DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage, Lerner address Romeo, Tressel, Cowher, Frye, O-line

J/c
What happened to discussing what was actually in the article? I think adding a young defensive lineman would be a great idea.

[color:"white"]Not going to go back down that road in this thread, but I'd urge you to go back and watch the Falcs game again. Those holes weren't there like you think they are. [/color]

Yeah I don't mind the side bar but lets kinda go back to the content of the article everyone.

Re-reading the article, it seems to me that Savage and Lerner are saying the same things we're saying on here: DL needed; OL needed; QB situation not 100% clear.

I didn't see anything that lead me to believe that Frye is going to be gone, not at all. It just said to me that they're going to evaluate it at the end of the year. That's what we'd want. I wouldn't want them sticking with him just because they don't want to eat their words that he's our QB of the future. If he struggles mightily in these last 6 games, then we may go a different direction.

However, if he continues to improve bit by bit, I see us holding on to him for at least another year. Give him an improved OL and then we'll get an accurate read on him.

It's nice to see that Savage and Lerner want continuity, and also that they recognize our weaknesses.

Let's blame this on the Toad... He gets flamed and flogged around here enough and proves to be the perfect scapegoat... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Good tadpoles are quiet tadpoles <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't grow up to be a Toad. It's rough bein' one of those <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />[/color]

I'm pulling for Frye but not because he is a local kid or that I really like him but for the fact I don't want to take a QB on the first day. I really am hoping to go OL in 1 and 3 and DL in 2. It would be nice to pick up a good pass rushing end to go opposite of Wimbley. I just rewatched the 2nd half of the Steelers game and I lost track of how many times Wimbley moved Ben in the pocket only to have nobody on the other side to be in position for the sack.

When he talks about the QB situation. He might be refering to the fact we have no real backups.

I am losing my tail now... The legs are starting to sprout.. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]
I hear ya Pdawg.

*cough* *cough*[/color]

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Per your wishes my friend... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


As much as Phil touches on the O-line and needing to address it, I WONDER if he places as much value on Joe Thomas and his skills as us fans do... Furthermore, I wonder if he views him enough of a difference maker that he would trade up a few spots to get him barring we don't have to sell the farm... I wish that we had the draft value chart available right now but I am wondering what it would cost to move from #8-9 to say the 2-3 spot...

Sadly enough, we will have to beat Az to the punch...

Starting QB... CHECK
Stud WR's... Check and Check...
Aged but more than capable RB... CHECK...

Yep, Az will go after Joe Thomas, You can DAMN near BANK on it!!

Wasn't Baba cut from the practice squad when we signed one of the extra DBs? I'm not sure, but I don't think he's with the team anymore...

It would cost too much in my opinion. We need to keep all of our first day picks. I guess trading one of next years picks might be ok depending on how we sit after FA.

[color:"white"]I'd love Thomas as well, but would I rather have a defensive starter AND a starting guard rather than just Thomas from the first couple of rounds?

Yeah, I would.

Thomas is going to be a top-5 guy from the looks of things. That means we have to lose out.

I'm all about getting higher draft selections, but I think losing the rest of our games would do far more damage than the good of getting someone like Thomas.[/color]

Baba is still on the practise squad. We promoted a few DBs up and then we had Baxter go on IR.

I am wondering why he was cut in the 1st place... The kid DOES have smarts... I mean the kid has an engineering degree... I am thinking it had more to do with physical skills and less to do with understanding/fitting into the system...

[color:"white"]From what I saw in preseason, it had everything to do with him being shoved around like a cat toying with a sock. [/color]

Maybe it had something to do with him making Fisk look like a good NT against the run <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OUCH... Maybe he can get on the Hank Fraley Diet plan to fatten him up so he doesn't become an overgrown puss... Better yet, maybe Big Ted could invite him over for Thanksgiving... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Osh isn't strong enough yet to play the nose..he's more of a DE...

Physically he isnt there yet. The advantage is that he has really had this year to work with the trainer. He will have the entire offseason to work with the trainer. His technique really came around in camp and preseason and he appears to have the work ethic to take that next step physically. Remember this was a kid with no pass rush skills coming out of college and he was one of our best pass rushers in preseason.

NOOOOO don't send him to Ted's, he will end up getting stuffed and eaten <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As much as I HATE Michigan, Woodley has impressed me ALL year but his size is rather smallish... Could he succeed as Freeney did? To me he lacks that burst that Dwight has... IMHO, he won't go as high as he SHOULD do to being a smaller DE... Maybe this is SICK of me to think this way but I wonder how Woodley would do at ILB...

Another note though (the talk of Babs getting pushed around made me think this way) Pittcock would be IDEAL at DE for us...

Always SO MANY choices... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BADdog:


Good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way. I have to think Savage is going to go after someone with some experience to backup Frye for next year (if Frye makes it out of this year as our starter). Every time Frye gets hit, I find myself thinking "my god, if he can't go on, can we possibly win with Anderson/Dorsey?"

