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I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I didn't answer because my answer isn't there...
Keep him until you find the right competent GM/Football Operations guy, then let them sit down and see if they can get on the same page about roles and responsibilities and direction... and if that GM has a comfort level with Mangini, he stays, if he doesn't then he goes...
This team is a rudderless ship, SOMEBODY has to have control of it and Lerner has made it very clear that he doesn't want to be that involved.. right now it's Mangini so Lerner is going to have to decide if this new football ops guy is going to have that kind of control or not.... if he still has to answer to Mangini then you could bring in Vince Lombardi and it's not going to matter.
yebat' Putin
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Keep him until you find the right competent GM/Football Operations guy, then let them sit down and see if they can get on the same page about roles and responsibilities and direction... and if that GM has a comfort level with Mangini, he stays, if he doesn't then he goes...
At this moment, that's probably the best answer anyone can come up with.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Fire him yesterday. He is an unmitigated disaster.
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I don't think he is as bad as the press makes him out to be.
From his pressers he seems like a nice guy. He has an idea of how things should be run---and he runs a tight ship.
I can certainly understand that the dude has enemies. Anytime you give the NFL a black eye by bringing up Spygate you are sure to catch the ire of someone.
And as soon as that happens, the press can find those who don't like Mangini and fill their stories with quotes from some bitter NFL "source" who seeks nothing more than to rip the guy.
Because of this, I don't put a whole lot of stock in these articles that diss the coach.
When he brought up spygate he made a lot of enemies in the league. These people will hate him until he is gone. But that doesn't mean that he is a bad guy, or even a bad coach.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Keep him until you find the right competent GM/Football Operations guy, then let them sit down and see if they can get on the same page about roles and responsibilities and direction... and if that GM has a comfort level with Mangini, he stays, if he doesn't then he goes...
+1
Let the new GM make the call. If he likes EM, go with it. If not, can him. Those two have to be on the same page.
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I don't think he is as bad as the press makes him out to be.
From his pressers he seems like a nice guy. He has an idea of how things should be run---and he runs a tight ship.
I don't disagree with that. That's the first thing the new Honcho is going to have to get his head around.. he's going to have to watch things develop, chat with the players, etc and get a feel for the whole situation to find out if the players are REALLY responding to him... That is a HUGE part of this whole equation.
yebat' Putin
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I didn't answer because my answer isn't there...
Same here. And, it stinks because I can't see the results without voting.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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LIbertatem Defendimus!!
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#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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My other answer, if I had to decide today, is somewhere between keep him if he wins a couple games and keep him for 4 years... I don't know if we'll win a couple games or not, my guess is that we will lose to the good teams and might squeak out a win against KC or Jags or one of the other bottom teams (does that really mean we've improved?)... but I'm leaning toward giving him one more year to right this ship... if a respectable GM came in and let him go I wouldn't be heartbroken, but if he's still here next year I won't be all that upset either and won't carry over a big grudge from this year.
My big thing is the players... If the players still have faith in his direction and want to play for him, that would be huge in my book as to whether he stays or goes (and I'm talking about a select few players JT, DQ, etc... ).. if they don't have faith, then you either have to start replacing players or replace the coach... and replacing the coach is much easier...
yebat' Putin
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Fire him yesterday. He is an unmitigated disaster.
Ditto.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I really don't see the point in firing him after this year.
I saw a post on another board that summed things up pretty well.
You bring in a guy to build a house on a piece of land, he razes the ramshackle heap that existed on that piece of land---but before he can build the house you fire him cuz you think that the pile of wreckage looks like crap.
Of course it looks like crap!!!!!
Mangini put himself in a great position for the offseason----that cannot be denied. And there is a real good possibility that we could do some real building going into next year!!!
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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That's a good analogy.....
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For the most part, and I don't mean to waffle here, I never really was on the bandwagon, but I generally am a staunch supporter and hoped for the best in having hired EM. This experiment is over.
However,....I do wish there was an indication that -- in the interest of continuity -- Mangini could follow in the footsteps of Marvin Lewis. Maybe the Bengals will, as always, fold late and wisp away, but he's got that team headed in the right direction. I'm just not sure if that's blind luck, or an end to process in having stuck with him.
I just don't see that with EM.
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Quote:
I saw a post on another board that summed things up pretty well.
You bring in a guy to build a house on a piece of land, he razes the ramshackle heap that existed on that piece of land---but before he can build the house you fire him cuz you think that the pile of wreckage looks like crap.
Of course it looks like crap!!!!!
the problem with your analogy, and why it's hard to look at it that way is this... what if the builder razed the house and left you a pile of crap wreckage, then you had to look at it for a year? You would want him fired too.
I'm not saying fire him but that's the problem with the NFL... you have from February to June to work, then wherever "the house" is at that point, well you have to live with it until next February.. yea, you can make minor improvements at other times and try to coach up the guys on the team but you really have a few months around the draft to REALLY change the complexion of the house...
