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Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner says Kokinis firing forced by unforeseen events, reaffirms support for coach Eric Mangini
By Tony Grossi
November 04, 2009, 6:15PM
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Randy Lerner has made it clear that he prefers to be behind the cameras, and not in front of them in his role as owner of the Cleveland Browns. But with the team at 1-7 and dealing with a tumultuous last few days, Lerner agreed to an email Q&A with the Plain Dealer's Tony Grossi.
BEREA, Ohio -- Except for a brief chat with reporters following the 30-6 loss in Chicago on Sunday, Browns owner Randy Lerner has stayed out of the media glare while his team has slumped to 1-7.
In his first extended interview since the firing of General Manager George Kokinis, Lerner agreed to answer a list of questions via email. Lerner would not comment on the reasons for the Kokinis firing, but he indicated the need for a "strong, credible leader" is a result of Kokinis' failings as GM. Lerner also said "no" to a question about whether he envisioned changing coaches.
Because of the nature of the interview to which Lerner agreed, follow-up questions were not able to be asked.
Question: The Kokinis firing indicates the Browns are in another state of transition. How do you justify changes being made in-season after only eight games after a complete overhaul in January?
Lerner: My justification for the recent change is that circumstances dictated the action taken and I can assure you they were unforeseen.
Q: Looking back at it, were there any signs early on that this season could spin out of control like it has?
Lerner: It seems to me that the 4-12 record in 2008 and the fact that we won 24 of 64 games (37.5 percent) over the previous four seasons, combined with our record in the draft and free agency, were the early signs that it would be very challenging season for our new staff.
Q: There have been reports that the Browns regard the termination of Kokinis as "just cause." Could you elaborate on the reasons for his departure?
Lerner: We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time. Q: Is the departure of Kokinis a reflection of Eric Mangini's judgment?
Lerner: No. It would be unfair to point to Eric in explaining George's departure.
Q: One of the criticisms of your last coaching search was that you seemed in haste to hire Mangini at a time no other team was interviewing him. Do you regret not waiting and thinking it over longer?
Lerner: No, I do not regret the timing of Eric's hire. My priorities in last year's search for head coach were previous coaching experience and a comprehensive plan. I felt that he met those requirements and is also at an age and phase of his career to continue to evolve his style and approach.
Q: Jamal Lewis talked after the Bears game of retiring and appeared like the wind's been sucked out of him by events over the first half of the season. Does it concern you that a player of Lewis' stature would be so frustrated and drained at halfway through the season?
Lerner: I've spent time with Jamal and have gotten to know him. He's frustrated because of how competitive and driven he is. I do believe that he believes in his teammates and the organization and will continue to play hard for the Browns.
Question: Another criticism of your last coaching/GM search was that you hired the coach before hiring the general manager and that would leave the GM beholden to the coach. Do you regret doing that?
Lerner: I don't believe the GM was in anyway beholden to the head coach. They had distinct and clearly articulated duties and responsibilities.
Q: You spoke after the game in Chicago of the urgent priority to have a "strong, credible leader" to oversee the football operations. You had the opportunity to appoint someone in that position in January but you chose not to. Why?
Lerner: I take issue with the word urgent because it could imply that a decision is imminent or could be made hastily. I recall saying it was the "highest priority" and by that I meant that we must have a visible, proven leader on the football side. In regards to why I didn't hire that person in January, the answer is that I expected the GM to evolve into that role.
Q: If you bring in a new leader, what is the future of President Mike Keenan?
Lerner: Mike Keenan does not oversee football operations. He manages the business side and league affairs.
Q: The addition of Bernie Kosar as a consultant. What is his role and what will it be moving forward?
Lerner: Based on Bernie's background in football as well as his friendship and familiarity with people in our building, we asked him to come in and get acquainted with more people and some of the approaches we are taking. As a result, he's been helpful in a number of areas. We have not discussed specific future roles with him, however.
Q: The appearance of Kosar's addition is that he will imbed into things now to make a judgment on Mangini and report back to you. Do you see a scenario where Mangini would not be back in 2010?
Lerner: No.
Q: Dawn Aponte (vice president of football administration) has a low public profile but a much higher one internally. What is her role moving forward?