Pdawg:


Oh man, amen to that. Were there any times in the game that Ben got flushed to his left? From what I remember, he got flushed to his right (away from Wimbley) almost exclusively. He then would have plenty of time to run around, make a picnic lunch, and then find an open receiver.

And there it is
Those are the major needs folks.
Yes, we have other concerns...but if those 2 things were fixed (not neccesarily in that order) you'd see a vast improvement in our record.
Those of us that have been watching this team since '99 know that our OL has been dragging us down like an anchor (no matter what the newbies are saying). We've had to go with many more plays that get the ball out to the receivers quickly because they KNOW there won't be much time to throw. We've had to 'set up' our run palys as much as possible so it MIGHT have some success.

I hate to quote Butch, but he made at least one profetic statement "Until we fix the OL, nothing will change.". AND NOTHING HAS. We still lose twice as much as we win.

RD is getting older, they've done away with Willie Green, so RB is something we need to look at. CB could be an issue??? The DL needs to be addressed...but THIS YEAR...before all else, we must finally put major efforts into upgrading the OL...not just filling holes, but upgrading.
Savage mentioned the OL last year and made some effort. He's mentioned it again. No previous regime has done it right and that's why they're gone...because ya can't win without one.

Damn, somebody else that "get's it,..." You can't "build" an OL through FA and walk-ons, you've got to draft it. Just go ahead and look at the OLmen in this league that are from JUST the Big Ten,....hell you could concentrate on just the ones that are from Whisky, Michigan and Ohio State,....

Just draft OLmen for a while people,...position players are a dime a dozen. Good OLmen are not.

Good read

Glad Randy is smart enough to stick with RAC and Savage for a little while. Can't change coaches every two years and think you're going to have a winning record.

i'm also glad to hear savage admit inferiority when it comes to the offensive line/blocking

i just hope he follows through and actually does something about it, or else we will be subject to watching this offense do nothing every week, and more importantly, do nothing in the 4th quarter, where games are won or lost, where it matters, we have to be the worst 4th quarter offense in the history of the league, how many offensive touchdowns that weren't garbage touchdowns have we had this year?

i'm also glad to hear him let everyone know that romeo is here to stay, he didn't beat around the bush, romeo is here to stay

romeo may not have been a head coach before last season, but he does not need to prove himself to this organization, he's been part of winning organizations in several different cities, i think this organization needs to prove more to him than vice versa...

it would really make me smile if we can draft a promising blocker in our first 2 or 3 picks... i hate watching a line derived of guys who probably won't be here 2 or 3 years from now...

as far as frye goes... i just don't know, for now, he is our only option, but i am not sold on him being our guy, but the offensive line always sways me to stick with him until he gets a fair shot...

defensively, i love what some of the young guys have been bringing..

i love jones and russell at the safety positions...

when healthy, our secondary is great, because we have pretty good depth at the cornerback position...

jackson, wimbley, those guys are coming along...

andra davis is kind of the charlie frye of the defense, my opinion varies each week, sometimes he shows flashes of being a pro bowl player, and other times he wiffs on tackles, falls on his ass, makes the wrong decision...

as a unit, they really learned a big lesson with that steeler loss... you will never do anything if you blow leads to division opponents...

I feel the same way...then I think..We are 3 -7...We aren't really winning with Frye...

I think the comment from Savage is simply a recognition of the obvious.

The play of the offensive line has not been adequate. We can cite examples of deficiencies in the RB (both from a skill, and pass block ability), question the young QB's ability to read defenses on the run, or locking on to a single receiver, question the receivers ability to run the proper route or catch a ball with reasonable proficiency, and question the former OC's ostrich approach to playcalling and adjustments to unfavorable defensive formations.

Those points aside, it comes back to the inability of the Oline to block for the RB's and QB. I see a QB with less than 3 seconds before pressure is upon him, and I see holes that a gnat could not get through. I see a team that is inable to score in the red zone, because of the inability to run. Droughns is a "power back" that scores very few touchdowns. This is inconsistent.

It is obvious that Coleman was a 2 year rent-a-vet and Andruzzi is inconsistent. We all know that the Bentley injury really hurt, but we need to move on.

Moving on involves drafting OL that become productive starters. And keeping the ones that can still play.

Defensively, we have a better pass rush than last year, but the Browns still lack a consistent pass rush. Look at the time that is given to other QB's. If Frye had similar time, I would suggest that his passer rating would be 20 points higher.

I am firmly in the fix the OL and DL camp.

DawgStyle U and Vette share similar views..Savage KNOWS his Dline isn't dominate and he has no real NT behind Ted..thats where I think he goes first on D..getting a massive young run stuffer might be the thing to look for early IF he doesn't aquire one in FA.

I'm fairly confident as well that this will be the plan. Our biggest concern across the OL is the C and G positions. Bentley will return, and you don't have to draft G in the 1st round to get a good one.

