We currently would be picking #1 overall, in the provervial 'if the draft were held today'.
The top two players in my mind are Suh and Berry (assuming he declares). No other player is up there with them. So to answer your question, I would take Berry, but would not be upset with Suh if that is who we ended up taking.
I like Berry because he would be a huge upgrade to our safeties, he is a ballhawk, athletic and physical at the position, not just a pass interceptor, but a run stopper/enforcer. Suh has immense talent, and I am always for building the lines first (OL/DL); however our DL while not great isn't as weak as safety and we have more depth at DL than S.
I believe in best player available, over need. More of best player available and at a need. (I wouldn't take three QB's in a row just because they are BPA. I look at need and go there as long as the BPA is in a need spot and the dropoff isn't huge to the next player available). I would not pass up the BPA just because we have good players at a position (you can always improve everywhere), but if player A and player B are ranked very close (almost no diff), and player A is DL and player B is S, and I have safety as a greater need I would go there, because it would help the team sooner and give me quicker bang for the buck.
Long-winded way of supporting my Berry pick.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital. Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
Mississippi State is the team I think you mean; Anthony Dixon (6' 1", 235lbs, runs a 4.55 forty time (reported)). I like him except he has had some off-field issues, but he would be a nice compliment to Davis and Harrison. Possibly a 2nd rounder, but more likely 3rd (imo). Would be a good pick up then.
LaBlount would be a steal in round 6 or 7, but I bet a team takes a flier on him sooner than that, if all goes well in workouts leading up to the draft and he shows true contrition on his past actions.
Harrison is a FA this year, restricted if no CBA gets done, so his return depends on who comes in as Czar and if/when we get a new coach.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital. Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
(1) Give me Berry or Suh (torn on which one but definately no other player if we stay in top 3) (2) RB, OT, LB (3a) RB, OT, LB, TE, G (3b) RB, OT, LB, TE, G (4+) BPA
whatever position we don't take in round 2, we try to get in round 3a and/or 3b, etc...
too many holes to fill but we need to go offense (and maybe LB) in rounds 2-3 especially since we'll be going 'D' in round 1
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Deep - at this point in time I am a Berry guy. I have been for over a year. Of course that presumes that he comes out this year as he is only a junior. He is a real playmaker. And wouldn't it be nice to have a DB that can tackle?
I haven't seen that much of Suh. I tried to stay up and watch the Nebraska game the other night but fell asleep. What I saw wasn't dominating by any means.
Which brings me to my question for you Deep. Why would you pick Suh over Berry?
The difference between Jesus and religion Religion mocks you for having dirty feet Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
Suh has no weaknesses and is completely dominant. He gets doubled on just about every play. Berry does have weaknesses. He isn't that great of a tackler or very physical. Great in coverage and such, but he isn't as complete of a player as Suh.
Quote: . Berry does have weaknesses. He isn't that great of a tackler or very physical. .
Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Berry is known for being one of the biggest hitters in NCAA. He stonewalled Tim Tebow.
Eric Berry is one of the best tacklers in NCAA. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Show me 1 scouting report that you didn't write where it says Berry isn't physical? I'm calling you out on this. I can show you 10 that say he is physical and one hell of a tackler.
I agree that Berry is great in coverage. He is a ballhawk who knows what to do when he makes an interception. I disagree though in that I think he is a very good tackler and has more physicality that you give him credit for.
I will admit that I am a little intrigued by the thought of lining Suh up at DE next to Rogers at NT.
The difference between Jesus and religion Religion mocks you for having dirty feet Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
I can show you plenty of highlights where he gets ran over. No one in their right mind would call him a hard hitter. He stood up Tebow. One of the times he actually used good form.
Quote: I can show you plenty of highlights where he gets ran over. No one in their right mind would call him a hard hitter. He stood up Tebow. One of the times he actually used good form.
Someone with just as much credibility as you did.
Eric Berry Scouting Report By Matt McGuire
# Strengths: Extremely productive # Highly athletic # Great initial quickness; short-range explosion # Nice recovery speed # Terrific instincts; anticipates the play # Smooth athlete # Fluid hips # Shows textbook footwork # Absolute playmaker # Can really lay the wood # Physical and violent player # Interception machine # Does a great job of reading the quarterback's eyes # Gets out of backpedal cleanly and breaks on ball # Soft hands # Good route recognition # Doesn't miss tackles # Elite range in pass coverage # Turns INTs into TDs # Aggressive against the run # Closes in on ball-carrier quickly # Scheme and position versatility (FS or SS) # Plays through pain # Elite skill set # Very intelligent # Nice work ethic
A: According to Matt McGuire, Eric Berry must be the best player ever. B: Never said Scott Wright was the best. Said he was the most famous and best credentialed behind Mel Kiper. C: He isn't afraid to mix it up. Doesn't make him a good tackler. I wish I could find the old youtube video of a collection of plays where he gets knocked down. Think it got taken off youtube.