I can look at a crap pile of wreckage for a week, but to look at one for 6 months.. it does get old.
yebat' Putin
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Here's a better analogy:
Garbage in, garbage out.
Mangini simply has no prior track record of success for us to entrust our organizational future to if we can get a proven coach for next year. I have no desire to wait several years to determine if Mangini can be a successful NFL coach or not. All we know is that Mangini was garbage with the Jets (who fired him after just 3 seasons) and now he is garbage here. I say don't risk the franchise on a prayer that Mangini will be the next Belichek, let someone else take that risk.
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I say don't risk the franchise on a prayer that Mangini will be the next Belichek, let someone else take that risk.
That's probably what the Patriots thought.
yebat' Putin
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After we lost to Denver, I was laughed at for creating a poll in here as to whom the Browns coach will be in 2010.
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Quote:
Here's a better analogy:
Garbage in, garbage out.
Mangini simply has no prior track record of success for us to entrust our organizational future to if we can get a proven coach for next year. I have no desire to wait several years to determine if Mangini can be a successful NFL coach or not. All we know is that Mangini was garbage with the Jets (who fired him after just 3 seasons) and now he is garbage here. I say don't risk the franchise on a prayer that Mangini will be the next Belichek, let someone else take that risk.
I would gladly take 3 seasons of what Mangini was with the Jets. 2 winning seasons in 3 years, one in the playoffs. That's better than what we have had here.
And do the Jets look better this season without him? They look on pace to be right around that 7-9 to 10-6 mark. Mangini took them to 9-7 last year.
Mangini may or may not be a good HC in time for the Browns....but to claim he has no prior track record of success is false.
#gmstrong
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The better analogy is what if you were paying the guy to build a nice mcmansion, but when you saw the foundation going in you realized it was for a double-wide.
That's what you will get with Mangini, a double-wide when you were expecting a mcmansion.
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I didn't answer because my answer isn't there...
Keep him until you find the right competent GM/Football Operations guy, then let them sit down and see if they can get on the same page about roles and responsibilities and direction... and if that GM has a comfort level with Mangini, he stays, if he doesn't then he goes...
This team is a rudderless ship, SOMEBODY has to have control of it and Lerner has made it very clear that he doesn't want to be that involved.. right now it's Mangini so Lerner is going to have to decide if this new football ops guy is going to have that kind of control or not.... if he still has to answer to Mangini then you could bring in Vince Lombardi and it's not going to matter.
I voted for dump his butt ASAP - with the caveat that ASAP is when we get the GM or prez or whomever is going to run things, I guess the buzzword is czar right now.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
I saw a post on another board that summed things up pretty well.
You bring in a guy to build a house on a piece of land, he razes the ramshackle heap that existed on that piece of land---but before he can build the house you fire him cuz you think that the pile of wreckage looks like crap.
Of course it looks like crap!!!!!
the problem with your analogy, and why it's hard to look at it that way is this... what if the builder razed the house and left you a pile of crap wreckage, then you had to look at it for a year? You would want him fired too.
I'm not saying fire him but that's the problem with the NFL... you have from February to June to work, then wherever "the house" is at that point, well you have to live with it until next February.. yea, you can make minor improvements at other times and try to coach up the guys on the team but you really have a few months around the draft to REALLY change the complexion of the house...
I can look at a crap pile of wreckage for a week, but to look at one for 6 months.. it does get old.
The bigger problem of his analogy has already been stated.. but if you were told that the builder was going to build you the Taj Mahal and as he was building it, it started looking like Joe's Crab Shack... I would expect for him to be fired..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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but if you were told that the builder was going to build you the Taj Mahal and as he was building it, it started looking like Joe's Crab Shack... I would expect for him to be fired..
To be fair though, if you believed he was building you the Taj Mahal, and you expected it to be done or even close to done in a year, then shame on YOU.... After a year you'd have a concrete foundation in the ground and some dirt moved... so the question is then... Does Mangini have the foundation in the ground by way of his first offseason and the draft picks he has accumulated?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
but if you were told that the builder was going to build you the Taj Mahal and as he was building it, it started looking like Joe's Crab Shack... I would expect for him to be fired..
To be fair though, if you believed he was building you the Taj Mahal, and you expected it to be done or even close to done in a year, then shame on YOU.... After a year you'd have a concrete foundation in the ground and some dirt moved... so the question is then... Does Mangini have the foundation in the ground by way of his first offseason and the draft picks he has accumulated?
Well no wonder we stink. If Mangini is doing construction......putting in foundations and what not, he doesn't have TIME to coach.
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If fire the owner was an option, I'd choose that. It ultimately starts with Lerner.
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Forums DawgTalk K-9 Consensus Mangini should stay on, or go?
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