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This guy really isn't saying anything that a lot of folks on here haven't said the past two months. Butt was interesting to read what Jaworski thinks about our present situation. Quote:
Cleveland Browns' offense so bad, QB doesn't really matter, ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski says
By Mary Kay Cabot
November 14, 2009, 5:00AM
Bad news for Brady Quinn: The Browns offense is so bad that not even Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees could flourish in it, according to ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski.
Despite that, Jaworski, a member of the "Monday Night Football" broadcast team that will televise Monday's game against the Ravens, thinks Quinn still has what it takes to eventually take the Browns to the playoffs or a Super Bowl.
"I think he has a big upside," said Jaworski, a former Pro Bowl quarterback and 17-year NFL vet. "I haven't wavered on him since he came out of Notre Dame. I've seen flashes of a rock-solid quarterback. He needs experience and coaching, but he has the skill set to be a successful NFL quarterback."
Problem is, he'll have a hard time proving that with so little to work with, Jaworski said.
"It's not going to make a whole lot of difference who you put back there right now," said Jaworski, who's studied coaching tapes of six of the Browns' eight games in preparation for Monday night's Browns-Ravens rematch. "The components aren't in place for a quarterback to flourish. It's a slow, plodding offense. There's no separation from the receivers. You're throwing into tight windows all day. It's not an explosive group by any means."
And it's not going to become one overnight, he said.
"You need someone in the backfield that's more explosive," he said. "Jamal [Lewis] can give you that downhill, power running game, but there's really no threat to the outside. Defenses can compress the field and keep everything inside. You've got to find a game-breaker at wide receiver, and a No. 1 is hard to come by. You need more consistency on the right side of the offensive line and more speed at tight end. I don't think it's going to get done in one year."
Jaworski said the Browns' offensive scheme -- which features the short-passing game -- is fine, "but your tight ends can't run to stretch the field, and you're not going to open up voids in the middle of the field. You're very limited as a play caller. The best you can do is shorten games: run the ball, keep the game close, get in that fourth quarter with a chance to win. It's not the way I like to play, but when you look at this team right now, that's how you have to play."
He said the only offensive player who's turned in solid performances week in and week out has been left tackle Joe Thomas.
"Even guys like Eric Steinbach, I looked at the game against Denver, and he pulls out on a play and Mario Haggan just stones him," Jaworski said. "It's like, 'Wait, he should be a dominant player.' "
He called the five offensive TDs in the past 14 games "embarrassing, especially when Jim Brown had five TDs in one game and Tom Brady threw five TD passes in one quarter this season. I wish I could sugarcoat it for Browns fans, but that's the reality."
He said the Browns shouldn't have pulled Quinn after 21/2 games.
"Ten quarters is not enough to make a true evaluation," said Jaworski. "I looked at the first half of the [Ravens] game to find out why he was pulled. Obviously the interception was a bad decision, but I didn't see anything the next series that said, 'Get this guy out of the game.' "
Browns offensive coordinator Brian Daboll said a lot of thought went into the decision and he "hasn't had time to reflect on it" while trying to improve the offense. Jaworski said it's imperative to choose a quarterback and stick with him, especially if it's a young guy with promise.
"In this league, the quarterback is going to be get embarrassed," said Jaworski. "But you have to believe in him and not bail out when times get tough."
He said he's seen Quinn hold onto the ball too long at times but make good reads other times. "The consistency wasn't there, but it takes time," he said.
Jaworski said Derek Anderson, who went 1-4, is "not the right fit for this offense. He has some talent, but needs to be with a vertical passing game. I'm sure it's been very difficult for him just like it's been for Brady. I've counted 24 dropped passes, most in the NFL. They're getting no help."
He said he doesn't feel for Quinn, because this is a great opportunity for him.
"When a quarterback gets benched, embarrassed and to a certain degree humiliated, it's the worst thing that can happen to you so you come back with an 'I don't give a damn attitude,' " said Jaworski. "I kind of think that's how Brady will play -- but it will still be very difficult because of the personnel around him."
