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Old thread is locked, so I took the liberty of starting a new one. I don't expect him to repeat last week's #s today against the Bungles, but I would like BQ (and the offense as a unit) to avoid falling back into the pre-Detroit offensive nightmare. BQ showed some positive signs - even though obviously it was against a weak 'D' - now he has to keep it rolling in the right direction. This thread isn't just about the Bengals game; this is about BQ showing enough over the final six weeks to justify moving into 2010 with him as our starter. I think DA is probably done here, I don't like the sounds of the 2010 QB class, not crazy about a lot of the FAs who may or not be out there next spring. Here's part of a new Doerschuk story: Quote:
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff writer
Posted Nov 28, 2009 @ 07:01 PM
Last update Nov 28, 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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BEREA — What’s next for Brady Quinn after he flew out of a funk with a four-touchdown game at Detroit?
Brian Daboll came away mentioning Quinn, Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman in the same breath. What? Let the offensive coordinator explain.
“Brady has started eight games,” Daboll said — Quinn is 1-7 in those starts, including 0-5 in 2009.
“How was Peyton (Manning) going to be after eight games? He had 11 touchdowns, 16 picks, a 1-7 record. Troy Aikman was 0-8.”
Manning is always in the Pro Bowl. Aikman is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Quinn is in Cincinnati, basically in Daboll’s shoes, trying to prove he deserves his job. It has been hard for them to avoid stepping on each other’s toes.
Daboll has said all along that benching Quinn after three starts in favor of Derek Anderson was the right decision at the time. Quinn has said this week that he would love to work again with his former Notre Dame head coach, Charlie Weis, who seems doomed at Notre Dame.
Nothing Quinn or Daboll has said makes it fair to say they are stuck with each other for the next six games. Yet, one suspects an undercurrent of tension amid their professionalism.
Daboll wasn’t saying Quinn might be the next Manning or Aikman. He also has researched Joey Harrington, who was 3-5 after eight starts but lost 12 of his next 13.
He knows about Tim Couch and Charlie Frye, who were a combined 3-13 after their first eight starts, en route to the boulevard of broken dreams.
“I don’t know where Brady is going to be from now on, but I am happy with the game that he had. I am encouraged by the kid in terms of his work ethic and his understandings,” said Daboll, 34.
“I think the more he plays, the better chance he’ll have to be successful.... I have hope for Brady. I think he is a smart guy who has all of the intangibles that you look for. You have to remember, he’s a young guy.”
Daboll and Quinn both deserve credit for working through stifling statistics and criticism, and delivering lots of points and 439 yards of production in a 38-37 loss at Detroit. The Lions are a bad team, but they had been allowing 386.2 yards a game.
For the Browns to be ahead of the curve in any offensive sense was progress. Their offensive average had been a miserable 214.3.
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I would really love to get Charlie Weis in here.. I dont think ND will fire him though.. but then again.. U never know.
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Quote:
I would really love to get Charlie Weis in here.. I dont think ND will fire him though.. but then again.. U never know.
just clicking...
While I'm sure Weis is going to be available, a lot would have to line up like the stars for him to be hired by the Browns.
Weise will have a flood of offers at the college level, from HC to OC. In the NFL, Weise might get offers for OC in the NFL but it will depend on the offensive system a HC wants to run.
jmho...mac
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Quote:
Weise will have a flood of offers at the college level, from HC to OC. In the NFL, Weise might get offers for OC in the NFL but it will depend on the offensive system a HC wants to run.
I don't think Weise goes back to the College Level. If anything, he might take a year off, but after that, he'll be back as an OC in the NFL, which I'm guessing somewhere under the Belichick Tree, or Belichick himself with the Patriots.
It's a pipe dream to have him here in Cleveland, but it'll never work.
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Weiss and Mangino both need to take the year off and go hang with Jarod at Subway.