Lerner: Dawn is a very talented executive and a good person. My hope is that her role and impact will grow within our organization.
Q: Mangini brought in 10 players who played for him with the N.Y. Jets. None of them has been voted to a Pro Bowl. How do you feel about adding so many of his former players?
Lerner: I don't involve myself with personnel decisions.
Q: Kellen Winslow was traded in March and Braylon Edwards was traded in October. With all their warts, they were two offensive players who produced sporadic excitement on the field. These moves enhanced Mangini's reputation of not favoring "star" players. How do you feel about the makeup of your team?
Lerner: The makeup of our team is built on the core values laid-out by the head coach in January. I think that the type of players we have on the team are increasingly reflective of those core values.
Q: Brady Quinn was benched after 2 1/2 games. Do you think he was given a fair shot?
Lerner: Again, I do not get involved with personnel decisions or player evaluations.
Q: The appearance is that Quinn was benched so as not to achieve $11 million in contract incentives based on 70 percent playing time. How much has his contract contributed to his benching?
Lerner: None at all.
Q: Quinn has six starts in three years and now appears to be out of the picture. How do you justify that play time after trading two high draft picks for him?
Lerner: Decisions as they pertain to playing time are made by the head coach.
Q: Did Phil Savage's critical comments last week violate his contract and do you intend to pursue sanctions against him as a result of them?
Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Q: Last season ended with six straight losses amid three quarterback injuries. Until that happened the team was 4-6 -- a disappointment, but not a disaster. In retrospect, should last year have been written off just as a bad season without blowing up the organization? Do you ever think you could have stayed status quo one more year?
Lerner: I do not regret the decision that we made at the end of last season and felt the timing was right for a change. There were several factors that led to that decision, including on-field performance and the lack of an overall plan or philosophy.
Q: It's possible that one or more of the Browns remaining home games will be blacked out on local TV because of not selling out. Do you feel that's a sign of the bad economic times or a sign of your fan base's lack of confidence in what's going on? Are you concerned that more local blackouts may happen next season as a result of a bad record in 2009?
Lerner: I believe the risk of a blackout is driven far less by economic conditions and more therefore by the intense frustration of not winning for now five of the last six seasons.
Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?
Lerner: We have a head coach.
Q: You indicated last year that you wouldn't own the team forever if you thought you weren't going to be able to turn it around. As long as the team's record continues to be what it is, you're going to be questioned about the possibility of selling. Is selling a possibility after a season like this?
Lerner: No.
**********
Dave: We are so screwed.
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At least Lerner is speaking up/out,...that renders some sense of hope.
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Before everyone flips out over his "endoresment" of EM..........he had no choice. He cannot put a HCs head on a platter without firing him. Simply put it would basically destroy any since of normalcy within the locker room if he had...............Lerner has his faults, but he's not Al Davis.
What interested me is the Kok comments. I don't know exactly why Kok was fired, but there was more to it than just football. I do think that Lerner is upset that GK didn't take a more active role in leading the organization after reading this, but there is something else going on there.
Randy's dish back to Savage was priceless as well..........lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Yes I agree its good to see him speaking out on the current situations, I just hope that he's not seriously considering keeping Mangini here after the seasons over "THE" only coaches that would get my approval if I was Lerner would be Rob Ryan and our Special Teams coach, both of them have done a good job with our lack of talent on those sides of the ball. Shawn Rogers and DQ and maybe Wright, Wimbley would only be a situational LB (pass rusher) are the only guys on our defense that would be starters on any of the other 31 NFL teams and Josh Cribbs speaks for himself, he is the face of our franchise, if we could find about 20 more players of his caliber we'd have our 1st Super Bowl. Oh well theres always next year i guess and the year after that and so on, i'm depressed now 
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After the scene in Chicago on Sunday where, we're told, Lerner was completely beside himself with the continued utter incompetence of the team, we were lead to believe that changes were coming. The following day, Kokinis is escorted from the building in Berea. Now, today, we are supposed to believe that the whole Kokinis firing was purely coincidental to Lerner's tantrum in the tunnel in Chicago and, oh-by-the-way, was never intended to imply that Mangini was in any kind of trouble? This organization is completely FUBAR.