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Article is pretty much true.. and Jaws sums it up quite well.. Play Quinn... Start Quinn... Keep Quinn... Build your team... Don't draft QB... Draft Defense, Draft O-line, and Draft RB!!! Simple right?!  (not for Mangini)
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anyone else think that Steinbach is getting too much money?
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Maybe he should donate to the Cribbs fund.
#GMSTRONG
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2nd String
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Quote:
Play Quinn... Start Quinn... Keep Quinn...
Build your team... Don't draft QB... Draft Defense, Draft O-line, and Draft RB!!!
Amen!
If Mangini doesn't do 4 out of the 6 Things this up coming Off-Season (Assuming he's still here) I'll officially be ticked.
1.) Draft a RG or RT (One that can START)
2.) Sign a Veteran WR that is capable of the #1 Spot for a few years to groom our Younger WR's.
3.) Figure out out RB's. Jamal Lewis is done, and we have Harrison, Davis and Jennings. If you don't feel confident with any of them, Draft a RB (Preferably Fast)
4.) Draft or Sign a Game Changer on Defense, no one that is over the hill and is on the decline.
5.) Draft or Sign a Hybrid TE
6.) Draft Defense
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Legend
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When you read Jaworski (whom I have great respect for) then read this article from Jason La Canfora of NFL Network on next years free agent class: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5...mp;confirm=trueOnce again it looks like a long hard road. The best thing that could happen is that Brady Quinn establish himself as a NFL starter. It then becomes imperative that we land the right guy to be head of all football decisions and that guy bring in a great talent evaluator (GM) and a head coach who is focused on one one thing only - coaching. If all goes great and we get the right people in place and Quinn proves to be a starter at best we are three years away from competing. Hard to swallow given the position that this team has been in. But that is what happens when you are mismanaged and can not evaluate talent. You miss in the draft and it bites you for years.
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Thanks for that read. When it comes to the linemen on that list, maybe the best we could hope for is some solid guys if we go the FA route... not stars, just solid football players.
gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
anyone else think that Steinbach is getting too much money?
Stein isn't a power guard, never has been. When the browns where running a zone blocking scheme he was kicking butt.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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We should give Jaws an award, he pretty much nailed it. TE, WR, RB, RT, RG, other than that we are fine,  So much for Mangini building the team, he broke it.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Bone, thanks for that article.. wow, what a dearth of starting talent.. there is some of course, but mostly it's a depth only FA class.. if this doesn't say we need a REAL Football guy to pick in the draft, I don't know what does.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those are the same weaknesses we had last year.
I disagree with the premise that Quinn is a good QB on a bad team. I'd say he's a bad QB on a worse team.
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Quote:
"Even guys like Eric Steinbach, I looked at the game against Denver, and he pulls out on a play and Mario Haggan just stones him," Jaworski said. "It's like, 'Wait, he should be a dominant player.' "
I'm glad to finally see someone reflect what I've said about Stein.
He's not a pro-bowl player. He's been living on that reputation for two years now and isn't that kind of player. Not even close. He's a finesse guy who's rather soft, especially in this division.
Now that isn't to say he's a bum. He's not. But he's not special. In terms of value for his contract, he's overpaid. He is part of the answer if there are other parts around him, but when push comes to shove, Stein isn't the great player that his reputation says he is.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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However, he is a legitimate NFL starter on a team that has very few players that can be considered that.
Thomas Stein, Vickers on offense.
Rogers, Wright Jackson and Wimbley on D.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Which is why I said "He's part of the answer."
Changing subjects, Charger, did you just type that Wimbley is a legit NFL starter?
You bump your head this morning? 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My view of him is that he is ok, nothing great, but you can build a team around him. In retrospect he has not lived up to the first rounder status, but is a player.
I saw the same thing with Jammer in SD. He was blasted in the press for years, but he is a decent enough corner.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I view you as a sound poster, but can't agree on Wimbley. To me, he's part of the problem and has reached his peak.