#GMSTRONG
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Weiss and Mangino both need to take the year off and go hang with Jarod at Subway.
THUD....That's the sound of Jarod falling off the tubby wagon after hangin with those two lards!!!
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We HAVE to stick with Quinn for the rest of the year. Good, bad, ugly, average - no matter what, he should play every snap unless he's injured.
2 main reasons for this: 1. He needs game experience and the team needs to see what he can do in order to make future decisions concerning qb (whether the coach is here next year or not), and 2, benching him again would probably ruin him from a confidence point of view.
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I'd bet a new regime will want to see Quinn or even Anderson with some good protection before they jettison either. There's enough work to be done without having thrown a serviceable QB to the curb and having to fill that spot.
But then again...
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You hear that thud? That was Quinn crashing back to Earth. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quinn further proves he isn't a NFL QB. Dude doesn't trust himself at all. The Lions secondary as expected, was terrible and gave easy cushions to the WR which gave Quinn all the confidence to throw downfield, no matter how inaccurately.
Either you got it kid, or you don't. Right now, you are Charlie Frye 2.
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Our receivers are the worst in the league. But Quinn isn't much better. Terrible accuracy in the short game. Time to start looking at Clausen, Bradford, and Locker.
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WR's hardly worst in game, young talent that can produce when given a shot, they will only get better. That last misthrow by Quinn was a classic. Manning would have winked at the blitzer as he quickly delivered it to the slot man and continued on the drive.
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Quinn made about 4 NFL throws today.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quinn made about 4 NFL throws today.
Time to cut Steve Young again. His rant at Quinn hit the nail. Oh yeah, I don't want Clausen, no more domers please.
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Quote:
WR's hardly worst in game, young talent that can produce when given a shot, they will only get better. That last misthrow by Quinn was a classic. Manning would have winked at the blitzer as he quickly delivered it to the slot man and continued on the drive.
You can't have it both ways. I do think Quinn is a bum, but if you think our receivers are any good, you're mistaken. We have no true 1, maybe even not a true 2. Mass is up and down, stuckey has been ok, but he dropped one today as well. Too many drops for me. We have freakin josh cribbs as a receiver, that should tell you something. Name 1 team that has a worse group than ours???
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I can't wait until this stiff is out of here.
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Quote:
Quote:
WR's hardly worst in game, young talent that can produce when given a shot, they will only get better. That last misthrow by Quinn was a classic. Manning would have winked at the blitzer as he quickly delivered it to the slot man and continued on the drive.
You can't have it both ways. I do think Quinn is a bum, but if you think our receivers are any good, you're mistaken. We have no true 1, maybe even not a true 2. Mass is up and down, stuckey has been ok, but he dropped one today as well. Too many drops for me. We have freakin josh cribbs as a receiver, that should tell you something. Name 1 team that has a worse group than ours???
I am not having it both ways, how can the WR's suck when the QB can't get them the ball? Denial is amazing at times.
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Quinn was off today but not as bad as you say. Did anybody count the number of dropped passes? Are our young WRers always where they are supposed to be? Was the pass rush excessive? Was the playcalling ridiculus? I'm not a big BQ fan but some of you guys are nuts.This my friend is one of the big reasons why we suck.
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Quote:
Quinn was off today but not as bad as you say. Did anybody count the number of dropped passes? Are our young WRers always where they are supposed to be? Was the pass rush excessive? Was the playcalling ridiculus? I'm not a big BQ fan but some of you guys are nuts.This my friend is one of the big reasons why we suck.
Agreed bro on everything.
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I'm not in denial. I said before I don't think Quinn is good, but I watched receivers drop ball after ball. they wern't all perfect passes, but catchable nonetheless. maybe you should watch the game again.
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Quote:
You hear that thud? That was Quinn crashing back to Earth.
What thud? It only happened in homer heads....Quinn never left earth...he was the same scared, happy feet, backfoot throwing, inaccurate QBin DET as he was today
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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We do not currently have an offense that could ever allow for consistant, good QB play.
