Quote: I have heard this guys name associated with the czar position. What are your thoughts on him? Would he make a good Czar?
I have read he had some great drafts in Houston.
He's the definition of AVERAGE...which in our situation would be a huge upgrade...wouldn't throw a party if he's chosen though but would be willing to give him some time since I don't think anybody better would touch this mess and risk their reputation
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
2008 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Duane Brown T Virginia Tech 3 79 Antwaun Molden CB Eastern Kentucky 3 89 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia 4 118 Xavier Adibi OLB Virginia Tech 5 151 Frank Okam DT Texas 6 173 Dominique Barber FS Minnesota 7 223 Alex Brink QB Washington State
2007 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville 3 73 Jacoby Jones WR Lane 4 123 Fred Bennett CB South Carolina 5 144 Brandon Harrison DB Stanford 5 163 Brandon Frye OT Virginia Tech 6 183 Kasey Studdard G Texas 7 218 Zach Diles LB Kansas State
2006 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 1 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State 2 33 DeMeco Ryans MLB Alabama 3 65 Charles Spencer T Pittsburgh 3 66 Eric Winston T Miami (Fla.) 4 98 Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin 6 170 Wali Lundy RB Virginia 7 251 David Anderson WR Colorado State
2005 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State 3 73 Vernand Morency RB Oklahoma State 4 114 Jerome Mathis WR Hampton 5 151 Drew Hodgdon C Arizona State 6 188 C.C. Brown SS Louisiana-Lafayette 7 227 Kenneth Pettway LB Grambling State
2004 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 10 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina 1 27 Jason Babin OLB Western Michigan 4 122 Glenn Earl SS Notre Dame 6 170 Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame 6 175 Jammal Lord DB Nebraska 6 200 Charlie Anderson LB Mississippi 7 210 Raheem Orr DE Rutgers 7 211 Sloan Thomas WR Texas 7 248 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
2003 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami (Fla.) 2 41 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan 3 67 Antwan Peek LB Cincinnati 3 75 Seth Wand T Northwest Missouri State 3 88 Dave Ragone QB Louisville 4 101 Domanick Williams RB Louisiana State 6 192 Drew Henson QB Michigan 6 214 Keith Wright DT Missouri 7 217 Curry Burns DB Louisville 7 233 Chance Pearce -- Texas A&M Tony Hollings RB Georgia Tech
2002 - Houston Texans Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State 2 33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida 2 50 Chester Pitts T San Diego State 3 66 Fred Weary G Tennessee 3 83 Charles Hill NT Maryland 4 99 Jonathan Wells RB Ohio State 5 136 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico 5 153 Ramon Walker DB Pittsburgh 6 173 Demarcus Faggins CB Kansas State 6 190 Howard Green DT Louisiana State 7 229 Greg White DE Minnesota 7 261 Ahmad Miller -- Nevada-Las Vegas Milford Brown G Florida State
Quote: I have heard this guys name associated with the czar position. What are your thoughts on him? Would he make a good Czar?
I have read he had some great drafts in Houston.
He's the definition of AVERAGE...which in our situation would be a huge upgrade...wouldn't throw a party if he's chosen though but would be willing to give him some time since I don't think anybody better would touch this mess and risk their reputation
I'd rather have a guy who has done it for a long time before, especially one who has been as masterful in his drafting as Charlie has, than Holmgren, who doesn't have the same record of drafting that Charlie Casserly does.
Don't forget, Casserly was the mastermind behind fleecing the Aints for Ricky Williams.
Quote: I don't think anybody better would touch this mess and risk their reputation
I disagree. This situation is so bad that I don't think it could hurt anyone's reputation if they failed here. Someone coming here has everything to gain and nothing to lose. The worst that would be said about someone (a Parcells, Holmgren, Acorsi, Wolf, etc.) is, "Wow, it was so bad there that even HE couldn't get the job done." It would be further indictment on the organization than the individual.
I think these guys would be licking their chops for the opportunity to come here. Have any success at all and your reputation is solidified. Not to mention an owner who could pretty much let you name your price.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
Can someone answer this? Isn't he the same one who said last year that he you be delighted to come in & be the GM of the Browns? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Also, I was gonna start a thread about this but, I don't think it deserves a thread of it's own.
After the Mon. night game, S. Young was talking about the Offense and said something about " This Offense has NO Structure. I think he even mentioned that it was not about talent, It was No Structure what so ever. Can someone enlighten me about structure? Does this mean not properly preparing? No game plan? Or is it deeper, like starting with a base plan and working up to spidering off plays from other plays? Please enlighten me.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
i would assume structure means the entire offensive philosophy and identity. All teams should have an underlying philosophy behind the offense (in which each position plays a role). I bet he means that we have no identity...basically no rhyme or reason to what the hell we're doing
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Ok. I guess that I'm not the only one who thought that since we first took the field it looked like it was drop back & find the open guy. That was it. No over the middle hot reads, see guys coming up the middle & take a bow & fall down, no effort to take off outside. I mean it is getting crazy, has been. It seems the other teams always have a guy thats open either over the middle on a blitz or a come back & help the QB for a quick pass. We just don't seem to have anybody out there, but you know there has to be at least 11 guys out there right? I don't know, I hope they get it right.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
Yeah, but he doesnt miss much in the first couple rounds, thats an improvement big time. He seems to know what a cant miss NFL prospect looks like. You cant say that about any of the Browns management in the past. It seems like the guys in the past cant just get who everyone wants and tries to outsmart everyone by reaching for a combine stud. I wish Butch would have been selective on which Miami products he picked. He passed on Portis and Reed and took Jackson, Gonzalez, and King. Or Florida high school products like Warren that turned him down the first time. I loved the Winslow pick, just wish he didnt traded a 2nd to get him.