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Ohhhhhhhhh Randolph
At least we finally know that Kok was the one that made all the draft pick decisions, brought in all the Jets, traded down in the first round 3 times, traded Winslow/Edwards, recommended and forced Daboll on Mangina, and totally f*d up the QB situation.....knowing that is probably the case, I feel a lot better about the future now that Mangina can work through the processes he has set up.
Geez, just imagine if Mangina had his way. Maybe we wouldn't be 7-1 but we'd surely be at least 4-4 by now. Damn you Kokinis!!!!
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Quote:
Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?
Lerner: We have a head coach.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for Mangini. To me, this was Lerner's way of not directly answering the question. Had he said "Eric Mangini will be our coach through the end of his contract" - That means that we better get used to Mangini.
I think Lerner kept Crennel and Savage for the sake of consistency. - I think he learned what a bad policy this is.- Hence, the firing of Kokonis, and presumably, the firing of Mangin unless we win more than two games.
Last edited by RememberMuni; 11/04/09 09:14 PM.
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Quote:
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Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?
Lerner: We have a head coach.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for Mangini. To me, this was Lerner's way of not directly answering the question. Had he said "Eric Mangini will be our coach through the end of his contract" - That means that we better get used to Mangini.
I think Lerner kept Crennel and Savage for the sake of consistency. - I think he learned what a bad policy this is.- Hence, the firing of Kokonis, and presumably, the firing of Mangin unless we win more than two games.
Do you see a scenario where Mangini would not be back in 2010?
Lerner: No.
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Lerner=1
Opie=0
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
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Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Lerner=1
Opie=0
Yeah, but I thought Savages decisions made during his 4 years with the Browns have already invited a hard look. Its not like Lerner is going to go back and look at what Savage has failed at and bash him in the media. Its a waste of time if he did because he doesnt work here any more.
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Quote:
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Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Lerner=1
Opie=0
LOL, love it. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Quote:
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Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Lerner=1
Opie=0
Randolph Lerner = $xxxM
Browns Fans= Hopeless
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Quote:
At least Lerner is speaking up/out,...that renders some sense of hope.
Seriously?? He didn't say anything. Seems to me that Grossi was wasting his time... 
[color:"green"] Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.[/color]
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Quote:
What interested me is the Kok comments. I don't know exactly why Kok was fired, but there was more to it than just football. I do think that Lerner is upset that GK didn't take a more active role in leading the organization after reading this, but there is something else going on there
Ya think? Curiously, from what I've heard and read, GK wasn't really in a position to say or do anything without being overridden by "Mangenius", which I would think is predictable when U hire a coach before a GM. 
[color:"green"] Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.[/color]
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IF this email is accurate then IF any of the follow are true:
1. Randy Lerner is going to stay with Mangini.
2. Lerner is going to allow Mangini to hire another puppet.
this team is fubar....
IF Lerner allows #1 and #2 to occur, then the man is a complete DOLT and he is part of the problem and NEVER part of the solution.
IF # 1 and #2 is what Randy intends to do, then this dolt needs to just sell the team.....hear that Randy...SELL THE FREAKING TEAM!
I fear until Lerner is ousted, this team will never be any good.
Look how long the Seattle Seahawks Languished under their ownership until Paul Allen former Microsoft CEO bought them and actually cared about the team and hired good competent people.
If Mangini was doing this in Pittsburgh he would be gone allready
As a matter of fact, if this was going on anywhere else he would be gone
Randy listen to me....for once in your life man
hire TOM HECKERT
Atleast make Heckert GM if not President with an assistant of business operations
Atleast Heckert would make sound decisions.....he is the best guy for the job Randy...man up and hire the guy...
I can guarantee you that Heckerts first recommendation would be to fire that dolt Eric Mangini...guaranteed....
If Randy is going to keep Cartman, and let him hire another puppet...forget about it...might as well not even watch this team next year..they will be god awful
Mangini all by himself will squander our draft picks and this tema will be set back for atleast 5-6 years more then we allready are...
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Quote:
Quote:
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Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Lerner=1
Opie=0
Yeah, but I thought Savages decisions made during his 4 years with the Browns have already invited a hard look. Its not like Lerner is going to go back and look at what Savage has failed at and bash him in the media. Its a waste of time if he did because he doesnt work here any more.
That's the point.