I think Berry is a very good player, and my 2nd favorite in the draft. Much better prospect than anyone in last year's draft, and the best safety (heck, I'll even say defensive back) prospect since Sean Taylor. But just like Ed Reed, he isn't a great tackler, and not very strong against the run. I'd still love to have him.
Just because I point out some weaknesses, doesn't mean I don't really like him as a prospect. Scouting is recognizing the positives and weaknesses. And dude, there's no need attack me like that. Debate with me, don't argue.
Quote: A: According to Matt McGuire, Eric Berry must be the best player ever. B: Never said Scott Wright was the best. Said he was the most famous and best credentialed behind Mel Kiper.
Ahem..You called him
Quote:
Scott Wright, THE NFL Draft expert,
You didn't say famous and best credentialed...you said THE NFL DRAFT EXPERT. You said it not me.
Quote:
C: He isn't afraid to mix it up. Doesn't make him a good tackler. I wish I could find the old youtube video of a collection of plays where he gets knocked down. Think it got taken off youtube.
Can you read? You must not be able to cause you completely missed the word Physical. I'll tell you he doesn't play paddy cake physically. In fact being a safety and playing physically usually means he tackles hard. How else do you interpret that statement? He catches the ball physically?
Quote:
But just like Ed Reed, he isn't a great tackler, and not very strong against the run.
Ed Reed isn't a good tackler? Are you crazy? He lays the wood all the time. Dude the more you talk about Ed Reed and Berry not being tackler the more you lose credibility. Many people consider Ed Reed to be the best safety in the league yet he can't tackle? C'mon dude....
Quote:
Just because I point out some weaknesses, doesn't mean I don't really like him as a prospect. Scouting is recognizing the positives and weaknesses. And dude, there's no need attack me like that. Debate with me, don't argue.
Oh I completely agree but there is no reason to go inventing things. Dude read your own posts you attack more people than I every think to. I only "attack" people when they spew forth lies and try to pass it on as truths.
I know a hell of a lot more people who would say he struggles tackling than otherwise. It will be a weakness in all of his scouting reports.
Watch Ed Reed play. He isn't physical. Everyone knows this. Don't judge off of reputation.
What truths am I trying to pass off? I'm giving MY OPINION. Not facts, OPINIONS. When you want to actually debate me instead of attack me, feel free, but until you do, I'm done. There are plenty of reasonable people that I'd prefer to talk to.
Then what the heck does THE NFL DRAFT EXPERT mean? You explain it, you said it. Don't ask me to explain something you said. I'm sorry if I inferred being THE NFL DRAFT EXPERT involved scouting....
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I know a hell of a lot more people who would say he struggles tackling than otherwise. It will be a weakness in all of his scouting reports.
Where are those? Could you show them to me? Or are you Nostradamus?
Quote:
Watch Ed Reed play. He isn't physical. Everyone knows this. Don't judge off of reputation.
I am asking you to explain to me how he has been to 4+ Pro Bowls, A Defensive Player of the Year and considered to be the best Safety in the NFL (Including Bob Sanders and Troy P. who are great tacklers) yet he isn't physical and doesn't tackle well? Explain that.
Quote:
What truths am I trying to pass off? I'm giving MY OPINION. Not facts, OPINIONS.
Good for you, last time I checked your allowed to have one but don't try to act like the leading authority on scouting, when it is clear even your NFL Draft expert disagrees with you.
I respect your opinion DT, however I disagree with it. I think Berry is a good tackler, don't often say great about too many players and their tackling skills because too many go for the highlight hit rather than the wrap-up solid tackle.
However Monte Kiffin would probably disagree with your opinion as well, for a few weeks there he had Berry playing mostly up in the box to support the run than centerfield. You don't typically do that with a below-average tackler, or one where tackling is considered a weakness.
As I said, your opinion is yours, mine is mine. I think Berry is a good tackler and would be the smart pick for the Browns should he come out and be there when we pick (hopefully not #1 though - for money and for the wins I still want us to get).
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital. Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
All it means is that he's the most respected. I actually think he's an arrogant ... who doesn't know as much as he thinks. But I probably shouldn't say that.
Scouting reports aren't out already. Only the weirdos have them out this early.
Ed Reed is awesome because he's sweet in coverage and makes plays with the ball. He has great instincts, great speed, and great reaction time. That's why he's the best. Berry can be like him.
I am FAR from a leading expert. Hence why I am constantly bugging guys like Toad and Diam via PM. So I can get insight and more knowledge. That's why I am constantly emailing people I have come across in the business.
I honestly didn't know that pointing out a well known weakness was such an issue.
Quote: Anyone other pick drafted besides Eric Berry... would be uncivilized...
turrible.. just turrible..
