heckert..I have looked hard at the Eagles for years and years..they have very good drafts and a solid team..if they have a weakness it's not having top notch WR's and backers..put me down for him.
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5. The Browns, again, are adrift on Lake Erie. Having lost his director of football operations, Erin O'Brien, and hand-picked rookie GM, George Kokinis, both under mysterious circumstances near midseason, coach Eric Mangini now awaits the hiring of a Cleveland football czar to determine his fate. Hope he's renting. The 2-14 expansion Browns of 1999 had significantly more promise than this team.
Which leads us to ...
---
Cleveland is looking for another solution.
On Saturday at NBC, I reported Cleveland owner Randy Lerner has spoken with, or will speak with, former Super Bowl-team architects and/or coaches Ron Wolf, Mike Holmgren and Ernie Accorsi about the football czar position he hopes to fill to set his organization on a better path. Translation: He wants someone with a great résumé to be a helping hand for Mangini -- and, depending how the rest of the year goes, to perhaps be the one who tells Lerner, "You've got to fire this guy and start over. Again.''
I believe Lerner still has faith in Mangini, but that the faith has been shaken by the work environment in the building that would cause two of the people Mangini trusts most in the world, O'Brien and Kokinis, to be vanquished by midseason of their first year together in Cleveland. I think nothing would make Lerner happier than to hire Holmgren, hand him a five-year GM contract, and finally believe he's put the right man in place to steer the team out of its Washington Nationals-type funk.
There's no question a new boss is needed. For too long, this team has made knee-jerk financial decision that will haunt Lerner's bottom line for year. He's on the hook to Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage for $21 million, which you know if you've followed this story. But what you don't know is the three-year, $6-million extension the team handed offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski late in Crennel's tenure. That's the reason Lerner needs a Holmgren (or an Accorsi or Wolf). If someone in the office mentioned handing a hard-working but unproven coordinator $2 mill a year, Holmgren would say one of two things: "Hey, I'll do it for $2 million a year,'' or "Are you out of your mind?''
Lerner wants the new man on board very soon so he could make an educated recommendation about Mangini's fate soon after the season. One of the reasons there's a little pressure on the Mangini decision is that the team will likely be in the market for a quarterback in the April draft. It'd be silly to have Mangini make the pick, unless Lerner was certain Mangini was his man to lead the team into the future.
And if Mangini goes, that would bring to at least $35-million the amount of money Lerner would be paying people to not work for the Browns. This team needs a life-preserver in the worst way.
link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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you had a good run Hank.
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Well, the good news is we do have a head start on the competition for getting the right guy in here.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I think the season ticket holders might give up their first born. 
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Hehe, I wrote that article twice a week on here since Lerner hired the clown ....eggshells, not trusting anyone, treating players like robots, bad communicator, outsmarting himself I feel relieved  Trust me guys...as bad as this season was/is/will be....it was the best to see EM's REAL face this quick before wasting another season (and more importantly: another offseason) or 2 with him......no way we can keep him now after the season...no way....and I'm pretty happy about it and as for Parcells....he would be my number 1 choice....he has 1 or 2 overachiever-overdrafts in every draft but I can live with that because he takes a chance on those guys in the mid rounds and has been very solid in the early rounds...and he would bring in some instant credibility and thus better FAs
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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On a personal note, never been a big fan of the Tuna.. but damn, everywhere he goes, the club improves and becomes credible.. That would be the ultimate if Lerner went fishing for a lead dog and hooked the Tuna... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Anyone think Mangini could be fired "with cause" for not letting the GM do his job?
it's called insubordination
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I have been thinking about Parcells lately.
He's a Jersey cold wheather guy,not the kind of person who could really enjoy what Miami has to offer.
I don't see him as being happy with all the celebrity owners of the Fins,it isn't his type of atmosphere.
Bring him in.Then Lerner can stay in London,NYC,Stalingrad,where ever.Just mail the checks in.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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and as for Parcells....he would be my number 1 choice....
My biggest problem with Parcells is that he's a short-timer. Do well or do poorly, he's going to bail after a couple of seasons no matter what. That's fine if his plan works, but if it's still in a rebuilding phase, he'll jump-ship and we wouldn't know how we'd stand.
He knows his stuff, but in recent years he's been a flip-flopper who doesn't stay in one place very long.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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As much as everyone hates it; I think we should give Mangini another year.
He has gotten rid of the me-first primadonnas,
I never considered Winslow a me-first type of player. Yeah he wasnt thinking of the team when he got on the motorcycle. He was a young player who made a stupid mistake. Winslow showed a lot of heart and desire to win. He was on the sidelines trying to pump up the crowd more than anybody. He would also be the first guy to congatulate a teammate for making a play. The only thing that i agreed with when they traded Winslow was is bad knees. But now the team cant score in the redzone because Winslow was the teams best redzone target and he commanded a double teams with bad knees. Now Winslow probabley has more TDs than the Browns whole offense.
People can say "Hows Winslow working out for Tampa Bay?" but then you can say the same thing for Detroit. "Hows Rogers working out for Cleveland". One player, unless its a great QB, doesnt make or break the team but an injured Winslow still made the game easier for his teammates more than Heidon and Royal combined.
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and as for Parcells....he would be my number 1 choice....
My biggest problem with Parcells is that he's a short-timer. Do well or do poorly, he's going to bail after a couple of seasons no matter what. That's fine if his plan works, but if it's still in a rebuilding phase, he'll jump-ship and we wouldn't know how we'd stand.
He knows his stuff, but in recent years he's been a flip-flopper who doesn't stay in one place very long.
True...but if he installs some decent football minds in here it would be a start....MIA, as you know for sure, isn't completed....they still have some major holes and no depth but now he has brought his guys in and a plan how and who to look for on draft day/FA...remember, he would not be the GM anyway, just some kind of uber-advisor laying out a plan, a fundament...."his guys" should run teh show long term, Parcells would only be a carrying wheel....and that would be ok with me
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 40,399 |
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My biggest problem with Parcells is that he's a short-timer.
As opposed to the long tenured people we've been hiring?
yebat' Putin
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Posts: 8,015
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I suppose that kinda reply was inevitable
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 40,399 |
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I suppose that kinda reply was inevitable
Hey if we are going to keep hiring somebody new every 3 years any way, we might as well hire one that has a good track record for leaving something BETTER than he found it. 
yebat' Putin
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I think that run is going to slow down..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
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All Pro
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Name: Tom Heckert
Current team: Philadelphia Eagles
Current position: General Manager
Age: 42
Philadelphia has been the NFC’s best team this decade, making seven playoff appearances, and having just one losing season (2005) and one of the main reasons for their success can be attributed to their personnel department, which Heckert joined in 2001 after 10 years in the Miami Dolphins’ front office.
I know the masses like Holmgrem..me..I like Heckert..I have looked hard at the Eagles for years and years..they have very good drafts and a solid team..if they have a weakness it's not having top notch WR's and backers..put me down for him.
good point-forget the big names-get a guy who can do it
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 42,413 |
What if Holmgren is the VP and hires Heckert.
Even better right?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Eric Mangini will help pick new
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