He bashed him..............without actually bashing him.....which is why it was a well-crafted answer.
Look, Lerner never directly pointed the finger and blamed Opie...............not until Opie decided to do what he does best, which is open his mouth and say something STOOPID.
So, since Opie decided to try and be SELF-SERVING with his quotes by taking a stab at the Browns, Lerner made it quite clear that Opie actually IS responsible for a big part of this mess.
Opie opened his trap and Lerner shut it for him. But he did it with class, which is something Opie never understood how to do............which is part of the reason we're in this mess to begin with.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Im not so sure its Opie's fault
I mean He wanted to trade out of the #3 spot but couldn't and we were stuck with Edwards....at the time, there was no one else on the board to justify using the #3 overall on (hindsight is 20/20)
The only real pick I was angry about was trading with Baltimore and passing on Ngata
Savage made some good moves here:
1. Bentley - was the best Center in football..it was terrible luck he got hurt how he did.
2. Shaun Rogers - is a top 3 Nt in football and a 3 time Pro bowler.
3. Corey Willaims - was a beast for GB and Gb was going to franchise him until they worked out a trade. He has played well here this year, but is more a 4-3 1 gap penetrating DT than a 3-4 end.
4. Joe J - was a clutch receiver for us, and a good addition
5. Draft Joe Thomas to solidfy the Left Tackle spot.
6. Brought in Eric SteinBach who at the time was a top 5 Guard in this league.
7. Drafted Dqwell Jackson who is the best LB on this team and would start on many other teams in the league.
8. Found josh Cribbs who is arguably the best Special teams player and return man in football.
9 Draft Brady Quinn because he knew Frye wasn't going to work out.
10 Draft Eric Wright and Davin Holly - Wright is our best DB, he is an above average corner. Holly was better than Mcdonald too bad he got hurt...he should have been kept.
11. Brought in Jamal Lewis who posted 2 back to back 1,000 yard seasons and had a big year his first year here.
12. Hire Rob Chudzinski who was a good play caller, who's 2008 season was damaged due to injury.
13. Brodney Poole - has shown signs of really coming on..he is a good player...not elite, but good.
14. Drafted Jerome Harrison - who this year has been our best back and has really shown some promise when he has gotten a chance to play...the Cinci game showed he can tout the rock...he had 1 fumble, but that happens...oeverall Harrison has been solid.
15. Drafted Laurence Vickers...by far the best fullback we have had here in a long time.
16. Sign Brian Russell safety from Minn, a very good player who just wanted too much money.
17. Traded for Trent dilfer...I liked dilfer, and he just couldn't get along with the coaching staff or his tenure would have been longer...dilfer was decent...not a world beater, but I'd take Dilfer then over anyone we have now.
I am not saying Savage was a world beater, BUT the best players on this team were brought in by him. Also, Edwards, even though i hated him, is head and shoulders above any receiver we got here now. also, Savage was smart enough to keep Winslow.
Mark my words, Winslow was the cog in the wheel that made this team move....Chudzinski's Offense was centered around a good receiving TE ala Ozzie Newsome...Winslow was thay guy
Much of Quinn's struggles are because Winslow is gone...Winslow is not used properly in Tampa, Winslow commanded respect across the middle here that won't be easily replaced.
Overall, Savage's moves made us a better team..i didn't agree with all of them, but to blame this whole mess on Savage is unfair and unrealistic...our best players and Pro bowlers on this team were brought here by Savage
Savage got us our 1st Pro Bowl players since Jamir Miller and our first multiple ones since 94.....
he batted atleast .500..maybe a little better, much better then this current joke thats going on...
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I absolutely do not want Mangini back as head football coach. Does it make me an over reactor and flip-flopper? Certainly, but Mangini has proven he has learned nothing.
Whatever, I just hope they get someone in there soon who does NOT act as a puppet and instead gives Mangini talent, not just his old boys club to work with.
you had a good run Hank.
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Im not so sure its Opie's fault
I mean He wanted to trade out of the #3 spot but couldn't and we were stuck with Edwards....
Who made Braylon the face of the franchise? Who coddled him into the monster that he became?
Opie.
