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Didn't Holmgren also said he'd be "very interested" in talking about the Browns' job?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I'm still holding out hope for Tom Heckert of the Eagles, but I don't think there's a chance that he ends up our guy.
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It appears it would take something catastrophic for Holmgren not to get the Seattle gig.
Yeah, like him taking the catastrophic gig in Cleveland!  Come on! The dream is still alive!
But seriously, I'd agree that the chances of him joining the Browns are looking slim to none. 
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Didn't Holmgren also said he'd be "very interested" in talking about the Browns' job?
I'm sure if Lerner were to contact him, he'd meet with him. That is, unless Lerner were to wait til Holmgren was a signature and hand-shake away from joining another franchise.
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I don't know why you guys think that. Possibly, I'm being too optimistic.
This article states that Holmgren wants complete control of how the FO operates and how to build the team.
Other articles on Ruskell's resignation have stated how the Seattle FO wants to add someone who is going to 'join them' and not them 'joining the GM' which to me indicates that they want someone to make calls on player personnel, but also someone who will mind their own business outside of that.
I don't think Holmgren is winding up in Seattle...i think they want more of a Heckhart type guy (and again, he's someone accustomed to finding WCO style talent).
Lerner just has to tell Holmgren that if he comes here, the football side of the Browns is his show and he can run it how he wants. If so, then I think our odds might actually be better at this point.
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As for working with coach Jim Mora, Holmgren he would never consider it fair for a head coach to have only one year to show what he can do.
So does that mean that if we land him, he's gonna keep Mangini?
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Didn't Holmgren also said he'd be "very interested" in talking about the Browns' job?
Yes, and he announced on a radio station in Seattle. Why would he announce that he would like to talk to Lerner about the Browns' job on a radio station in Seattle? Well, the answer is quite simple - Leverage. He wanted the Seattle brass to hear it in their airwaves. Really quite simple. Holmgren never wanted this job and will never end up here.
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I think he announced it on a radio station in Seattle because he LIVES in Seattle.
So, the radio station there called him and asked him for an interview...he accepted and he answered their questions. Pretty simple.
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Quote:
Didn't Holmgren also said he'd be "very interested" in talking about the Browns' job?
Someone can correct me if my recollection is wrong here, but I believe the timeline Holmgren's statement regarding the Browns job came BEFORE Ruskell was known to be stepping down.
However, even if that isn't the case, one should never close a door when only one other door is open, which is to say there's no guarantee Holmgren will like what he hears regarding the Seattle gig, which would leave the Browns gig as a better option.
Somewhere in this or the last thread I posted a note where one writer said he doesn't believe Holmgren would be brought back where he would have absolute authority without some sort of checks and balances. If the Seahawks were in fact adamant about that, but the Browns gave him total control, well, that would change things.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You are correct on the timeline.
I think that if all things are equal, with Seattle and the Browns offering him the same thing, he chooses Seattle. If the Browns are offering slightly more money, he chooses Seattle. But if the Browns offer total control (president/czar) and the Seahawks aren't willing to do that, I think we have our guy.
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Yup. I think that'd be our only shot.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think he takes whatever Seattle offers, if anything, and that's the only way he winds up elsewhere is if Seattle rejects him.
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Policy planned to walk away from running the NFL's winningest organization of the '80s and '90s Policy, the NFL's executive of the year in 1994
Toad...great job of spinning with a lot of "fluff" that is absolutely meaningless to the subject.
THE SUBJECT IS...Doing what it takes to hire Mike Holmgren to run the Browns.
Al Lerner set a precedent for the NFL...for the Browns...and for the Lerner family when he used a 10% stake in the Browns, to hire the top executive of the winningest franchise in the NFL, during the 80s and 90s.
Al Lerner was a shrewd businessman but he was not a football guy so he knew he needed someone to run the football side of the Browns, if he won the bid...Al Lerner did win the bid and he gave up 10% of his 100% ownership in the franchise, to hire Carmen Policy to run his team...THAT WAS 1998...
Forward to today...Randy Lerner finds himself in the same situation that his father faced in 1998. Randy needs someone to run the football side of the Browns.
Mike Holmgren is the top executive available but the team that Holmgren used to work for has the inside track to hire Holmgren to run the Seahawks. If the Seahawks don't hire Holmgren, there could be a number of other teams that will make a run to hire Holmgren to run their teams.
Randy Lerner has little to offer Holmgren in the way of a football team. How does Lerner convince the top executive (available), that he should takeover the worst team in the NFL, especially if Holmgren has other offers?