But hey, let's not quibble over players that will deviate from a thread which has all the makings of yet another QB deadbate.  *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Perhaps so, but with so many other needs, there are easier cherries to pick.
Which is probably why Jaws is right, DA does not have JJ, KW and BE any longer and has no chance of being sucessful. Same with Quinn.
The thing that I am most upset with is Royal and Necktie Jr. These were obvious, a major downgrade, and a lateral move when improvement was necessary.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Toad and Charger,, I'm pretty sure that if Wimbley was drafted anywhere from the 2nd round down, he'd be thought of in a better light. Outside of year one, he hasn't lived up to his 1st round status.. I say that, but then I think back on a 5th rounder that started here in the middle for a bunch of years and couldn't catch a break... With that thought... I am wrong, he'd still be beat on
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Those are the same weaknesses we had last year.
I disagree with the premise that Quinn is a good QB on a bad team. I'd say he's a bad QB on a worse team.
You may end up being right but I don't think we have seen enough of him to make a solid decision. I didn't think he was nearly as bad as some thought he was in his first couple of starts. Of course I wasn't as high on him as some were when he came out of college.
I think he is somewhere in the middle. I don't think he will ever be great but I think he has the tools to be very good.
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure that if Wimbley was drafted anywhere from the 2nd round down, he'd be thought of in a better light.
To a point, yes, that'd be true. He'd be considered an overachiever who became a starter.
However, I don't view players in that light.
There are two different discussions regarding any given player:
1) How that player has performed compared to when he was drafted
2) How that player performs on the field.
In terms of evaluating Wimbley as a starting OLB in the 3-4, he cannot be considered a success. He's mediocre against the run, mediocre in recognition, and as a pure pass rusher, he's poor.
IMHO, he's simply in the bottom 3rd of 3-4 OLB's in the NFL.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Great article! 
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Quote:
We should give Jaws an award, he pretty much nailed it.
TE, WR, RB, RT, RG, other than that we are fine,
So much for Mangini building the team, he broke it.
x2
Nothing that hasn't been said before but it should be emphasized that Mangini in one offseason broke a mediocre team.
Just for two seconds close your eyes and think of Cowher coming in here last offseason. I think the team would have gotten excited, Winslow and Edwards would change their tune, and we may have had success in the FA marketplace and in the draft. We could have made a mediocre team into a good team with the ability to be a very good team in the coming years.
This team has been so decimated in one offseason it's going to take 2 years of great (not good, great) FO moves to be competitive again.
I hate paying for this crap.
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I hate paying for this crap.
Then don't. Many of us have stopped.
Last edited by CDawg; 11/14/09 08:40 PM.
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Toad, I'm not gonna say Steiny's an all-world blocker, but I do think he's pretty good. He'd benefit if we ran more of a ZBS instead of man, but that's not the point. Point is that there aren't a whole lot of guards better than him. From what I've watched most of the guards out there anymore aren't that great. I've started to think interior line is more about smarts and cohesion than anything. That's not to say a great talented player won't make a difference, but the interior line needs to jell, and I don't think we really have that right now.
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Quote:
Those are the same weaknesses we had last year.
I disagree with the premise that Quinn is a good QB on a bad team. I'd say he's a bad QB on a worse team.
And what's your thoughts on Anderson at this time since you LOVE this worthless piece of crap!
Last edited by Corpusdawg; 11/15/09 01:17 AM.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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And where the hell is Dong after his boy has sucked the life out of the QB position for the second year in a row? :catfight Oh I forgot Anderson will win us a Super Bowl if we just stay with him and Mangini for the next decade! 
Last edited by Corpusdawg; 11/15/09 01:19 AM.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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#gmstrong
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I had a mock where I said we would probably draft atleast two guards, b/c Gini does not like Steinbach's style of play.
I want some grinders.. I think Steinbach is one of the reasons our RB's don't have much success running through the middle.
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Legend
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Quote:
Article is pretty much true.. and Jaws sums it up quite well..
Play Quinn... Start Quinn... Keep Quinn...