We have NO running game. We have NO recievers who seem to be able to catch a ball. We have NO offensive line (players, but no line). We have an OC with NO clue.
There were certainly opportunities that BQ missed. A lot. There were a lot of opportunities that DA missed as well. No doubt. But this team requires absolutely perfect, flawless execution from the QB spot. Most teams can make up for less than flawless QB play. But we have no chance. We have nothing to overcome that.
Expecting solid QB pereformances week after week just isn't possible with these guys. They have NO help.
I feel sorry for the both of them. And for the poor kid who has to sit by and watch as he gets drafted into this stinking mess.
If I were a QB coming out next year, Cleveland would be the very last place I would ever want to play for.
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Yeah the Browns definitly have a ton of problems i think this sums it up pretty nicely Browns worse then 0-16 Detroit Lions? Its kinda sad things have gotten "this bad" for this franchise....we are messed up badly I just wonder if us Browns fans can be "patient" for at least 3 years on whomever the football czar is to fix this mess. It would probably take Parcells 3 years to fix this mess...Miami had a base of decent talent like Ronnie Brown, Joey Porter, Ted Ginn, and some other players to work with..the Browns got Josh Cribbs, Joe Thomas, and Shaun rogers...thats pretty much it..the Dolphins had a much better backside of the roster then we got here its going to be a long haul....
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All very good points reddog. This is why I hope they don't waste an early pick on a QB. No one can succeed with this system and players right now, least of all a rookie QB. I feel their only options are to stick it out with BQ or sign a steady veteran as a holdover to groom the next starter. Either way, the focus should be on getting playmakers and building the right side of the line so that when we do drop a first time starter into the fire down the road, it will be with weapons and protection.
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I think the focus should be going back to the 4-3 defense and
with that 1st overall pick, find our Mario Williams/Courtney Brown to man that defensive line...too bad Brown had to be injury ... like he was..when healthy he was a good player, too bad he couldn't stay healthy.
or find our Ray Lewis type of intimidating middle linebacker....
If this team drafts a QB...its going to be a long road...maybe we can trade out of the 1st spot for some more picks.
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I like the idea of going back to a 4-3. Good 3-4 teams are loaded with excellent, athletic LBs. Even at our healthiest we have only mediocre LBs. Our strength is the DL. If we have the first pick, it won't be likely that we can trade it, so we have to pick someone with a high probability of being a Pro Bowler for the money we will spend. I feel like one of the safeties (Berry or Mays) would be our best bet, or maybe Suh although admittedly I haven't seen much of Berry and am mostly going on experts' analysis.
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Welcome!
And I like the fact that you caged an opinion with info behind it....that you hadn't seen much of Berry.
Would like more of that from others.
I have seen Berry in 4 games this year. And if I only saw him play Ole Miss I would say no way he could go in the first round. He gets sealed off too easy. Like he doesn't care. At least he did in that game.
In the other 3 games he was a monster. First overall pick type guy.
Overall I'd have no problem picking him with our pick. But I'm not sure he's our defensive leader. And putting 70M into the pocket of a safety that doesn't play hard every down consistently scares me.
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If you think that scares you, Hel, think about this one:
For the kind of money the 1st pick in the draft could cost, some may feel that the only way to substantiate that kind of money is BY selecting a QB or RB, as they may not feel justified in paying that kind of money to a DB or a RT.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Agreed. Can't we win a couple more and get the third or fourth pick? It's unreal what a difference in real dollars that is. And the dropoff in talent is usually negligible.
As an aside.
Loved dropping back in the draft last year. It was unfortunate the payouts we negotiated and the players we took with those picks.
I really hope we get a guy that has that Ozzie type touch. He's batting about .800 on his last 10 first round draft picks.
Sprinkle in the others like Ray Rice who is just awesome, and it really is impressive. Would love to begin that trend for the Browns in 2010.
