DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip
Patrons claim service was so bad, they had to get napkins and silverware for themselves
By DAVID CHANG
Updated 12:20 PM EST, Thu, Nov 19, 2009

Print Email Share Buzz up! TWITTER FACEBOOK

If you’re frustrated by poor service at a restaurant, think twice before you decide to not tip. You may be in for a bit more than just a dirty look from the waiter.

"Nobody, nobody wants to be forced to pay a tip or be arrested for terrible service," Leslie Pope said when her happy hour ended in handcuffs.

Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

Pope claimed that they had to wait nearly an hour for their order and that she had to get napkins and silverware for the table herself.

Weird News Photos
Weird News Photos
LOOK

Weird News Photos

Weirdest Creatures of the World
Weirdest Creatures of the World
LOOK

Weirdest Creatures of the World

Cutest Kids in Hollywood
Cutest Kids in Hollywood
LOOK

Cutest Kids in Hollywood

“At this point I became very annoyed because I had already gone up to the bar myself to have my soda refilled because the waitress never came back,” Pope said.

After the $73 bill came, the group paid for food, drinks, and tax but refused to pay the tip. After explaining the bad service to the bartender in charge, Pope claimed he took their money and called police. The couple was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.

“I understand that, you know, we didn’t pay the gratuity, but it was a gratuity, it wasn’t something that was required,” said Wagner.

The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

“Obviously we would have liked for the patron and the establishment to have worked this out without getting the police involved,” said Deputy Police Commissioner Stuart Bedics.

Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html?yhp=1

Quote:

---

He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

---

So they were wiling to comp the $73 in food ...... but had the people arrested over the $16 tip? Yeah .... somerthing beyond the service stinks with this story ......

The $16 isn't the business's money. Its the servers'. They stole from the waitress/waiter. Many restaurants have it plainly stated on the menu that tables with over x amount of people or a check over $x will be charged 18% gratuity.

Personally I'm sick of seeing cheapskates leave $2 to a server on $60 or even $100 tab. These folks make peanuts for an hourly wage and live on tips. My fiance worked at a fine-dining restaurant that charged 18% for tables of 6 or more. There was one time a group of 15 people, pulled 3 tables together and asked for 3 checks to . Two girls worked it and the bill was over $400. They left the girls less than $1. They were crying after working their butts of for these POS.

The restaurant should be charging them $16. A comped meal + $16 go to the servers. The restaurant can then work things out with the server or whomever was at fault.

I don't mind tipping for good service...and we tip well. But, if you give me crappy service, you get a crappy tip. End of story.

Even if it's a big group...if the service sucks, so does the tip.

When I go to a restaurant with a waiter/waitress, I tip based on the service I recieve.

If I get good to excellent service, I usually tip around 20%, or even more if it is a truly exceptional experience. If I get crappy service and/or an attitude ... then it can be as low as a few cents. I have done a minute tip exactly 1 time ... and the girl was downright rude .... and we waited for almost an hour for our food because she was busy talking to friends of hers and forgot to put our order in. Then she got an attitude with us ... when she finally got back to us and realized that she still had our order in her pocket. Would I have had a problem with an 18% tip being built into that order? Damn right I would have.

I think that it's ridiculous to add in a "mandatory" tip. If you're going to do that, then raise the prices and give the server an increased rate of pay out of the increased price instead.

The couple had a problem with the service they recieved. It was, by this account, extremely poor service. It was such poor service that the management was supposedly willing to comp a $70+ meal. That type of service doesn't deserve a tip.

This happened only about a mile of so from me. On the local news the bartender said he offered to comp the offending drinks. Not the whole meal.
The whole area is basically a collection of college bars and restaurants, so tipping is probably a sore subject when your customer base is mainly college kids.

You still shouldn't be required to tip for crappy service.

Oh I agree, Im flabbergasted that the local cops arrested them over it.

Got ya. Sounds like waiters I've known from Bob Evans. They say the old folks sit there forever and leave a buck. Here's my advice...don't work at Bob Evans.

The service wasn't up to par (in terms of speed) last night at the Mexican restaurant my wife and I frequent, but we extended our waitress a very nice tip (which is usually generous to begin with). It just happened that the place was unusually crowded last night. Since we weren't in any hurry we simply took things in stride. The wife had a couple of margarita's (one of which they comp'ed) and both of us felt and expressed our empathy to the waitress who was really working hard, keeping a terrific attitude, and otherwise had a good handle on the situation.

It is hard to judge the situation in the article. Mostly it provided little to make a judgement whether the place was understaffed or if the staff was lazy or uncompetant?

p.s. I agree with Arch that it was crazy to call the cops.

