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Thanks for the article....here's something you "last straw" Mangini guys should read:
-- Folks who blame this season on last season's collection of players are missing the point as well.
The Browns are not even competing this season.
They have lost games by 14, 21, 31, 3, 13, 28 and 24 points.
That's 19.1 points per game (more than two touchdowns and two field goals), with one win by three.
Last season their first seven losses were by 18, 4, 18, 3, 10, 4 and 10 points.
That's an average of 9.5 points, with four wins mixed in.
This season's mess is a creation of this season's staff. Period.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I think Mangini should get another year. We are in rebuilding mode, and he has put us in a great position to improve the team this offseason. He knows how to build a team--he has done it before. So I am all for letting Mangini go ahead with the plan and look for improvement next year. I am sick of Lerner caving to public opinion and firing these guys every year, or few years. If he fires Mangini at years end, then he minds well fire himself cuz he obviously doesn't have the fortitude needed to make a decision and stick with it. Mangini came out in this article and told everyone that he trying to lay the foundation for a good football team---and he said: This isn't something that occurs overnight!!!!!! It takes time to build a winning program. You don't just switch coaches and have a dynasty. Especially if you are the Cleveland Browns. You know the Browns right? The team with no real identity on the field or off. The team with the FO in constant turmoil, the team that constantly is in the hiring/firing proces, the team that is a joke in the NFL. Yea, you don't turn THOSE browns around in a season. It doesn't happen!!! Mangini is the right guy for this job. He told me that when he shipped K2 and Braylon. He has a plan to rebuild this team from the ground up---and I am all for that. Looking at the past ten year---I don't know why people are so against that. Everyone is citing our record on the field for why Mangini needs to go. How about we wait to see how things go the rest fo the year. How about we give him the offseason and see what this team looks like next year before we start talking about him not knowing what he's doing. We keep hiring and firing, hiring and firing, starting over, and starting over. How about we grow some stones and actually stick with a guy and let him rebuild the team? People say he says all the right things but doesn't execute. He is in the process of executing. He shipped K2, he shipped Braylon. He unloaded the guys that didn't get it here. He stockpiled draft picks, he is building through the draft. He is instilling discipline, He is executing his plan. And while we haven't seen a whole lot right now---its still early in terms of rebuilding a football program and establishing an identity. He has to aquire more and more players. He has to address the holes that become evident as we go through the season. He has put himself in a position where he can address these holes in both the draft and through free agency. IDK why people always want people fired in Cleveland. Its sad. Even Cincy has the guts to stick with a coach through tough times and it is paying off. Here in Cleveland, we are rebuilding again---and talking about firing the coach and................... rebuilding again. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Q: There was a suggestion that he was nailed to the bench because of his contract and an escalator clause that rewards him the more he plays. Any truth to that?
Mangini: No, absolutely not. With all the different contracts ... I don't know what the incentives are. But that wouldn't make my decision
Looking at this quote, I think Mangini answered it fine, and people are reading into it.. The reporter is asking him whether Quinns contract incentives put him on the bench. Mangini gives a definitive "No, absolutely not." Then he goes on to say that "with all the different contracts he doesn't know what the incentives are." This is probably true. He probably doesn't know what all the incentives are on all the different contracts on the team.
Then he goes on, "but that wouldn't make my decision, [even if he did]." This reads exactly how it sounds, that wouldn't make his decision.
I don't see him lying here. If he had said that he didn't know the terms of Quinns contract---then he would probably be lying, cuz its been brought up a thousand times by rabid Quinn fans.. But wording it the way he did, he is saying that he doesn't know the incentives on "all the different contracts." And I seriously doubt he knows the incentives on every deal on the team.
He goes on to say that that wouldn't make his decision. Which is exactly the right thing to say, and the right way to conduct business.
I think that many people have it out for Mangini and they are looking for more and more reason to get rid of teh guy.
I think Django has infected the board with all his venom.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Tyler, this is one of the few times I agree with you. Some will read into what they want.