Actually, most of his day one picks are backups or out of the league now. They weren't very good. I'd also like to point out that the Mario Williams draft was his last one with Houston.
Quote: Actually, most of his day one picks are backups or out of the league now. They weren't very good. I'd also like to point out that the Mario Williams draft was his last one with Houston.
Id take Demeco Ryans and Andre Johnson over anyone the Browns have had at either position since 09. Those are grand slam picks IMO. Daunte Robinson wasnt too bad and would start opposite of Wright.
One thing about the Browns is that the players dont get the oppurtunity to go practice against top tier talent every day. Well, Rogers and Thomas but thats it. They have zero talent at the skill positions.
Quote: Actually, most of his day one picks are backups or out of the league now. They weren't very good. I'd also like to point out that the Mario Williams draft was his last one with Houston.
He also drafted:
Champ Baily Chris Samuels Andre Johnson ect...
He knows how to build a team...I'd feel much more confident with Charlie than Holmgren, that's for sure.
I'll give you Andre and DeMeco, but Dunta hasn't panned out to his top 10 status. He is solid though. But don't just look at those picks; look at the whole picture. Lot of busts.
And I'm not a big Holmgren fan either, and I honestly don't know who I'd prefer. Probably Casserly, but no certain.
I think if you get three eventual starters and one of them is an impact player from a draft that the draft is pretty successful. I'm asking because I've always thought that.
Casserly wouldn't be my first choice, but who knows? Maybe he'd be the guy to turn this thing around? And, maybe we'll have to "settle" for someone like him - someone not named Shanahan or Gruden or Cowher.
I don't have a lot of positive feelings about Casserly.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
Neither do I. But like Djaino says it's such a huge upgrade to anything we've had here I could live with it.
I could also live with Accorsi or Wolf even though they are up in years. They'd only need about three years to set the organization straight and they could step down. We'd not likely be competitive dynamite yet, but with the organization running well we could then bring in an up and commer who wouldn't be responsible for starting from scratch. Something they've never done.
Casserly has the connections to really put things in motion as Pres. he knows everyone. If he is hired not sure if it would gm/head of football or just one or the other but folks we gotta get some talent in here and it isnt just drafting. We need some home runs in trades and FA.
Quote: Regardless of whether Casserly or Holmgren or someone else gets the job, the first order of business will be to decide the fate of coach Eric Mangini.
You gotta win the hearts and minds of the fans all over again,, the quickest way to set that in motion is to fire Mangini IMO.... so to me, thats the easy part of the job.. Finding a replacement... that's a horse of a different color..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
So do we have the makings of an FO-controversy here soon? Team Holmgren vs. Team Casserly? Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility with Cleveland Browns football!
So do we have the makings of an FO-controversy here soon? Team Holmgren vs. Team Casserly? Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility with Cleveland Browns football!
Holmgren wins just because of the instant cred he brings the organization. Not saying Casserly couldn't get it done, but a Holmgren hire says, "Wow, Homgren running the Browns...they're on their way"! We need that, badly.
I thought Holmgren was an outstanding HC and a ho-hum GM. I think Casserly was an outstanding GM. I wonder if it would work to have Holmgren as Director of Football Operations and Head Coach, while Casserly filled the role of Director of Player Personnel, working for Holmgren. It seems to me that the combined role of GM and HC was too much for Holmgren in Seattle; its too much for most men. But with a strong DPP in charge of scouting, drafting, FA, etc, working at Holmgren's behest, maybe it could work.
Or maybe its just the same mistake we keep making ... Butch/Garcia, Savage/Romeo (which, btw, would be a great name for a rock band), and Mangini/Kokinis ... just thinking out loud ... I hope Lerner's getting some advice from Accorsi, Kosar, Kraft, et al. This is a critical hire - he needs to finally get it right.
So do we have the makings of an FO-controversy here soon? Team Holmgren vs. Team Casserly? Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility with Cleveland Browns football!
Just a guess, but I bet if you polled the fans and gave them a choice of three,Holmgren, Casserly and Other... you would overwhelming get people going with Holmgren..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
he built the Texans from an expansion team to a consistent, solid 8-8 team that hasn't dipped down....that list doesn't include Schaub or his Kubiak/Shanahan hires that obviously paid dividends as well.
that being said, i'm still not a huge Casserly fan...he's proven he can take a team up to competing, but hasn't really gone beyond that.....Holmgren has been a big part of multiple teams that were contenders.