IMO, Randy needs to offer Holmgren something that no other franchise is willing to offer...a minority stake in the Browns. I hope Randy was paying attention to his father in 1998, when Al wanted to hire the best available executive to run his new franchise.
Al Lerner used a 10% stake in the Browns to hire the man he wanted to run his football team...I hope Randy is just as shrewd as his father was.
95% of a winning Browns franchise is more valuable than 100% of today's 1-10 Browns franchise.
Toad, sticking to the subject...if you don't like my idea of how to get Holmgren to sign on with the Browns...you tell us what your idea is, to get Holmgren to sign on with the Browns.
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Quote:
Quote:
Didn't Holmgren also said he'd be "very interested" in talking about the Browns' job?
Someone can correct me if my recollection is wrong here, but I believe the timeline Holmgren's statement regarding the Browns job came BEFORE Ruskell was known to be stepping down.
However, even if that isn't the case, one should never close a door when only one other door is open, which is to say there's no guarantee Holmgren will like what he hears regarding the Seattle gig, which would leave the Browns gig as a better option.
Somewhere in this or the last thread I posted a note where one writer said he doesn't believe Holmgren would be brought back where he would have absolute authority without some sort of checks and balances. If the Seahawks were in fact adamant about that, but the Browns gave him total control, well, that would change things.
PFT has been reporting that for a while....well before it was official they said he wasn't coming back.
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Toad, sticking to the subject...if you don't like my idea of how to get Holmgren to sign on with the Browns...you tell us what your idea is, to get Holmgren to sign on with the Browns.
Ok, finally something that's worth debating.............
I don't think Holmgren is worth giving a portion of ownership in order to acquire to his services. BUT, if you're willing to give the man some 5% stake in the team, then just give him that amount of money in terms of bonuses/incentives tied to success.
In that way, the money allocated to ownership is still given but tied to incentives.
It'd be hard for any President to walk away from a great salary PLUS the chance to earn some $40 million dollars in incentives.
But then again, I don't think Holmgren is worth that, either.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The Browns are 1-10 yet we still have an occasional civil discourse... It's a Christmas miracle!
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It's a Christmas miracle!
I think we also have a Festivus Miracle!
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just please remember that Al didn't GIVE Policy 10%. He allowed Policy to BUY-IN 10% of the franchise.
That means Policy ponied up his own $$$ for that 10%, it was not a gift.
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just please remember that Al didn't GIVE Policy 10%. He allowed Policy to BUY-IN 10% of the franchise.
That means Policy ponied up his own $$$ for that 10%, it was not a gift.
nolog...you need to back your claim up with something other than your word. I have posted stories and links that say Lerner gave Policy 10% after he received the franchise.
I'm not saying you might not be right...just saying I have not read anything to back up your claim that Policy purchased 10% of the team.
Al Lerner did not need anyone's money to cover the cost of his bid.
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toad...so you want Randy Lerner to get into a bidding war with Paul Allen?
Lerner would have to out bid Paul Allen and every other owner that gives Holmgren an opportunity at a better job than managing "the worst" franchise in the NFL, the Browns.
If Lerner can outbid everyone interested in Holmgren, great...
But my idea is to give Holmgren more than money...make him an owner of "the worst franchise" in the NFL, the Browns.
What better incentive could Holmgren have to work hard to turn this franchise from worst to first than have a stake in the team, that is likely to increase dramatically should the Browns become winners again?
Lerner could even set up an incentive scale that starts at a low percentage and increases Holmgren's percentage of ownership if the team reaches certain plateaus.
I like my idea better...jmho...mac
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Mike Holmgren confirms interest in Seahawks opening
Mike Holmgren talked plenty about the Seahawks' situation Friday during his weekly radio show on KJR-AM.
By Danny O'Neil
Seattle Times staff reporter
Mike Holmgren talked plenty about the Seahawks' situation Friday during his weekly radio show on KJR-AM.
He said he'd be interested in talking to Seahawks owner Paul Allen and CEO Tod Leiweke, talked about the offensive line as an area that needs to be evaluated and discussed the delineation of front-office responsibilities across the NFL.
But even though he spent an hour on the air, he didn't reveal much more beyond confirming the fact that he would be interested in discussing the opening that now exists atop Seattle's football operations after Tim Ruskell stepped down Thursday.
"Absolutely, I would like to talk to them," Holmgren said in regards to Leiweke and Allen.
"But I've also said this, that the people and the team has to want to. The situation has to be right, the opening has to be right."