DC said earlier that these guys should never talk to the press. I agree with that statement also. Just look at this thread. It was a very good article and I thought Mangini laid out his thoughts very well. The problem is some will read into it anyway they want and twist some things around to look for a hidden meaning.
I'm not happy with the current staff but given the right front office people to run this team and I think Mangini can be a good HC. I think he needs help with building the team. That is where bringing in a strong GM/President comes in. However if that guy can't work with Mangini then he needs to have the ability to fire him and bring in his own man to do the job.
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Quote:
DC said earlier that these guys should never talk to the press. I agree with that statement also. Just look at this thread. It was a very good article and I thought Mangini laid out his thoughts very well. The problem is some will read into it anyway they want and twist some things around to look for a hidden meaning.
I also have a problem with the cynicism... the "he's just trying to save his job" attitude.. if they guys don't talk they are being aloof and secretive, if they do a lot of interviews they are media whores, if they say they like some of the things they see even in a bad situation they are unrealistic, if they blast the team for being awful they are "losing the team"... There is really nothing they can do to please everybody.... except win.
(and as we know in Cleveland, there are those who will then dissect HOW they won...  and whether it was good enough.)
yebat' Putin
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Some people are wooed by a silver tongue. Others aren't.
Mangini could give a local guy access for an afternoon but they already know what kind of guy he is. He needed a guy who didn't know him to write this puff piece. Then he could go into full "leader of men" mode to spew this BS.
The guy is a liar and a megalomaniac.
I hope we get a true standup guy who's able to come in and right this ship. Mangini can't leave fast enough for me.
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Tell us how you really feel Hel....don't hold back now...don't let any bias show.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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The guy is a liar and a megalomaniac.
I don't believe this at all.
Its baseless. You don't even know the guy!!
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I don't know....
Do you know Mangini personally and can you personally attest that he is a liar and megalomaniac????? Or are you taking pre-conceived notions created by a hate mongering media to make a comment like that?
I mean I am not exactly happy with the results to this point either....And I may agree or disagree with some of the moves he has made....I may even be completely disgusted with aspects of the product on the field.....but I am definitely not got to comment upon his character based upon a ton of misinformation and supposition.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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It's when he says things like this that really bother me. Quote:
I really think at different points this season we've been competitive.
One half against the Vikings. The Bengals game.
I wouldn't qualify the Bills game as 'competitive'.
I don't like the guy, I don't hate the guy. But he certainly has some strong Butch Davis denial in him.
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Quote:
I don't know....
Do you know Mangini personally and can you personally attest that he is a liar and megalomaniac????? Or are you taking pre-conceived notions created by a hate mongering media to make a comment like that?
I mean I am not exactly happy with the results to this point either....And I may agree or disagree with some of the moves he has made....I may even be completely disgusted with aspects of the product on the field.....but I am definitely not got to comment upon his character based upon a ton of misinformation and supposition.
To be fair. No I do not know him nor do I know anyone that knows him well.
But the preponderance of information about him over the years, with me paying close attention to him this year, leads me to the conclusion above.
I believe that I can tell when someone is selling a bill of goods. This interview was Exhibit A. If you're unable to see that or gleam that from this piece then I believe you're foolish.
Just my opinion as always. 
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Yeah, I can see that...but that never bothered me about Butch...I always considered it as part of the job as a Head Coach. Dealing with the media, and trying to keep a positive spin on things...
What always dug into me about Butch was that he played favorites in the lockeroom as well as the FO and he couldn't draft for squat...Not to mention his lack of adjustments on the field...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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He has never come off this way. Not in any pressers, or appearances, or anything.
He tore down the roster and is putting an emphasis on building through the draft---which is something Browns fans have wanted for a long time.
He is in control to bring in the guys he feels he needs. Which is a positive step considering the supposed problems that existed between RAC/Savage. I thought his draft this year wasn't as bad as many make is out to be. Right now three of his picks are starting, and all of them are seeing action on the field. He has a solid scouting department in place, as well as a pro personnel department. Both headed by experienced guys.