Something I'd like to mention regarding judgement of a GM by the team's win-loss record.
The majority of the credit/blame of the win-loss record goes to the coaching on the field as well as the talent they are coaching. There is one GM picking players. Under him are 30 or so coaches who are coaching 53+ players. Since it's the play on the field that counts and the coaches are the guiding force and in full responsibility of that, then it's hard to point to the GM and say the team's record was not all that great with him as the GM so therefore he didn't do so well.
As the GM you can be feeding the coaching staff very good, talented players but if they are not being used right, if the game planning and schemes are lacking, then the win-loss record will suffer, In addition, as that suffers so does the perception of the quality of the talent.
There are so many variables involved in winning and losing that one cannot point to the win-loss record and give credit or blame to any single entity out of the whole group. The one who is going to take the final responsibility is the HC. But even though that is not totally accurate, somebody's got to be the guy.
Right now, how many picks can we say, 'wow, he's really helped the team?'
Ryan Pontbriand.
Lawrence Vickers.
Joe Thomas.
I'll go ahead and put DQ and Wright on the bubble here. Even if you include them...five. Five players in ten years matter to this football team right now.
Quote: If we get Casserly...which is starting to grow on me. I'd say the Jason Campbell thing can be put to rest. Thank God!
Of course I'm going to take all highlight reels and lowlight reels with a Toyota-sized grain of salt. I'm also not on-board with the idea that Campbell can't succeed in the WCO. Lastly, it's not as though Casserly had a great track record with how he decided to build the Texans, because Carr, while not a bum, wasn't worth the pick.
But I do know my rep can't stand up to Chuck's there, so.... *L*
I simply don't take slanted info and put credence to it. I can build highlight reels of guys like Chaun Thompson and lowlight reels of guys like Joe Thomas, but that doesn't make it so. Charlie is doing what he's paid to do. The perfect example was just last week, when Jaws and Gruden couldn't even take a breath in all their praise of Quinn, yet Steve Young severaly questions him.
I think Campbell can be solid and reliable.
So what about Casserly? Meh......he's done some good and some bad, but I did NOT like how he built the Texans. This team isn't much better than actually starting from scratch, and his lack of doing it right in Houston gives me pause. Remember, when they hired Dan Reeves to come in to evaluate the program, they determined Casserly wasn't all that. He then wanted to get into the NFL's front office, but was passed over for the job. THAT is more telling to me than anything, because that was a move purely about BUSINESS, not talent evaluation.
I understand why he's a candidate, but I think he's living on his Redskins reputation from WAY back in the day. I'm far more interested in Holmgren.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: he built the Texans from an expansion team to a consistent, solid 8-8 team that hasn't dipped down....that list doesn't include Schaub or his Kubiak/Shanahan hires that obviously paid dividends as well.
Sorry to do it, Logo, but I gotta correct or clarify a couple of things.
Casserly left in 2006. The Schaub trade happened in 2007.
When the organization announced that Kubiak had been named the new head coach, it wasn't Casserly, but owner McNair. Casserly "quit" a few months later.
lastly, the Texans finished 2-14 in 2005, so he did help bottom the team out after reaching respectability.
I understand why he'd be a candidate, but his record with the Texans, including Reeves hire as a "consultant" resulting in Charlie leaving a few months later, as well as the NFL passing him over for a league front office job is very telling. I think the fact the league passed him over scares me because that's pure BUSINESS, and if they didn't think him qualified enough to just handle business operations, I don't know why I should be confident in his abilities with the Browns.
No, the more I dig into Charlie, the less I like him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: I think the fact the league passed him over scares me because that's pure BUSINESS, and if they didn't think him qualified enough to just handle business operations, I don't know why I should be confident in his abilities with the Browns.
Why would that scare you? Because they passed on him doesn't mean he wasn't qualified. It doesn't even mean they didn't want to hire him.
It could mean other things... such as, the NFL found a better candidate, or one that was more willing to bend to thier rule.. Or it could have meant they didn't want to pay him what he wanted, or it could have been a personality clash, or it could have been that he didn't want to live in NYC..
There are plenty of possible reasons that don't necessarly mean anything negative.
Having said that, of the two, I'd still take Holmgren first.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I agree with you about CC........way too many ???s about his tenure with the Texans. He never could get any semblance of an OL around Carr, and it ruined him. Furthermore, I don't see where the Skins were a power house either.
I do disagree with you on Cambell. He has all the physical tools no question, but the guy sees the field like Ray Charles. I watched them against Philly, and it was embarrassing how many open WRs he was missing down the field. It was so bad that the announcers were defending him at first, and then by the end of the 3rd quarter started commenting and highlighting the open WRs he was missing on the replay...........kind of like Jaws/Gruden with Quinn Monday..lol.
If this were Cambell's 1st or 2nd year then I would agree with you, but he's been around long enough now that he's a finished product............say no to BOTH CC and JC.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
The only thing I'll say right now is ...if RL does it the right way Casserly wouldn't be the GM...he's be the VPF...then he would hire the GM who would make the picks..make sense? So before people start banging their heads, as I've seen on another board, lets see how it plays out..
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I like it!
*L* 