There are three players at this point I would be happy with. Eric Berry, N. Suh, and Jack Locker. I could see valid arguments for all three of those players. The good news is we will have the ability to draft 1 of those guys as we will be picking in the top 3 if not 1 overall.
He usually does a good job, but sometimes he comes in too high and gets overpowered. He wraps up and doesn't go for the big hit, but with his size he needs to stay low. He usually does it well, but he'll usually miss on one or two a game. But for what he does in coverage, I'm willing to accept any weaknesses he may or may not have against the run.
Suh on the other hand is just straight up dominant. He is strong and explosive with awesome technique. Scouts are going to have the same problem they had with Calvin Johnson. Virtually no weaknesses.
I know a hell of a lot more people who would say he struggles tackling than otherwise. It will be a weakness in all of his scouting reports.
Watch Ed Reed play. He isn't physical. Everyone knows this. Don't judge off of reputation.
Based on watching him play one game, I disagree that Berry isnt physical and cant tackle. He was a beast at tackling. Kiffen has even put Berry at LB but he isnt physical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want Berry with the first pick. They can probably trade down a couple picks and still get him.
Based on watching him play one game, I disagree that Berry isnt physical and cant tackle. He was a beast at tackling. Kiffen has even put Berry at LB but he isnt physical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want Berry with the first pick. They can probably trade down a couple picks and still get him.
Yeah it's an obvious flaw that everyone sees...don't you?
Based on watching him play one game, I disagree that Berry isnt physical and cant tackle. He was a beast at tackling. Kiffen has even put Berry at LB but he isnt physical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want Berry with the first pick. They can probably trade down a couple picks and still get him.
Yeah it's an obvious flaw that everyone sees...don't you?
I guess I need to watch him play more but I never though he would be questioned on his tackling and being physical.
Honestly I think that a Safety would be worth a #1 overall. Look how important Troy P is to the Steeler's D. Without Troy P that is a completely different team. IMO Eric Berry has that ability to be a game changing safety. Unlike Deep I think he has the ability to be an enforcer. He has the ability to lineup at FS or SS and in any system.
To me Safety is the QB of the defense and would be worth the first pick in the draft. Since I see D-line has our one defensive strength I prefer Berry over Suh.
Quote: To me Safety is the QB of the defense and would be worth the first pick in the draft. Since I see D-line has our one defensive strength I prefer Berry over Suh.
Ha, I couldn't tell you preferred Berry after your Berry is the Greatest Football Player Alive comments.
I cant believe I am going to say this given the Browns 1st rd dline man history, but I prefer Suh, I'm not sure how much Rogers has left in the tank, he's getting a little long in the tooth for me...
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
Ha, I couldn't tell you preferred Berry after your Berry is the Greatest Football Player Alive comments.
I cant believe I am going to say this given the Browns 1st rd dline man history, but I prefer Suh, I'm not sure how much Rogers has left in the tank, he's getting a little long in the tooth for me...
Well I just contend he is physical and can tackle everything else said about him wasn't from me. One thing though Rogers and Suh are unrelated. Suh is a dominant DT in college however he does not have the girth or physical dimensions to replace Rodgers. Suh would be more Richard Seymour than Vince Wilfork. Now Terrance Cody could possibly be an effective NT but make no mistake Suh would be a DE for us. Suh could not replace Rogers very few men in the NFL can.
I would rather give a phat contract to Richard Seymour as a FA and draft Eric Berry.
I've been taught not to form an opinion on someone until I've watched him in at least for games. I've now watched five of Berry's. Like I said, he's usually good, but sometimes he comes in high.
I'll also add this, Suh may be the first DT in a while to go #1. Berry has virtually zero chance of going that high.
Interesting debate...I know from what I see in Berry he's more of a ballhawk..but after thinking this through and through one thing is obvious..I'd rather have Suh first..BPA also.. In case you guys haven't noticed..the Browns still can't stop the run...and I'm all to aware about the ridiculous secondary..personally I want a better CB to step in and getting some of the trash thats starting relegated to the bench..
Berry isn't the only safety in this draft..and I know what I want out of any SS that comes in..he needs to be good in coverage but a hammer back there.
To me Safety is the QB of the defense and would be worth the first pick in the draft. Since I see D-line has our one defensive strength I prefer Berry over Suh.
I agree with you.. along with the MLB spot too.. and we could possibly get two great guys at both of those spots:
1 in Eric Berry.. and 2 in Brandon Spikes or Rolando McClain..
While I like the defensive talent in this draft, i'm not sure we can go defense with our first two picks....I'd consider LB in round 2 if Graham, McClain, or Hughes were there
Not too high on anyone else
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
Alright great debate on Suh vs Berry. Looks like we all have a few more college games to watch but now we have something to focus on.