Sure, there are times when you roll with the punches. But, there are also times you get really crappy service. And, I don't care what the reason is...it shouldn't happen. If they are understaffed, they should tell you before they seat you that your wait may be longer than normal and it won't be the wait persons fault. That way you can decide -- before it becomes an issue -- if you want to roll with it. And, if you choose to do that, you should never penalize the waiter.

Gratuity [gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-]

–noun, plural -ties.

1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.

2. something given without claim or demand.

By the definition of gratuity, the restaraunt nor the police have a leg to stand on. You can't by definition call a mandatory payment a "gratuity".

I agree with the others, if the service is good I tip well.....20% and more (just did tonight....8 bucks for a 32 dollar bill). If it's crappy, I tip very little. A gratuity is a gift for exceptional service. If the waitress is polite and working hard, I don't hold slowness or mistakes by the kitchen against her. I realize that she's paid poorly and depends on tip money.

Whatever.

And yeah, you're probably right.

I'd love to see restaurants that mandate the tip - i.e. include it in the bill...have to deal with people not eating there. Would love to see the uproar from that.....when they go out of business for including a mandatory tip, regardless of service.

Yet another sign of this country: "I'm entitled".

Ya don't like working for tips? Don't. Ya don't like working at a below minimum wage job? Don't.

There are many other people out there that would love to wait. My son recently applied at a nice place in columbus - and they told him he was the 400th person that applied that week.

There are people out there that will take their chances at getting a table a night that doesn't tip well, because they still make decent money.

It's nothing for my son to come home, work at a restaurant here, and leave with $300 to $400 in his pocket after working a friday night shift, a double on saturday, and working sunday. Even with the bad tippers included.

When he used to gripe about not getting a good tip I told him "go get a job at a gas station, or mcdonalds - they're always hiring."

His response? "Why, so I can only make $7 an hour? I make a lot more than that waiting tables"

And then he'd realize what he had just said. He doesn't gripe much about tips anymore.

And granted, he's not feeding a family. But he is paying his rent, utilities, and spending money out his waiting tables gig.

a lot of restaurants mandate a tip when the party exceeds 5 or 6... because the waitress is busting her ass and if she gets stiffed it's complete crap.

in this case, they were definitely wrong, however, if the service is poor something should have been done. i think the owner is making himself bad by lying. for one he probably didn't offer to comp some things as the customer probably would have paid the tip had that happened. you never know for sure, but i would be willing to bet he never offered them anything.

i think the thing that irks me the most was that the owner said "well, we were busy'

what a crap statement. welcome to the restaurant business, buddy, you're always going to be busy, you should be prepared for it, and you should welcome the challenge as it is the only way you will survive.

i've worked in restaurants in my younger years and have seen how it operates, i have seen us be short-staffed and still get the job done, nobody has ever had to go up and ask for a drink because nobody would refill them.

i also saw the owner of a very popular restaurant tell customers who stiffed the waitress to never come back again, didn't call the cops just basically said you are no longer welcome here. in this case there was no bad service, just bad customers.

I'm kind of surprised the cops would actually arrest the couple....

I try to tip as much as good as the service is.. if I get bad service based upon how the waiter/ress acted then they get barely anything if at all.. if food takes forever to get there it's ok as long as the waiter acknowledges it, because then the kitchen is at fault..

I've only had one bad experience which lead me to just leave a note that read, "Good service equals a good tip." mainly because the waitress pretty much ignored our table and spent all her time "flirting" with a couple of young guys and hovering over at another table and it didn't look like the type of flirting for a tip either.. Of course, this was only at a Denny's type place... but we usually pitched in $2-3 each(party of 5) for the tip on a meal that ran around $7-9.

j/c

I honestly think that EVERYONE should get a job waiting tables at one point in their lives. It would definitely change peoples perceptions when it comes to tipping...LOL

I waited as well as bussed tables during college, and since that time I have become a much better tipper...LOL I usually start at 20% and go from there. It has to be pretty bad service to get a bad tip from me. And I have done it...although it may not be as bad as others might think....As long as I can tell the server is working and trying...they will be getting at least 20% from me...

Having said that...with the limited amount of information we have....I don't blame the couple one bit. As someone posted before....so what that you were busy...you are a restaraunt...that is what it is supposed to be like...that is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for even some of the things the couple is claiming. I know if I see the place is super busy and the staff is busting their butt and racing around....even though the end product on my side wasn't up to standards...I am probably going to leave a large tip because I see the effort.......And I am sure I am not the only one.

But I get the feeling that this was not the case....and so I lean towards the couple in this instance.....