I want him to get at least another year to see what he can do with 11 more picks and an entire offseason to aquire FA's. He now has had an entire season to evaluate our team, its strengths and weakness, where the holes are, etc.
I want to see another year with him in charge.
You gotta give a coach a chance to get all his guys in place, and his culture in place.
Here in Cleveland, we had nothing. We had a couple primadonnas and very little discipline. Our locker room was a joke.
That is changed now, and it will continue to develop as Mangini brings in more players and they work more and more.
The final goal is a solid organization that will be consistent winners.
Lerner needs to stop caving to fan pressure and just let his coaches and FO people do their jobs.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
This interview was Exhibit A.
How should have he responded then.....that would have pleased you?
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
What always dug into me about Butch was that he played favorites in the lockeroom as well as the FO and he couldn't draft for squat...Not to mention his lack of adjustments on the field...
I would say we're seeing elements of that currently, no?
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But the preponderance of misinformation about him over the years, with me paying close attention to him this year, leads me to the conclusion above.
There I fixed it for you...
And for the record this article hasn't swayed me in any direction...but seeing that the info came from a reporter who actually went inside Berea and not from hearsay....it definitely holds more weight than the tabloid junk we have been reading since we hired the guy...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I see him doing what Belicheck and Parcells always did when they went someplace new which is bringing in a lot of guys he was familiar with to instill his system. Think Pepper Johnson et al....I don't think any of us consider Barton as his solution to the middle linebacker position. But once at the facility I don't see him giving them preferential treatment as Butch did with many of his players.
Butch on the other hand felt he knew better than everyone else and just flat out disregarded the scouting department because Gerrard Warren was going to be a monster...and he could also trade with best of them as evidenced by the fleecing Detroit gave us.
I see 2 different intents here. And we have yet to truly see how Mangini's draft will turn out...Not the best of starts to be sure...but time will tell.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
Quote:
This interview was Exhibit A.
How should have he responded then.....that would have pleased you?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
Quote:
This interview was Exhibit A.
How should have he responded then.....that would have pleased you?
How about a little humility? That would have pleased me.
I'm guessing that I'm probably a few years older and have seen a few more hucksters than you. It's something that develops over time but one day you'll be able to spot a guy trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes.
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I think Mangini should get another year. We are in rebuilding mode, and he has put us in a great position to improve the team this offseason.
You know...this might make my sig soon ....no way but up, huh?
Oh and for "what should he be saying":
I wish he had some bottom line accountability like Romeo....instead he jabbers about having a roster of good guys and making a 4th down stop while getting blown out by a struggling team or cutting down penalties....
if he had any backbone he would have gone WITH his friend when he was asked to go....but I don't expect this trait to surface all of a sudden given his snake like BIO...he is what he DOES....and it's documented...so don't give me the "you don't know him" BS
Why does Bill Parcells not talk to him anymore? That's the kind of question you guys have to ask....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Why does Bill Parcells not talk to him anymore? That's the kind of question you guys have to ask....
I've seen you state this a few times, but haven't seen it in any articles. Mangini in his interview mentioned not talking to Belicheck in a long while, but nothing on Parcells.
It could be out there, but I would appreciate a link (haven't found anything in my primitive searches). Thanks.
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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I think Mangini should get another year. We are in rebuilding mode, and he has put us in a great position to improve the team this offseason.
He knows how to build a team--he has done it before.
So I am all for letting Mangini go ahead with the plan and look for improvement next year.
I am sick of Lerner caving to public opinion and firing these guys every year, or few years.
If he fires Mangini at years end, then he minds well fire himself cuz he obviously doesn't have the fortitude needed to make a decision and stick with it.
Mangini came out in this article and told everyone that he trying to lay the foundation for a good football team---and he said:
This isn't something that occurs overnight!!!!!!
It takes time to build a winning program. You don't just switch coaches and have a dynasty. Especially if you are the Cleveland Browns.
You know the Browns right?
The team with no real identity on the field or off. The team with the FO in constant turmoil, the team that constantly is in the hiring/firing proces, the team that is a joke in the NFL.
