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http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/2009...oicesnationwideOn Nov. 18 the California Energy Commission is scheduled to vote on a proposal that would require retailers by 2011 to limit sales of TV sets to those that consume about a third less power than they do today. Since the public hearing on Oct. 3, industry groups have turned up the volume in opposition to the new guidelines. If passed, the best value in home theater HDTVs will disappear from California shelves and, some analysts figure, will ultimately cut consumer choices across the country.The Consumer Electronics Association says the current CEC proposal would ban the sale in California of 100 percent of plasma sets larger than 60 inches and 25 percent of all today's large screen HDTVs. For home theater enthusiasts, plasma offers the best value per square inch in screen sizes over 50 inches. A similarly sized, energy efficient LED TV, costs twice as much as a plasma television. Today, a 50-inch Samsung plasma HDTV can be had online for under $1,200, and the largest LED HDTV by Samsung at that same price is only 32 inches. Misinformation? Meanwhile, plasma manufacturers have reduced energy consumption of their larger models over the past two years, and there is room for further reduction. Plasma Display Coalition president Jim Palumbo asked the California Energy Commission to update energy-use information on the state website, but he had no success, citing the CEC for "its flagrant misinformation campaign." Palumbo's group says the state's site has not been updated to reflect the fact that many newer TV models burn the equivalent energy of two 75-watt household light. The CEC says manufacturers will have time to retool their products to meet the guidelines. CEA representatives agree, but warn that retooling will come at a cost, and consumers may have to settle for energy efficient TVs with fewer fancy features like Internet interactivity, if they want to pay the same price. "Imposing arbitrary limits deprives the consumer of buying the television they want, at a price that's affordable to each individual," says Douglas Johnson, senior director of technology policy for the Consumer Electronics Association. As California goes ... CEA fears new restrictions will quickly spill over into other states: as California goes, so goes the nation. Manufacturers will not make TVs that can be sold in one state and not another. Can you imagine The California Energy Diet TV versus The Super Size It Texas TV? Rather than driving Californians out of state and online to buy non-conforming TVs, the net result will be fewer choices for consumers."What is needed is congressional legislation on the energy efficiency of CE and other household product," said Steve Smith, Editor-in-Chief of Twice, the consumer electronics trade publication. "Congressional deliberations will allow the opinions of many [to] be heard and considered, rather than have one state legislature dictate policy on such a vital national issue." PG&E, the major California utility, already imposes premiums on electricity use in excess of a household's established baseline each month: at usage that exceeds the baseline by 31 percent, consumers pay a 43 percent premium, and when they reach double the allotted baseline, the premium nearly doubles to 83 percent. Those same households are rewarded with savings up to 2/3 per kilowatt hour for use during off peak times. Do the laundry during the day and energy use is billed at 30 cents per kilowatt, but hold off until evening and the rate drops to 9 cents. The system is in place to charge individual households for their extra energy consumption and reward those who choose to conserve energy, leaving energy trade-offs - and buying decisions - in the hands of the consumer. The CEC proposal is not subject to a vote by Californians. The CEC may pass the guidelines by vote of the commission only. The proposal is supported by Governor Schwarzenegger and PG&E. ----------------------------
"My signature line goes here."
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Nice weather or not. I just can't see any real positives to living in California, right now, the state is a mess. Sorry California Dawgs.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
As California goes ...
CEA fears new restrictions will quickly spill over into other states: as California goes, so goes the nation. Manufacturers will not make TVs that can be sold in one state and not another. Can you imagine The California Energy Diet TV versus The Super Size It Texas TV? Rather than driving Californians out of state and online to buy non-conforming TVs, the net result will be fewer choices for consumers.
I'm not completely upset they are using this scare tactic as I like big-screen TVs as well and hate the idea of limiting them.
However, this is a false. Every country in the world uses different energy requirements and companies have a multitude of different versions of their televisions to hit those markets.