Just to add...if the owners were willing to comp the meal....why didn't they and just let the people leave(they already had their money) and give that money to the servers???

nrtu

Busy or not, it is the mangers job to ensure all the customers are being taken care of, and if they aren't he should intercede.

I'm sure many have noticed that more and more you find the shift manager making the rounds these days asking how everything is. I have told a manager when they stopped by the table that we've been have trouble getting our servers attention for more drinks, or they forgot the side sauces or something, and got immediate results and often a free round of drinks or something. And then I tip 20% or so, a little under maybe if the server was just lazy and slow, or standard tip if they were just really busy.

But I have been in a situation where the server just sucked(I flagged her down and she was on her cellphone, actually came to the table and asked the person on the phone to "hang on a sec", on top of several other poor service attempts), the manager refused to acknowledge our complaints, and they got a very minimal tip, even one time just $1. I always leave something, so they know I didn't just forget.

Quote:

---

I usually start at 20% and go from there. It has to be pretty bad service to get a bad tip from me. And I have done it...although it may not be as bad as others might think....As long as I can tell the server is working and trying...they will be getting at least 20% from me...

---

Same here, I rarely, if ever, tip below 20%.

i think the worst experience i ever had was at a carabba's. the food is great, no question, but my girlfriend ordered a salad with her meal, a few minutes into it, she started to feel her throat get scratchy. she went into the bathroom and coughed up part of the plastic bag, a small piece which was pretty sharp on one end. she was bleeding because of it. the manager gave her a free dessert, probably because she didn't cough it up at the table and make a scene, i was disgusted by the move. her meal should have been free, and you could argue they probably should have even done more than that.

some people just don't understand good service, good customer service, that is.

i ususally tip 20-25% if the server is even remotely good. and me being the nice guy i am i will throw in 15% if the service is not good. just because i know some people have bad days, we all have them. i give them the benefit of the doubt.

however, i probably wouldn't have paid the tip on the bill in this couple's position if i had to wait an hour for my food and if i had to go up and get my own drink.

This thread reminds me of Mr. Pink's views on tipping from Reservoir Dogs. A few to many F Bombs to be posted on here, but worth the watch!

Dumbest thing I've heard in a while... Waste of police time and effort,

This should clear up what kinda place this is..

http://lehighvalley.metromix.com/restaurants/american/lehigh-pub-bethlehem/195153/content

On one end... it's the server's fault. They know they get paid in tips. So do what the job intends. If the service is bad then they deserve what tip they recieve.

A little known fact is that if you don't make minimum wage through the tips you recieve the employer is supposed make up the difference for hours worked.

Funny you should mention that ... Living in Latin America as long as I did , I always ran into Europeans .. They absolutely would go bonkers ever time I left a handsome tip when dinning out with them .. America is the problem of all the worlds INFLATION .. .. Latino servers Loved Americans ! ( and we get better service , who would believe )

18%----$16 dollars. Cheapskates should have paid!!!!!! Good to see they got hassled the way they did.

The thing with being a server is that you are at the mercy of so many other people.

Say its a busy night and someone calls off last minute and you haven't got a replacement---now you have got to take care of more tables than you can really handle while giving great service.

Thats not your fault----its the managers fault for not having alternates ready---should your tip suffer b/c someone else isn't doing their job.

The food comes out under/over cooked. You didn't cook it----the kitchen did. They said---this is MR, or M, or W, or whathaveyou-----customer says its not right---is that the servers fault.

should their tip suffer b/c the chef screwed up?

The bar is extremely busy, their is only one bartender. That bartender is focusing on his customers instead of making your drinks for your table---should your tip suffer b/c their aren't enough bartenders for the shift, or b/c the bar is unusually busy?

No Bussers showed up, so you have to bus all your own tables, this means you have to take time out of serving to bus. People aren't happy with the time you are able to spend with them.

Should your tip suffer b/c you need to clean tables that someone else should have been doing?


The answer is NO, it shouldn't.

But some people think the freaking world revolves around them, and no matter what the situation is---they need nonstop attention. And they will complain about EVERYTHING!!!!

People will connive just to find things to justify to themselves not tipping. Like, can you take my steak back----OK cool, you want one cooked more to your liking---no prob.

Everyone else's steak is good.

Yes.

Cool.

You come back with another steak and someone else at the table---someone who just said they were fine, is complaining that their steak needs cooked differently too.

So now you take their steak back.

This goes this way for four people straight.

Then they tell you the service sucked, cuz the server should have known to take ALL the steaks back at once......

even though

EVEN THOUGH

You ASKED them how their steaks were multiple times and they said fine.

Sometimes customers will tell you everything is fine, when its not---then expect you to somehow read their minds and realize its not really fine---though they said it was!!!!!