Holmgren, who has drawn interest from the Cleveland Browns, did not specify what position he seeks — football administrator like Bill Parcells in Miami; strictly a general manager in charge of players and personnel; or possibly coach.
But he made it clear he did not see himself above participating in a hiring process, though he joked that there probably isn't much left for the franchise to learn about him.
"I trust I've been thoroughly vetted so far, already, for 10 years," Holmgren said. "But I'll go through whatever is necessary to go through as long as it makes some sense."
Leiweke declined to discuss Holmgren's candidacy on Thursday, and the franchise has hired a search firm to help find a new president.
Coach Jim Mora is expected to be retained after the transition to a new chief of football operations, and Holmgren was asked about Mora, an assistant coach on Holmgren's staff in 2007 and 2008.
"Jim is a fine coach and is a passionate guy," he said. "It wouldn't take too long to realize Jim's a good football coach. The second thing is, I think having one year under your belt and then not being able to continue is kind of unfair."
Holmgren said that he recognized specific mistakes made during his four-year stint at Seahawks general manager. Now, he wouldn't draft for need at a specific position like he did with Jerramy Stevens in 2002, and he wouldn't create a mishmash of scouting departments and systems as happened in 1999 when he tried to integrate new hires he brought from Green Bay with the existing staff.
He would also delegate more, but after 10 years with the Seahawks, Seattle would know pretty much what it's getting.
"I wouldn't change that much," Holmgren said. "I know that kills some people."
Danny O'Neil: 206-464-2364 or doneil@seattletimes.com
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According to this AP sports writer Tom Withers, from an article back in 2002 following Lerner's death, Lerner gave 10% to Policy. Quote:
That changed when he outbid five other groups and was awarded the
Browns expansion franchise for $530 million, at the time the highest
price paid for a sports team. He hired Carmen Policy as team president
and gave Policy, formerly with the San Francisco 49ers (news), 10
percent ownership.
Link
Is it fact? I have no idea but it's certainly stated as fact in this article.
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Here's another article from the NY Times where it's suggesting that Policy is being given his 10%. Link Quote:
Lerner, a former 5 percent owner of the former Browns, said Policy would get 10 percent of the team if his group was chosen by the National Football League.
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There's a little of me thinking that Seattle has the "been there, done that" attitude with Holmgren. Looked into their forums and nobody seemed overly excited to have him back. But some seemed ok with a very defined role.
Still don't know who the answer might be.
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Is it fact? I have no idea but it's certainly stated as fact in this article.
I've just spent the better part of an hour seaching on the web.. There is NO RECORD or REPORT by any reporter, either a financial reporter or a sports reporter that indicates that Randy Lerner ever bought out Carman Policys 10% ownership.
That seems to indicate that he either didn't actually own anything, except on paper.. or Policy still owns 10%.
You would think that if Al Lerner actually did give Carman 10% (approx 53 million value) that there would be some record of Randy buying him out. Hell, if nothing else, the 53 mill would cause things to get reported..
Reports abound that Lerner (randy) owns 100% of the team. So what's that say? If carman actually owned 10%, how did it come to pass that Randy now owns the whole thing... no record of him buying out Policy..
Not sure where that leaves us... So much speculation.
To be perfectly honest., I just got new glasses yesterday and I'm having issues adjusting to them.. I'm not at all sure I didn't miss the buy out... My eyes are killing me right now...
SO please, if anyone is so inclined,, Go looking for anything that says that Randy actually bought carman out.... I didn't find a thing.... perhaps one of you will be luckier...
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Scout.com > Cleveland Report: Policy Sells Back Share of Team Story URL: http://cle.scout.com/2/196879.html Site Staff theOBR.com Nov 3, 2003 Over the weekend, reports indicated that Browns CEO Carmen Policy had sold back his 10% share of the Browns to Randy Lerner. Here's more... According to a report over the weekend by the Lake County News-Herald's Jeff Schudel, Browns CEO Carmen Policy recently sold his 10% share of the Browns to owner Randy Lerner. The transaction gives Lerner full ownership of the team. Schudel quoted "an NFL source" for the story, which states that the transaction was completely, quietly, at the NFL owner's meeting last week in Chicago. No reason for the sell-back was given within the story. Policy recently signed a five-year extension to continue guiding the business side of the Browns operations. While the team has not distinguished itself on the field since its return in 1999, Policy had overseen an aggressive marketing of the team which has incorporated everything from trademarking a Dawg Pound logo to establishing a slew of sponsorship agreements. Schudel suggests that Policy's sale of his shares will not impact the team's operations and that Policy will retain control of the team's business operations. A recent interview with Randy Lerner by the Cleveland Plain Dealer showed an owner with little to no interest of getting more deeply involved with the team's decision-making process or day-to-day management. While no motive has been assigned to the sale of his share, Policy did offer some hints that he was considering leaving the team following Al Lerner's death a little over a year ago. Policy subsequently signed the five-year extension, putting an end to speculation that he might leave. This latest transaction may re-start such talk, but Policy has given no indication in recent months that he has any intention to leave his current role. - AB Copyright © 2009 Scout.com and theOBR.com
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thanks dave,, I couldn't find anything but like I said,, My eyes were (and still are) killing me..