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3. Corey Willaims - was a beast for GB and Gb was going to franchise him until they worked out a trade. He has played well here this year, but is more a 4-3 1 gap penetrating DT than a 3-4 end.
He hasn't played well here this year  He was an ATROCIOUS investment, not just in terms of money, but in terms of what we gave up to get him.
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Overall, Savage's moves made us a better team..i didn't agree with all of them, but to blame this whole mess on Savage is unfair and unrealistic...our best players and Pro bowlers on this team were brought here by Savage
Ohhhhhh..................Now it's suddenly ALL his fault.
Savage's moves made us a better team TEMPORARILY but didn't make us a better team in the long-haul.
You tried to paint a pretty picture around Savage, but people around here know the truth. Making some good moves doesn't make him a successful GM. If they did, he'd have been hired by someone in this league, other than to be a radio announcer 
No, the bottom line is simple: Like Lerner, Opie can't be faulted for his efforts, just his execution.
He blew it with the way he catered the entire organization to Edwards, he blew it with numerous draft picks that should have turned into starters. He set the QB position on this team back YEARS by wasting a 1st-day pick on that bum Frye, he mistakenly thought Dilfer would accept being a seat-warmer, he then gave GUARANTEED money to Anderson, then blew a 1st AND a 2nd rounder on Quinn. He saddled us with a stiff in Wimbley...........Hell, let's call it like it is: Savage gave us ONE linebacker...........ONE keeper during all the years he was here.
Savage was an absolute idiot for saying the things he said in public. Remember his famous quote about "Christian players?" There are things you just don't say..........and he said about all of'em.
No, everyone understands that Opie is partially responsible for what's happening here. Any need to validate his guilt is exemplified by his quote which was recognized for exactly what it was, which is why Lerner called him out on it.
Savage tried but Savage failed. Had the Wimbley, Quinn, Anderson, Williams, Shaffer, Edwards, and Stallworth moves paid off, he'd have a job and we'd be in good shape.
But they didn't, and THAT'S the bottom line.
He made some good moves, but they don't outweigh the bad ones.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Where is DC.., DC if your out there, what did I tell you.. Randy doesn't have anything other than what we pretty much expect and know he will say.. I've been saying, now isn't the time for him to speak out or up or whatever. he needs time to get his head around this mess and find this "credible" person to lead the FOOTBALL side of things.. Another thing I knew would happen,, no matter what he says, there would be folks on here and really everywhere that would rip him for it. doesn't matter what is said,, he would get ripped.. With some folks, this guy can't win.. All we need to concern ourselves with is this,, does he appear to be willing to do whatever it takes to build a winner? I get the feeling that the answer to that question is yes.. but that's JMO...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Savage and his "decisions" are still better than Mangini and his "10 players"!!!
This aint over, if the players hate the guy they'll finish the gutting of Mangini by hook or crook.
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No question,, no matter what lerner says today, if he actually does what he says he's going to do,, the next GM will decide who stays and who goes,, My guess is that Mangini is done for at the end of the year no matter what.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?
Lerner: Oh yeah ... that's right, he did say that. Thanks!
I agree what was actually said is not quite a ringing endorsement for Mangini. I also see where Lerner said he does not see a situation where Mangini won't be back, but what else was he going to say? When an owner says something like that, it means nothing.
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This whole debacle just proves what a worthless piece of skin Mangini really is. He knows he will be canned at the end of the year yet he is going to stick around so that Lerner has to buy him out. Do the honerable thing Mangini and resign already.
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Where is DC..,
I can tell you where I'm NOT at 5:30 in the morning.... HERE.
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what did I tell you.. Randy doesn't have anything other than what we pretty much expect and know he will say..
And I said I knew that, I just wanted to hear him say it in his own words... Yes, I wanted him to say essentially NOTHING in his own words... I understand you don't get that and that's ok. 
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I've been saying, now isn't the time for him to speak out or up or whatever.
But he just did.... sort of.
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Another thing I knew would happen,, no matter what he says, there would be folks on here and really everywhere that would rip him for it. doesn't matter what is said,, he would get ripped..
And you think that would have been different if he had waited until he hired the wrong person?... err I mean the strong leader... either way, he's going to get ripped. That's not a function of time, it's a function of the fans.
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With some folks, this guy can't win..