The most basic tenets in football are being able to run the ball and being able to stop the other team from running the ball. Once you can do those things with confidence, everything else falls easily into place.

[color:"orange"]Good to see Randy on the same page and not wavering from where he left it.

We are heading in the right direction and sticking with it.

OL DL Savage gets it <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He aint going to spill the beans about everything (Running Back...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

If one is there as a good BPA he should be ours...if one is not we still got many things to improve on.

Danielle...I am pretty sure Hank will be getting a fair 2-3 year offer from us.
We will be seeing much more of you <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And your eyes were not deceiving you. There was a step in our Running attack not seen all year.

Toad: if Danielle noticed it I believe it is confirmed by Hank as being noticeable too which in turn might possibly be confirmed by the OL as being noticeable too.

RB... QB... if you lose the trust of the OL you are through. The mental aspects of this game is great. When an OL feels that their hard work will become successful with one party and not the other. That little extra effort sometimes ends up going one way and not the other. Not premeditatedly...subconciously.

I got a feeling RD is done - oh he will still get his starting reps. But we will not be putting all the eggs in the RD basket any longer.

JMHO...oh and the brutal honest interpretation of yourself was funny lol <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

3 routes as I see it: draft, FA, or trade. We don't have many tradeable guys that would get us much in return, so that's unlikely. This next FA group looks to be depressing. So we're down to the draft.

Phil, please drafted a guard or two during the first day!

We've been two guards away from a decent line since we had the #3-rated LT in the game. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Get the line built up for a few years and then we can be more flexible with FAs/drafts. Look at KC, they had the line & Priest, but hey there's LJ why not grab him?

It seems like he's trying to build that dominant D, which makes sense: BAL/PITT have ruled the division with defense for the last decade (Cinn has no chance at continued success until they fix their D). So I understand getting some D-line stud in the first who can play half or more of the snaps next year (I hate 'em but that Branch kid looks pretty good and there are some great-looking SEC guys too). We could use an end and tackle so I won't complain if he takes either.

But after that, if we keep taking guys who fall into our lap (the Wilson pick--who may be needed to step up if Cutt is gone, or we trade BE <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />since K2 is gonna be our focus in the passing game) rather than build up those hogs, we'll waste the careers of our offensive "stars."

Will someone please tell Tony Grossi to shut his darn mouth now.... First he starts rumors that Tressel would only leave OSU for the Browns HC job... Well geez, do ya think? Now he's on to Cowher.. Really, Grossi should shut up and go away!

I agree with your statements Mourgrym about DL in free agency unless a steal is there on draft day[but anymore it's a crap shoot]. The OL is harder to find on F.A. but a little easier to grade out on draft day before the draft...in terms of 1st class or coach. We must pick up at least one who is able to start right away.
The QB issue must be addressed...Frye is a gutsy and endearing football player who would be willing to play special teams if he was replaced at QB just to play ball. This however is not good enough!
Would we replace Davis at MLB if we found a more effective player for our system? I believe so. Would we replace Braylon Edwards if we found a better receiver with ht.,speed and surer hands? Yes, we would.

So if we can get a more complete QB with a stronger arm and with adequate footwork we should take him and Frye sits.

[color:"white"]You had a feeling that Green was back in the mix last year too <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey, Droughns was supposed to split carries from the beginning. Eventually, it was going to get back to that point anyway. If it's not this year, it'll be next year, so suggesting it has always been a matter of when, not if, even by me.

If Wright is better than Droughns, he'll start when Droughns is fully healthy. Watching the games, no back is going to do well behind this sorry line, and as has been said a million times not only by me but by people in the know, speed in a back isn't everything.

Frankly, I'd rather that Wright showed enough to earn the secondary back duties, that way we don't have to waste a draft pick on a back.

I'll also say that spending a 1st day pick on a back would be a complete waste. We have far greater needs, as Droughns isn't the problem people make him out to be.[/color]

[color:"red"]The most basic tenets in football are being able to run the ball and being able to stop the other team from running the ball [/color]

So we see Phil's comments about the question marks on the Oline..I would luv to know WHAT questions he actually is trying to answer..much the same as we have discussed?
I think so.
One FA OG, one drafted OG...
The Dline is easier...no NT behind Ted...we have a glut of DE's..and Osh should be positioned there also..I see one more Tweener added on the Strongside behind Willie.
One DT in FA or the draft...One CB..one OLB..
One RB..either FA or second day draft.
QB....?????? I say FA pickup.

Droughns is a huge problem, you need to learn the difference between quickness and speed - Droughns lacks both. We need a back desperately. Give me a gamebreaking back that needs a tiny crack to get through. A RB who needs a crack will completely open the o-line up, d-line won't be as fast to rush the QB. This team needs a back people are afraid of.

Picking a guy that can start day one should be the priority next season..getting another OG with pick 4-7 won't cut , unless Phil strikes in FA..