In fact, most of the time the less energy efficient televisions make a higher profit even at the lower price (due to trying to cut cost corners on those higher end televisions to get people to buy them in the energy restricted areas).
Just another reason to not live in CA.
#gmstrong
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Nice weather or not. I just can't see any real positives to living in California, right now, the state is a mess. Sorry California Dawgs.
Yeah...but what you don't understand..... the weather is REALLY nice.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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Yeah...but what you don't understand..... the weather is REALLY nice.
Yeah, this doesn't really effect Californians ... I'm going to be too busy playing outside in the sun to notice.  
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Nice weather or not. I just can't see any real positives to living in California, right now, the state is a mess. Sorry California Dawgs.
Yeah...but what you don't understand..... the weather is REALLY nice.
~Lyuokdea
Seeing he lives in Florida, I think he understands good weather.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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1st String
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Quote:
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As California goes ...
CEA fears new restrictions will quickly spill over into other states: as California goes, so goes the nation. Manufacturers will not make TVs that can be sold in one state and not another. Can you imagine The California Energy Diet TV versus The Super Size It Texas TV? Rather than driving Californians out of state and online to buy non-conforming TVs, the net result will be fewer choices for consumers.
I'm not completely upset they are using this scare tactic as I like big-screen TVs as well and hate the idea of limiting them.
However, this is a false. Every country in the world uses different energy requirements and companies have a multitude of different versions of their televisions to hit those markets.
In fact, most of the time the less energy efficient televisions make a higher profit even at the lower price (due to trying to cut cost corners on those higher end televisions to get people to buy them in the energy restricted areas).
Just another reason to not live in CA.
I don't know man. I think what is in bold could be pretty accurate. Ford and GM have been making better cars over seas (in Europe) for years. Those cars do not sell in the US. Part of that reason is because of the CEC.
Think about it this way in terms of geography. I live in Erie, PA...just a little over an hour from Cleveland, OH. An estimated 50% of the US population lives within a 500 mile radius of Erie. Cities like Philly, Buffalo, Cleve, Detroit, NYC, etc... are within 500 miles. That is a pretty small area considering how big the country is. The masses of the other 50% are located on the West coast in California. If California made such laws; it would basically wipe out half of a companies sales in the US.
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I dont even own a HDTV...and dont see the dif....How far behind am I? 
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Nice weather or not. I just can't see any real positives to living in California, right now, the state is a mess. Sorry California Dawgs.
I hate the state! Been there and will never go back...It's worse then Nevada, if that is possible? 
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Quote:
Quote:
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As California goes ...
CEA fears new restrictions will quickly spill over into other states: as California goes, so goes the nation. Manufacturers will not make TVs that can be sold in one state and not another. Can you imagine The California Energy Diet TV versus The Super Size It Texas TV? Rather than driving Californians out of state and online to buy non-conforming TVs, the net result will be fewer choices for consumers.
I'm not completely upset they are using this scare tactic as I like big-screen TVs as well and hate the idea of limiting them.
However, this is a false. Every country in the world uses different energy requirements and companies have a multitude of different versions of their televisions to hit those markets.
In fact, most of the time the less energy efficient televisions make a higher profit even at the lower price (due to trying to cut cost corners on those higher end televisions to get people to buy them in the energy restricted areas).
Just another reason to not live in CA.
I don't know man. I think what is in bold could be pretty accurate. Ford and GM have been making better cars over seas (in Europe) for years. Those cars do not sell in the US. Part of that reason is because of the CEC.
Think about it this way in terms of geography. I live in Erie, PA...just a little over an hour from Cleveland, OH. An estimated 50% of the US population lives within a 500 mile radius of Erie. Cities like Philly, Buffalo, Cleve, Detroit, NYC, etc... are within 500 miles. That is a pretty small area considering how big the country is. The masses of the other 50% are located on the West cÕast in California. If California made such laws; it would basically wipe out half of a companies sales in the US.
ok, for one thing, that example actually helps state my case. CA has stricter Environment protection laws on their emissions for automobiles.