Exactly, put this on my list of jobs I don't ever want.. President and owner of the Browns...
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All we need to concern ourselves with is this,, does he appear to be willing to do whatever it takes to build a winner?
I get the feeling that the answer to that question is yes.. but that's JMO...
I agree.. the only thing he said that was different than what I said in my own little script of what I thought he should say is that he said he doesn't see a scenario under which Mangini will NOT be back next year and in my rant I said that would be evaluated.
Overall, I'm pretty happy that he did this. He got it out in his own words but in a measured fashion where he had time to write up his answer, look at it, make sure it was exactly what he wanted to say... as opposed to an open Q&A where he would have been taped and things could have been misspoken or manipulated...
Good Job Randy.
yebat' Putin
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Before everyone flips out over his "endoresment" of EM..........he had no choice. He cannot put a HCs head on a platter without firing him. Simply put it would basically destroy any since of normalcy within the locker room if he had...............Lerner has his faults, but he's not Al Davis.
Lerners on the hook for so many salaries he can't afford to pull the plug on Manpoleon..but he can structure things to make things harder on him....
What interested me is the Kok comments. I don't know exactly why Kok was fired, but there was more to it than just football. I do think that Lerner is upset that GK didn't take a more active role in leading the organization after reading this, but there is something else going on there.
Yes.. Interesting the things he said about Kokopuffs..hoped he evolved into that type of GM he wanted...well if a person doesn't have a strong persobality at this level they aren't simply going to develop it much more..they're pretty much what they already are..
I think Manpoleon knew that and took early advantage of it..pushing him to curb..
Now why wasn't he asked about Kokopuffs not knowing about the Edwards trade???
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An e-mail interview ; how ballsy is that and then said nothing  Just for the record ( one more time ) The problem is LERNER  .. I use to feel sorry for the folks that bought PSL 's .. Not any more ...
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LOL,, I guess I just hated to see him bow down to those guys he met with on Tuesday.. I'd have rather waited until he could give us concrete information.. That comment about NOT seeing a way Mangini won't continue as HC kinda made me laugh a little.. I mean, sure, if the next GM comes in and he and Mangini sit down and work out a plan of action that the new GM thinks is good,, then I suppose it would work that Mangini stays.. Now let me ask this,,, Of all the candidates we have been throwing around, is there one that anyone thinks will want to hang thier future on a guy like Mangini? Maybe there is, I just can't think of one. If Randy says to the GM candidates that this is your coach, you are stuck with him... take it or leave it,, I can't think of one GM candidate that would accept it.. Not one.. But hey,, I've been wrong so many times before I should be used to it by now
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Randy says to the GM candidates that this is your coach, you are stuck with him... take it or leave it,, I can't think of one GM candidate that would accept it.. Not one.. .. " But hey,, I've been wrong so many times before I should be used to it by now.. " Hey , I think you finally got one right !
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If Randy says to the GM candidates that this is your coach, you are stuck with him... take it or leave it,, I can't think of one GM candidate that would accept it.. Not one..
.. " But hey,, I've been wrong so many times before I should be used to it by now.. "
Hey , I think you finally got one right !
It won't happen. Mangini's stroke is just about gone.
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Legend
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If Randy says to the GM candidates that this is your coach, you are stuck with him... take it or leave it,, I can't think of one GOOD GM candidate that would accept it.. Not one..
Fixed it...
Somebody would accept it... for that money and to be GM of an NFL team, somebody would accept it.
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I mean, sure, if the next GM comes in and he and Mangini sit down and work out a plan of action that the new GM thinks is good,, then I suppose it would work that Mangini stays..
Now let me ask this,,, Of all the candidates we have been throwing around, is there one that anyone thinks will want to hang thier future on a guy like Mangini?
Maybe there is, I just can't think of one.
This is going to depend entirely on Mangini. I'm on record as stating that I think he could be a decent coach... a coach, that's it. If he's running the draft unilaterally and making free agent deals unilaterally, this is going to fail and fail hard.
As I see it, he wants a certain type of human being to draft and pick up in FA.. the new GM is going to want talent to draft and pick up in FA... and they will butt heads and ultimately Lerner is going to have to stand behind one of them... Right now he's behind Mangini because that's all he's got....
yebat' Putin
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As I see it, he wants a certain type of human being to draft and pick up in FA.. the new GM is going to want talent to draft and pick up in FA... and they will butt heads and ultimately Lerner is going to have to stand behind one of them... Right now he's behind Mangini because that's all he's got....