Build your team... Don't draft QB... Draft Defense, Draft O-line, and Draft RB!!!
Simple right?! (not for Mangini)
If Lerner doesnt get someone hired to oversee what Mangini is doing (a football czar)...then Lerner himself needs to make it known to Mangini that there will be no more trades or cuts until someone can be hired to oversee Mangini.
Hopefully Kosar can help Lerner in that dept...until someone is hired.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
I hate paying for this crap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then don't. Many of us have stopped.
Beat me to it,, that would be my advice as well
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I hate paying for this crap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then don't. Many of us have stopped.
Beat me to it,, that would be my advice as well
It's the damn PSL money I dropped on tickets. And they're front row, on the aisle and right next to seats that are almost double the price in the club section.
If I gave them up there's no getting that situation back....that is unless I had Lerner money....and I don't. Unfortunately.
How about this.
I'll concentrate on making more money. The team concentrates on hiring a competant guy and adding some spice to this dish in the offseason.
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Legend
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Those are the same weaknesses we had last year.
I disagree with the premise that Quinn is a good QB on a bad team. I'd say he's a bad QB on a worse team.
And what's your thoughts on Anderson at this time since you LOVE this worthless piece of crap!
Funny how sensitive people think that, if you say that Brady is not very good, it automatically means that Anderson is a better option. It's not just Corpusdawg- there's a lot of other folks on this board and others who see things so black and white that they assume if one is disparaging one QB, they're somehow promoting the other.
My view is that I totally agree with the poster who said Quinn is a "bad QB on a worse team", but guess what? Anderson is also a bad QB on a worse team. They both suck until one of them proves otherwise- which neither has done to this point. I highly doubt the OP is saying "Quinn is a bad QB on a worse team, but Anderson is just peachy." Still, around these parts, one apparently can't give an opinion that one QB sucks, without everyone jumping down their throat that they're giving a wholehearted endorsement of the other.
Everyone needs to stop being defensive over these two guys. The Cleveland Browns do not have a QB this year, plain and simple. Neither one of them is gonna come in and light the place up with the tools provided here. Puh-lease. If they do, it's for one game... and then it's back to being a joke.
Next year.
Last edited by revenge rabbit; 11/15/09 01:04 PM.
The Cleveland Browns: The only team who puts a picture of a hat on their hats.
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rabbit...What everyone needs to understand, you can't draw any conclusion concerning the Browns QB situation because of the quality of the support we surrounded our QBs with.
We don't know any more about the quality of our QBs than we did at the end of last season, IMO.
What I get from Jaworski's comments...don't expect miracles from the Browns offense, especially at the QB position, because of the poor quality of the support staff surrounding them.
( I've seen flashes of a rock-solid quarterback. He needs experience and coaching, but he has the skill set to be a successful NFL quarterback."
Problem is, he'll have a hard time proving that with so little to work with, Jaworski said. )
I'm glad that Jaws pointed out that it doesn't matter who we put in at QB, because the offensive scheme is ("slow, plodding")...the coaching is poor...the WRs are poor...the running game is poor...and the offensive line needs upgraded.
Last season the support staff surrounding our QBs was poor and it has gotten worse since arrival of Mangini, Daboll and the rest of the offensive coaching staff.
Other than that....
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Quote:
My view is that I totally agree with the poster who said Quinn is a "bad QB on a worse team", but guess what? Anderson is also a bad QB on a worse team. They both suck until one of them proves otherwise- which neither has done to this point. I highly doubt the OP is saying "Quinn is a bad QB on a worse team, but Anderson is just peachy." Still, around these parts, one apparently can't give an opinion that one QB sucks, without everyone jumping down their throat that they're giving a wholehearted endorsement of the other.
Totally agree
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I wonder what Quinn could do with some real coaching.
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Josh McDaniels is the only guy out there who could make him work.
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Quote:
Josh McDaniels is the only guy out there who could make him work.
I think he is a guy who could make Quinn work.
The only guy. No.
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People will continue to hold onto hope.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jaworski talks Browns offense
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