Next question: Let's say we win another game or 2 and we have the 3rd pick or possibly the 4th. Who would you guys look at assuming Suh and Berry go before us?
Too high for McClain, I think. I haven't seen seen enough of the DT from Oklahoma. I am still not sold on any of the Qb's being taken that high. I would love a great rush OLB but don't see any. I really like Hughes from TCU but think top 5 is probably too high.
My choice: Haden the CB from Florida. May be a little high for him but he is great at man to man coverage, he is physical for a corner and he is a very good tackler. He would improve our pass defense and improve the run support from our defensive backfield. I really believe that with the right coaching he could be our Revis. I think Haden can be that good. Having said that I guess in my mind he wouldn't be much of a reach.
The difference between Jesus and religion Religion mocks you for having dirty feet Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
Next question: Let's say we win another game or 2 and we have the 3rd pick or possibly the 4th. Who would you guys look at assuming Suh and Berry go before us?
First, I would start crying that have such a horrible year, we couldn't get one of these two guys....Then I'd look at McCoy or Okung...maybe one of the QB's even though I don't like them. I don't like Mays, Bradford, or Dunlap
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
McCoy is the DT from Oklahoma - I couldn't remember his name. Need to see him more.
I wouldn't reach for a Qb at this point.
I agree with you on Dunlap. Great physical specimen but disappears to much to be a top 5 pick. He will have a reat combine and get over-drafted based on him being a workout warrior rather than drafted where he should based on his on field production.
Okung is a thought but I see him as a pure LT. I don't see him being able to be the mauler RT. So we draft him and have a log jam at LT.
Mays is a possibility but I have always felt he was a little over-rated.
Personally I think I would still favor Haden.
I would be hoping one of the teams above us like the Rams goes Qb and Berry falls to us.
The difference between Jesus and religion Religion mocks you for having dirty feet Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
i agree...i'd be devastated we couldn't get Suh or at least Berry.
i'd look hard at dropping down to 7-10 and picking up Kindle (DE/OLB - Texas)....he's better than Orakpo at the collegiate level....I think he's going to be very good as a 3-4 OLB (nonstop motor + physical freak + mean streak)
That's when it gets tricky. I'm gonna eliminate QB's from the discussion.
I don't think Mays is anywhere near worth that high of a pick, and too high for an ILB. Okung is purely a left tackle. No pass rusher worth the pick. Gerald McCoy has to be the guy, though it isn't the best scenario. Dunlap shouldn't go in the top 15, but almost certainly will.
I'm not incredibly high on Haden. I think he's a top 10 guy, but not top 5.
Best option would be to trade back. I don't like the QB's, and since we don't run a 4-3, there are no players worth taking that high (McCoy isn't a great 3-4 fit). So in that situation, we should try to trade back and take one of the many linebackers. Rolando McClain would be a great pick at ILB. Pass rushers are Jerry Hughes, Sergio Kindle, Everson Griffen, Derrick Morgan (not sure about his fit yet), and Brandon Graham. All of those guys are first round values, but some people aren't sure how good Griffen, Morgan, or Graham would be as an OLB. I like Griffen and Graham, but I haven't seen enough of them to form a true opinion yet, and I'm a lot less certain about Morgan.
But I don't think we will have this issue. Berry won't go with one of those first two or three picks. There's a reason that Sean Taylor, the best safety prospect EVER only went 6th. Teams value other positions with higher emphasis.
Trading back is always an option. I would love a Ricky Williams deal, but realize that is not probably not in the cards.
My feeling is that 3 of the first 4 picks need to be on the offensive side, OL, TE and RB are critical needs. A WR (or 2) and OL need can be satisfied through FA.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
Quote: Next question: Let's say we win another game or 2 and we have the 3rd pick or possibly the 4th. Who would you guys look at assuming Suh and Berry go before us?
Good question, tough but good.
Still too early to say 100% (for me anyway); however...
Okung and Trent Williams are possibilities, but just a bit early. Okung is a leftie, but I think his best side might be on the right in the pros. Williams is a rightie, but can't see him going top 3/4, top 10 perhaps.
Haden is a legitimate option, and if mangini is still here I think this is who he takes (if the decision were his). I like Haden, if he declares (which is almost a certainty).
Way too early for Mays imo. Like his size and physical play, but coverage isn't his strongest area, he's good at it, but not top 5 good, again imo,
Gerald McCoy is up there, when/if he declares.
Dez Bryant could be a top 10 WR, but top 5 might be a reach, prior to workouts. Also I haven't gotten film on him yet, and he was suspended for being an idiot and lying, but really did nothing wrong to question his character (cept hanging out with Deion).
So with pick 3 or 4; I stick with building the lines, either OL or DL. One of the two offensive tackles mentioned, and/or McCoy. I would lean towards McCoy at this time (if he declares). Get my RT in round 2 or 3 and a RG in 3 to 5.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital. Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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