I completely agree....which is why I think that the HC should tell the GM what he needs in players and the GM should go and get them (making the calls as he sees fit). An overseer of the two makes sure that the GM is listening to the coach but still has the power to make up his own mind.
Our problems seem to be that we went from a GM who didn't ever listen to his coach and just got the players he wanted that didn't necessarily fit (Phil Savage)......
to a coach who overpowered the GM and didn't let him make personel decisions.
#gmstrong
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Somebody would accept it... for that money and to be GM of an NFL team, somebody would accept it.
Someone that hasn't been in that role,,, Yeah, I can see someone taking the money and running. But Randy has said,,, that he wants a "credible" person to assume that role.. I'm not taking that to mean anybody less than someone that has been there, done that and done it successfully....I"m talking Floyd Reese or Accorsi or Ron Wolf type guys... (I think of that group, only Reece might be available)
1. None of them need the money, 2. None of them would take the job "just' for the money because thier reputations are important to them or anyone of that type.
But if we go out and get another Savage or Kokinis.. Sure, I can see that.. But then you have the credible problem...
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This is going to depend entirely on Mangini. I'm on record as stating that I think he could be a decent coach... a coach, that's it.
I thought so also...But with a respected player such as Lewis talking to the media about how he'd run things differently, I get the feeling he's not got control of the players.. you lose them, you may as well hang up your whistle.
Could he still be a good HC? I suppose so.. I just wouldn't bet on it being here.
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and they will butt heads and ultimately Lerner is going to have to stand behind one of them... Right now he's behind Mangini because that's all he's got....
Agreed, he's standing behind Mangini right now because, as you say, he's all he's got.. But there are no guarantees that it will be the case after we hire a new GM... Unless somehow, we end up with another puppet...
I saw a video today on the NFL network..
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-league/09000d5d813f3de1/The-Insiders
At around the 4:23 minute mark, there is an interesting comment that one of the insiders makes.. Not sure which one said it, but he went back to the year that Mangini was the DC in NE. I'll give you the short story, basically, Manginis Defense was giving up too many yards or points and Belichick had to step in and take control away from him...
Again, there was a lot of really stupid ideas that these "Insiders" tossed around in the piece, so you have to take it with a grain of salt,, but it is interesting.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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At least Lerner is speaking up/out,...that renders some sense of hope.
Seriously?? He didn't say anything. Seems to me that Grossi was wasting his time...
While he may have said "nothing" in your eyes, in reality he said quite a bit.
To that end, I'm about to post an article showing why I've always been 100% behind Lerner in terms of not getting in front of camera's or talking to the media.
My point has always been it's not what a person says but rather what the media interprets then implies what a person said. Because the media takes words and has free reign to manipulate them however they see fit without consequence, any time you say anything to the media you run the risk of having it turn into something else.
So, I give you PFT:
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Browns need to come clean on Kokinis firing, or say nothing at all
Posted by Mike Florio on November 5, 2009 4:58 PM ET
The Cleveland Browns were bizarrely silent for most of Monday night, as rumors and reports of the departure of G.M. George Kokinis spread like H1N1 in a house of ill repute.
And now, amid reports that Kokinis was fired not just because the team is terrible but "with cause," the Browns are likewise saying mostly nothing.
But they're saying just enough to create an environment in which speculation is certain to occur, especially in the wake of the abrupt termination of Erin O'Brien only days before Kokinis was fired.
Browns owner Randy Lerner has complicated the situation dramatically, in our opinion, by answering a long list of questions from Tony Grossi of the Cleveland Plain Dealer by e-mail.
Asked specifically to elaborate on the reasons for Kokinis' presumed "with cause" departure, Lerner said, "We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time."
That response, standing alone, implies to us that the team thinks Kokinis did something pretty bad. We'd be willing to give them a pass on this, however, because Lerner had to say something in response to the question. (That said, "We cannot comment on the matter at the present time" would have been even better.)