Servers ALWAYS deserve AT LEAST 15%.

This is b/c bad service doesn't always mean that they were being a poor server---and you aren't in a position to know what was going with the restaurant that particular day.

Unless the server does something tremendously rude, crude, offensive, I don't think its OK to leave anything under 15%.


Pair all of this with the fact that servers DEPEND on tips. They make less than 4 bucks an hour an stifing a server is str8 heartless.

Sure, they could get another job---but a lot of times, they are single mothers who need the flexible schedule a serving job allows. Not your fault---but have some consideration.

I tend to view people who tip less than 15% as SCUM!!!!

I have worked as a server and have millions of stories about moronic customers. And I also know that most of the time, bad service comes as a result of other things within the microcosm of the restaurant that go south.

I remember being the only server on a saturday. And we got slammed. I ha probably close to 30 tables, and people were forced to wait to order. I had bussers taking drink orders and trying to run food. It got stupid. It got to a pint where I was giving tables a pad of paper an a pencil saing write down your orer and I will be back in 5-10. People complained to me about having to wait twenty minutes for service-----I tried to explain that I was THE ONLY SERVER THERE!!!!!!!

Not my fault---but I take the brunt of it---get a bad tip.

Sore spot huh?
Tyler if you told me that you were the only server I could deal w/ it. If someone is " busy" but is talking on cell or with other servers or the cooks....well that's different. I hear you though. There are a lot of cheap people out there. On the other side you ever flip some cash to the cooks if a meal was really really good and you got a massive tip b/c of it?
I cooked for 6 years and only once did a waitress do that. I made more per hour than the waitstaff, but in the end they smoked me on take home. I cooked the food they only serverd it.

Just pulling your chain.

Nice rant.. but some servers just suck.

I waited tables for many years through college and grad school, mostly at higher end places, and have experienced pretty much every situation you described.... sometimes my tips suffered, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they even went up in a bad situation if you handled it correctly and explained to them exactly what the problem was and how YOU were going to fix it for them...

I once got a 40% tip from a couple on an $80 dinner check after dumping a glass of red wine in her lap.. it is possible.

Best tip I had gotten was 20% on $3500. It was some young couples engagement party. I split the tip with one other server and two bussers but still walked with almost three hundred on one table alone.

I actually got a tip for selling shirts for OAR at a concert too. it was like 300 bucks or something like that. We did over 70K in sales and the dude was so pumped he handed us each a wad of cash. We were making 15/hr as it was. That was real cool.

Servers can make real good money from time to time. But in the meantime you have to deal with some real pieces of work.

We used to have this one guy who came in all the time. We all called him Goldilocks because of his long flowing blonde hair. He left a dollar evertime---no matter what. Thats it. One dollar---no more, no less. He was an angry person. Always very crude about everything.

I got a tip similar to that once at the Hilton outside of DC from these rap execs who were in town wining and dining this rap star wannabe... they pounded through $400/bottle champagne one after another...

A couple things I learned while waiting tables.. if there is a problem, tell the people there is a problem. If you screwed up an order, make it right. Men tip better than women generally. And if you ever deliver room service to a room at the Hilton and there are 3 young black guys in the room with the lights off and stacks of $20 bills on the bed, don't ask.

Welcome to the customer service business. It's your job to be nice to all of the customers no matter the circumstances. There are aholes in all walks of life. The customer is paying to be served a meal.....if the service is good, he should leave a good tip. If the service isn't, he shouldn't. By definition, nobody "owes" anyone a gratuity.

Quote:

---

The customer is paying to be served a meal.....if the service is good, he should leave a good tip. If the service isn't, he shouldn't. By definition, nobody "owes" anyone a gratuity.

---

You are partially right.. and partially wrong.

The patron is actually paying for the food and for the chef to prepare the food and for the dishwasher to clean up after and for the building, the rent, the linens, the electric bill, etc... the server is making well BELOW minimum wage to serve the food (when I was a waiter, minimum wage was in the $5 range and I was making $1.50/hour)... so the patron isn't really paying for the server when he pays the check unless he leaves a tip. In fact I rarely even got a check, the check did nothing more than cover the taxes on the tips I declared.

That is the part of Tyler's original post that I agree with.. quite often a dining experience can be unpleasant and it has NOTHING to do with the server.. the foods cooked wrong, the drinks aren't mixed right, the food is slow from the kitchen.. there are dozens of things that can make a dining experience unpleasant that are outside of the servers control, yet the server is usually the one that gets punished financially. The chef is still getting paid even if the food is awful or if it comes out late. Having been a server for a long time myself I know enough to take those things into consideration but a lot of people don't.