Yea, you don't turn THOSE browns around in a season. It doesn't happen!!!
Mangini is the right guy for this job. He told me that when he shipped K2 and Braylon. He has a plan to rebuild this team from the ground up---and I am all for that.
Looking at the past ten year---I don't know why people are so against that.
Everyone is citing our record on the field for why Mangini needs to go. How about we wait to see how things go the rest fo the year. How about we give him the offseason and see what this team looks like next year before we start talking about him not knowing what he's doing.
We keep hiring and firing, hiring and firing, starting over, and starting over.
How about we grow some stones and actually stick with a guy and let him rebuild the team?
People say he says all the right things but doesn't execute.
He is in the process of executing. He shipped K2, he shipped Braylon. He unloaded the guys that didn't get it here. He stockpiled draft picks, he is building through the draft. He is instilling discipline, He is executing his plan.
And while we haven't seen a whole lot right now---its still early in terms of rebuilding a football program and establishing an identity.
He has to aquire more and more players. He has to address the holes that become evident as we go through the season. He has put himself in a position where he can address these holes in both the draft and through free agency.
IDK why people always want people fired in Cleveland. Its sad.
Even Cincy has the guts to stick with a coach through tough times and it is paying off.
Here in Cleveland, we are rebuilding again---and talking about firing the coach and...................
rebuilding again.
Well said, I agree!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
This interview was Exhibit A.
How should have he responded then.....that would have pleased you?
There is not a single thing he could have done to appease some people because people are going to take away from something like this what they want to. It's not really all that different from a politician... if you already view them as a good person with good intentions then you will interpret their speeches and articles that way, if you don't, then you won't. There is precious little he can do to change that.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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Why does Bill Parcells not talk to him anymore? That's the kind of question you guys have to ask....
I've seen you state this a few times, but haven't seen it in any articles. Mangini in his interview mentioned not talking to Belicheck in a long while, but nothing on Parcells.
It could be out there, but I would appreciate a link (haven't found anything in my primitive searches). Thanks.
You're right, my bad...he was talking about Parcells earlier and I was sure he was asked about him...still not sure though after re-reading it.
Anyway, Im pretty sure he would have mentioned communicating with Parcells IF it was the case...I mean, the guy pulled out articles from the 2000 Pats to make a point....he is THAT far down....and otoh I haven't heard a bleep from Parcells about EM in the last 4 years....
I think overall it's pretty evident that he is not respected by anyone in the NFL today....snitching on Beli was big no-go and also damaged the NFL as a whole....he's clearly a persona non grata since
#gmstrong
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See post and link above. I respect Patrick McManaman, and while obviously I have no idea about the credibility of his source, if he printed it, I'd say he thinks its pretty true.
He and Ohio.com is a credible source and thank you so much for re-digging it up. I apologize if I came off as though I were calling you out for making something up. That was hasty on my part. You are hereby absolved of any accusation of wrong doing by my dumbass.
Once again, I apologize for the way I attacked you.
#gmstrong
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Im pretty sure he would have mentioned communicating with Parcells IF it was the case...I mean, the guy pulled out articles from the 2000 Pats to make a point....he is THAT far down....and otoh I haven't heard a bleep from Parcells about EM in the last 4 years....
He didn't mention talking to a lot of people that he knows... I think you are reaching on this one to assume a negative because he didn't bring it up. He was a defensive assistant with Belichick as his DC when Parcells was the head coach for 3 years... He also coached under Ted Marchibroda and he didn't mention him either...
yebat' Putin
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He didn't mention talking to a lot of people that he knows... I think you are reaching on this one to assume a negative because he didn't bring it up. He was a defensive assistant with Belichick as his DC when Parcells was the head coach for 3 years... He also coached under Ted Marchibroda and he didn't mention him either...
See? Nobody likes him....he's the antichrist
#gmstrong
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But wording it the way he did, he is saying that he doesn't know the incentives on "all the different contracts." And I seriously doubt he knows the incentives on every deal on the team.