Does Ford and Honda sell those CA cars across the country? Nope. CA-only (unless there happen to be a couple other simiilar states I don't know of).
and, in the case of the HDTV's....it's a very simple motherboard swap. The outboard case and hence all of the transportion costs will remain the exact same. Just a sticker on the box and a different processor or motherboard inside the television itself. very easy for Samsung, Magnavox, et cetera to do.
#gmstrong
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Yeah, god forbid someone thinks differently. This country was based off of different people coming together from all walks of life to have the freedom to live without persecution. And you want to "kick them out" because they're different? Amazing ...
There are no sacred cows.
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Seeing he lives in Florida, I think he understands good weather.
Nah, it gets hot an humid there in the summer...very uncomfortable
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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Let's just give Southern California to the Chinese to settle our debt. They can deal with the wackos and lunatic fringe living on the left coast.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am waiting for the day when companies refuse to make products compliant for sale in California.."ok, we just won't sell plasma tvs in California".
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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1st String
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Quote:
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As California goes ...
CEA fears new restrictions will quickly spill over into other states: as California goes, so goes the nation. Manufacturers will not make TVs that can be sold in one state and not another. Can you imagine The California Energy Diet TV versus The Super Size It Texas TV? Rather than driving Californians out of state and online to buy non-conforming TVs, the net result will be fewer choices for consumers.
I'm not completely upset they are using this scare tactic as I like big-screen TVs as well and hate the idea of limiting them.
However, this is a false. Every country in the world uses different energy requirements and companies have a multitude of different versions of their televisions to hit those markets.
In fact, most of the time the less energy efficient televisions make a higher profit even at the lower price (due to trying to cut cost corners on those higher end televisions to get people to buy them in the energy restricted areas).
Just another reason to not live in CA.
I don't know man. I think what is in bold could be pretty accurate. Ford and GM have been making better cars over seas (in Europe) for years. Those cars do not sell in the US. Part of that reason is because of the CEC.
Think about it this way in terms of geography. I live in Erie, PA...just a little over an hour from Cleveland, OH. An estimated 50% of the US population lives within a 500 mile radius of Erie. Cities like Philly, Buffalo, Cleve, Detroit, NYC, etc... are within 500 miles. That is a pretty small area considering how big the country is. The masses of the other 50% are located on the West coast in California. If California made such laws; it would basically wipe out half of a companies sales in the US.
ok, for one thing, that example actually helps state my case. CA has stricter Environment protection laws on their emissions for automobiles.
Does Ford and Honda sell those CA cars across the country? Nope. CA-only (unless there happen to be a couple other simiilar states I don't know of).
and, in the case of the HDTV's....it's a very simple motherboard swap. The outboard case and hence all of the transportion costs will remain the exact same. Just a sticker on the box and a different processor or motherboard inside the television itself. very easy for Samsung, Magnavox, et cetera to do.
That is true, but it also means that there cars that do not sell in the entire US because of California laws. Trust me, my wife has lived in Europe, has family still living in parts of Europe and they have Ford vehicles that get great gas mileage and have for years. While we were getting 30+ miles per gallon cars, they were getting 50 to 60 during the same time.
Jetta diesel hybrid car is another example. CA regulates diesel engines strictly, so there less diesel hybrids being sold in the US. If you're a diesel hybrid maker, do you put a factory set up to build these cars in a country with restrictions or put them in a country with less restrictions? I've shopped around a little for diesel hybrids. In the US they are harder to come by and it is not because they are selling by the lot load.
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I am waiting for the day when companies refuse to make products compliant for sale in California.."ok, we just won't sell plasma tvs in California".
That company would go bankrupt quickly
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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While we were getting 30+ miles per gallon cars, they were getting 50 to 60 during the same time.