But the "next question"-style response from Lerner came after he defended the timing of the move by saying this: "My justification for the recent change is that circumstances dictated the action taken and I can assure you they were unforeseen."
OK, now the message is clear. The Browns are saying that Kokinis did something he shouldn't have done, without specifically saying that he did something he shouldn't have done. And we believe it's not fair to Kokinis to drop vague hints that will prompt people to wildly guess at possible reasons that likely are far worse than the worst reality the Browns could conjure.
By all indications and based on everything we've ever heard, Kokinis is a good and honorable man whose biggest mistake was to believe that a contract giving him final say over the Cleveland roster meant what it said. In eight-plus years of running this site, we've never heard a bad thing about Kokinis -- and we've heard plenty of bad things about plenty of other coaches and personnel executives.
Though we're not saying that Lerner should roll out the overhead projector and engage in a two-hour Davis-Kiffin rant regarding Kokinis, we believe that, if the Browns believe Kokinis did something to justify a termination with cause, the Browns need to say what it is, or they need to say absolutely nothing at all about the matter.
Our guess? The Browns are deliberately dancing around the edges of the situation in the hopes of squeezing Kokinis into accepting a settlement of his contract. If the truth is that Kokinis was made merely to be the scapegoat for coach Eric Mangini and that the Browns are now trying to trump up a case for a "with cause" termination in the hopes that Kokinis will take 50 cents on the dollar as to what he otherwise would have earned, we hope that Kokinis sticks to his guns and fights this thing hard.
So here we are.........Lerner does what fans want him to do, which is to answer questions and "show" his interest.
So where has it landed him? With a media outlet essentially putting more pressure on Lerner to come further out into the open so he can talk more.
So what if he does? What then? It STILL won't be enough for the media, who'll want him to come out more and say even more.
Lerner is a wise man to stay out of the media's camera's. The only thing to be gained by diving out even more into these waters is to subject himself to more criticism and likely eventually slip up and say something that the media can sink their teeth into.
LERNER, you keep doing what your doing. Don't reply to ANY more email interview requests, and DON'T get in front of a camera. You won't win. You CAN'T win.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Been saying it for two days now Toad,, Lerner would have been better off shutting up, not talking until he had concrete things to day.. he can't win, as the article and your comments prove....
And that's part of why I think those two guys, well meaning or not, should have accepted the situation and called off the protest. But they clearly have some other agenda..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Lerner: "We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time."
Florio: "We cannot comment on the matter at the present time" would have been even better
Because those 2 comments are completely different? Florio is a rumor-mill swirling hack....I don't really fault him for it though because that is generally what the media has become these days as internet clicks rule the day and you have to say pretty outlandish things to top the other rumor-mill swirling hacks out there.
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Adding to that, whatever Florio may be, he's been connected to the NFL for years, and to top it off, even if he were a POS, he was still well-loved enough to be picked up by The Sporting News, and has been making regular appearances on national TV.
The media is what it is, and exposing yourself to it makes you play on THEIR turf and by THEIR rules, never the other way around.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So where has it landed him? With a media outlet essentially putting more pressure on Lerner to come further out into the open so he can talk more.
So what if he does? What then? It STILL won't be enough for the media, who'll want him to come out more and say even more.
The media has a name. It is P.T. Barnum, because they are never at their happiest unless there's a circus going on. That is what they want and they will push to get it if need be.
There is virtually no difference between, "We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time.", and, "We cannot comment on the matter at the present time", which Florio said would have been better, (a better way to say it).
(not at liberty = cannot),
(discuss = comment),
(details = matter) and
(at this time = present time)
There's no difference in the two ways of saying the same thing but Florio is pushing for what? More from Lerner.
Just like you say.
After I submitted this I see no logo has already pointed this out.
I'm still leaving mine.
I worked hard on it.
Last edited by ddubia; 11/05/09 07:50 PM.
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And that's part of why I think those two guys, well meaning or not, should have accepted the situation and called off the protest. But they clearly have some other agenda..
You saw the Drennan show these guys were on. They said they'd call off the protest if Lerner held a press conference and spoke to media.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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you should leave yours....you did a better job at showing it.
in fact, i think you should leave your post in the comment section for Florio to read
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lerner's email Q&A with
Grossi; reaffirms support of
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