You're missing the point. The subject was Quinn, not every deal on the team.
The subject was Quinn.
You're making it sound like, "No, absolutely not." (the subject here being Quinn), "With all the different contracts ... I don't know what the incentives are". (now the subject has changed to other player's contracts and he's not addressing the subject of Quinn at all anymore), "But that wouldn't make my decision, [even if he did]", (now back to Quinn being the subject.)
They were talking about Quinn. No one else. He lied.
It's the kind of slip-up Patrick Jane would have noticed that would have sent that ... to prison.
#gmstrong
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Since I'm on a roll I have to mention this quote from one of my earlier posts... Quote:
It used to be on here that when someone made such a statement that they needed to provide a link to a credible/valid source such information; at least give credit to said source. Now it seems anyone can say anything and it blows by like it doesn't matter.
That was in no way a reference to the way the Refs are doing their jobs. They're a fine lot those guys. I was meaning that seldom do I see posters question statements that are made that seem suspect. It used to be, "Do you have a link for that?", was used frequently as a means from one poster to another to keep the facts in check. Lately though I see many things go unchecked.
I made that statement in the quote above for just that purpose. Luckily enough the poster did have a link which made me look stupid. But stupid or not I learned from the article in which he linked to plus it garnered a bit more discussion from it.
I just wanted to make it clear that I was not dissing the Refs for blowing past unsubstantiated claims.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
See post and link above. I respect Patrick McManaman, and while obviously I have no idea about the credibility of his source, if he printed it, I'd say he thinks its pretty true.
He and Ohio.com is a credible source and thank you so much for re-digging it up. I apologize if I came off as though I were calling you out for making something up. That was hasty on my part. You are hereby absolved of any accusation of wrong doing by my dumbass.
Once again, I apologize for the way I attacked you.
I will toss in my mea culpa as well.
#GMSTRONG
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I hope we get a true standup guy who's able to come in and right this ship. Mangini can't leave fast enough for me.
^^This.
I'm one of those 'give people a second chance' type of guys. But I've seen and heard enough. The article was nice and showed a different side of the guy, but the timing of the article screams 'damage control'.
The product on the field is garbage. Good riddance.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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He has never come off this way. Not in any pressers, or appearances, or anything.
He tore down the roster and is putting an emphasis on building through the draft---which is something Browns fans have wanted for a long time.
He is in control to bring in the guys he feels he needs. Which is a positive step considering the supposed problems that existed between RAC/Savage. I thought his draft this year wasn't as bad as many make is out to be.
I agree with you when you say the draft isnt as bad as many made it out to be. He went in with 4 draft picks. Saved a bunch of cap space and if the Browns did use the #5 pick, they would still be 1-7 with an over priced rookie being labled a bust because he cant carry the team on his back. We already saw that with Edwards, Brown, Couch, and Warren.
You say that Mangini bringing his guys in is a positive step from the problems Savage/Crennel had and how they co-existed? They got along in year 1. You cant say that about kokins and Mangini. Mangini handpicked Kokinis.
If Mangini isnt a liar, he is a flip flopper. He is qouted as saying that whoever he picks as his opening day QB, that he is going to stick with him. That didnt last long. For a coach that trades his star WR and the GM doesnt know about it until he saw it on SC, you actually believe that he didnt know his QBs contract situation. Thats the most important position. If Crennel said that I would believe him but Mangini pretty much was the GM, I would hope he knew the QBs contract situation, I read an article where he was aked about it in preseason. He knew. He was asked about it multiple times.
You were pretty high on starting DA and sticking with him thru next year. How do you feel about Mangini going back to Quinn? What do you feel is the differance between now and halfway thru the Baltimore game?