did you see anything that lists the amount he was paid for that 10% share?
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Daman...I was questioning the following comments by nologo...
""just please remember that Al didn't GIVE Policy 10%. He allowed Policy to BUY-IN 10% of the franchise.
That means Policy ponied up his own $$$ for that 10%, it was not a gift. ""
Concerning nologo's comments above, I simply commented that I had not ready anything to back up his claim that Carmen Policy bought the 10% stake from Al Lerner.
It has been my understanding based on several articles I have read, that Al Lerner gave Carmen the 10% if Carmen would take over as President and CEO of the Browns.
All I ask of anyone who disputes my understanding of the transaction between Al Lerner and Policy, IS...post the information and link that shows that I have my facts wrong.
I could be wrong...but I believe I have my facts straight...
As for Policy selling his shares back...I had read that Randy bought them back and the article Dave found lays out the facts...mac
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As for Policy selling his shares back...I had read that Randy bought them back and the article Dave found lays out the facts...mac
that's the appearance... If indeed randy paid Policy something around 53 million, that would satisfy my curosity on the subject... And I'd have to agree that he gave him the percentage. If he paid him 5 or 10 million,, I'd say that doesn't constitute Al giving Policy anything.. except on paper.
I come up with that 53 millon number because Al paid 530 million.. 10%.... etc..
I stand by my feeling on the the other thread no matter what.. it's not smart business.. now or even back in 1999 as you can see how it worked out. Of course I have the benefit of Hindsight.
I also stand by the value of team rises, win or lose.. As proof, I offer just this.. Browns Franchise value 1998.. 530 million.. Browns estimated value today, between 650 to 800 million. (depends on where you get your info)
And before you ask, yes, a winning franchise should be worth more than a losing franchise.. But in the end, anything is only worth the highest bid you get for it...
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I like my idea better...jmho...mac
That's because we have fundamental differences of opinion here.
You're basing your opinion as if it's your team and your money to throw around, in the context that you're willing to do whatever it takes to land Holmgren.
I'm basing my opinion from a practical standpoint, where an owner who already owns 100% of the team isn't about to give up total control of it just to land a guy who isn't a "can't miss" candidate to begin with.
You're willing to do just about anything to land Holmgren. I'm not, especially if it means giving up sole ownership of my business.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"An owner only voluntarily gives up a stake in his company when money is needed. Not when the product sucks. You hire people for that. You don't make them owners."
Are you talking Business or Football Business...quite frankly I think Football business is pretty much anything goes with no precedents needed...There are Leaders and then Followers.
Business??? Sorry but the practice of giving Shares of the company to lure top Executives has been a long time practice. A lot of bantering about this one subject. Why cause a Mac or myself - Thinking out loud claim that could be an option to LURE somebody specifically Parcells.
And then some I SMARTER THAN YOU posters go on and on and on why that just cannot be. Like they know...Like I know...I'm not in the picture...Last I looked I don't own a team and am not being sought after as some Football Czar.
So that means I'm a fan shooting the breeze - for somebody to be so sure that it is just not a possibility of "THOUGHT" is somebody just too full of themselves. 
I have not seen one rational thought and counter thought on why simply giving a 5% share with conditional PRE-NUPT type agreements to get somebody that is "GOLD" in this situation - whoever that may be. Sorry the "YOU CAN'T DO THAT" clause is not strong enough to dissuade me from that thought process.
There is no SIDES HERE btw...it just shooting the Breeze and then somebody as if they have some smoking gun on the subject suggests that the thought is not possible...when anything is indeed possible... Probable??? I don't know. Good Business move? 95% of X > 100% of Y I'd say it is if the results are forth coming.
If not there is that buy out clause...gosh knows its not like Randy hasn't spent about 50mil in unsuccesful builders of this team as it is!