That's because they measure everything in Km. .
30 mi. = 48.2803 km
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I am waiting for the day when companies refuse to make products compliant for sale in California.."ok, we just won't sell plasma tvs in California".
That company would go bankrupt quickly
~Lyuokdea
I doubt it. I'd buy something from a company that did that, even if I didn't need the product.
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I doubt it. I'd buy something from a company that did that, even if I didn't need the product.
Well go buy some electric heaters then.
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I doubt it. I'd buy something from a company that did that, even if I didn't need the product.
Well go buy some electric heaters then.
We have 2. I for the bathroom - it's run about 15 minutes a day. I for when my wife is watching tv.......I've turned our furnace on 2 times this year, when we had people coming over on a friday. I shut it off as soon as they leave.
This could be a record year for me not running the furnace. Normally, I wear shorts for work until Nov. 1st, regardless of the weather. In past years, it was tough. This is the 12th of november and I'm still in shorts for work.
The house gets down to 60 or so at night. My wife calls me a tight wad. I tell her to dress like it's winter, throw some long pants on and a sweatshirt if you can't stand it, OR, pay the propane bill.
But if a company came out and said "we're making tv's that can't be sold in California, I'd buy one.
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lol My furnace is on 68 and my wife still wears long pants, and a t-shirt under her sweatshirt, while covering up with at least one blanket 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I am waiting for the day when companies refuse to make products compliant for sale in California.."ok, we just won't sell plasma tvs in California".
That company would go bankrupt quickly
~Lyuokdea
I doubt it....unless the majority of customers were from Cal.
Don't give Cal too much credit....it's just one of 50 states.
Just because they have 30 million pussies living there doesn't mean the 5-6 mil living in Tennessee have to listen to them....truth be known, if in a fight, my money goes with the Tennessean....Tennessee, the Patron Saint of things that shoot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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lol My furnace is on 68 and my wife still wears long pants, and a t-shirt under her sweatshirt, while covering up with at least one blanket
Hell, my wife has an electric blanket......it's supposed to cover the whole bed...........Years ago I explained to her that if the electric blanket covered me, I'd burn our trash with it in it. So, she has an electric blanket doubled over on herself, wears long pants to be, a t shirt and a long sleeve t shirt, plus socks, to bed.
Me? a pair of shorts.....covered by a sheet and the "comforter" that matches the damn paint scheme in our bedroom.
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I agree with your thought process, but don't think this Ohioan wouldn't hold his own if the guns start coming out. 
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Maybe it's time for an East vs West civil war over product options?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Arch you may want to consider bumping the heat up to 80 a few nights a week so your wife can sleep naked 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Just because they have 30 million pussies living there doesn't mean the 5-6 mil living in Tennessee have to listen to them....truth be known, if in a fight, my money goes with the Tennessean....Tennessee, the Patron Saint of things that shoot.
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I agree with your thought process, but don't think this Ohioan wouldn't hold his own if the guns start coming out.
No....Ohio is slick as is most of the midwest....I will take a boy from Bryan, Ohio or Iowa City, Iowa over some slicker from Ventura, California in my fox hole any day of the week.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't think there's any way this will stand up if taken to US Supreme Court (Commerce Clause).
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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If passed, the best value in home theater HDTVs will disappear from California shelves and, some analysts figure, will ultimately cut consumer choices across the country.
As usual, anything I read from Yahoo.com leaves much to be desired in way of information.
My intuition leads me to believe that the main purpose of the regulation is to tilt the competition in favor of the home team.
LA Times
Representatives of some TV makers, including top-seller Vizio Inc. of Irvine, said they would have little trouble complying with tighter state standards without substantially increasing prices.
"We're comfortable with our ability to meet the proposed levels and implementation dates," said Kenneth R. Lowe, Vizio's co-founder and vice president.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Leave my HDTV alone! (Yet another
reason to kick CA out of the
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