I wasnt too high on the Mangini getting hired as coach so soon, but I was wishing for the best. I questioned some of the little off the field stuff but as long as he got wins, I didnt care about the off the field stuff. Just wondered where he was going with it. I also was mad at the media for grilling every little thing he did. I obviously want Mangini back next year. Why? Because if he is back next year then that means Quinn has turned his career around and the Browns finished the season respectible ala Shottenheimers first and only year in Washington. He started 0-8 and finished 8-8. I would stick with mangini with similiar results. Then that means Quinn is in and they wont need to use a high draft pick on another QB. They could build a team around him minus Edwards. If the Browns finish losing to Detroit and KC and still have an average losing by almost 20 points and Quinn cant return to pre Mangini form, I want him out.
But if mangini is still here, then thats what the new 'football czar' wants and I have no choice but to hope he knows what he is doing and to root for him.
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It's a red-letter day when Derden makes more sense than 75% of the posters on this board.
I suspect that a good number of the Dawgs who want Mangini gone fall into 3 categories:
1. Those who didn't want him in the first place, for whatever reason
2. Those who got their cues from the media's spin on him
3. Those who have been influenced by other posters on the boards.
The rest may have good points for their antipathy, but MIGHT be a bit premature in demanding his ouster.
I get that he isn't charismatic, engaging, animated on the sidelines, or particularly likable... but none of that matters to me. What does matter is this:
Whether you believe him or not, Mangini just laid out the basics of his plan for rebuilding the team for us... and it sounds a lot like the same philosophy that was employed by Paul Brown- founder of the team, and father of Modern American Football. The same philosophy that has worked for decades, and is being currently employed by teams like the Steelers, Colts and Patriots. (Ya picking up on a theme here?) If you ask me, that's a pretty damned good model to follow. Mangini didn't get into the specifics of each and every position, but he did lay out the absolute essentials for the one thing this team has been missing since the return- a culture of character, accountability and team-first mentality. Paul Brown's teams had it in spades... and the last time we saw it here in Cleveland was during the late 80's, when we were coming oh so close.
So what if he's trying to do it with sub-standard talent at present? We're the Browns, for Gawdsake. We've been plagued with sub-standard talent since 1999... and we've also had players riding motorcycles into trees (in breach of contract), players who have been arrested, players who have chartered helicopter flights (against the orders of coaches) to college games and missed team meetings, players who have been involved with drugs and stabbed by crazy girlfriends, players who have partied after-hours and run down pedestrians, FA's and high-drafted players who have raped the team's coffers for insufficient on-field play (and got away with it), players who have [insert random foolishness here]...
I said it a couple months ago, and I'm reiterating now: one of the most necessary things The Browns have been lacking was a hardass coach who could instill order into this bunch of underachieving, me-first individuals. If it takes some bleach, a stiff brush and some elbow grease to clean out the mold at the foundation... and trade-away surgery to excise cancerous tumors from the body, then who's to say that's a bad thing?
Watch HGTV this weekend. There's a home renovation show called "Holmes on Homes," where a guy comes into a trainwreck of a house construction situation, and fixes it the right way... from foundation to roofing, if necessary. The first stages of the rebuilds are always ugly- and the most important part of a successful fix. Mangini (or any coach that would have been hired into this situation) is in that "fugly" phase that MUST come before the construction can take place, and the client can start to see where the project is heading. 'Pretty' comes later... much later, in our case. Savage was the previous contractor- the one who slapped some drywall over the real problems, added a few gaudy fixtures, and tried to sell this 'ghetto construct' to a starved and willing client. And a good number of us bought it- hook, line and sinker.
I'll take lower-quality talent that fits the philosophy for a year or two, and do so gladly... if I can see progress during Year Two and beyond... and let's face an inescapable reality here- we are only at GAME EIGHT of an entirely new regime.
Browns fans used to give new coaches at least 2 years before they started hauling out the pitchforks, lighting the torches, collecting feathers and heating up the vats of tar. Now we do it BEFORE THE BYE WEEK OF SEASON ONE? How desperate are you people that you're absolutely certain this guy needs to be jettisoned?
I love'em like family, but I swear... sometimes, Browns fans resemble unruly teenagers: they want and crave discipline and order, but they'll fight against it to their last breath, when the first "fugly" elements are required.
Time to grow up, suck it up, and do the hard work of fandom... let something- anything- ride out for more than 3 years.