JMHO as always
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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I SMARTER THAN YOU
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
In all seriousness, implementing restricted securites compensation plans for key executives is part of what I do for a living.
These packages (invariably from my experience) are given in organizations with distributed ownership be it private or public. Once one person has a complete share control of a company that isn't in financial trouble, they don't give up that catbird seat for anything.
If Randy is dumb enough to break up his full ownership share of a private, billion dollar organization, then god help us all. Judging from what I've seen from Junior thus far I may have egg on my face in a month or two! 
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Quote:
Daman...I was questioning the following comments by nologo...
""just please remember that Al didn't GIVE Policy 10%. He allowed Policy to BUY-IN 10% of the franchise.
That means Policy ponied up his own $$$ for that 10%, it was not a gift. ""
Concerning nologo's comments above, I simply commented that I had not ready anything to back up his claim that Carmen Policy bought the 10% stake from Al Lerner.
in the CNNSI story that I posted it was mentioned that Policy was allowed to attain 10% of his partnership group and that Jerry Jones and others were wondering if he would make the same FO decisions as he did wth the 49ers now that he is helping foot the bill.
I read it as Policy had to buy-in....otherwise, he is not footing the bill.
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I've been questioning if it was as simple as Lerner giving Policy a piece of the pie..
It really makes no sense. in come article I read,, I think it was the one that Mac posted here, Policy was making 1.5 million a year with the niners.
Now if you look at it, 53 million in ownership for what turned out to be 5 years of service + a salary,, over 10 million a year.. that's a helluva pay increase...
that's why, even though I can't prove it, I think that Carman didn't get his piece for free.. but instead, was required to buy in..
but I can't prove it.. All I do know for sure is that Al Lerner wasn't an idiot,,, and giving up 53 million when you clearly don't have to,,, well, let's just say that's idiotic....
It's just my Opinion, but if that's what Randy has to do to get Holmgren,, I wouldn't want him to do it.. I wouldn't feel negative at all about him if he passed on holmgren if those are the terms required to get him..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I have absolutely lost all faith in our ability to get Holmgreen. My fear is we are going to have go with another Savage, Kokinis..etc type guy.
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Quote:
I have absolutely lost all faith in our ability to get Holmgreen. My fear is we are going to have go with another Savage, Kokinis..etc type guy.
Wht stop there? I'm losing faith that this organization has the capability to make ANY correct decisions!
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That has always been my fear as well...........that we end up with another wonder kid scouting guru.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Legend
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Quote:
I have absolutely lost all faith in our ability to get Holmgreen. My fear is we are going to have go with another Savage, Kokinis..etc type guy.
If that happens...if Lerner is forced to fall back to just getting someone willing to take the job...someone who is likely inexperienced with little creditability around the NFL...this franchise will continue to struggle as a bottom dweller, IMO.
That is why I believe it is so critical for Lerner to get a top manager such as Holmgren, to take over the team for him. Someone who gives this franchise instant creditability when it comes to hiring a new GM and HC.
Who Lerner hires as his Czar, will have an impact down the line from Czar to GM to HC to assistant coaches to the free agent players.
The most critical hire Lerner makes, will be who he gets to run his franchise.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Just clicking Geez,, you guys sound like a bunch of old women,, For cryin out loud,, so what if he makes another mistake... That only means he'll get another chance to do it right in a few years.... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Daman...I was questioning the following comments by nologo...
""just please remember that Al didn't GIVE Policy 10%. He allowed Policy to BUY-IN 10% of the franchise.
That means Policy ponied up his own $$$ for that 10%, it was not a gift. ""
Concerning nologo's comments above, I simply commented that I had not ready anything to back up his claim that Carmen Policy bought the 10% stake from Al Lerner.
in the CNNSI story that I posted it was mentioned that Policy was allowed to attain 10% of his partnership group and that Jerry Jones and others were wondering if he would make the same FO decisions as he did wth the 49ers now that he is helping foot the bill.
I read it as Policy had to buy-in....otherwise, he is not footing the bill.
nologo...I looked at the article you posted web page again, and I can't find the language you claim is in the article...specifically, that Policy "was allowed to attain 10% of his partnership group"
The article does say Al Lerner offered to make Policy "the Cleveland president and a 10% owner"...it's on page 1, near the bottom of the 3rd paragraph from the bottom.
The part about Jerry Jones and other's wondering about Policy footing the bills...that is in the last paragraph on page 3 of the article.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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