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Quote:
If you think that scares you, Hel, think about this one:
For the kind of money the 1st pick in the draft could cost, some may feel that the only way to substantiate that kind of money is BY selecting a QB or RB, as they may not feel justified in paying that kind of money to a DB or a RT.
We're taking a QB get used to fact. Either Clausen (hate: his declaration day did it for me), Locker (who I like), Mallet (hate reminds me DA) , or Sam Bradford (who I sorta like)
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Thanks for the input on Berry. The only thing I could argue here is that I have seen this with top NFL prospects before. Once their draft status is set and their team is out of contention, they ease off the gas pedal b/c one false step could lead to going from millions of dollars to never playing football again. I'm not saying that is entirely desirable, but since football players have such a limited career length, its a real concern for them. Anyways, what do you think of Mays? Also, is there anyone in this draft class you would pick to be our defensive leader?
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Quote:
If you think that scares you, Hel, think about this one:
For the kind of money the 1st pick in the draft could cost, some may feel that the only way to substantiate that kind of money is BY selecting a QB or RB, as they may not feel justified in paying thaat kind of money to a DB or a RT.
That is scary. I guess we've got to hope that we get the right czar/GM who wouldn't pick a QB/RB just because this money would be justified. Look at Houston a few years back; they went with Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. They took a ton of flack, but in the end I feel they made the right choice as Bush looks like a good third down back but Williams is a very good DL.
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Quote:
Thanks for the input on Berry. The only thing I could argue here is that I have seen this with top NFL prospects before. Once their draft status is set and their team is out of contention, they ease off the gas pedal b/c one false step could lead to going from millions of dollars to never playing football again. I'm not saying that is entirely desirable, but since football players have such a limited career length, its a real concern for them. Anyways, what do you think of Mays? Also, is there anyone in this draft class you would pick to be our defensive leader?
It's not a great comparison but oh well, here goes.
With Mays I see an elite athlete, great size, great speed, not a great ballplayer. I've seen a three USC games and I've seen him out of position way too many times and USC has been really hurt by it.
In the OSU game he bit hard on a route that went for a TD behind him.
He's kind of like the Courtney Brown of safeties in my mind. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.
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Al Davis will be infatuated with Taylor mays after he has a monster pro day. He's a Davis type of player.
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Glad he came up, as I've been wanting to make a comment but haven't found the right moment..........
Mays, for all the hype and PR, is probably one of the worst tacklers that I've seen.
I can't count how many times this year I've seen him dive without wrapping-up.
He's a physical phenomenon, but he's not close to a finished product.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He's one of the best measurables safeties to come out since our own Eric Turner. Not nearly the player though unfortunately. 
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you are absolutely correct. USC was on national tv many times this year. For all of the talk this guy gets, he did not back it up on the field. But, with Pool getting concussion number 4 or 5, we are in the need of a safety.
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Either you got it kid, or you don't. Right now, you are Charlie Frye 2.
Charlie Frye v2.0
Guess Ohio can't produce any decent NFL caliber QBs lately. At least the ones the Browns draft.
FYI - Frye would be available for a trade from the Raiders... tempting...
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j/c
Just want to remind some of you that one of the best QBs in Browns' history struggled his 1st year as a starter too.
Bernie's 1985 stats
124 comp. 248 atts. 50% 1,578 yds 8 tds 7 ints. 6.4 yds per att.
131.5 yds a game 14 fumbles
Quinn's stats
95 comp. 175 atts. 54.3% 912 yds 5 tds 5 ints. 5.2 yds per att.
130.3 yds per game 3 fumbles
The difference is Bernie had a great running game to rely on and a pretty good defense to help him too. Now i'm not comparing Quinn to Bernie, BQ may never even be a quality QB in the NFL, but before we go drafting another QB early lets build the team up and see what we've got.
#gmstrong
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