This "quick-fix addiction" is wearing me out. It only prolongs the agony. Browns fans (and the media that fuels their motivations) need to start thinking in 5-year segments, instead of 5-week segments. Tis ain't no quick fix, Dawgs.
(And for the record: I was against firing Chris, Romeo, Chud, Arians, AND Foge. Butch fired himself in a locker room at Paul Brown Stadium, and I couldn't have cared less about him...like I said- character counts.)
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Dawg Talker
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You are so right,character does count.
And to instill it we have a Grade-A A-hole,who doesn't think twice about throwing his good friend under the bus at the first hint of trouble.
Yes character does count,and he has none.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
You are so right,character does count.
And to instill it we have a Grade-A A-hole,who doesn't think twice about throwing his good friend under the bus at the first hint of trouble.
Yes character does count,and he has none.
And which is all speculation ... without a shred of evidence to support it.
No one seems to "really" know what went on with Kokinis ..... yet many are taking opinion as fact and running with it.
It really is amazing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
He tore down the roster and is putting an emphasis on building through the draft---which is something Browns fans have wanted for a long time.
He is in control to bring in the guys he feels he needs. Which is a positive step considering the supposed problems that existed between RAC/Savage. I thought his draft this year wasn't as bad as many make is out to be. Right now three of his picks are starting, and all of them are seeing action on the field. He has a solid scouting department in place, as well as a pro personnel department. Both headed by experienced guys.
I want him to get at least another year to see what he can do with 11 more picks and an entire offseason to aquire FA's. He now has had an entire season to evaluate our team, its strengths and weakness, where the holes are, etc.
I want to see another year with him in charge.
You gotta give a coach a chance to get all his guys in place, and his culture in place.
Here in Cleveland, we had nothing. We had a couple primadonnas and very little discipline. Our locker room was a joke.
That is changed now, and it will continue to develop as Mangini brings in more players and they work more and more.
The final goal is a solid organization that will be consistent winners.
Lerner needs to stop caving to fan pressure and just let his coaches and FO people do their jobs.
Very well put.
Lots of folks are overlooking or disregarding or not believing that this was going to be a year of re-tooling. They *LOL* at the publication predictions....some saying we would lose our first 10 games.
Now that it is coming to light, they are unhappy that we are not 6-2 or 5-3 or 4-4....even though LOTS of folks knew it was going to be like this.
They wish to fire the coach.
And start over.
Again.
And they will be the same ones whining when we start out 1-7 once again and will want to start the cycle anew yet again, by hiring a new coach and drafting another QB.
Solidify the OL, get a RB and allow the coach to continue to build the team.....given that we can find a football guy to put in "charge" so they can work together on doing so in tandem and not at odds with one another.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Good post Clem....I never made it that far yet, had to post a reply when I read Tyler's post....a rare gem.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I agree, we won't really be seeing the results of Mangini's "process" until roughly this time next year. While I have no clue if Mangini can implement his design, I do know that swapping coaches every year is not a good idea.
I was watching the Tampa-Green Bay game last weekend, my brother is a fan and I get all their games in my area, so I have watched them a little this year, partly to see if they are worse than us, or not. Young, rookie head coach, no wins to that point. Then they inserted a rookie QB, who threw less than 50% but 3 TD and one interception. Got some help form defense and ST, but they looked like a MUCH better team.
No miracle or coaching genius here, just starting a competent QB. KW2 did make a couple nice catches, but his line, receivers, and RB not exactly Pro-Bowlers. Sound at all familiar?
Our problem is that apparently we just don't have one of those. I do not at all buy into the idea that Mangini "screwed up the QB selection". Another week or so of practice as #1 would have made that much difference?
Keep one as a backup, get a vet for next year and mentoring, build the OL, RB, and WR, and get a kid on 2011. If we can build a halfway-decent team around him, a medium-decent vet could even be a keeper.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
It's the kind of slip-up Patrick Jane would have noticed that would have sent that ... to prison.
a Mentalist reference.
yebat' Putin
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